Men who marry Single Mothers are Chumps !

In article ,
says...

"Sky KIng" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,
says...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:42:51 -0400, "Zoe"
scribbled:

I stand corrected - I actually that "more often than not men are
the
pathetic losers who cause women to be single mothers. That's not
sexist.


LOL...its within the women's power to NOT get pregnant...they have
better birth control choices then do men and they have more pre-birth
and post-birth choices. Give men just the same post-birth choices
unless you are a sexist and you think women deserve special treatment
and laws just for them.

If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregnant, he should use a condom.
Is that complicated? If he does that then there is no issue of
post-pregnancy choices.

Nice try at sidestepping the issue...women have a clear post-birth
choice and that is to legally abandon the child NO questions
asked...just give any father that same exact right..unless you are a
sexist and you like special rights just for women. Women's birth
control is more effective..nice of you to put all the responsibility
on the man though...ONLY women get pregnant and I would tell any
daughter I had to make sure she took care of her own birth control.



Uhm, yes, it's very sexist. On what do you base this claim?

I also like the way you ignored my last paragraph where I talked
about
single fathers. See the below paragraph.

It's usenet. There is no requirement to respond to every part of a
post. Most often, someone who's in agreement with you will not
necessarily respond to that statement.

Nan

"Betsy" wrote in message
...

"Zoe" wrote in message
news

"Sky KIng" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,

says...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:42:51 -0400, "Zoe"
scribbled:

I stand corrected - I actually that "more often than not men
are
the
pathetic losers who cause women to be single mothers. That's not
sexist.


LOL...its within the women's power to NOT get pregnant...they have
better birth control choices then do men and they have more
pre-birth
and post-birth choices. Give men just the same post-birth choices
unless you are a sexist and you think women deserve special
treatment
and laws just for them.

If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregnant, he should use a
condom.
Is that complicated? If he does that then there is no issue of
post-pregnancy choices.



WRONG!! Condoms are not 100% protection against pregnancy. There is
only
one method of birth control that is 100% accurate and that is
abstinence.
Although I agree on the topic, if men are going to have sex, they should
be
responsible for the consequences of that action.

Unlike women......who don't have to be? How very sexist of you



Uhm, yes, it's very sexist. On what do you base this claim?

I also like the way you ignored my last paragraph where I
talked
about
single fathers. See the below paragraph.

It's usenet. There is no requirement to respond to every part of
a
post. Most often, someone who's in agreement with you will not
necessarily respond to that statement.

Nan

"Byron Canfield" wrote in message news:GLzVc.199868$eM2.16412@attbi_s51 ...
"Lee" wrote in message
m ...
"Zoe" wrote in message
...
No one
understands what being a single mother is until they experienced
it.

So? This method of refutation is dropped by most after their
sophomore year of College.

Valid, accurate criticisms can be levied by persons who have never
been in the situation they are critiquing.

I am a man, but I can validly criticize women who chose poorly and
then have a child by their poorly chosen man.

On the other hand, whether one has been in the situation or not, the data is
not available from which to draw the conclusion that one group, in total, or
the other, consists of "chumps" or "losers" as the originator of this thread
asserted.


Almost every woman who gets pregnant wants to get pregnant because
they act in a manner that does not preclude pregnancy.

Every time.

See above.


If I were a woman and I did not want to get pregnant -

I would not have unprotected sex.
I would be on the pill.
I would have the Ru-486 in my medicine cabinet.
I would know where to get an abortion.
I would know where to give up a baby for adoption.

There are 13 or 14 ways to not become a mother.


And there you DO put yourself in the position of judging something for which
you have not the frame of reference.

In short - I disagree. Accurate assessments can be made by those who
have dissimilar frames for reference. It happens millions of times a
day, accurately, precisely and truthfully, all over the world.

If your intent is that I must have the frame of reference in order to
judge something, I disagree in the strongest possible fashion.

My OP states that clearly.

As one example, a person does not have to be a civil engineer to make
the accurate judgment that 'Bouncing Gertie' over the Tacoma Narrows
was an engineering failure.

You exhibit Fascistic tendencies, in the modern usage of the word.

i.e. A Fascist is someone who's pov is held above all others and their
standards are the ultimate standards to use for a given situation -
like your apparent insistence that I must have the frame of reference
of someone I am validly critiquing.

IOW you reserve the right to ignore criticism based upon dissimilar
frames of reference. How convenient for you.

BTW your opinion will have no effect upon my judgments.
I can judge all I want, and most of my judgments are very accurate and
precise and truthful.




