Choices, choices, choices -- but only for women

If you see no reason...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
As a matter of fact...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
And now we get a peek at the ...

Ronni wrote:

"AZ Astrea" wrote in message
...

"Ronni" wrote in message
news
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

Just to clarify this girl I talked about from the beginning
was
with
her
babys dad for nearly 4 years. They met in high school and
were
together
for
quite a while, she thought he would be agood dad when she
found
out
she
was
pregnant, you never truly know anyone until you live with
them.
The
mistake
she made was loving and trusting him.

This may come as a surprise to you, but you are not the first
woman
who
has
had a child out of wedlock to come in here and pretend you are
a
"friend"
of
the "mother."

You know way too many details about your "friends" lover, her
pregnancy,
her
child's challenges, and her child's current situation to be
anything
other
than the real mother.

It's time to quit paying the games and be honest about your
situation.
And
admit you personally made some bad decisions about loving a
man
and
trusting
him until you became pregnant.

The people here are very tolerant and supportive of men and
women
who
find
themselves in need of advice.


Everyone here has done nothing but belittled me due to my
opinions
etc.
If I came here asking for advice I would be told that I should
have
had
an
abortion--or I shouldve known the dad would not be there--Yes
the
situations
is
my own--So I have been called a slut, a child abuser and so
on....
And yes I made very bad decisions when I was younger--as you
said--loving
and trusting a man that would never be there for his child. I
have
reasons
for not stating the truth that
I am the mother, ones you wouldnt understand.
----------------
I don't think you're a 'slut' or a child abuser or anything else.
People
often do make bad choices with regards to a partner especially
when
they
are
young. It's a very sad situation you are dealing with but I hope
you
can
figure out what is best for your child and move on with your life.

We have moved on it just gripes me to no end that a parent, any
parent,
can
be like this.
------------

Tell me this--if PA's child support system is so agressive as
stated
in
another
posting tell me why my ex owes me nearly $2,000, tell me why he
was
wage
attached
after finding out that he lies about his income, tell me why
before
the
wage
attachment it
took nearly 6 years for them to 'catch on' that he wasnt paying,
since
the
wage attachment there has been 1 payment---Tell me why for over
6
years
this
man gets away with not
paying child support and nothing is done----FYI he is self
employed
so
he
still, even after wage attachment, would be responsible for
sending
his
own
payments, and I DO know what he makes (he is on a set salary to
himself
beside business profits in the bank) In this case, even if it is
the
only
case in the world (which I am sure it is not) the CS system is
working
for
the NCP not the CP.....

-----------------
Do you know what type of business set-up he has? Is it a large
enough
business that it is incorporated? Do you know if there are a lot
of
employees?

His dad, brother, and him are partners. They have a few employees
but I
do
not know how many any more. I know he just hired 3 new ones
recently.

I'm asking these things because if he receives a 'salary' it can
still be garnished. You may have to go back to court on your own
to
bring
contempt charges against him if the DA won't do it for you. Or
frequently
bugging the DA may get them going on it. And like Bob said it
takes
the
arrearage to get to $2,500 for the license revocations to kick in.

The only thing is, is it really worth it? After all do you really
want
this
guy involved in your life if he just keeps going in and out
whenever
he
feels like it? If you really need the money then go for it. If
you
are
using it as a way to try to keep the father involved I don't know
if I
would
bother. If the father does come around whenever he wants and only
when he
feels like playing daddy then yes I would pursue it if I were you.
As for your child, he really can survive without a dad. No, it's
not
an
ideal situation. But if he really is harming your son by
being/not
being
there then it would be best if he was just not around. Do you
have
any
kind
of communication with him?

I used to, last time we talked he told me that he thinks more of his
neice
(who grew up without a dad and my sons dad kind of filled in that
role)
is
more of a daughter to him then my son will ever be his---even though
my
son



************************************************** **************************
*
is his biological son! Sorry, but I punched him in the mouth...that
ticked


************************************************** **************************
*

home environment that "has nothing to do" with junior's (unacceptable)
learned behaviours that got him labeled...and maybe a hint at what
kept
dad away in the beginning.

This was about 4 months ago #1---#2 one incident doesn't reflect home
life.
My son wasn't there it was just his father and I. His father had been
drinking and I lost my control for a moment.


me off to no end...and I will never get over that as a mother--for
any
parent to say sucha thing disgusts me.

Can you talk to him about this?

I can't talk to him anymore...I tried talking for nearly 6
years---well
about 5 1/2---it's like talking to a brick wall.

Don't you mean more like pounding your head....er, fist....against a
brick wall?

No, I don't do that.

If he won't
talk to you then do your talking to the DA and let them take it
from
there,
(if they will).
In spite of my being a hard ass I really do understand and
appreciate
your
circumstance. I just didn't think you had ever thought things out
completely and were thinking that a court could order this guy to
be a
dad,
which they can't.

