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#1
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RSVP (and pinatas)
"Banty" wrote in message ... If I opt out, how would my address be gotten? (Assuming someone sticks with the roster.) The old backpack mail or have kid give it directly to your child route. I haven't seen a class list be all so cutomized as address only, address and phone only, address and email only. IME they just out. At our school, whatever info the parents opt-in is used, nothing else. Some people give only phone, some only address, some only email, etc. I am not so vehemently opposed to not having a phone list as you are to having them. That's life, so we go with it. It would be nice to have one at DD's school, though. If they had one, I'd sign up right away. Consider the reasons they don't. Because of the mere chance of offending those few who are vehemently opposed (what the director said), which is too bad. It's not like she knew anyone was opposed, she didn't ask. She just thought someone out there might be opposed. Even one person opposing was enough. We have to cater to that one person. It's not even one person, it's an imaginary person, because she really doesn't know. Now, if she had it up for a vote, then I could understand. Consider that possibly that was her way of telling you she understood the problem and had used her judgement or was following the judgement of the administration as a whole. Maybe there *had* been problems, but she didn't want to detail it to you (or anyone) or have field those "tell me who!" questions. And look - you hardly are receptive to my objections - so maybe she's right in not getting into it. Banty |
#2
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RSVP (and pinatas)
"Banty" wrote in message ... Because of the mere chance of offending those few who are vehemently opposed (what the director said), which is too bad. It's not like she knew anyone was opposed, she didn't ask. She just thought someone out there might be opposed. Even one person opposing was enough. We have to cater to that one person. It's not even one person, it's an imaginary person, because she really doesn't know. Now, if she had it up for a vote, then I could understand. Consider that possibly that was her way of telling you she understood the problem and had used her judgement or was following the judgement of the administration as a whole. Maybe there *had* been problems, but she didn't want to detail it to you (or anyone) or have field those "tell me who!" questions. And look - you hardly are receptive to my objections - so maybe she's right in not getting into it. I object to you, but I am not upset with you, just like I object with her; but I left the topic alone, because such is life. I did not ask "tell me who." I merely inquired if there were objections. She did not know of any. You, OTOH, seem to be flaming mad about the whole subject. Don't blame me for being upset when it is you who are. |
#3
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RSVP (and pinatas)
In article , toypup says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... Because of the mere chance of offending those few who are vehemently opposed (what the director said), which is too bad. It's not like she knew anyone was opposed, she didn't ask. She just thought someone out there might be opposed. Even one person opposing was enough. We have to cater to that one person. It's not even one person, it's an imaginary person, because she really doesn't know. Now, if she had it up for a vote, then I could understand. Consider that possibly that was her way of telling you she understood the problem and had used her judgement or was following the judgement of the administration as a whole. Maybe there *had* been problems, but she didn't want to detail it to you (or anyone) or have field those "tell me who!" questions. And look - you hardly are receptive to my objections - so maybe she's right in not getting into it. I object to you, but I am not upset with you, just like I object with her; but I left the topic alone, because such is life. I think you object to my objections about the roster lists, not with me (just like I have no objection whatever to Toypup, quite the opposite). I did not ask "tell me who." I merely inquired if there were objections. She did not know of any. You, OTOH, seem to be flaming mad about the whole subject. Don't blame me for being upset when it is you who are. ?? I didn't mean that *you* asked "tell me who". It's that an adminstrator or teacher needs to field these questions, and this may come up with some frequency, so she answers in a way to put the subject to bed without causing hard feelings, divulging too much, or leaving herself open to certain questions. There *are* people who would press for the "who", not that it would be you. And since we've been going back and forth, how is it *I'm* somehow the upset evul meanie? Consider that your position in this isn't all so quite the obviously reasonable position you think it to be, such that anyone questioning it with any strength would have to be more "upset" than you. Banty |
#4
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RSVP (and pinatas)
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , toypup says... I object to you, but I am not upset with you, just like I object with her; but I left the topic alone, because such is life. I think you object to my objections about the roster lists, not with me (just like I have no objection whatever to Toypup, quite the opposite). Yes. I object to your objections. You are right. And since we've been going back and forth, how is it *I'm* somehow the upset evul meanie? Consider that your position in this isn't all so quite the obviously reasonable position you think it to be, such that anyone questioning it with any strength would have to be more "upset" than you. It comes across to me that you are upset about this whole deal meaning that it bothers you more than it bothers me. I did not say you are an evul meanie. You are definitely more vehement. I don't care quite as much. I much prefer lists, but if there are not lists, like at DD's school, I can live with that. Why I'm debating here is because I don't understand. I don't understand why people