Who has the ultimate right to choose?

"elizabeth" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Apr 2, 11:02 pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
elizabeth wrote:
Then she alone bears the SOLE responsibility for such choice and any
resulting consequences, right?

Nope.

BOTH parents are supposed to support the child.

The usual sexist double standard.

Too bad men feel that's optional . ..

It's already optional for women.

Wrong. Women *are* responsible for support--and men who request
custody do get it.

Uhuh, and a guy I know just won the lottery. Clearly, you are unaware that
women have the option of "drop-off" establishments for their newborns,
adoption, or keeping the child. Sounds optional to me.

I'd say it's much easier to toss in a few bucks
every month than do the actual work, which is why I'd make it
mandatory for the father to have sole physical custody.

Guess mandatory paternity isn't good enough? Now you have to include
mandatory custody. How many more double standards will it take before you're
satisfied?

Men would
line up for vasectomies if this were the law of the land.

My guess is you would have more women than men lining up to get fixed
assuming women would no longer get paid to bear children.



if I were in charge, in such
cases, I would make the woman get a job and make the man do all the
actual childcare, with no vacations, under the supervision of parents
who know how to raise children properly .. . if men knew they'd be
FORCED TO DO THE WORK, they'd line up for vasectomies, and never miss
a child support payment.

And still more of the usual sexist double standards.

Just the opposite. I want to stop women from trying to get on welfare
and get child support by irresponsible breeding.

Uhuh. That's why you promote designated fathers paying money to such women.

Since we spew so
much pronatalist propaganda on women, many of the least intelligent
believe that breeding children is somehow enobling.

It is anything but that, in our overpopulated world.

Overpopulation is a matter of opinion, but forcing a man to pay money to a
woman for her sole choice is a matter of FACT.



so if you are one of those asshole deadbeats, get snipped, or maybe we
should do it old school, with an axe.

Because, after all, we cannot expect women to be responsible for their
fertility.

well, dearie, many women simply don't have access to safe, effective
methods.
There are no "free birth control pills for any women" anymore, and
there is no female method as cheap, safe, and effective as vasectomies.

And that should be the presumed father's problem because?

On Apr 10, 6:39�pm, "Chris" wrote:
"elizabeth" wrote in message

ups.com...





On Apr 2, 11:02 pm, (Ray Fischer) wrote:
elizabeth wrote:
Then she alone bears the SOLE responsibility for such choice and any
resulting consequences, right?

Nope.

BOTH parents are supposed to support the child.

The usual sexist double standard.

Too bad men feel that's optional . ..

It's already optional for women.

Wrong. *Women *are* responsible for support--and men who request
custody do get it.

Uhuh, and a guy I know just won the lottery. Clearly, you are unaware that
women have the option of "drop-off" establishments for their newborns,
adoption, or keeping the child. Sounds optional to me.

I'd say it's much easier to toss in a few bucks
every month than do the actual work, which is why I'd make it
mandatory for the father to have sole physical custody.

Guess mandatory paternity isn't good enough? Now you have to include
mandatory custody. How many more double standards will it take before you're
satisfied?

Men would
line up for vasectomies if this were the law of the land.

My guess is you would have more women than men lining up to get fixed
assuming women would no longer get paid to bear children.



if I were in charge, in such
cases, I would make the woman get a job and make the man do all the
actual childcare, with no vacations, under the supervision of parents
who know how to raise children properly .. . *if men knew they'd be
FORCED TO DO THE WORK, they'd line up for vasectomies, and never miss
a child support payment.

And still more of the usual sexist double standards.

Just the opposite. *I want to stop women from trying to get on welfare
and get child support by irresponsible breeding.

Uhuh. That's why you promote designated fathers paying money to such women.

Since we spew so
much pronatalist propaganda on women, many of the least intelligent
believe that breeding children is somehow enobling.

It is anything but that, in our overpopulated world.

Overpopulation is a matter of opinion, but forcing a man to pay money to a
woman for her sole choice is a matter of FACT.



so if you are one of those asshole deadbeats, get snipped, or maybe we
should do it old school, with an axe.

Because, after all, we cannot expect women to be responsible for their
fertility.

well, dearie, many women simply don't have access to safe, effective
methods.
There are no "free birth control pills for any women" anymore, and
there is no female method as cheap, safe, and effective as vasectomies.

And that should be the presumed father's problem because?



- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father, the
LEAST he can do is use a condom. Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like being a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

Relayer wrote:
Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father, the
LEAST he can do is use a condom.

A classic anti-abortion argument.

Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like being a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

"If she wore a short skirt then she deserved to be raped."

Same logic.

--
Ray Fischer

"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
...
Relayer wrote:
Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father, the
LEAST he can do is use a condom.

A classic anti-abortion argument.

Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like being a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

"If she wore a short skirt then she deserved to be raped."

Same logic.


Oh come on, Ray. A man who does not want to be a father but does want to
engage in sexual intercourse could at least have the common sense to protect
himself. It's HIS sperm--he should at least try to keep the little fellers
corralled.

teachrmama wrote:
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
Relayer wrote:
Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father, the
LEAST he can do is use a condom.

A classic anti-abortion argument.

Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like being a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

"If she wore a short skirt then she deserved to be raped."

Same logic.

Oh come on, Ray. A man who does not want to be a father but does want to
engage in sexual intercourse could at least have the common sense to protect
himself.

The classic anti-abortion argument.

It's HIS sperm--he should at least try to keep the little fellers
corralled.

And her egg. But more importantly, whether to have a child is still
entirely her choice.

--
Ray Fischer

"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
...
teachrmama wrote:
"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
Relayer wrote:
Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father, the
LEAST he can do is use a condom.

A classic anti-abortion argument.

Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like being a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

"If she wore a short skirt then she deserved to be raped."

Same logic.

Oh come on, Ray. A man who does not want to be a father but does want to
engage in sexual intercourse could at least have the common sense to
protect
himself.

The classic anti-abortion argument.

It's HIS sperm--he should at least try to keep the little fellers
corralled.

And her egg. But more importantly, whether to have a child is still
entirely her choice.


All the more reason for the man to protect himself--seeing as how at this
point in time the system is going to enrich the woman at the expense of both
the man and the child. Certainly there is nobody else out there protecting
you.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Ray Fischer" wrote in message
...
Relayer wrote:
Really, bottom line is if the guy doesn't want to be a father, the
LEAST he can do is use a condom.

A classic anti-abortion argument.

Not 100% but still better than
nothing. However, most guys dont like them. But some will like being a
father a LOT less.....

If he didn't use a condom, then too bad.

"If she wore a short skirt then she deserved to be raped."

Same logic.


Oh come on, Ray. A man who does not want to be a father but does want to
engage in sexual intercourse could at least have the common sense to
protect
himself. It's HIS sperm--he should at least try to keep the little
fellers
corralled.

Protecting oneself is indeed a wise course of action. However, not locking
the front door does NOT get the thief off the hook.