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#1
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Trouble makers?
This has been something I've been battling with for a little while now, and
after a slight 'incident' I think I've had enough. We live in a townhouse complex. There's quite a few kids here as it's a family townhouse area. DS is 7 and there's a number of boys his age. First of all. I know DS is no angel. We have been having some issues with him and his behaviour. I know he's not a perfect little angel that does no wrong. I've witnessed this myself and seen with my own eyes... There's a boy directly next door to us that's maybe a year younger than DS. When together, the boys play very well. Hardly any issues at all. They play nice and if there's any issue, it's mostly 'boys will be boys' and nothing at all major. There's also a small handful of other boys around the same age, and once again, generally speaking, these boys can play fairly well with minimal issues. Even a group of 4 or 5 of them together, nothing major. Now there's this other boy around here. He IS a major trouble maker. Quite frankly, I don't care much for this kid one bit, and I can't speak any better of the parents. I have told DS over and over again to stay away from this kid as he does nothing but cause problems. It's not just DS. When this one kid shows up, no matter who is there, the trouble starts. I was outside having a smoke on the back patio last night and DS was playing with the boy next door and one other boy that I've seen but not too familiar with. This other kid seems like an alright little boy and I've never seen issues with him. The 3 boys are off playing and all is fine. I think once the little guy from next door knocked on the door whining that DS was "trying to throw pine cones at him" - which is whatever, IMO. Again, boys will be boys, for the most part, and I know this same boy next door was more than likely trying to throw pine cones at DS and the others as well - just playing. So... I'm outside on the patio. The 3 boys were playing fine, but I wasn't paying much attention at all to them. Next thing I know, I hear some yelling and shouting. I recognize DS yelling and shouting and a few other people doing the same. I look over the fence to see DS standing kind of at the front of a SUV parked on the road... DS is ON the road (which he's not supposed to be and knows it) and is shouting. In the parking lot, the trouble maker's mom is standing by her station wagon yelling at DS across the parking lot. I walked out of the yard and, ignoring this trouble maker's mom, I called DS and asked him to come here for a minute. He eventually does, and I ask him what's going on. Before DS can even say a word to me, the trouble maker's mom comes towards me yelling and shouting at DS, which gets DS shouting back at her. Normally DS is not one to shout at an adult, but in all honesty, I don't blame him. This woman is just yelling at him, which I also don't think is right. To stand there and yell at kids, and really, I'm actually getting a little ****ed off. I'm ignoring this woman and I ask DS what's going on (again, or maybe by this time it's the 5th time I've asked) and then the woman is yelling at DS again, and DS is yelling something like, "I didn't do that!" at the woman. Then this woman turns to me and said, "Look what he did to my son's shirt!" (yelling and screaming at me) and there's a shirt she's holding up that, to me, looked like a sloppy eater with a plate of spaghetti or ketchup. She's hollering the whole time and tells me DS was throwing tomatos at her son. I'm wondering where the hell DS would randomly find tomatos to throw at someone. DS then keeps saying he didn't do that and it wasn't him. At this point, I'm really NOT caring if he did it or not. I'm actually getting really angry with this woman. I then turned to DS and told him, again (and infront of both this trouble making kid and his mother) that DS is NOT allowed to play with this kid. He's not allowed to talk to him, he needs to stay away. I told DS that if this kid comes around, he needs to tell him to leave or DS needs to just walk away. This woman is just shouting who knows what behind me while I'm talking to DS. DS then says that he, the boy next door and the 3d boy were playing fine until the trouble maker showed up. I then reminded DS, and the other 2 boys, that when this kid shows up, trouble ALWAYS starts. ALWAYS. I told DS that he needs to