don't want opt-in lists because they are completely voluntary. You explained how you join them under duress because if you don't, your kid misses out on social opportunities, opportunities you object to anyway. I explained that your child wouldn't really miss out on any opportunities except that you wouldn't get RSVP's and you still haven't addressed that. What exactly is your duress? What are you missing out of by not being on a list which you state is mostly being used for birthdays? You state that the lists change the way people interact. I'd say DS's school, which does have lists, is a more tightly knit community than DD's school, which doesn't have lists. Her school is also much, much smaller. Not having a list does not facilitate any closer more personal communication. I'd say not having a list does the opposite and limits social interactions. Your wish that people go out of their way to make contact just doesn't work IRL. Maybe you might be willing to do it, but most people just leave it alone. So, in the context of the larger community and the way they interact, lists help not hinder. |
#5
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RSVP (and pinatas)
"toypup" wrote in message ... Why I'm debating here is because I don't understand. I don't understand why people don't want opt-in lists because they are completely voluntary. You explained how you join them under duress because if you don't, your kid misses out on social opportunities, opportunities you object to anyway. I explained that your child wouldn't really miss out on any opportunities except that you wouldn't get RSVP's and you still haven't addressed that. I mean you won't get RSVP phone calls. |
#6
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RSVP (and pinatas)
In article , toypup says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , toypup says... I object to you, but I am not upset with you, just like I object with her; but I left the topic alone, because such is life. I think you object to my objections about the roster lists, not with me (just like I have no objection whatever to Toypup, quite the opposite). Yes. I object to your objections. You are right. And since we've been going back and forth, how is it *I'm* somehow the upset evul meanie? Consider that your position in this isn't all so quite the obviously reasonable position you think it to be, such that anyone questioning it with any strength would have to be more "upset" than you. It comes across to me that you are upset about this whole deal meaning that it bothers you more than it bothers me. I did not say you are an evul meanie. You are definitely more vehement. I don't care quite as much. I much prefer lists, but if there are not lists, like at DD's school, I can live with that. Why I'm debating here is because I don't understand. I don't understand why people don't want opt-in lists because they are completely voluntary. You explained how you join them under duress because if you don't, your kid misses out on social opportunities, opportunities you object to anyway. I explained that your child wouldn't really miss out on any opportunities except that you wouldn't get RSVP's and you still haven't addressed that. What exactly is your duress? What are you missing out of by not being on a list which you state is mostly being used for birthdays? It's simply not the case, and I've explained before. They come to be relied on for *any* kind of gathering, not just the cattle-call parties. If teachers stuff cubbyholes for all-class parties per their policies, and I RSVP, that doesn't affect me at all since I RSVP. It's that, given this handy-dandy apprently fairly complete list, it gets used for other things. Consider that transfer-ins are in the same position with respect to an existing list. Not being on it, they're comparitevly invisible. And you haven't addressed any of that. You state that the lists change the way people interact. I'd say DS's school, which does have lists, is a more tightly knit community than DD's school, which doesn't have lists. Her school is also much, much smaller. Not having a list does not facilitate any closer more personal communication. I'd say not having a list does the opposite and limits social interactions. Your wish that people go out of their way to make contact just doesn't work IRL. Maybe you might be willing to do it, but most people just leave it alone. So, in the context of the larger community and the way they interact, lists help not hinder. I'm not arguing that having a list makes for *better* communication, their absense doesn't get in the way of the truly personal communication. It just facilitates the facile contact (like chasing after RSVP's) and opens people up to who-knows-what. You can't say lists facilitate community and communication, AND say that those who opt off or transfer in later aren't losing out. So which is it? And what do you even mean by "close-knit". So I don't think dropping kids off at a mega party a community makes. Again - all this so people can make party lists easier. It's not the thing to put on others, be it a school administrator or teacher, or parent class helper, to put that together for you. Knock yourself out, have any kind of gathering you want. It's just not something the world should bend around for you. Banty |
#7
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RSVP (and pinatas)
