parenting / discipline books

"Stephanie" wrote in message
. ..
How many people have read them? And of those ofyou who read them, how many
of you found one or more that resonated well enough that you tried to
incorporate thinking and techniques presented therein?

Every time the conversation of spanking comes up in a thread, I get
frustrated at my inability to express effective alternatives whcih I
beleive are totally saving my children and I from extreme unhappiness and
awful behavior. But how could I possibly express in a few short paragraphs
what I have learned in reading my three or four favorite books, especially
since I have to go back and re-read or at least skim them from time to
time when I feel my rudder is pointing me back to my heritage of shame,
fear and punishment.

Do other people share my father-in-laws view that to search out ideas is
to admit to being a crappy parent? And that parenting is to be done by
instinct, by what feels right at the moment? It seems to me that anything
that is worth doing is worth doing thoughtfully. It is not a matter of
mindlessly accepting whatever I read, not would I expect that to happen to
others. I can read that right wing doc whose name escapes me (all that
comes up is Doctor ****stick, whcih I confgess is what my husband calls
him). I can read him and know that I think he is dead wrong. I read
Madilyn Swift, and though her take on the state of parenting is bordering
on rabid, I agree with most of what she says about good parenting and less
good parenting.

I know I read everything there was to read on sleep when my firstborn was
waking up a zillion (seeming) times a night. When I was clueless about
what to do with disipline, I did the same. I chose the subset of reading
that makes the most sense to me, that offers the best outcomes of
responsible, empathetic, thoughtful children. I LOVE the possibility of
that outcome compared to the outcome of say, not spitting at the table.
When I questioned the appropriateness of my child's education, I read
books on the different educational philosophies. And on I expect it to go
for some time.

Am I a super freak? Do others of you seek out different ideas out there?
I'll bet you do. Do any of you have to almost completely replace your own
upbringing with another set of tools and techniques? Am I the only one who
gets frustrated sometimes by an inability to express in a paragraph or two
in response to some posts on this board? Discipline, sleep, behavior,
sometimes nursing issues... none of these issues that arise seem very easy
to answer in a usenet post.

To be honest, although I've read a lot of parenting books I generally have
found them not particularly helpful.
A lot of the books I could categorise into groups:
"Smug" (When I had this problem I solved much better than anyone else....)
"Impractical" (Sam could be so difficult when we were out, so I didn't leave
the house for 6 years)
"easy children" (This worked so well for my children, but I'm not sure what
you do if they challenge it, so I'm ignoring that possibility)
"ineffective" (just explain to little Billy that eating a packet of crisps
before dinner will spoil his appetite for dinner and he'll understand and
not ask again)
"rigid" (put them down to sleep the first night, and they'll cry for 40
minutes then sleep through, after that they'll not even cry from day 3. If
this doesn't work you've done it wrong and are a hopeless parent)

I prefer here because there is a wealth of different experience. Also I know
the people here and how they will respond. There are people who will cry to
every sleep problem, "co-sleep" or to every school problem "home-school", or
will quote their pet phrase each time. But because you get a group of ideas,
it gives you much more to work on, and if you know that someone always
suggests a particularl remedy for a range of problems you can put it lower
down than the same suggestion from someone who doesn't always say the same.
And you get to know whose advice you really rely on, and those who you
ignore (anyone from Family KB) ;-P
Also it being a discussion, you can say "how did this part worked", "what do
you do if", "how many times did you" rather than the advice being laid down
with no modification for the individual case.

However the books don't usually have layers of Spam to wade through I
guess...

Debbie

I've read quite a few parenting books, especially about my high needs third
child. I've also subscribed to many of the parenting magazines. There have
been lots of good ideas, but none that I can put into practice everyday
because yes I had to do a 180 on how I was raised. Some things have come
easily for me, but others have not. Change is hard. For me, it's one foot
forward, two steps back. I learned the most through this group though. I
have found real life experience is better than a book, especially those with
high maintenance, angry kids. I have been extremely curious about the
discipline book you always recommend, but I have not gotten around to
getting it yet. When the girls were babies, I read Dr. Spock, and that was
mostly for direct care rather than a parenting philosophy. I pretty much
went by my instincts when they were babies. I didn't find parenting a baby
hard, it's now that they are older and teenagers that I find it the most
perplexing.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Stephanie" wrote in message
. ..
How many people have read them? And of those ofyou who read them, how many
of you found one or more that resonated well enough that you tried to
incorporate thinking and techniques presented therein?

