Best friends (a long vent)

#1 (age 7 1/2yo)has a close best friend. She'd been best friends with her
since they were 4yo. They got put in separate forms when they went to
school, so they're not together as much as they could be.
As the time has gone on, #1 is basically friendly with most of the girls in
her form, but there's a group of girls she is very friendly with in the
other form.
I think BF mum thinks that #1 hangs onto the group because they're all from
the other form, but, I think, from the other girl's parent's pov they see
her as being at least as friendly to them as bf. Certainly one of them she
made friends with before she started new this year at the school. Other
parents have commented how nice she is and how they never hear from their
daughters anything that she's done which is nasty.
Now I have noticed that bf seems to be very jealous of #1 having other
friends. Things like when we invited one to our house bf told #1 that this
girl coudn't come because her mummy was going to invite her that day and her
mummy would make sure that she went to bf's house not #1's.
Bf is very "one up" . If #1's doing something fun, then bf did it twice last
week. Now #1 usually isn't bothered about this. She'll tell me how funny it
is that she's doing it because bf has already do it. Often (from an adult
mind) I can immediately tell that bf is making it up, but #1 is very loyal
and won't hear a thing against any of her friends even when they've upset
her, so most of the time I just say "oh that's nice" or something.
Occasionally I get particularly irritated and I say to bf's mum "oh I hear
bf is doing ***" and she'll usually say "oh no she's not", but if I follow
it up with "she said to me tha ***t" (I don't do it unless it's been said in
my presence so #1 isn't accused of making it up) and bf's mum usually then
covers it: "oh she must have meant ***"
She has made up stories about #1 doing nasty stuff, and yes, I am sure it's
made up, as I have had various teachers and other children tell me that it's
made up, as well as observing one or two times.

When they first got put in different forms then bf's mum said that we'd have
to make sure they did things together out of school so they could see each
other. However she seems to go out of her way not only to make sure that
they're not together, and, not only that but that she tries to make sure
that the rest of the friends are all with bf.

My real vent is brownies. (I think it's girl scouts or something in US).
They got to the end of Rainbows age and the leader offered me, bf and
another girl who is in bf's form, but not particularly friendly with either,
a choice of the 3 local packs. I said that I didn't mind as long as #1 had
someone she knew in it.
I made slight "could they go together" noises at bf's mum, and she wouldn't
say what she was thinking. She then kept asking me which #1 was going to,
and once I'd said that we'd chosen one (#1 knows the leader) she said that
she was "really sorry but she was choosing one in the next district along".
Now my feeling was that if she was "really sorry" she'd have come and asked
me if #1 would like to try the same as hers, but I though maybe she'd asked
and found there was only one space.
Then when they started at the beginning of the term, I discovered that she'd
persuaded two girls from #1's form to go to that pack either. (one she's
friendly with the mother, the other she has no contact with at all, but
neither is friendly with bf).
Nut the other girl had chosen to go to #1's pack. I was really pleased about
this and we were sharing lifts etc, and #1 was getting on well with her. I
knew that bf was saying "our brownies is better than yours" and everything
#1 said they were doing they'd done it last week as it were.
Then the mother of this girl came to me and very embarrassed said that her
daughter was leaving that brownies because she was "too tired". Then said
that she was going to try a different brownies on a different night. Low and
behold, it's bf's pack. Now as it's a different district it wasn't given as
an option for us, so the only way this girl knew about it was through bf.
Then #1 tells me last night that bf says that her mum told this other girl
that she should change her to the other pack so they can have a nice group
from school.

I'm really miffed because I haven't been approached at all. She really does
seem to have this thing about removing friends from round #1. I'm no good on
confrontation, and she's much more dominant than me, so I know that I'd get
the worst of it, but I'm really upset for #1. She seems to always be the one
on her own, and she does find it hard making friends, which I think is one
of the reasons she's not found a friend in her own form.
Sorry about the vent. I feel better for writing it down, anyway.
Debbie

In article , Welches says...