I also like the way you ignored my last paragraph where I talked
about
single fathers. See the below paragraph.

I'm also aware
that there are single fathers out there who are doing the same job as
single
mothers and should be commended just as well. I'll also say this -
courts
more often than not side with the mother on custody issues and this
is
not
always right either.

80% of custody is awarded to mommy.

Your post is another example of people in denial or being plain stupid.

You cite no facts to back up your 80% figure,

These facts are common knowledge. But I will indulge your lack of
initiative.

http://www.menweb.org/throop/custody...s/whoGets.html

77% mommy, 23% joint.

I was incorrect - mommy gets custody 91.5% of the time.

and then you insult the poster
for her paragraph

I posted this : "Your post..."

I am referring to her post, not the aforementioned paragraph. That is
your comprehension bias kicking in.

that was in agreement with your assertion. And you're
calling HER plain stupid?

For referring to "I stand corrected - I actually (said) that "more
often than not men are the pathetic losers who cause women to be
single mothers. That's not sexist.""

Yes, her statement is stupid.
Most men who want to be part of their children's lives *are* if the
mother allows it. The 'Deadbeat Dad' phenomenon is blown way out for
proportion - most men want to be fathers to their kids.

http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/baddadmyth2.htm
"Most divorced dads have more contact with their kids than was
previously believed, he says. A 1983 study based at the University of
Pennsylvania reported that only 49 percent of fathers had contact with
their children within the preceding year. But Braver found that 90
percent had contact by either parent's account. Five out of six
fathers living in the same town three years after the divorce reported
weekly contact"

Bravers 1999 study found that more than 50% see their children.
So her statement is false, biased, sexist and stupid.

http://www.acfc.us/reports/pdfs/DTWS...tdadcanard.pdf

Thus her refusal to acknowledge the truth is either 1) Denial or 2)
stupidity.
I stand by my post. She is either in denial or stupid.
Additionally, insults are not false - they are impolite.
Is what I posted true? Is she ignorant or in denial WRT who is
responsible for single motherhood and child custody?


Why do women get pregnant? Because they want to.

See above, regarding judging things for which you have no frame of
reference.

Another example:

Is there any one over the age of 15 who lives in North America who
does not know about AIDS?

Q: Then why has anyone become infected since 1990?
A: They behave stupidly.

That contradicts your prior assertion that it is by conscious choice.

It does not.
Are you stupid?
Read for comprehension.

You appear to equate 'behaving stupidly' with a non-conscious choice.

People who get AIDS behave stupidly i.e. make bad choices, and those
choices result in HIV infection.
Those conscious choices - to bareback or not for example - result in
infection.

Women who 'accidentally get' pregnant also make bad choices by not
planning and being irrational wrt birth control.
They consciously chose stupidly, and results bear this out.


Do you bother to read what you write before you hit the send button? Geez!

You are condescending, and inaccurate.

-Lee.

"P. Fritz" wrote in message
...

"Betsy" wrote in message
...

"Zoe" wrote in message
news

"Sky KIng" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,

says...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:42:51 -0400, "Zoe"
scribbled:

I stand corrected - I actually that "more often than not
men
are
the
pathetic losers who cause women to be single mothers. That's
not
sexist.


LOL...its within the women's power to NOT get pregnant...they have
better birth control choices then do men and they have more
pre-birth
and post-birth choices. Give men just the same post-birth choices
unless you are a sexist and you think women deserve special
treatment
and laws just for them.

If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregnant, he should use a
condom.
Is that complicated? If he does that then there is no issue of
post-pregnancy choices.



WRONG!! Condoms are not 100% protection against pregnancy. There is
only
one method of birth control that is 100% accurate and that is
abstinence.
Although I agree on the topic, if men are going to have sex, they
should
be
responsible for the consequences of that action.

Unlike women......who don't have to be? How very sexist of you



Whoops! I forgot a word. Should have read (my fault for not proof-reading)
"they should be equally responsible..." What I meant was BOTH parties
should be held accountable. It's only fair.



Uhm, yes, it's very sexist. On what do you base this claim?

I also like the way you ignored my last paragraph where I
talked
about
single fathers. See the below paragraph.

It's usenet. There is no requirement to respond to every part
of
a
post. Most often, someone who's in agreement with you will not
necessarily respond to that statement.

Nan

"denanson" Dennis@Large .ie wrote in message
...