Every time the conversation of spanking comes up in a thread, I get
frustrated at my inability to express effective alternatives whcih I
beleive are totally saving my children and I from extreme unhappiness and
awful behavior. But how could I possibly express in a few short paragraphs
what I have learned in reading my three or four favorite books, especially
since I have to go back and re-read or at least skim them from time to
time when I feel my rudder is pointing me back to my heritage of shame,
fear and punishment.

Do other people share my father-in-laws view that to search out ideas is
to admit to being a crappy parent? And that parenting is to be done by
instinct, by what feels right at the moment? It seems to me that anything
that is worth doing is worth doing thoughtfully. It is not a matter of
mindlessly accepting whatever I read, not would I expect that to happen to
others. I can read that right wing doc whose name escapes me (all that
comes up is Doctor ****stick, whcih I confgess is what my husband calls
him). I can read him and know that I think he is dead wrong. I read
Madilyn Swift, and though her take on the state of parenting is bordering
on rabid, I agree with most of what she says about good parenting and less
good parenting.

I know I read everything there was to read on sleep when my firstborn was
waking up a zillion (seeming) times a night. When I was clueless about
what to do with disipline, I did the same. I chose the subset of reading
that makes the most sense to me, that offers the best outcomes of
responsible, empathetic, thoughtful children. I LOVE the possibility of
that outcome compared to the outcome of say, not spitting at the table.
When I questioned the appropriateness of my child's education, I read
books on the different educational philosophies. And on I expect it to go
for some time.

Am I a super freak? Do others of you seek out different ideas out there?
I'll bet you do. Do any of you have to almost completely replace your own
upbringing with another set of tools and techniques? Am I the only one who
gets frustrated sometimes by an inability to express in a paragraph or two
in response to some posts on this board? Discipline, sleep, behavior,
sometimes nursing issues... none of these issues that arise seem very easy
to answer in a usenet post.

Thanks

S

Welches wrote:
"Stephanie" wrote in message
. ..
How many people have read them? And of those ofyou who read them,
how many of you found one or more that resonated well enough that
you tried to incorporate thinking and techniques presented therein?

Every time the conversation of spanking comes up in a thread, I get
frustrated at my inability to express effective alternatives whcih I
beleive are totally saving my children and I from extreme
unhappiness and awful behavior. But how could I possibly express in
a few short paragraphs what I have learned in reading my three or
four favorite books, especially since I have to go back and re-read
or at least skim them from time to time when I feel my rudder is
pointing me back to my heritage of shame, fear and punishment.

Do other people share my father-in-laws view that to search out
ideas is to admit to being a crappy parent? And that parenting is to
be done by instinct, by what feels right at the moment? It seems to
me that anything that is worth doing is worth doing thoughtfully. It
is not a matter of mindlessly accepting whatever I read, not would I
expect that to happen to others. I can read that right wing doc
whose name escapes me (all that comes up is Doctor ****stick, whcih
I confgess is what my husband calls him). I can read him and know
that I think he is dead wrong. I read Madilyn Swift, and though her
take on the state of parenting is bordering on rabid, I agree with
most of what she says about good parenting and less good parenting.