#1 (age 7 1/2yo)has a close best friend. She'd been best friends with her
since they were 4yo. They got put in separate forms when they went to
school, so they're not together as much as they could be.
As the time has gone on, #1 is basically friendly with most of the girls in
her form, but there's a group of girls she is very friendly with in the
other form.
I think BF mum thinks that #1 hangs onto the group because they're all from
the other form, but, I think, from the other girl's parent's pov they see
her as being at least as friendly to them as bf. Certainly one of them she
made friends with before she started new this year at the school. Other
parents have commented how nice she is and how they never hear from their
daughters anything that she's done which is nasty.
Now I have noticed that bf seems to be very jealous of #1 having other
friends. Things like when we invited one to our house bf told #1 that this
girl coudn't come because her mummy was going to invite her that day and her
mummy would make sure that she went to bf's house not #1's.
Bf is very "one up" . If #1's doing something fun, then bf did it twice last
week. Now #1 usually isn't bothered about this. She'll tell me how funny it
is that she's doing it because bf has already do it. Often (from an adult
mind) I can immediately tell that bf is making it up, but #1 is very loyal
and won't hear a thing against any of her friends even when they've upset
her, so most of the time I just say "oh that's nice" or something.
Occasionally I get particularly irritated and I say to bf's mum "oh I hear
bf is doing ***" and she'll usually say "oh no she's not", but if I follow
it up with "she said to me tha ***t" (I don't do it unless it's been said in
my presence so #1 isn't accused of making it up) and bf's mum usually then
covers it: "oh she must have meant ***"
She has made up stories about #1 doing nasty stuff, and yes, I am sure it's
made up, as I have had various teachers and other children tell me that it's
made up, as well as observing one or two times.

When they first got put in different forms then bf's mum said that we'd have
to make sure they did things together out of school so they could see each
other. However she seems to go out of her way not only to make sure that
they're not together, and, not only that but that she tries to make sure
that the rest of the friends are all with bf.

My real vent is brownies. (I think it's girl scouts or something in US).
They got to the end of Rainbows age and the leader offered me, bf and
another girl who is in bf's form, but not particularly friendly with either,
a choice of the 3 local packs. I said that I didn't mind as long as #1 had
someone she knew in it.
I made slight "could they go together" noises at bf's mum, and she wouldn't
say what she was thinking. She then kept asking me which #1 was going to,
and once I'd said that we'd chosen one (#1 knows the leader) she said that
she was "really sorry but she was choosing one in the next district along".
Now my feeling was that if she was "really sorry" she'd have come and asked
me if #1 would like to try the same as hers, but I though maybe she'd asked
and found there was only one space.
Then when they started at the beginning of the term, I discovered that she'd
persuaded two girls from #1's form to go to that pack either. (one she's
friendly with the mother, the other she has no contact with at all, but
neither is friendly with bf).
Nut the other girl had chosen to go to #1's pack. I was really pleased about
this and we were sharing lifts etc, and #1 was getting on well with her. I
knew that bf was saying "our brownies is better than yours" and everything
#1 said they were doing they'd done it last week as it were.
Then the mother of this girl came to me and very embarrassed said that her
daughter was leaving that brownies because she was "too tired". Then said
that she was going to try a different brownies on a different night. Low and
behold, it's bf's pack. Now as it's a different district it wasn't given as
an option for us, so the only way this girl knew about it was through bf.
Then #1 tells me last night that bf says that her mum told this other girl
that she should change her to the other pack so they can have a nice group
from school.

I'm really miffed because I haven't been approached at all. She really does
seem to have this thing about removing friends from round #1. I'm no good on
confrontation, and she's much more dominant than me, so I know that I'd get
the worst of it, but I'm really upset for #1. She seems to always be the one
on her own, and she does find it hard making friends, which I think is one
of the reasons she's not found a friend in her own form.
Sorry about the vent. I feel better for writing it down, anyway.
Debbie



::dunno what to snip - can't always snip into bits and leave only bits::

Goodness.