stay away from kids that aren't nice or are trouble makers. That's when this lady goes nuts again (not that she really even stopped) and says that her boy is NOT a trouble maker, mine is, this other kid is... Every other kid is. I turned to her and told her that these boys all play fine together - and I've seen this myself - but when her kid shows up, something always happens. Someone is always getting hurt or complaining or you name it. I've also found that this trouble maker will show up when some of the kids are playing. HE then does something (kicks someone, hits them with a stick, pushes them, whatever) and that kid will then retaliate and hit or push this kid back. At this point, the trouble maker then runs home to tell his parents, and then then one of the parents come out to yell at the boys that were playing very well before their son shows up causing trouble. This happens EVERY time. Each and every time, not just sometimes or occasionally. Every time. Then the mother says to me that DS was in her house in her basement playing with her son (and I guess some other boys) on Monday. She said DS peed in her dryer that had clothes in it. Peed on her son's clothes. In all honesty, this I do not believe, and I told her that. News of DS in her house is new to me, but still. I don't believe DS peed in her dryer anyways. I reminder this woman that the neighbour 2 doors down from me caught this trouble maker peeing on her front step. At this point, this is when THAT mom turned into a liar and a trouble maker, and while we're on the subject, her son is too. I don't believe either as I know the woman and she's not one to be a trouble maker or liar, and her son is a good kid, again, just your average 6-7 year old, and again, DS and the other boys play fine together. I've seen this trouble maker chase the other boys and actually hit them with sticks or boards or whatever he can find. I've seen him kick others. Last summer the boy next door and DS were playing in the pool. N was outside supervising and they were playing fine. The trouble maker came out of nowhere and wanted to play too. So he got in as well. It wasn't long before N kicked him out of the pool and sent him home. Boys were playing fine then out of nowhere, the trouble maker kicked the next door boy. Just kicked him and canned him pretty good. There was another time that this kid came into my yard and grabbed the garden hose and was spraying other kids playing. I guess it was funny and fine at that point. Then the other boys told him to stop and he wouldn't. Some other kid managed to get the hose from the trouble maker and sprayed him pretty good. This is when the trouble maker ran off home crying. Not 5 minutes later, the dad was at my gate yelling at me because DS sprayed his son with the hose. I saw what had happened, and, for one, it wasn't DS. It was some other boy. I told this dad that it was HIS son that came uninvited into my yard, took MY hose without permission and was spraying the other kids first. I didn't care as no one else seemed to mind on a hot summer day. I told the dad that everything changed when roles were reversed and it was his crybaby son getting back what he was just giving to the others, after they told him to stop, and the dad just went nuts - yelling and screaming like an idiot, saying his son was not allowed to play in the water. I just told the dad that if his son knew he wasn't allowed to get wet, then he should have known he wasn't allowed to get others wet because if you dish it, chances are you will get it served back at you - especially with 6, 7, 8 year old boys. So I'm sorry this is so long. I've just had it with this kid that always seems to cause trouble and the parents that aren't any better. I've told DS over and over to stay away from this kid. When this kid has come to the door, on occasion, I've straight out told him that DS is not allowed to play with him because trouble always starts and DS always gets into some sort of trouble, often over something that really isn't a big deal. It's funny because the other boys in the area all seem to feel the same way as DS... This kid is NOT fun to play with, someone always gets hurt or in trouble and the reason is always this same kid causing trouble. Is there a better way to deal with this?? DS *doesn't* want to play with this boy, but he always seems to come around and will not leave even when asked. |
#2
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Trouble makers?
