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#61
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Tue, 19 Feb 2008 19:41:24 -0800 (PST), hedgehog42
wrote: On Feb 19, 4:27 pm, Beliavsky wrote: Another view of human nature is that children are born little savages that need to be civilized by their parents. Conservative Christians would talk of "original sin", but one can be an atheist and have a similar philosophy. I know people who hold this view. A lot of them don't really enjoy parenting. Easy to see why. It doesn't strike me as a particularly civilized, or effective, to think of children as "other." In my experience, kids respond better when you treat them as people rather than alien beings or wild animals. It does take awhile for them to learn the specifics of living in a community with others, yes, but I've found kids generally want to please adults who take the time to engage them. Lori I agree. I also suggest to those who think otherwise that they read A General Theory of Love by Thomas Lewis, Fari Amini, and Richard Lannin. This book goes into the neurology and biology of our emotional dependence on others. While the theories are not proven, they make intuitive sense and there is some research to back up what they are saying. (Anyone know where Glen Appleby is or if he is still alive? I miss that man and this was one of many books he recommended to me). -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#62
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 10:33:23 -0800 (PST), Beliavsky
wrote: They're getting more praise and kisses, fewer smacks and scoldings. Now ask yourself this: Are children today less aggressive than they were two or three generations ago? Are they nicer? Are they happier? The answer is no. Rates of violence, of depression, and of suicide have gone up, not down. Nice, but untrue: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_c.htm Trends (in the United States) Since 1994, violent crime rates have declined, reaching the lowest level ever recorded in 2005. -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#63
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
In article , Banty
wrote: Correct -- the canonical electrocution method for the pre-school set. I had no idea you called them something else (or why would M$ call their product that?). You can make your (presentation) points with power? Certainly, but I never thought it was just a bit of alliteration. Al la "An Inconvenient Truth". Al la instead of a la? Was that a pun or a Freudian slip? Please don't tell me there's a PP presentation involved in it. Of all the buggy products of the Evil Empire, PP has to be the worst. I call what you call "powerpoints" "electrical outlets". Check alt.home.repair. I'm quite sure I'd have to develop a dictionary before involving myself there. I was reading a Decorator Quiz (from a North American magazine online) a while back and was stumped when asked to define "Pelmet", because none of the answers were right. I can't figure out how building terms, which are often old words, can come to vary so much! Particle board, plasterboard, skirting boards, pelmets, cornices... I'd be worried I was about to do something wrong due to a failure in translation! -- Chookie -- Sydney, Australia (Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply) http://chookiesbackyard.blogspot.com/ |
#64
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Beliavsky wrote:
They're getting more praise and kisses, fewer smacks and scoldings. Now ask yourself this: Are children today less aggressive than they were two or three generations ago? Are they nicer? Are they happier? The answer is no. Rates of violence, of depression, and of suicide have gone up, not down. JB: So why haven't the advice-givers noticed that their advice is not having the predicted effects? I think it is because the advice is not really followed. Often times positive discipline is not used at all, but replaced with NO discipline. God I had some unruly kids in my daycare. The conversation needs to be changed from smack or do nothing to include actual effective methods of positive discipline, IMO. I challenge you to go to the library and get and READ the books I mention above. |
#65
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Feb 21, 10:33 am, Beliavsky wrote:
Since a large number of parents actually listen to the advice, kids today are being raised very differently from the way their grandparents were raised. They're getting more praise and kisses, fewer smacks and scoldings. Now ask yourself this: Are children today less aggressive than they were two or three generations ago? Are they nicer? Are they happier? The answer is no. Rates of violence, of depression, and of suicide have gone up, not down. And rates of depression and suicide among these children's parents and grandparents (who were raised "properly") have stayed stable or improved? I only wish. Whatever it is that's making depression more common, it can't be disciplinary styles or it wouldn't be across the ages. The violence myth has already been addressed. Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel and the Bug, 4 years old and something brewing, 4/08 |
#66
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
In article ehrebeniuk-800E00.22491922022008@news, Chookie says...
In article , Banty wrote: Correct -- the canonical electrocution method for the pre-school set. I had no idea you called them something else (or why would M$ call their product that?). You can make your (presentation) points with power? Certainly, but I never thought it was just a bit of alliteration. I did Al la "An Inconvenient Truth". Al la instead of a la? Was that a pun or a Freudian slip? Tupo. (Where would the pun be?) Please don't tell me there's a PP presentation involved in it. Of all the buggy products of the Evil Empire, PP has to be the worst. That's the usual statement about the documentary, even from supporters. A lot of it is a Powerpoint presentation. I don't know if another presentation application was used. Banty (used to use Lotus, but the Evil Empire won out at my workplace..) |
#67
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
In article , Stephanie says...