Sounds like BF and BFMomma is way too much agita. Yeah, sounds like they've
been manipulative and irritating and I don't blame you for venting. But then,
why hang on?

So let your daughter make new friends with her *different* Brownie troop and her
*different* set of classmates she's now in. Half of this problem has already
been solved for you! Use your energy in setting up venues to foster that, if
she needs help making friends, instead of hassling with this whole thing with BF
and BFMomma. Let it go.

You needn't have gotten so mixed up with it as it is - let the girls work things
out. Friends come and go. Especially at this age.

Banty

I'm mom of three and my opinion...??? I'd stay out of this as much as
possible - and disengage from the high school antics of bf's
manipulative mom. Send your daughter to the brownie pack that is most
convenient for both of you in terms of location and meeting times.
Talk to her about the skills involved making friends i.e. how everyone
is a bit shy, and how she can break the ice by initiating
conversation. If she wants to go to another pack, let her ask you. If
she's not expressing unhappiness, let it lie.

I'd encourage your daughter to have lots of friends and play with lots
of people and totally take the emphasis off alpha female bf - and try
not to meddle unless your daughter is being bullied or mistreated.
Arrange playdates for her with various girls in her class. Give her
the tools to deal with rumours and the assorted games girls can play.
Talk about those situations - so she can see the games for what they
are - jealosy, manipulation, blackmail etc. Part of growing up is
learning to deal with this stuff.

BF doesn't sound like much of a prize if you ask me (sounds like a
right piece of work), and her mom is just plain scary. I wouldn't
waste my time thinking too hard about either one, to tell you the
truth. Its probably a very good thing that your daughter is in a
different form.

My youngest is a girl who is 10, and you wouldn't believe what some of
her friends have gotten up to in terms of manipulation. I stay out of
it at the time, but I do talk to her about the situation alone when I
know what is going on (i.e. when I overhear things - such as "I won't
be your friend if you don't play what I want to play", or the hurtful
verbal bullying and ganging up - or excluding -that goes on. We talk
a lot about feelings, why people do the things they do, and how to
respond or deal with the behaviors, and about being kind and
considerate.

Mary G.

"Welches" wrote in message
...
#1 (age 7 1/2yo)has a close best friend. She'd been best friends with her
since they were 4yo. They got put in separate forms when they went to
school, so they're not together as much as they could be.
As the time has gone on, #1 is basically friendly with most of the girls
in her form, but there's a group of girls she is very friendly with in the
other form.
I think BF mum thinks that #1 hangs onto the group because they're all
from the other form, but, I think, from the other girl's parent's pov they
see her as being at least as friendly to them as bf. Certainly one of them
she made friends with before she started new this year at the school.
Other parents have commented how nice she is and how they never hear from
their daughters anything that she's done which is nasty.
Now I have noticed that bf seems to be very jealous of #1 having other
friends. Things like when we invited one to our house bf told #1 that this
girl coudn't come because her mummy was going to invite her that day and
her mummy would make sure that she went to bf's house not #1's.
Bf is very "one up" . If #1's doing something fun, then bf did it twice
last week. Now #1 usually isn't bothered about this. She'll tell me how
funny it is that she's doing it because bf has already do it. Often (from
an adult mind) I can immediately tell that bf is making it up, but #1 is
very loyal and won't hear a thing against any of her friends even when
they've upset her, so most of the time I just say "oh that's nice" or
something. Occasionally I get particularly irritated and I say to bf's mum
"oh I hear bf is doing ***" and she'll usually say "oh no she's not", but
if I follow it up with "she said to me tha ***t" (I don't do it unless
it's been said in my presence so #1 isn't accused of making it up) and
bf's mum usually then covers it: "oh she must have meant ***"
She has made up stories about #1 doing nasty stuff, and yes, I am sure
it's made up, as I have had various teachers and other children tell me
that it's made up, as well as observing one or two times.

