Nine year old daughter displays temper

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:10:14 +1000, Chookie wrote:

In article .com,
Beliavsky wrote:

Well, I do smack my child. But I would certainly not be expecting to do it
when he's nine.

The ultimate privilege is her living with her family. I live in a
duplex, and when repeated scoldings and time-outs have not worked with
my 4yo, (usually involving his treatment of his 2yo brother), I have
on occasion put him in the corridor between the two units and closed
the door. A minute later, he is subdued.

Be very, very careful about this one. I have heard of families where part of
the repertoire is to ask the child whether they want to keep living with the
family -- but eventually, the child will call your bluff. Then what will you
do?

My mom locked my brother out of the house when he was maybe 4 yo. He was
so upset thinking she really was getting rid of him that he got a toy and
threw it at the window. He broke the window trying to get back inside the
house and boy was he in trouble then. In a child's mind, being locked out
is taken very literally. He has no idea he will when or if he will be let
back in.

My mom always told us to do X so she would love us or stop X or she won't
love us anymore. When DS was 2 yo and crying, she told him to stop crying
or she won't love him anymore. That did it for me.

It doesn't always stop there. It sets a precedent and escalates as its
effect starts to wear thin. My mom eventually disowned all of us at one
time or another. After we've moved out, she would give us silent
treatments that would last for months or years.

Toypup wrote:
My mom locked my brother out of the house when he was maybe 4 yo. He was
so upset thinking she really was getting rid of him that he got a toy and
threw it at the window. He broke the window trying to get back inside the
house and boy was he in trouble then. In a child's mind, being locked out
is taken very literally. He has no idea he will when or if he will be let
back in.

Mary responds: Funny story. My little brother had a really bad day
when he was 3 or 4 (way back in the late 60's). He put kleenex in the
toaster, and later the same morning, went into the basement and shoved
a toy bow and arrow into the gas furnace burner. My mother was at her
wits end with him, so she put him outside and told him to stay out of
her sight. My brother marched back and forth in front of the house
wailing for a while - stopping every now and then to see if anyone was
coming. Then he vanished - resulting in a panicked search through the
neighbourhood. We finally found him a block away in the hallway of a
townhouse complex, surrounded by concerned residents - he'd told him
his mother had thrown him out and he had nowhere to go (i.e. in his
little brain, he'd been disowned, tossed out permanently etc.). The
point is - kids DO take this stuff literally.

"don" wrote in message
ups.com...
Nine year daughter old screams

My nine year old daughter, I am told, is excellently behaved in
school.
When she comes home, however, she displays a streak of temper and
intolerance toward her younger sisters (ages seven and four) that
frustrates me. If they do something that she considers unfair, but
that I consider minor and typical of young girls (example: play with
her toy without asking and leave it on the floor), she may start to
scream at the top of her lungs at them (particularly at the seven year
old) and sometimes hit as well.

If I intervene and calmly-but-firmly express displeasure with her
behavoour, she directs her screaming at me (or at my wife), and may
scream "leave me alone" or may even try to punch me. Threatening and
following through on punishments (example: no Internet today unless
you stop now) does not seem to work. Lately, after a threat on my
part in the middle of one of her outbursts, she sometimes yells "OK,
take away all my privledges".

What do I do with a bright girl who seems to be able to behave well
outside the house, but who, several times a day, become a small terror
at home?


Well first I would start by respecting her desire to have her belongings
respected. Get a family meeting together in which you discuss how respectful
sharing will be done. And what the consequences of failing to abide by the
agreed upon respectful sharing solution. You are not really doing the other
kids any favors by not teaching them to respect other people's belongings.

Step B is to start teaching her some skills for handling frustration. Two
part process involves explaining thather expression of frustration is so
difficult on other family members that she will be removed (or you will
remove yourselves whcih is better if you can manage it) if she does it. Part
two involves brainstorming together how to handle frustration and how you
can help remind her of her new skills when her feelings are getting the
better of her self control.

Good luck!