I know I read everything there was to read on sleep when my
firstborn was waking up a zillion (seeming) times a night. When I
was clueless about what to do with disipline, I did the same. I
chose the subset of reading that makes the most sense to me, that
offers the best outcomes of responsible, empathetic, thoughtful
children. I LOVE the possibility of that outcome compared to the
outcome of say, not spitting at the table. When I questioned the
appropriateness of my child's education, I read books on the
different educational philosophies. And on I expect it to go for
some time. Am I a super freak? Do others of you seek out different ideas
out
there? I'll bet you do. Do any of you have to almost completely
replace your own upbringing with another set of tools and
techniques? Am I the only one who gets frustrated sometimes by an
inability to express in a paragraph or two in response to some posts
on this board? Discipline, sleep, behavior, sometimes nursing
issues... none of these issues that arise seem very easy to answer
in a usenet post.
To be honest, although I've read a lot of parenting books I generally
have found them not particularly helpful.
A lot of the books I could categorise into groups:
"Smug" (When I had this problem I solved much better than anyone
else....) "Impractical" (Sam could be so difficult when we were out,
so I didn't leave the house for 6 years)
"easy children" (This worked so well for my children, but I'm not
sure what you do if they challenge it, so I'm ignoring that
possibility) "ineffective" (just explain to little Billy that eating
a packet of crisps before dinner will spoil his appetite for dinner
and he'll understand and not ask again)
"rigid" (put them down to sleep the first night, and they'll cry for
40 minutes then sleep through, after that they'll not even cry from
day 3. If this doesn't work you've done it wrong and are a hopeless
parent)


OMG! I read all of those also! That was the funniest thing I have read in
forever. My favorite book took me a while to get over her rabid tone. But
the underlying message really resondated with me.


I prefer here because there is a wealth of different experience. Also
I know the people here and how they will respond. There are people
who will cry to every sleep problem, "co-sleep" or to every school
problem "home-school", or will quote their pet phrase each time. But
because you get a group of ideas, it gives you much more to work on,
and if you know that someone always suggests a particularl remedy for
a range of problems you can put it lower down than the same
suggestion from someone who doesn't always say the same. And you get
to know whose advice you really rely on, and those who you ignore
(anyone from Family KB) ;-P Also it being a discussion, you can say "how
did this part worked",
"what do you do if", "how many times did you" rather than the advice
being laid down with no modification for the individual case.

However the books don't usually have layers of Spam to wade through I
guess...

Debbie

I have next to me this one book called "Setting Limits, How to Raise
Responsible, Independant Children by Providing CLEAR Boundaries." It goes
into depth of what limits are and why you need them. Yes that is obvious.
But maybe I am dumb, I need this obvious stuff spelled out to me so I can
chew on it. Are your limits hard or soft (not are you mean or nice but are
you consistent or do you waffle). Teaching problem solving skills. I wanted
to do that. But I didn't know how. It was a bit of an eye opener the first
time I realized that my son was not doing what I asked because he did not
fundamentally know what I meant. He heard the words. He was not trying to
misbehave, he just did not have a clue what I wanted him to do. Seeing
myself in the talk, talk, talk, give soft limit (that I did not really
mean), talk, talk, talk, whine, and talk. Get Mad. Dance was illuminating.

I guess for myself, I liked finding a couple of sources that really spelled
out what I already felt in my heart was right. How to Talk So Kids Will
Listen... talks about how some of the things we do wrong and how they set up
the pattern of misbehavior that follows. I was stunned to see myself there.

I guess for myself, I had to get walked step-by-step and try out some of
these things in order to transition from what was a part of me from my own
upbringing something else. I guess I had to keep doing these things that
seemed to work with my child (then later children) until it began to feel
more natural.

It is interesting that many of you don't have the same outlook. I don't know
if writing to a usenet group on the subject itself selects in people who
view this place as useful. And I have found it VERY useful on occaision.

Sue wrote:
I've read quite a few parenting books, especially about my high needs
third child. I've also subscribed to many of the parenting magazines.



I am particularly NOT fond of magazines. No depth. Very sound bitish.

There have been lots of good ideas, but none that I can put into
practice everyday because yes I had to do a 180 on how I was raised.
Some things have come easily for me, but others have not. Change is
hard.


THAT is the very reason that some of these books have been so helpful to me.
I just kept trying to do the things they said. I would review a situation in
my head that happened and think how could I have done it differently. It is
a challenge that will probably never cease.