When they first got put in different forms then bf's mum said that we'd
have to make sure they did things together out of school so they could see
each other. However she seems to go out of her way not only to make sure
that they're not together, and, not only that but that she tries to make
sure that the rest of the friends are all with bf.

My real vent is brownies. (I think it's girl scouts or something in US).
They got to the end of Rainbows age and the leader offered me, bf and
another girl who is in bf's form, but not particularly friendly with
either, a choice of the 3 local packs. I said that I didn't mind as long
as #1 had someone she knew in it.
I made slight "could they go together" noises at bf's mum, and she
wouldn't say what she was thinking. She then kept asking me which #1 was
going to, and once I'd said that we'd chosen one (#1 knows the leader) she
said that she was "really sorry but she was choosing one in the next
district along". Now my feeling was that if she was "really sorry" she'd
have come and asked me if #1 would like to try the same as hers, but I
though maybe she'd asked and found there was only one space.
Then when they started at the beginning of the term, I discovered that
she'd persuaded two girls from #1's form to go to that pack either. (one
she's friendly with the mother, the other she has no contact with at all,
but neither is friendly with bf).
Nut the other girl had chosen to go to #1's pack. I was really pleased
about this and we were sharing lifts etc, and #1 was getting on well with
her. I knew that bf was saying "our brownies is better than yours" and
everything #1 said they were doing they'd done it last week as it were.
Then the mother of this girl came to me and very embarrassed said that her
daughter was leaving that brownies because she was "too tired". Then said
that she was going to try a different brownies on a different night. Low
and behold, it's bf's pack. Now as it's a different district it wasn't
given as an option for us, so the only way this girl knew about it was
through bf. Then #1 tells me last night that bf says that her mum told
this other girl that she should change her to the other pack so they can
have a nice group from school.

I'm really miffed because I haven't been approached at all. She really
does seem to have this thing about removing friends from round #1. I'm no
good on confrontation, and she's much more dominant than me, so I know
that I'd get the worst of it, but I'm really upset for #1. She seems to
always be the one on her own, and she does find it hard making friends,
which I think is one of the reasons she's not found a friend in her own
form.
Sorry about the vent. I feel better for writing it down, anyway.
Debbie



Hard to snip. It looks like bf's mom is trying to separate. And if it were
me, I would be singing Alleluia from the rooftops.

Hi --

It seems to me as though BF isn't really a best friend at all, just a
leftover from younger days. In fact, she sounds like a kid to avoid.

I'd suggest finding out from your daughter which kids in her own class
she gets on with, and then setting up playdates after school with one or
two of them. Try to nurture a friendship in her own form, and let BF
lapse from her life as much as possible.

The brownies situation also seems to be playing out well. If your
daughter is slow to make friends in the new group, again, set up
playdates or outings where it will be easier for her to develop her new
friendships.

It's important for kids to have more than one social circle, preferably
non-overlapping. That way, when things to wrong in one venue (and they
do from time to time) then she won't feel completely bereft, because
she'll still have her friends in the other venue. Even if it only lasts
a day or two (and the Situations That Occur are often very short-lived)
the knowledge that she gets to see a different group of friends who know
and care nothing about the Situation can be comforting.

Almost forgot .. as your daughter makes friends with various children,
you need to make friends with the various parents. Trade babysitting,
get together for weekend lunches, and so forth. That will have the
effect of keeping YOU well networked, so you won't be blindsided by
issues such as the different brownie troops.

I hope these thoughts help,
--Beth Kevles
-THE-COM-HERE
http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would
like me to reply.

wrote:
I'm mom of three and my opinion...??? I'd stay out of this as much as
possible - and disengage from the high school antics of bf's
manipulative mom. Send your daughter to the brownie pack that is most
convenient for both of you in terms of location and meeting times.
Talk to her about the skills involved making friends i.e. how everyone
is a bit shy, and how she can break the ice by initiating
conversation. If she wants to go to another pack, let her ask you. If
she's not expressing unhappiness, let it lie.

