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#101
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Any advice for potty training??
On Dec 31 2007, 4:48 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
mommak wrote: I know what you mean. Well Ariel just got her potty chair for Christmas... and the first time I caught her pooping and grunting... I got the potty and tried to see if she would sit on it. And that was a NO. She would not sit on that potty at all while using the bathroom. So I'm not gonig to force her... but I will remind her when I catch her grunting... I will bring the potty to her and tell her... This is where you go potty. I have let her see me sit on it... and I faked grunting... she laughed. I don't think she is ready... but I will continue to try..... but NOT push her. If your mother reminded you to do something every time the opportunity arose when you were not yet ready to do it, would that not seem pushy to you even if you weren't scolded for not doing it? If you were too little to hang your coat up on a high hook, and every time you came in the door you mother told you to hang up your coat, would you not start to get resentful at having your mother continually raise the issue? That's the path you're heading down, even if you never once get testy or scold her or punish her. By the 100th time she hears you tell her where big girls poop and pee, she may be so cranky over it you'll either delay potty training or, worse yet, start a pattern of withholding or other undesirable behaviors. Yep. There's a certain amount of concentration/relaxation needed to have a BM -- it's one reason people want their privacy and quiet (as Betsy mentioned). By bringing her the potty when she's grunting, you've actually interrupted that focus. That means she may well not be able to resume what she was doing, however much she tries. Lori G. |
#102
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Any advice for potty training??
You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of
three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her in some fashion that they need to go. However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help, urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements). Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range. If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom, take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me like a huge time waster for everyone involved. Mary G. |
#103
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Any advice for potty training??
On Jan 1, 3:29*pm, wrote:
You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her in some fashion that they need to go. However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help, urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements). Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range. If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom, take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me like a huge time waster for everyone involved. Mary G. I understand what yall are saying as well. But I'm not hawking her and I don't do it every time I catch he pottying. I have taken the potty into our bathroom and I let her sit on it when she wants. I see the difference in mom and child being potty trained.... I'm trying to potty train me first... then her. I know it will be a while before she can pull her own pants down and back up by herself.... but at least I can start helping her and showing her. Helping her is better than nothing to me. I have no intention of having her potty trained by a certain age... I'm just going to go with her flow. I will show her things and talk to her about them... even if she still doesn't understand all the way. A child has to be taught everything pretty much. So the same thing with potty training for me... she has to be taught. She was taught to walk she was taught to drink from a sippy cup and or from a straw. They have to be taught how to put their clothes and shoes on right. Those things are taught... but some you just don't realize you are teaching. Like putting their clothes on. My 1 yr old will put her hands through arm holes and she lifts her legs to take off and put on her pants. These are things she is already learning.... Just by being dressed every day. She starts to notice things. She tries to put her shoes on... but she ain't quite there. She TRIES though,.... and I think that is better than nothing. She watches us use the bathroom... so she is learning whether she knows it or not. |
#104
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Any advice for potty training??
On Dec 31 2007, 5:48*pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
mommak wrote: I know what you mean. *Well Ariel just got her potty chair for Christmas... and the first time I caught her pooping and grunting... I got the potty and tried to see if she would sit on it. And that was a NO. She would not sit on that potty at all while using the bathroom. So I'm not gonig to force her... but I will remind her when I catch her grunting... I will bring the potty to her and tell her... This is where you go potty. I have let her see me sit on it... and I faked grunting... she laughed. I don't think she is ready... but I will continue to try..... but NOT push her. * * * * If your mother reminded you to do something every time the opportunity arose when you were not yet ready to do it, would that not seem pushy to you even if you weren't scolded for not doing it? *If you were too little to hang your coat up on a high hook, and every time you came in the door you mother told you to hang up your coat, would you not start to get resentful at having your mother continually raise the issue? *That's the path you're heading down, even if you never once get testy or scold her or punish her. *By the 100th time she hears you tell her where big girls poop and pee, she may be so cranky over it you'll either delay potty training or, worse yet, start a pattern of withholding or other undesirable behaviors. Best wishes, Ericka I don't remind her every time. I have the potty in the bathroom and when I am sitting on the BIG potty .... I let her sit on hers if that is what she wants to do. I don't force her to do anything. I'm not asking her for the impossible... not asking her for anything. I'm trying to teach her something. Hanging up a coat on a high coat hanger... that is something completely different. That is a chore... potty is not. Potty ing is something you learn.... being tooo short for something... is different. I wouldn't ask her to hang her coat up if she couldn't reach it. But she can reach her potty. And edventually she will learn what I am doing on the potty and she'll want to be like momma... and then she will start to try. But for now... I let her do want she wants. I always talk to her ... About everything... even if she can't understand. I still talk to her cause I know one dya she will understand. I not constantly waiting for her to potty... I just take her with me when I go and let her watch. |
#105
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Any advice for potty training??