"Betsy" wrote in message

So you are saying, you make no effort whatsoever to allow your child to
see
his father? You have made no attempt to contact your child's father for
visitation? I know I had issues with my son's father, and he made
attempts
to NOT see his child for periods of time, but when he called, my son
went
with his dad. When my son wanted to talk to Daddy, I called him up.
When
my ex-husband decided to terminate his parental rights, because of other
legal issues, I was as honest as I could be to my son. He was six years
old
at the time. I do not believe that lying to your child is appropriate.
I
don't mean telling him the cold hard truth, but something he can
understand.
I told my son, "Daddy has some problems right now, and decided that he
couldn't visit with you for awhile." He accepted that. The fact
remains,
my son got the truth without being told, "Daddy doesn't want you
anymore,"
or "You weren't important enough in Daddy's life," or whatever
perceptions
I
had at the time. This wasn't and isn't about ME it's about my child.
Please bear that in mind; it's better to work toward the best interest
of
your child than your own personal angry agenda.

Betsy, you should have left this in soc.men as well.It may have re-assured
some of the sceptics there that not all women are the same ;-)

Dennis


Good point, I didn't think of that. I don't like to cross post if I can
avoid it. :-)

Betsy

"Betsy" wrote in message
...

"Zoe" wrote in message
news

"Sky KIng" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,

says...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:42:51 -0400, "Zoe"
scribbled:

I stand corrected - I actually that "more often than not men
are
the
pathetic losers who cause women to be single mothers. That's not
sexist.


LOL...its within the women's power to NOT get pregnant...they have
better birth control choices then do men and they have more pre-birth
and post-birth choices. Give men just the same post-birth choices
unless you are a sexist and you think women deserve special treatment
and laws just for them.

If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregnant, he should use a
condom.
Is that complicated? If he does that then there is no issue of
post-pregnancy choices.



WRONG!! Condoms are not 100% protection against pregnancy. There is only
one method of birth control that is 100% accurate and that is abstinence.
Although I agree on the topic, if men are going to have sex, they should
be
responsible for the consequences of that action.

Of course condoms are not 100% protection but they're like 99%. But
thanks for jumping up and pointing that out. I really love the way this
newgroup is full of vicious bitter people that just love to jump on anything
anyone says. I really like the way you put the word "wrong" in big capitals
even though you admit you agree with my sentiment that men should be
responsible if they're going to have sex.

As for this newsgroup - wow, you guys are one of the most sanctimounous,
hostile groups I've come across in a long time. Jumping all over each other
at the smallest scent of blood - judging about why and how women get
pregnant, how they should deal with their children and their ex's.

Well, at least I know now why someone might have come up with the
subject of this thread - they probably read some of the things you women
were writing in this group.

Anyway - it's been a slice - and for all of you who are enraged by this
post - don't bother replying to it because I won't be reading your replies.
I think I'll go find some nicer people in, say, maybe alt.flame or
something.

"Sky KIng" wrote in message
l.net...
In article ,
says...

"Sky KIng" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,

says...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:42:51 -0400, "Zoe"
scribbled:

I stand corrected - I actually that "more often than not men
are
the
pathetic losers who cause women to be single mothers. That's not
sexist.


LOL...its within the women's power to NOT get pregnant...they have
better birth control choices then do men and they have more pre-birth
and post-birth choices. Give men just the same post-birth choices
unless you are a sexist and you think women deserve special treatment
and laws just for them.

If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregnant, he should use a
condom.
Is that complicated? If he does that then there is no issue of
post-pregnancy choices.

Nice try at sidestepping the issue...women have a clear post-birth
choice and that is to legally abandon the child NO questions
asked...just give any father that same exact right..unless you are a
sexist and you like special rights just for women. Women's birth
control is more effective..nice of you to put all the responsibility
on the man though...ONLY women get pregnant and I would tell any
daughter I had to make sure she took care of her own birth control.

And women only get pregnant by male sperm. At least, for now.

And yes - I'm VERY sexist and think that all women should have special
rights. Like, for instance, to make the father take some responsibility for
a child he helped create, at least financially or otherwise. I wouldn't
worry though, I doubt very much that anyone want to **** you anyway. You
can always donate to a sperm bank though - and then you'll be anonymous and
won't have to contribute. Then again, you can just go find a tree somewhere
and get the same job done there.

"Zoe" wrote in message
. ..

"Betsy" wrote in message
...

"Zoe" wrote in message
news

"Sky KIng" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,

says...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:42:51 -0400, "Zoe"
scribbled:

I stand corrected - I actually that "more often than not men
are
the
pathetic losers who cause women to be single mothers. That's not
sexist.