I'd encourage your daughter to have lots of friends and play with lots
of people and totally take the emphasis off alpha female bf - and try
not to meddle unless your daughter is being bullied or mistreated.
Arrange playdates for her with various girls in her class. Give her
the tools to deal with rumours and the assorted games girls can play.
Talk about those situations - so she can see the games for what they
are - jealosy, manipulation, blackmail etc. Part of growing up is
learning to deal with this stuff.

BF doesn't sound like much of a prize if you ask me (sounds like a
right piece of work), and her mom is just plain scary. I wouldn't
waste my time thinking too hard about either one, to tell you the
truth. Its probably a very good thing that your daughter is in a
different form.

I agree with this; however, I do think it's important to
keep your ear to the ground to listen for anything that might
be crossing the line with the mother. Most of the time kids can
work these things out amongst themselves and it's a good life
lesson (if an unpleasant one). However, you've got a mom involved
here, and those situations really can cross the line and require
some intervention on your part. If the mom is just playing petty
politics and making her daughter unavailable or playing oneupsmanship
games, then you can just ignore. If things move to more direct
attacks on your daughter, then it may be time to intervene. If
you ignore and distance now, it is less likely to get to that
point.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Welches says...

#1 (age 7 1/2yo)has a close best friend. She'd been best friends with her
since they were 4yo. They got put in separate forms when they went to
school, so they're not together as much as they could be.
As the time has gone on, #1 is basically friendly with most of the girls
in
her form, but there's a group of girls she is very friendly with in the
other form.
snip


::dunno what to snip - can't always snip into bits and leave only bits::

Goodness.

Sounds like BF and BFMomma is way too much agita. Yeah, sounds like
they've
been manipulative and irritating and I don't blame you for venting. But
then,
why hang on?

So let your daughter make new friends with her *different* Brownie troop
and her
*different* set of classmates she's now in. Half of this problem has
already
been solved for you! Use your energy in setting up venues to foster that,
if
she needs help making friends, instead of hassling with this whole thing
with BF
and BFMomma. Let it go.

You needn't have gotten so mixed up with it as it is - let the girls work
things
out. Friends come and go. Especially at this age.
I have kept out. Partually because I'm not good at handling conflict, and it
wouldn't help any of us. I haven't let #1 know that it is getting me down,
but I can't manage to keep out emotionally.
I'm having a bit of a time at the moment with things, which doesn't help.
We're trying to move house on a flat/failing housing market, then there's
conflict with my brother that I mentioned is the thread on Sue's daughter.
And #3 isn't sleeping because he's having ear infection after ear infection.
So I'm feeling very tearful and stressed.
The main reason that the friendship is hanging on is that #1 wants it to
hang on. I think if I try and split her off from #1 then she'll be split
from her other friends too, as they're all in the other form, and I think bf
would be forceful enough to take them all, and #1 doesn't have enough
confidence to approach the set friendship groups in her class and try and
join in.
The brownie troup is a bit different. Most of the girls come from a separate
infant school. She knows a few, but they're all older (2 years) than her,
and will move on way before her. She one of the youngest anyway because
she's only just turned 7yo.
Thanks:
Debbie

wrote in message
...
I'm mom of three and my opinion...??? I'd stay out of this as much as
possible - and disengage from the high school antics of bf's
manipulative mom. Send your daughter to the brownie pack that is most
convenient for both of you in terms of location and meeting times.
Talk to her about the skills involved making friends i.e. how everyone
is a bit shy, and how she can break the ice by initiating
conversation. If she wants to go to another pack, let her ask you. If
she's not expressing unhappiness, let it lie.