"Beliavsky" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Aug 23, 2:16 pm, don wrote:
Nine year daughter old screams

My nine year old daughter, I am told, is excellently behaved in
school.
When she comes home, however, she displays a streak of temper and
intolerance toward her younger sisters (ages seven and four) that
frustrates me. If they do something that she considers unfair, but
that I consider minor and typical of young girls (example: play with
her toy without asking and leave it on the floor), she may start to
scream at the top of her lungs at them (particularly at the seven year
old) and sometimes hit as well.

If I intervene and calmly-but-firmly express displeasure with her
behavoour, she directs her screaming at me (or at my wife), and may
scream "leave me alone" or may even try to punch me. Threatening and
following through on punishments (example: no Internet today unless
you stop now) does not seem to work.

A child who even thinks about punching a parent is overdue for a
spanking. That would be the obvious answer 50 years ago, and I doubt
that Americans are doing a better job of rearing well-behaved children
today.

Lately, after a threat on my
part in the middle of one of her outbursts, she sometimes yells "OK,
take away all my privledges".

The ultimate privilege is her living with her family. I live in a
duplex, and when repeated scoldings and time-outs have not worked with
my 4yo, (usually involving his treatment of his 2yo brother), I have
on occasion put him in the corridor between the two units and closed
the door. A minute later, he is subdued. Children ought to be a little
afraid of their parents, especially their fathers. My parents were and
are great, but I knew they were boss.


Oh God! I was afraid of my mother. You bet your sweet bippy I lied in order
to get out of things rather than come to her for help when teenage years!
You reap what you sow.

http://www.amazon.com/Discipline-Lif...7985122&sr=8-1

In article XFGzi.14$Ah3.8@trndny04, Stephanie says...


"Beliavsky" wrote in message
roups.com...
On Aug 23, 2:16 pm, don wrote:
Nine year daughter old screams

My nine year old daughter, I am told, is excellently behaved in
school.
When she comes home, however, she displays a streak of temper and
intolerance toward her younger sisters (ages seven and four) that
frustrates me. If they do something that she considers unfair, but
that I consider minor and typical of young girls (example: play with
her toy without asking and leave it on the floor), she may start to
scream at the top of her lungs at them (particularly at the seven year
old) and sometimes hit as well.

If I intervene and calmly-but-firmly express displeasure with her
behavoour, she directs her screaming at me (or at my wife), and may
scream "leave me alone" or may even try to punch me. Threatening and
following through on punishments (example: no Internet today unless
you stop now) does not seem to work.

A child who even thinks about punching a parent is overdue for a
spanking. That would be the obvious answer 50 years ago, and I doubt
that Americans are doing a better job of rearing well-behaved children
today.

Lately, after a threat on my
part in the middle of one of her outbursts, she sometimes yells "OK,
take away all my privledges".

The ultimate privilege is her living with her family. I live in a
duplex, and when repeated scoldings and time-outs have not worked with
my 4yo, (usually involving his treatment of his 2yo brother), I have
on occasion put him in the corridor between the two units and closed
the door. A minute later, he is subdued. Children ought to be a little
afraid of their parents, especially their fathers. My parents were and
are great, but I knew they were boss.


Oh God! I was afraid of my mother. You bet your sweet bippy I lied in order
to get out of things rather than come to her for help when teenage years!
You reap what you sow.


Yep. Rule by fear is a Bad Idea in most cases. Doesn't even work for dictators
in the long run.

Banty

In article iEGzi.629$XV2.593@trndny09, Stephanie says...


"don" wrote in message
oups.com...
Nine year daughter old screams

My nine year old daughter, I am told, is excellently behaved in
school.
When she comes home, however, she displays a streak of temper and
intolerance toward her younger sisters (ages seven and four) that
frustrates me. If they do something that she considers unfair, but
that I consider minor and typical of young girls (example: play with
her toy without asking and leave it on the floor), she may start to
scream at the top of her lungs at them (particularly at the seven year
old) and sometimes hit as well.

If I intervene and calmly-but-firmly express displeasure with her
behavoour, she directs her screaming at me (or at my wife), and may
scream "leave me alone" or may even try to punch me. Threatening and
following through on punishments (example: no Internet today unless
you stop now) does not seem to work. Lately, after a threat on my
part in the middle of one of her outbursts, she sometimes yells "OK,
take away all my privledges".