mommak wrote:
On Dec 31 2007, 5:48 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote: mommak wrote: I know what you mean. Well Ariel just got her potty chair for Christmas... and the first time I caught her pooping and grunting... I got the potty and tried to see if she would sit on it. And that was a NO. She would not sit on that potty at all while using the bathroom. So I'm not gonig to force her... but I will remind her when I catch her grunting... I will bring the potty to her and tell her... This is where you go potty. I have let her see me sit on it... and I faked grunting... she laughed. I don't think she is ready... but I will continue to try..... but NOT push her. If your mother reminded you to do something every time the opportunity arose when you were not yet ready to do it, would that not seem pushy to you even if you weren't scolded for not doing it? If you were too little to hang your coat up on a high hook, and every time you came in the door you mother told you to hang up your coat, would you not start to get resentful at having your mother continually raise the issue? That's the path you're heading down, even if you never once get testy or scold her or punish her. By the 100th time she hears you tell her where big girls poop and pee, she may be so cranky over it you'll either delay potty training or, worse yet, start a pattern of withholding or other undesirable behaviors. I don't remind her every time. I have the potty in the bathroom and when I am sitting on the BIG potty .... I let her sit on hers if that is what she wants to do. I don't force her to do anything. My point is that force is not required to make this situation go awry, despite your good intentions. You can get negative behaviors on her part without your ever uttering a cross word to her. She might be fine, or she might rebel. The point is that you're taking a gamble when you keep the issue in front of her for what is likely to be a substantial amount of time. I think you're seeing this through your adult eyes and your personal bias, and not necessarily from the point of view of a child. I'm not asking her for the impossible... not asking her for anything. Sure you are. You're frequently reminding her that big girls use the potty. Any child worth her salt is going to pick up very quickly on the fact that you would like her to use the potty. The most important thing in a young child's life is the approval of his or her parents. You don't have to be what *YOU* would consider pushy for her to feel pressure. You have to look at this from *her* perspective, not an adult's perspective. I'm trying to teach her something. Hanging up a coat on a high coat hanger... that is something completely different. That is a chore... potty is not. To *YOU*, perhaps. She may see it very differently. While some kids just don't like diapers, for most using the potty *is* a chore. They may have fun with the novelty and praise in the beginning, but many get quite resistant when they get the picture that this is what they're going to be expected to do day in and day out for the rest of their lives. That's why it's very common to have an early period of relative success followed by a period where the child is highly resistant. Potty ing is something you learn.... being tooo short for something... is different. I wouldn't ask her to hang her coat up if she couldn't reach it. But she can reach her potty. But it is the same in that she is not yet developmentally ready for the basic building blocks of potty training, which include recognizing the sensation that you need to go, having the ability to hold it until you get to the bathroom, and having the ability to go at will when you *do* get to the bathroom. Yes, some people do use elimination timing successfully, but that is not what you're talking about when you describe what you're doing with your daughter. Elimination timing is not about teaching the child. It's about teaching the parent to recognize the child's involuntary signals (and then can grow over time into more of a two-way communication). You're past that point with your daughter, and you've been talking about *teaching* her how to use the potty--something that she is almost certainly not developmentally ready for. So, in fact, you *are* planning to fairly consistently remind her to something she likely cannot do anymore than she could hang her coat up on a hook too high for her to reach. And edventually she will learn what I am doing on the potty and she'll want to be like momma... and then she will start to try. Maybe. Or maybe she will be so fed up with it by that time that she will dig in her heels and refuse. This is the gamble you're taking. It pans out for some, and others get bitten big time. But for now... I let her do want she wants. I always talk to her ... About everything... even