Kat wrote:
So I'm sorry this is so long. I've just had it with this kid that always seems to cause trouble and the parents that aren't any better. I've told DS over and over to stay away from this kid. As you can see by this point, that isn't going to work. It just isn't. They don't have the social skills to figure out how to get him to leave their group when they're playing outside. They will believe that just this one time it will be ok because he's not being bad right now and they figure they can back out when his behavior becomes unacceptable. This is especially true if all the other boys don't have the same rule. When this kid has come to the door, on occasion, I've straight out told him that DS is not allowed to play with him because trouble always starts and DS always gets into some sort of trouble, often over something that really isn't a big deal. It's funny because the other boys in the area all seem to feel the same way as DS... This kid is NOT fun to play with, someone always gets hurt or in trouble and the reason is always this same kid causing trouble. Is there a better way to deal with this?? DS *doesn't* want to play with this boy, but he always seems to come around and will not leave even when asked. Frankly, the only way to effectively stop it is to have the kids play in your house, to which you control access, or for you to be outside with them while they're playing. This isn't fair, of course, but it's about the only thing that will successfully result in your child not interacting with this other child. You can also take a group of kids to a park/playground outside the other kid's stomping grounds. If the other kid won't behave, and his parents won't ensure he behaves, and your kid and his friends are incapable of leaving or driving him off, then that's about all you're left with. Best wishes, Ericka |
#3
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Trouble makers?
In article cQduk.54587$hx.42591@pd7urf3no, Kat says...
This has been something I've been battling with for a little while now, and after a slight 'incident' I think I've had enough. We live in a townhouse complex. There's quite a few kids here as it's a family townhouse area. DS is 7 and there's a number of boys his age. First of all. I know DS is no angel. We have been having some issues with him and his behaviour. I know he's not a perfect little angel that does no wrong. I've witnessed this myself and seen with my own eyes... There's a boy directly next door to us that's maybe a year younger than DS. When together, the boys play very well. Hardly any issues at all. They play nice and if there's any issue, it's mostly 'boys will be boys' and nothing at all major. There's also a small handful of other boys around the same age, and once again, generally speaking, these boys can play fairly well with minimal issues. Even a group of 4 or 5 of them together, nothing major. Ericka has great advice - you have to look at what you can control. Worst comes to worst, you'll need to always have activities your boy and friends he gets along with to do anytime they're at play. What do the parents of the other boys think of the situation? It may be worth bringing it up to them to see what their perception of the situation is. If everyone is on the same page, wherever the boys are at, and the trouble boy shows up, the boys can to into whichever of their houses are closest. We had to do that in my neighborhood when there was a disturbed slightly older boy that was causing severe problems. But be prepared that they might not have the same perception about it as you do, and even if they do, might just throw their hands up about it and not want to go along with any such plan. Having a rule that your boy calls home whenever he goes into another home would help, if you dont' have that already. I even had a rule that other boys, if they are going to play in my house, call their homes first. Even if they just leave a message. This heads off other problems like the pee-in-dryer story. Finally, completely ignoring the mom of the trouble maker was probably a bad way to go. I understand you want to get the story from your son first; I understand someone yelling and screaming is not one who is good to talk to. But if you say hello and ask for her number, and say you'll call after you see what your son has to say about it, might go a long way. Or maybe not. But completely ignoring just about anyone is pretty sure to **** them off if not completely enrage them. Even if they're someone you don't want to be exchanging numbers with, somethimes you have to hear them out calmly, then say "OK, I got your side of the story; I'll now go home with my son where I can calmly get his accounting of what happened." At the least, they spend their energy out, and they usually calm down. And you hadn't said anything on the order of their being right or anything like that. Worked for me, anyway. Banty |
#4
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Trouble makers?