For me, it's one foot forward, two steps back. I learned the
most through this group though. I have found real life experience is
better than a book, especially those with high maintenance, angry
kids. I have been extremely curious about the discipline book you
always recommend, but I have not gotten around to getting it yet.
When the girls were babies, I read Dr. Spock, and that was mostly for
direct care rather than a parenting philosophy. I pretty much went by
my instincts when they were babies. I didn't find parenting a baby
hard, it's now that they are older and teenagers that I find it the
most perplexing.


I can imagine! I want to maybe lock them in the basement. I have never seen
a book advocating that parenting method though. I might get in trouble with
the law.

I've read various parenting books over the years and ideas from them
got integrated into my parenting style. I don't think either of my
children were particularly challenging. I did spank on a few occasions
when they were little but stopped by the time they were 5.

One idea that was very successful for my kids had a "1-2-3" technique.
You tell the child to stop doing something and say "that's 1". If they
continue, "that's 2". At "that's 3" there's a consequence though I
can't remember now what it is. Occasionally I would start at "that's
2". Astonishingly it still works with my son (17) but mostly as a
signal to him "Mom's serious, better stop".

For teenagers, a very helpful book is "Get Out Of My Life, But First
Could You Drive Me and Cheryl To The Mall?" by Anthony Wolf. I read it
when I got it and reread sections of it periodically. For me I mostly
needed it when my kids got to 16 or so. They're 17 and 20(tomorrow!)
now.

-- Zip

On Feb 25, 11:17*pm, toypup wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:10:32 -0500, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Stephanie wrote:
How many people have read them? And of those ofyou who read them, how many
of you found one or more that resonated well enough that you tried to
incorporate thinking and techniques presented therein?

* *I read them. *I usually pick up at least a little something
from any book that passes the flip-through-it-in-the-bookstore test.
I think it's helpful, though obviously not every technique works
well with every child.

I've read many books and none of them really did much until out of
desparation, I tried one book's 5 week program and found that it changed
everything. *It really truly worked for me. *It is the only book I would
ever say changed my life, at least at that time.

So what was the book?

On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 07:53:47 -0800 (PST), Beliavsky wrote:

On Feb 25, 11:17*pm, toypup wrote:
On Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:10:32 -0500, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Stephanie wrote:
How many people have read them? And of those ofyou who read them, how many
of you found one or more that resonated well enough that you tried to
incorporate thinking and techniques presented therein?

* *I read them. *I usually pick up at least a little something
from any book that passes the flip-through-it-in-the-bookstore test.
I think it's helpful, though obviously not every technique works
well with every child.

I've read many books and none of them really did much until out of
desparation, I tried one book's 5 week program and found that it changed
everything. *It really truly worked for me. *It is the only book I would
ever say changed my life, at least at that time.

So what was the book?

I've recommended it before. It is "parenting the Strong-Willed Child." It
is a 5 week program, but I saw results the first week and improvement each
week. That's how it motivated me to keep going. Just before starting, DS
was in a very difficult phase, with major tantrums that lasted hours, room
being torn apart, etc. We were punishing and then punishing his reactions
to the punishment (he would tear his room apart because he was sent to his
room, for instance, and we would punish for the resulting damage). It very
quickly stopped when we started the program. I was in heaven.

"Stephanie" wrote in message
. ..
How many people have read them? And of those ofyou who read them, how many
of you found one or more that resonated well enough that you tried to
incorporate thinking and techniques presented therein?

I read Dr. Spock way back when DS18 was a baby, and still think he made a
lot of sense ,but I mostly model my parenting style on my own parents - I
emulated what was positive and dropped what was negative.

Do other people share my father-in-laws view that to search out ideas is to
admit to being a crappy parent? And that parenting is to be done by
instinct, by what feels right at the moment?

Does a great scientist ignore the work others have done? Sure, instinct
is a part of it, but so is building on the experience, research, ideas
of others.

Cheers
Anne

In article , Anne Rogers says...



Do other people share my father-in-laws view that to search out ideas is to
admit to being a crappy parent? And that parenting is to be done by
instinct, by what feels right at the moment?

Does a great scientist ignore the work others have done? Sure, instinct
is a part of it, but so is building on the experience, research, ideas
of others.

Betcha her father in law doesn't read directions either...

Banty