if she can't understand. I still talk to her cause I know one dya she will understand. I not constantly waiting for her to potty... I just take her with me when I go and let her watch. I can see how *you* perceive it that way, but I think there's a substantial risk that *she* will perceive it differently--if not right now, then a little further down the line when she has more understanding of what you're saying. Even *I* don't believe that you don't really care when she starts using the potty. It seems fairly clear to me that you *do* care that she potty train on what most would consider to be the early side, even if you don't expect it to happen today or tomorrow. I don't believe for a minute that you will be happy as a clam if it's two years from now and your daughter still hasn't chosen to potty train. Your daughter will be much more in tune with your feelings on this--*regardless* of what you say--and if she catches the slightest whiff that you have anything invested in her potty training, that could easily cause her to dig in her heels. It might not. There are some kids who are much more compliant about these things. Many kids, however, are very sensitive to being pushed in this area and paybacks are not much fun. They don't have control over many things as toddlers, but one thing they do control is when and where they poop and pee. If they feel pushed (regardless of whether you think you're pushing or not), many will assert their control over this issue and make it very clear they they are in charge of this function. Best wishes, Ericka |
#106
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Any advice for potty training??
On Jan 2, 12:09*pm, mommak wrote:
On Jan 1, 3:29*pm, wrote: You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her in some fashion that they need to go. However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help, urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements). Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range. If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom, take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me like a huge time waster for everyone involved. Mary G. I understand what yall are saying as well. But I'm *not hawking her and I don't do it every time I catch he pottying. I have taken the potty into our bathroom and I let her sit on it when she wants. I see the difference in mom and child being potty trained.... I'm trying to potty train me first... then her. *I know it will be a while before she can pull her own pants down and back up by herself.... but at least I can start helping her and showing her. Helping her is better than nothing to me. I have no intention of having her potty trained by a certain age... I'm just going to go with her flow. I will show her things and talk to her about them... even if she still doesn't understand all the way. A child has to be taught everything pretty much. So the same thing with potty training for me... she has to be taught. She was taught to walk *she was taught to drink from a sippy cup and or from a straw. They have to be taught how to put their clothes and shoes on right. Those things are taught... but some you just don't realize you are teaching. Like putting their clothes on. My 1 yr old will put her hands through arm holes and she lifts her legs to take off and put on her pants. These are things she is already learning.... Just by being dressed every day. She starts to notice things. She tries to put her shoes on... but she ain't quite there. She TRIES though,.... and I think that is better than nothing. She watches us use the bathroom... so she is learning whether she knows it or not.- Hide quoted text - But you also have to understand that potty learning also involves physical readiness, which usually doesn't develop until 18 months to 2 years. Its not enough that the child is aware that her diaper is soiled, or even that she is soil*ing* the diaper; the child has to recognize that she needs to eliminate, and be able to hold off for some time. Until the child has reached that level of physical development, she's just not going to be able to do it, and that level of development is not common in a child your daughter's age. There's nothing wrong with introducing the concept of using the potty or toilet and discussing it; just don't be disappointed if your child is not physically ready, and don't push it. For the record, when my son was about 2-1/2, he started peeing in the tub. I grabbed a potty, held it under the stream, and said *that's what mommy means when she says pee on the potty* A light went off, sort of like that's all you want; sheesh, I can do that. He was using the potty reliably, with virtually no accidents, within a week. Barbara |
#107
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Any advice for potty training??