LOL...its within the women's power to NOT get pregnant...they have
better birth control choices then do men and they have more
pre-birth
and post-birth choices. Give men just the same post-birth choices
unless you are a sexist and you think women deserve special
treatment
and laws just for them.

If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregnant, he should use a
condom.
Is that complicated? If he does that then there is no issue of
post-pregnancy choices.



WRONG!! Condoms are not 100% protection against pregnancy. There is
only
one method of birth control that is 100% accurate and that is
abstinence.
Although I agree on the topic, if men are going to have sex, they should
be
responsible for the consequences of that action.

Of course condoms are not 100% protection but they're like 99%. But
thanks for jumping up and pointing that out. I really love the way this
newgroup is full of vicious bitter people that just love to jump on
anything
anyone says. I really like the way you put the word "wrong" in big
capitals
even though you admit you agree with my sentiment that men should be
responsible if they're going to have sex.

As for this newsgroup - wow, you guys are one of the most
sanctimounous,
hostile groups I've come across in a long time. Jumping all over each
other
at the smallest scent of blood - judging about why and how women get
pregnant, how they should deal with their children and their ex's.

Well, at least I know now why someone might have come up with the
subject of this thread - they probably read some of the things you women
were writing in this group.

Anyway - it's been a slice - and for all of you who are enraged by
this
post - don't bother replying to it because I won't be reading your
replies.
I think I'll go find some nicer people in, say, maybe alt.flame or
something.




Still don't think she gets it. This started as a cross post, didn't start
by a regular poster to alt.support.single-parents. Ah well, bye bye.

On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:42:51 -0400, "Zoe"
scribbled:

As for this newsgroup - wow, you guys are one of the most sanctimounous,
hostile groups I've come across in a long time. Jumping all over each other
at the smallest scent of blood - judging about why and how women get
pregnant, how they should deal with their children and their ex's.

Well, at least I know now why someone might have come up with the
subject of this thread - they probably read some of the things you women
were writing in this group.

Anyway - it's been a slice - and for all of you who are enraged by this
post - don't bother replying to it because I won't be reading your replies.
I think I'll go find some nicer people in, say, maybe alt.flame or
something.

LOL! !!!!!!!! That's entertainment , Damn I love reading this group......much
better .
Now off to my AA meeting to find someone to adopt my granddaughter !
'Cause there is no way in hell "I" could ever help my teenage daughter raise
her baby while she finishes school , what kind of parent would do such a thing
? sheeesh !

"Zoe" wrote in message
. ..

"Betsy" wrote in message
...

"Zoe" wrote in message
news

"Sky KIng" wrote in message
.net...
In article ,

says...
On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:42:51 -0400, "Zoe"
scribbled:

I stand corrected - I actually that "more often than not
men
are
the
pathetic losers who cause women to be single mothers. That's
not
sexist.


LOL...its within the women's power to NOT get pregnant...they have
better birth control choices then do men and they have more
pre-birth
and post-birth choices. Give men just the same post-birth choices
unless you are a sexist and you think women deserve special
treatment
and laws just for them.

If a man doesn't want a woman to get pregnant, he should use a
condom.
Is that complicated? If he does that then there is no issue of
post-pregnancy choices.



WRONG!! Condoms are not 100% protection against pregnancy. There is
only
one method of birth control that is 100% accurate and that is
abstinence.
Although I agree on the topic, if men are going to have sex, they
should
be
responsible for the consequences of that action.

Of course condoms are not 100% protection but they're like 99%. But
thanks for jumping up and pointing that out. I really love the way this
newgroup is full of vicious bitter people that just love to jump on
anything
anyone says. I really like the way you put the word "wrong" in big
capitals
even though you admit you agree with my sentiment that men should be
responsible if they're going to have sex.

As for this newsgroup - wow, you guys are one of the most
sanctimounous,
hostile groups I've come across in a long time. Jumping all over each
other
at the smallest scent of blood - judging about why and how women get
pregnant, how they should deal with their children and their ex's.

Still clueless I see.........don't let the door hit you in the ass on the
way out.


Well, at least I know now why someone might have come up with the
subject of this thread - they probably read some of the things you women
were writing in this group.

Anyway - it's been a slice - and for all of you who are enraged by
this
post - don't bother replying to it because I won't be reading your
replies.
I think I'll go find some nicer people in, say, maybe alt.flame or
something.

YAWN