What do I do with a bright girl who seems to be able to behave well
outside the house, but who, several times a day, become a small terror
at home?


Well first I would start by respecting her desire to have her belongings
respected. Get a family meeting together in which you discuss how respectful
sharing will be done. And what the consequences of failing to abide by the
agreed upon respectful sharing solution. You are not really doing the other
kids any favors by not teaching them to respect other people's belongings.

Step B is to start teaching her some skills for handling frustration. Two
part process involves explaining thather expression of frustration is so
difficult on other family members that she will be removed (or you will
remove yourselves whcih is better if you can manage it) if she does it. Part
two involves brainstorming together how to handle frustration and how you
can help remind her of her new skills when her feelings are getting the
better of her self control.

But the thing that strikes me about the description of the situation is - she
apparently does have those skills, and uses them outside the home. At school,
notably.

Which makes me think that this really is more about what's going on at home.
Sure, as Ericka mentioned, she may be pouring it out at school and falling apart
at home. But I think it's more likely she's long abandoned her skills at home
in the face of the whole situation with all the members of her family. We all
have our limits. She's at wit's end.

So to sit her down with a "now that we've taken care of *that*" (referring to
the problems with her stuff getting disrespected), "YOU have to fix yourself
too" might be really unfair. Yeah, there's hardly ever only one party that's
purely responsible for a problem. But, if she's negotiating her emotions
successfully away from home, some positive changes at home may be the really all
that's needed.

Banty

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article iEGzi.629$XV2.593@trndny09, Stephanie says...


"don" wrote in message
roups.com...
Nine year daughter old screams

My nine year old daughter, I am told, is excellently behaved in
school.
When she comes home, however, she displays a streak of temper and
intolerance toward her younger sisters (ages seven and four) that
frustrates me. If they do something that she considers unfair, but
that I consider minor and typical of young girls (example: play with
her toy without asking and leave it on the floor), she may start to
scream at the top of her lungs at them (particularly at the seven year
old) and sometimes hit as well.

If I intervene and calmly-but-firmly express displeasure with her
behavoour, she directs her screaming at me (or at my wife), and may
scream "leave me alone" or may even try to punch me. Threatening and
following through on punishments (example: no Internet today unless
you stop now) does not seem to work. Lately, after a threat on my
part in the middle of one of her outbursts, she sometimes yells "OK,
take away all my privledges".

What do I do with a bright girl who seems to be able to behave well
outside the house, but who, several times a day, become a small terror
at home?


Well first I would start by respecting her desire to have her belongings
respected. Get a family meeting together in which you discuss how
respectful
sharing will be done. And what the consequences of failing to abide by the
agreed upon respectful sharing solution. You are not really doing the
other
kids any favors by not teaching them to respect other people's belongings.

Step B is to start teaching her some skills for handling frustration. Two
part process involves explaining thather expression of frustration is so
difficult on other family members that she will be removed (or you will
remove yourselves whcih is better if you can manage it) if she does it.
Part
two involves brainstorming together how to handle frustration and how you
can help remind her of her new skills when her feelings are getting the
better of her self control.

But the thing that strikes me about the description of the situation is -
she
apparently does have those skills, and uses them outside the home. At
school,
notably.

Which makes me think that this really is more about what's going on at
home.
Sure, as Ericka mentioned, she may be pouring it out at school and falling
apart
at home. But I think it's more likely she's long abandoned her skills at
home
in the face of the whole situation with all the members of her family. We
all
have our limits. She's at wit's end.

So to sit her down with a "now that we've taken care of *that*" (referring
to
the problems with her stuff getting disrespected), "YOU have to fix
yourself
too" might be really unfair. Yeah, there's hardly ever only one party
that's
purely responsible for a problem. But, if she's negotiating her emotions
successfully away from home, some positive changes at home may be the
really all
that's needed.

Banty


Maybe. And if it does, then great. But IMO if she is throwing temper
tantrums, inappropriately expressing frustration, over this, she will
express that way period. If it persists as an issue, there is no reason not
to address it head on. Screaming and punching are not healthy ways to
express an emotion.