mommak wrote:
On Dec 31 2007, 5:48 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote: mommak wrote: I know what you mean. Well Ariel just got her potty chair for Christmas... and the first time I caught her pooping and grunting... I got the potty and tried to see if she would sit on it. And that was a NO. She would not sit on that potty at all while using the bathroom. So I'm not gonig to force her... but I will remind her when I catch her grunting... I will bring the potty to her and tell her... This is where you go potty. I have let her see me sit on it... and I faked grunting... she laughed. I don't think she is ready... but I will continue to try..... but NOT push her. If your mother reminded you to do something every time the opportunity arose when you were not yet ready to do it, would that not seem pushy to you even if you weren't scolded for not doing it? If you were too little to hang your coat up on a high hook, and every time you came in the door you mother told you to hang up your coat, would you not start to get resentful at having your mother continually raise the issue? That's the path you're heading down, even if you never once get testy or scold her or punish her. By the 100th time she hears you tell her where big girls poop and pee, she may be so cranky over it you'll either delay potty training or, worse yet, start a pattern of withholding or other undesirable behaviors. Best wishes, Ericka I don't remind her every time. I have the potty in the bathroom and when I am sitting on the BIG potty .... I let her sit on hers if that is what she wants to do. I don't force her to do anything. I'm not asking her for the impossible... not asking her for anything. I'm trying to teach her something. Hanging up a coat on a high coat hanger... that is something completely different. That is a chore... potty is not. Potty ing is something you learn.... being tooo short for something... is different. I wouldn't ask her to hang her coat up if she couldn't reach it. But she can reach her potty. And edventually she will learn what I am doing on the potty and she'll want to be like momma... and then she will start to try. But for now... I let her do want she wants. I always talk to her ... About everything... even if she can't understand. I still talk to her cause I know one dya she will understand. I not constantly waiting for her to potty... I just take her with me when I go and let her watch. While I wouldn't discourage her from learning more about her body functions, but I wouldn't worry about it all. When the time is right, she will learn. Right now, there are more important things to learn and do, for both of you. Jeff |
#108
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Any advice for potty training??
On Jan 2, 11:09 am, mommak wrote:
On Jan 1, 3:29 pm, wrote: You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her in some fashion that they need to go. However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help, urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements). Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range. If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom, take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me like a huge time waster for everyone involved. Mary G. I understand what yall are saying as well. But I'm not hawking her and I don't do it every time I catch he pottying. I have taken the potty into our bathroom and I let her sit on it when she wants. I see the difference in mom and child being potty trained.... I'm trying to potty train me first... then her. I know it will be a while before she can pull her own pants down and back up by herself.... but at least I can start helping her and showing her. Helping her is better than nothing to me. I have no intention of having her potty trained by a certain age... I'm just going to go with her flow. I will show her things and talk to her about them... even if she still doesn't understand all the way. A child has to be taught everything pretty much. So the same thing with potty training for me... she has to be taught. She was taught to walk she was taught to drink from a sippy cup and or from a straw. There's a big difference between actively teaching (bringing the potty to a grunting toddler and telling her this is where big girls poop) and allowing a kid to watch and learn through osmosis. And when you're actively teaching, you make sure that it's something appropriate to the child's development. Did you try to teach your daughter to walk when she was 2 days old? Did you give her the sippy cup or straw when she was 2 weeks old so she could "try" and "practice"? It's a good idea to model "please" and "thank you" when you talk with a baby -- when she hands you a toy, for instance. But did you make it a point to tell your 3-month-old reaching for a toy that "big girls say 'please'?" Lori G |
#109
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Any advice for potty training??