"Banty" wrote in message ... It's simply not the case, and I've explained before. They come to be relied on for *any* kind of gathering, not just the cattle-call parties. If teachers stuff cubbyholes for all-class parties per their policies, and I RSVP, that doesn't affect me at all since I RSVP. It's that, given this handy-dandy apprently fairly complete list, it gets used for other things. Consider that transfer-ins are in the same position with respect to an existing list. Not being on it, they're comparitevly invisible. And you haven't addressed any of that. Okay, I will. DS goes to a school that uses lists, so I am familiar with the land of lists. I completely disagree that the lists are relied on as the sole source of everything. The teachers still stuff cubbyholes. We still get flyers for everything. Birthday invites still go out by card. They do get relied on by room mom, who uses them to get her volunteers; but then anyone not on that list would just tell room mom she wants to be contacted privately, I suppose. The only thing I've seen them used for by other moms is truly just RSVP's and maybe an occasional I need your help phone call. I'm not arguing that having a list makes for *better* communication, their absense doesn't get in the way of the truly personal communication. It just facilitates the facile contact (like chasing after RSVP's) and opens people up to who-knows-what. But I say I've also lived in the land of no lists, and I don't think it facilitates any such thing. You can't say lists facilitate community and communication, AND say that those who opt off or transfer in later aren't losing out. I do think it facilitates community and communication overall. I think its existence makes people feel like a community. It doesn't shut any single person out who wants to be a part of that community but not on the list. It makes the school as a whole feel like a community. No one is going to go to the list and say, "Hey, you're not on the list so I'm not going to talk to you." So which is it? And what do you even mean by "close-knit". Everyone knows each other. We're comfortable talking to each other. We feel more friendly towards each other. We can call each other for help and can help each other out. Our kids play together and we are friends. At DD's school, no one knows anyone. Again - all this so people can make party lists easier. If that's it, then it's not true that it gets to be relied on for any kind of gathering not just parties per your argument above. Which is it? Just parties or everything else? It's not the thing to put on others, be it a school administrator or teacher, or parent class helper, to put that together for you. Knock yourself out, have any kind of gathering you want. It's just not something the world should bend around for you. No one is bending. It is *voluntary*, with just the need of the administration to give permission. How is anyone bending? The administration would not even need to put any effort into it. The parents would not even have to participate, if they don't want. |
#8
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RSVP (and pinatas)
toypup wrote:
I do think it facilitates community and communication overall. I think its existence makes people feel like a community. It doesn't shut any single person out who wants to be a part of that community but not on the list. It makes the school as a whole feel like a community. I don't think so at all. In spite of the fact that my son's teacher put out this list, I've only met the other parents on it incidentally and on occasion. My daughter's fifth grade teacher put out NO such list (the closest he came was sending home a tree-calling list the night before a major field trip that looked like it may be canceled for weather, with kids' names and phone numbers only), and I have spent much more time with those parents. Largely because of my daughter's involvement in basketball. Michelle Flutist |
#9
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RSVP (and pinatas)
In article , Michelle J. Haines says...
toypup wrote: I do think it facilitates community and communication overall. I think its existence makes people feel like a community. It doesn't shut any single person out who wants to be a part of that community but not on the list. It makes the school as a whole feel like a community. I don't think so at all. In spite of the fact that my son's teacher put out this list, I've only met the other parents on it incidentally and on occasion. My daughter's fifth grade teacher put out NO such list (the closest he came was sending home a tree-calling list the night before a major field trip that looked like it may be canceled for weather, with kids' names and phone numbers only), and I have spent much more time with those parents. Largely because of my daughter's involvement in basketball. Right - actually having a common endeavor makes community, not having everyone's info floating about. Scouts is what provided much of my connection to community, that plus work (I work for a big employer around here) and the immediate neighborhood. The Montessori school went from having a distributed roster list to (I think later) *not* having a list, because it was actually hurting community in that it was really highlighting a cultural difference between the JW families and others as far as birthday celebrations. When I was there they had a list, and, really, if there was one thing they could have done to foster community, it woudl have been to move the Thursday 1pm parent board meetings to an evening, or at least switching off between a daytime and an evening time. I never called or got called from the list at the Montessori - the connections I made were with the other after school moms and dads at pickup. Banty |
#10
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RSVP (and pinatas)
"Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message ... toypup wrote: I do think it facilitates community and communication overall. I think its existence makes people feel like a community. It doesn't shut any single person out who wants to be a part of that community but not on the list. It makes the school as a whole feel like a community. I don't think so at all. In spite of the fact that my son's teacher put out this list, I've only met the other parents on it incidentally and on occasion. My daughter's fifth grade teacher put out NO such list (the closest he came was sending home a tree-calling list the night before a major field trip that looked like it may be canceled for weather, with kids' names and phone numbers only), and I have spent much more time with those parents. Largely because of my daughter's involvement in basketball. Do you think the existence of the list contribute to the lack of communication amongst the parents? Is the list for your son's class used in lieu of other methods of contact? Is anyone on the outs because they are not on the list? In your experience, do you feel the absence or existence of a list has an effect on parent communication and the sense of community or do you think that neither option affects it at all? |
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