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Kat wrote: So I'm sorry this is so long. I've just had it with this kid that always seems to cause trouble and the parents that aren't any better. I've told DS over and over to stay away from this kid. As you can see by this point, that isn't going to work. It just isn't. They don't have the social skills to figure out how to get him to leave their group when they're playing outside. They will believe that just this one time it will be ok because he's not being bad right now and they figure they can back out when his behavior becomes unacceptable. This is especially true if all the other boys don't have the same rule. I suspect that this child behaves this way because he is looking for attention and friends. He doesn't seem to have either, and he doesn't know how to get them. When this kid has come to the door, on occasion, I've straight out told him that DS is not allowed to play with him because trouble always starts and DS always gets into some sort of trouble, often over something that really isn't a big deal. It's funny because the other boys in the area all seem to feel the same way as DS... This kid is NOT fun to play with, someone always gets hurt or in trouble and the reason is always this same kid causing trouble. Is there a better way to deal with this?? DS *doesn't* want to play with this boy, but he always seems to come around and will not leave even when asked. When I had this problem with the little boy next door, my instructions to my kindergarten age girl was - if you can't play with him, come inside and play. But don't come running to me to complain. (The little boy was younger and smaller than my child.) A clear rule - stay outside and deal or come inside. She was not allowed to go anyone else's house, and no one came in to our house - partly because I had a year old child who might be napping, but also partly because we had just moved into the neighborhood and we were only going to be there for eight months. When her older sister was that age, we knew the neighbors better, and she could go to one child's house. When this child was a mother, she just stayed outside with her boy when he was outside. He wasn't outside by himself - he was with her and with the mothers of the other children he was playing with. This meant that there was less freedom for the children, but they were supervised. Frankly, the only way to effectively stop it is to have the kids play in your house, to which you control access, or for you to be outside with them while they're playing. This isn't fair, of course, but it's about the only thing that will successfully result in your child not interacting with this other child. You can also take a group of kids to a park/playground outside the other kid's stomping grounds. If the other kid won't behave, and his parents won't ensure he behaves, and your kid and his friends are incapable of leaving or driving him off, then that's about all you're left with. When the little girls that lived next door to us (younger than we were - maybe two and four and always with runny noses) used to come over and poop on our porch because they weren't trained, my mother's solution was not to be at home as much as possible. We were scheduled to the minute even though my mom was a WOHM. |
#5
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Trouble makers?
Rosalie B. wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote: Kat wrote: So I'm sorry this is so long. I've just had it with this kid that always seems to cause trouble and the parents that aren't any better. I've told DS over and over to stay away from this kid. As you can see by this point, that isn't going to work. It just isn't. They don't have the social skills to figure out how to get him to leave their group when they're playing outside. They will believe that just this one time it will be ok because he's not being bad right now and they figure they can back out when his behavior becomes unacceptable. This is especially true if all the other boys don't have the same rule. I suspect that this child behaves this way because he is looking for attention and friends. He doesn't seem to have either, and he doesn't know how to get them. True, and the other option is to supervise closely and befriend the kid. But that's a lot of work and the time to achieve that level of supervision may not be available. When I had this problem with the little boy next door, my instructions to my kindergarten age girl was - if you can't play with him, come inside and play. But don't come running to me to complain. (The little boy was younger and smaller than my child.) A clear rule - stay outside and deal or come inside. The only problem with that in my experience is that kids this age don't have such good judgment. They'll decide to stay outside and deal, but don't have the wherewithal to detect when the whole situation is going south to the point that it's dangerous or results in the other kid's parent running out and screaming at kids (which isn't something the kids should have to deal with, in my opinion). If the behavior of the other child and his parents are really unacceptable, then it's not really an option to allow your child to make the decision to play with him. I think having the option to stay outside and deal is a good policy for a nuisance situation, because it's acceptable for the child to decide it's worth it to put up with the nuisance in order to stay outside and play. Best wishes, Ericka |
#6
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Trouble makers?
Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Rosalie B. wrote: Ericka Kammerer wrote: Kat wrote: So I'm sorry this is so long. I've just had it with this kid that always seems to cause trouble and the parents that aren't any better. I've told DS over and over to stay away from this kid. As you can see by this point, that isn't going to work. It just isn't. They don't have the social skills to figure out how to get him to leave their group when they're playing outside. They will believe that just this one time it will be ok because he's not being bad right now and they figure they can back out when his behavior becomes unacceptable. This is especially true if all the other boys don't have the same rule. I suspect that this child behaves this way because he is looking for attention and friends. He doesn't seem to have either, and he doesn't know how to get them. True, and the other option is to supervise closely and befriend the kid. But that's a lot of work and the time to achieve that level of supervision may not be available. Yes - I wasn't suggesting that the OP do this, but it is probably non-productive to TELL him that he is a bad kid and isn't allowed to play with her kid. That's going to escalate his behavior. When I had this problem with the little boy next door, my instructions to my kindergarten age girl was - if you can't play with him, come inside and play. But don't come running to me to complain. (The little boy was younger and smaller than my child.) A clear rule - stay outside and deal or come inside. The only problem with that in my experience is that kids this age don't have such good judgment. They'll decide to stay outside and deal, but don't have the wherewithal to detect when the whole situation is going south to the point that it's dangerous or results in the other kid's parent running out and screaming at kids (which isn't something the kids should have to deal with, in my opinion). If the behavior of the other In this case, the kid was pretty much neglected. The dad worked second shift and would come home about 2 am, and have dinner with the mom, and then go to bed pretty late and they would both sleep in. The older sister got herself off to school, and this little kid was left more or less on his own. I never had any conversation with his parents or him either, and since I knew my kid was bigger and probably stronger, I was not worried. child and his parents are really unacceptable, then it's not really an option to allow your child to make the decision to play with him. I think having the option to stay outside and deal is a good policy for a nuisance situation, because it's acceptable for the child to decide it's worth it to put up with the nuisance in order to stay outside and play. Yes in the case of the OP, the child isn't capable of making the decision or dealing so I think that child should be absolutely prohibited from going into anyone else's house. He doesn't have to make decisions in that case - he just is not allowed. And/or if he is playing outside it has to be with supervision. The other mom's can take it in turn if they are friends. |
#7
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Trouble makers?
Rosalie B. wrote:
Ericka Kammerer wrote: Rosalie B. wrote: Ericka Kammerer wrote: I suspect that this child behaves this way because he is looking for attention and friends. He doesn't seem to have either, and he doesn't know how to get them. True, and the other option is to supervise closely and befriend the kid. But that's a lot of work and the time to achieve that level of supervision may not be available. Yes - I wasn't suggesting that the OP do this, but it is probably non-productive to TELL him that he is a bad kid and isn't allowed to play with her kid. That's going to escalate his behavior. I agree. Not to mention that given his parents' behavior, perhaps it's not all his fault he is the way he is :-/ I would certainly have compassion for the child, as difficult as he is. There are times that I've dealt with this sort of situation by laying down very, very clear house rules, allowing the kids to play together under close supervision, and booting the kid out of the house the instant the house rules are transgressed. It's a lot to ask of someone to do that, however, and may be risky given the kids' parents' behavior. Who knows what they'll come up with if you send the kid out of your house for breaking the rules?! Still, it's a shame when parents allow their kids to grow up without the skills they'll need to get ahead in life. Best wishes, Ericka |
#8
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Trouble makers?
Hi -- A child who behave consistently in this kind of aggressive manner is a child with problems. He may have innate psychological issues, he may have clueless parents, but it's also possible that he's being abused or neglected at home. Think carefully about how you want to proceed. You can simply supervise your own child far more when outside of the house, or you can supervise this other child with your child and befriend him, or you can see if there's evidence that might make you want to call the police about him for his own protection. (I'm not saying there IS a problem with abuse or neglect, just that you may wish to be alert to the possibility.) Good luck, --Beth Kevles -THE-COM-HERE http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner. NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would like me to reply. |
#9
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Trouble makers?