On Jan 2, 12:09*pm, mommak wrote:
On Jan 1, 3:29*pm, wrote: You asked for advice about potty training a 1 year old. I'm mom of three. I guess the whole issue boils down to what you define as potty trained. I know there are moms who claim to have potty trained infants and young toddlers the same age as your child, but when you hear the details of what is actually going on, it is MOM that is trained. It's mom who has learned to recognize the signs and signals, the physical patterns or rhythms involved, so that she knows to take the child to the bathroom. If she's really lucky, the kid may be able to tell her in some fashion that they need to go. However, MY definition of being toilet trained is that the KID realizes they need to go, stops what they are doing, goes into the bathroom without prompting, takes down their own pants, sits on the potty or toilet, and does their business, all with limited adult help, urging, nagging, prompting (help with wiping is okay and expected in preschool kids, particularly for bowel movements). Given my definition of a trained child, I would personally say that trying to train a 1 year old is a waste of time. Most kids train by my definition somewhere in the 2 1/2- 3 1/2 range. If you have to watch the kid like a hawk, take them to the bathroom, take down the pants, sit with them the whole time etc. it seems to me like a huge time waster for everyone involved. Mary G. I understand what yall are saying as well. But I'm *not hawking her and I don't do it every time I catch he pottying. I have taken the potty into our bathroom and I let her sit on it when she wants. I see the difference in mom and child being potty trained.... I'm trying to potty train me first... then her. *I know it will be a while before she can pull her own pants down and back up by herself.... but at least I can start helping her and showing her. Helping her is better than nothing to me. I have no intention of having her potty trained by a certain age... I'm just going to go with her flow. I will show her things and talk to her about them... even if she still doesn't understand all the way. A child has to be taught everything pretty much. So the same thing with potty training for me... she has to be taught. She was taught to walk *she was taught to drink from a sippy cup and or from a straw. They have to be taught how to put their clothes and shoes on right. Those things are taught... but some you just don't realize you are teaching. Like putting their clothes on. My 1 yr old will put her hands through arm holes and she lifts her legs to take off and put on her pants. These are things she is already learning.... Just by being dressed every day. She starts to notice things. She tries to put her shoes on... but she ain't quite there. She TRIES though,.... and I think that is better than nothing. She watches us use the bathroom... so she is learning whether she knows it or not.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - [Coming into the discussion somewhat late]. But WHY? What do you hope to gain by 'helping her and showing her' at this stage. There's an old joke that if you start potty training at 12 months you'll be done in a year and a half. If you start potty training at 2 1/2 you'll be done in a week. This really isn't something you have to labor at for months and years in order to succceed. When kids are ready to train they usually train pretty quickly (a few days to a few weeks). When they are NOT ready to train, you will be at it for months or years ... and the end result WILL be, at best, the same, and at worst even worse, since the child will be frustrated and resisistant, and you'll end up in a power struggle. Now, I'm not saying you should never mention the potty, or must wait until she demands to be out of diapers. But don't make a big deal about it. If she follows you into the bathroom, an OCCASSIONAL mention that 'big girls and mommies pee on the potty and when YOU are a big girl you won't pee in your diapers' is fine. But buying her a potty for her Christmas at 13 months? Why buy her a gift she won't be able to use for, probably, at LEAST a year, and possibly 2 years or more? You don't have to 'teach' kids to control their bodily functions any more than you teach them to walk or talk. (How exactly did you teach your child to walk? Didn't she make the usual progression from sitting to pulling up to standing to walking on her own?) When they reach the point of developmental readiness, and are interested, they do it on their own. Then you give them a little extra help and encouragement, and provide them with an appropriate receptable (potty, toilet seat adapter), and they are trained. With minimal effort from you. Now... if you really want to spend the next 18 months working on this, and Ariel is good with it ... more power to you. But I prefered to spend my time with my toddler in more enjoyable pursuits -- reading a story, playing games. But if Ariel DOES get frustrated or resistant, please put the potty away and forget about it until she is more likely to be ready -- which, as noted, will probably be around 2 1/2-3 1/2. Naomi |
#110
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totally OT
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