I have totally stayed out.
The friendship issue is a bit different. I have discussed with her making
friends, but she finds it very difficult to make the first move,
particularly if it's joining in with a group. I found that very hard at
school too.
She's a bit tearful at present, with a lot of pressure on her and our
family, so I don't know how much it is upsetting her.

I'd encourage your daughter to have lots of friends and play with lots
of people and totally take the emphasis off alpha female bf - and try
not to meddle unless your daughter is being bullied or mistreated.
Arrange playdates for her with various girls in her class. Give her
the tools to deal with rumours and the assorted games girls can play.
Talk about those situations - so she can see the games for what they
are - jealosy, manipulation, blackmail etc. Part of growing up is
learning to deal with this stuff.

Her class is very much in set friendship groups. One set she gets on fine
with, and joins in if it's just her form, but is obviously the "outsider".
The other sets I'm not sure would let her play if she asked. I have tried
arranging playdates with them and either they come here and don't invite her
back, or don't come at all. There is a majority of boys in her class.
I think part of the problem is that her form hasn't had any new girls except
one and she didn't stay long (she got on very well with-looking back I
realise that bf did find that a problem) and she went up very much friends
with bf. So they didn't look for friends in their own forms, and the other
girls didn't look on them as friend material as they were always with the
other. The set of friends she has in the other form have all arrived new
into that form since the first year there.

BF doesn't sound like much of a prize if you ask me (sounds like a
right piece of work), and her mom is just plain scary. I wouldn't
waste my time thinking too hard about either one, to tell you the
truth. Its probably a very good thing that your daughter is in a
different form.

In some ways she's lovely. I'm venting here but they can have a lot of fun
together. I'm also very aware that this is from my (and #1's) point of view.
I suspect bf's mum would have a completely different side of it.
The "one-up manship" has been an issue for about 3 years now. I don't think
#1 does it back, but I can't be sure. I've never heard her do it, and I have
observed when they haven't seen me.
Debbie

My youngest is a girl who is 10, and you wouldn't believe what some of
her friends have gotten up to in terms of manipulation. I stay out of
it at the time, but I do talk to her about the situation alone when I
know what is going on (i.e. when I overhear things - such as "I won't
be your friend if you don't play what I want to play", or the hurtful
verbal bullying and ganging up - or excluding -that goes on. We talk
a lot about feelings, why people do the things they do, and how to
respond or deal with the behaviors, and about being kind and
considerate.

"Stephanie" wrote in message
. ..

"Welches" wrote in message
...
#1 (age 7 1/2yo)has a close best friend. She'd been best friends with her
since they were 4yo. They got put in separate forms when they went to
school, so they're not together as much as they could be.
As the time has gone on, #1 is basically friendly with most of the girls
in her form, but there's a group of girls she is very friendly with in
the other form.
snip


Hard to snip. It looks like bf's mom is trying to separate. And if it were
me, I would be singing Alleluia from the rooftops.

In some ways I agree. But otoh, I think that will leave #1 with no friends
at school, which she'll find very hard. #1 doesn't want to split either.
I'm suspicious that she wants bf to link up with a girl whose parents she's
friendly with, and I think she's been trying this for some time. I suspect
she slags #1 off to her from some of the reaction I've had from this mother
too.
Debbie

"Welches"
I'm having a bit of a time at the moment with things, which doesn't help.
We're trying to move house on a flat/failing housing market, then there's
conflict with my brother that I mentioned is the thread on Sue's daughter.
And #3 isn't sleeping because he's having ear infection after ear
infection. So I'm feeling very tearful and stressed.

I am sorry that it brought up bad memories for you. However, I am very glad
that you talked about it because I do think my role in the way the girls
relate to each other has made an impact on how they get along. I think that
you were spot on how DD2 might be feeling. Things have been pretty good
around here for the last few days since we have changed a few things around.
My hope of course is that it continues to go well. Anyway, I did just want
to tell you thank you for sharing your feelings on my problem.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)