Beliavsky wrote: They're getting more praise and kisses, fewer smacks and scoldings. Now ask yourself this: Are children today less aggressive than they were two or three generations ago? Are they nicer? Are they happier? The answer is no. Rates of violence, of depression, and of suicide have gone up, not down. JB: So why haven't the advice-givers noticed that their advice is not having the predicted effects? I think it is because the advice is not really followed. Often times positive discipline is not used at all, but replaced with NO discipline. God I had some unruly kids in my daycare. The conversation needs to be changed from smack or do nothing to include actual effective methods of positive discipline, IMO. I challenge you to go to the library and get and READ the books I mention above. Yep. That article hidden-assumptioned consistent and competent implementation, then post-hoc ergo propter hoc'ed to the desired conclusion. Then mis-tated easily verifiable facts to support it. And the inherent false dilemma of the whole framing of the question, as you noted. How many logic problems can be packed in a single article? Back to parenting - yes, a lot of times there's no discipline; a lot of times what passes for "discipline" is really frustration/anger venting by the parent. Banty |
#68
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
In article ,
Akuvikate says... On Feb 21, 10:33 am, Beliavsky wrote: Since a large number of parents actually listen to the advice, kids today are being raised very differently from the way their grandparents were raised. They're getting more praise and kisses, fewer smacks and scoldings. Now ask yourself this: Are children today less aggressive than they were two or three generations ago? Are they nicer? Are they happier? The answer is no. Rates of violence, of depression, and of suicide have gone up, not down. And rates of depression and suicide among these children's parents and grandparents (who were raised "properly") have stayed stable or improved? I only wish. Whatever it is that's making depression more common, it can't be disciplinary styles or it wouldn't be across the ages. The violence myth has already been addressed. Gimme that spanking article - I want to slice it. I'm running out of swiss cheese for my sandwich, and there's a snowstorm out. Cheers, Banty |
#69
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Banty wrote:
In article , Stephanie says... Beliavsky wrote: They're getting more praise and kisses, fewer smacks and scoldings. Now ask yourself this: Are children today less aggressive than they were two or three generations ago? Are they nicer? Are they happier? The answer is no. Rates of violence, of depression, and of suicide have gone up, not down. JB: So why haven't the advice-givers noticed that their advice is not having the predicted effects? I think it is because the advice is not really followed. Often times positive discipline is not used at all, but replaced with NO discipline. God I had some unruly kids in my daycare. The conversation needs to be changed from smack or do nothing to include actual effective methods of positive discipline, IMO. I challenge you to go to the library and get and READ the books I mention above. Yep. That article hidden-assumptioned consistent and competent implementation, then post-hoc ergo propter hoc'ed to the desired conclusion. Then mis-tated easily verifiable facts to support it. And the inherent false dilemma of the whole framing of the question, as you noted. How many logic problems can be packed in a single article? Back to parenting - yes, a lot of times there's no discipline; a lot of times what passes for "discipline" is really frustration/anger venting by the parent. Banty Can you say Amen and Alleluhia? There was one family that coaxed, pleaded, cajoled, whined and begged. Until they lost their minds and screamed obsenities. Then they thought there was something wrong with the *kids*. Oy Vay. |
#70
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Chookie wrote: In article , Banty wrote: Correct -- the canonical electrocution method for the pre-school set. I had no idea you called them something else (or why would M$ call their product that?). You can make your (presentation) points with power? Certainly, but I never thought it was just a bit of alliteration. Al la "An Inconvenient Truth". Al la instead of a la? Was that a pun or a Freudian slip? Please don't tell me there's a PP presentation involved in it. Of all the buggy products of the Evil Empire, PP has to be the worst. I call what you call "powerpoints" "electrical outlets". Check alt.home.repair. I'm quite sure I'd have to develop a dictionary before involving myself there. I was reading a Decorator Quiz (from a North American magazine online) a while back and was stumped when asked to define "Pelmet", because none of the answers were right. I can't figure out how building terms, which are often old words, can come to vary so much! Particle board, plasterboard, skirting boards, pelmets, cornices... I'd be worried I was about to do something wrong due to a failure in translation! Heck, I never heard of a pelmet. When I looked it up, I realized it was what I've always called a cornice. Clisby |
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