"Kat" wrote in message news:cQduk.54587$hx.42591@pd7urf3no... This has been something I've been battling with for a little while now, and after a slight 'incident' I think I've had enough. We live in a townhouse complex. There's quite a few kids here as it's a family townhouse area. DS is 7 and there's a number of boys his age. First of all. I know DS is no angel. We have been having some issues with him and his behaviour. I know he's not a perfect little angel that does no wrong. I've witnessed this myself and seen with my own eyes... There's a boy directly next door to us that's maybe a year younger than DS. When together, the boys play very well. Hardly any issues at all. They play nice and if there's any issue, it's mostly 'boys will be boys' and nothing at all major. There's also a small handful of other boys around the same age, and once again, generally speaking, these boys can play fairly well with minimal issues. Even a group of 4 or 5 of them together, nothing major. snip So I'm sorry this is so long. I've just had it with this kid that always seems to cause trouble and the parents that aren't any better. I've told DS over and over to stay away from this kid. When this kid has come to the door, on occasion, I've straight out told him that DS is not allowed to play with him because trouble always starts and DS always gets into some sort of trouble, often over something that really isn't a big deal. It's funny because the other boys in the area all seem to feel the same way as DS... This kid is NOT fun to play with, someone always gets hurt or in trouble and the reason is always this same kid causing trouble. Is there a better way to deal with this?? DS *doesn't* want to play with this boy, but he always seems to come around and will not leave even when asked. I think the first thing I'd do is speak to the other mothers. I'd say "yesterday this occurred. I'd like to get to the bottom of it, as it doesn't sound like my ds to do that sort of thing, and I want to get my facts straight." If the parent was willing to discuss it then, I'd also say that "ds was accused of the drier incident", did your ds say anything about it?" If the other parent feels the same way then you can suggest they play at your place/take them out/take it in turns. However you have got the potential issue if the other parent says "I was told your ds does...." When you're watching he will behave differently, so it's useful to know the other side. I don't think at age 7yo you can expect him to be mature enough to go away from his friends that he was playing nicely with if the other boy turns up. It's not fair really to expect him to, and if he did, then the other lad might find it a great tease to turn up, just to see your ds go off on his own. Debbie |
#10
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Trouble makers?
"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message . .. Kat wrote: So I'm sorry this is so long. I've just had it with this kid that always seems to cause trouble and the parents that aren't any better. I've told DS over and over to stay away from this kid. As you can see by this point, that isn't going to work. It just isn't. They don't have the social skills to figure out how to get him to leave their group when they're playing outside. They will believe that just this one time it will be ok because he's not being bad right now and they figure they can back out when his behavior becomes unacceptable. This is especially true if all the other boys don't have the same rule. When this kid has come to the door, on occasion, I've straight out told him that DS is not allowed to play with him because trouble always starts and DS always gets into some sort of trouble, often over something that really isn't a big deal. It's funny because the other boys in the area all seem to feel the same way as DS... This kid is NOT fun to play with, someone always gets hurt or in trouble and the reason is always this same kid causing trouble. Is there a better way to deal with this?? DS *doesn't* want to play with this boy, but he always seems to come around and will not leave even when asked. Frankly, the only way to effectively stop it is to have the kids play in your house, to which you control access, or for you to be outside with them while they're playing. This isn't fair, of course, but it's about the only thing that will successfully result in your child not interacting with this other child. You can also take a group of kids to a park/playground outside the other kid's stomping grounds. If the other kid won't behave, and his parents won't ensure he behaves, and your kid and his friends are incapable of leaving or driving him off, then that's about all you're left with. If this was possible for me, I'd do it. I can't and won't have a bunch of kids playing in my house. This place is just far too small (for even us to live in it, nevermind add some young boys playing in here) and even the yards are all very, very small. DDs also nap during the day, it's just NOT possible (or something I care to even try) to have kids play in here. I can't handle that. I also can't manage a park or similar with my own by myself, nevermind a bunch of kids belonging to other people. Maybe I could try and step out a little more often when DS is outside playing - I normally do random checks to see him and make sure or I do a random call if he is not directly in our outside of the yard. I also will sneak out of the house for 3 mins to walk to the area in this complex that I know DS and the other kids will play soccer or tag (or whatever)... Maybe just doing a check a little more often wouldn't be hard to do, but having kids in here or taking them outside is just... Well, that just makes my head spin and hurt lol Best wishes, Ericka |
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