~AZ~

I know they can't order him to be a dad, and frankly, he doesnt
deserve
to
be a dad but it gripes me that he can just walk away from a life
like
that.

And it's just a crying shame that you can't beat him into
submission...

So I hit him once for making a inexcusable comment about his own son and
now
you think I have anger problems? I assure you I do not.

Instead of sending support, or even sending a card or calling, he
sits
in a
bar--I sware on my life he is in the bar 6-7 days a week--I think
the
bar he
used to go to sundays is closed down now...Weekends he goes to
bands, $5
and
$4 a drink---then buys for his friends. It is sickening that he can
do
that
and turn around and claim he has no money to pay child support.
~~Ronni

It is sickening how many people can accept a woman punching a man in
the
mouth just because she's "only a woman". How many times have you done
this to him?

once

How many times has your son witnessed your physical abuse
of others?

only ever happened once and that was between his father an dI and my son
wasnt there

Are you aware there are states where his witnessing such
things is legally defined as child abuse?

I dont have to worry about that.

Have you sought out
counseling for your anti-social behaviours...or are you convinced that
yours are also a "medical condition"???

Nope. I dont have a condition I got mad once and acted on it before
thinking
about it.

By the way, your "ex" probably won't take you up on your offer of
"signing away" his CS responsibility because you *C*A*N* *N*O*T* sign
away something the state says is owed to your child. Even if you did
and kept your end of the deal, guess what would happen if you ever had
to apply for any state aid for you and/or his (former) son?

What, you want us to believe you're abusive AND ignorant?

GEEEZZZZ you truly read more into things than there are
I hit someone once and now im abusive----I'm willing to bet you never
got
mad in your life....;-) You never hit anything, not evena fly with a
swatter ;-)

...no. I have never gotten angry and punched somebody in the face.
Never done it under ANY condition.
You insult our integrity when you
compare swatting a fly with hitting another person in the face.

It does compare. If me hitting my ex over an ignorant comment about my son
can be compared to my raising my son then it can be compared to swatting a
fly. And to set one thing straight, I will do anything for my children. I
will stick of for my children to ANYONE who makes such comments about them,
comments that would be hurtful toward them. Sure it wasnt the right thing to
do, but its not right that he treats my son like this either.
See, a fly buzzes around your head for a few minutes and you get irritated
and swat it. So I got iritated and swatted my ex. ONE TIME I dont insult
everyones integrity, if I were to insult anything it is your hatred toward
someone in a situation simply because you read to much into it.

....to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone ONE time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

You know this conversation is getting really anoying. I understand children
have problems, but I thought that his list was about child support. Sorry
for my feelings.
Angel
"Ronni" wrote in message
...

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.
In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does. And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child. The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

My boy hasn't established an understanding of consequences yet. He doesnt
think ahead at the point where he is doing something he knows he shouldnt
be or acting in a manner he shouldnt be .... while undergoing the
consequence,
say a time out or I unplug the playstation and put it away then he will
say
he
didn't mean to not listen or he didnt mean to act that way. His doctor has
been
'looking' (if you will) for the right medicine and dose for nearly a year.
All
the therapy hasn't seemed to teach him much (consequences for example is
one
thing we talk about alot because my son doesnt seem to understand the
concept) Which, obviously, comes witht he implulsiveness of the ADHD.
He is doing much better, now on 54mg of Concerta and 1/2 of a tablet of
Clonidine,
but he still isnt at the point that the school would call 'acceptable
behavior'. We have worked our way through about 5 different doses of
Ritalin, 1 dose of Adderall and I
insisted he be taken off it immediatly as it made him act out more, and
this
is his 5th dose of Concerta. He was even on 45mg Concerta with 5mg of
Ritalin until recently. When the doc added the Clonidine (Im working from
memory here on that spelling) he said we will see till his next
appointment
how the Clonidine works and maybe add more Ritalin later. The dose of
Concerta is already over the 'recommended' dose for my sons weight. I
really
dont think I will be agreeing to any additions of Ritalin with this dosage
because, although I am not a doctor, I don't think it is safe.
From the beginning I wasnt sure about medicating him because of the things
I
have learned about Ritalin. But the school seemed to insist on it and
stick
up for the results it could bring and here we are today. ADHD ODD is a
long
hard road for the child, parent(s), and anyone else involved. Medicated or
unmedicated, in therapy or not in therapy, diagnosed or not diagnosed. I
had
problems with my sons behavior and attitude etc for 3 years before he was
evaluated, and I NEVER heard of ADD, ADHD, or ODD until the school
requested
me to have him evaluated.

Thanks for all your help TM. I plan on speaking with the school tomorrow.
Although I expect to have a phone call by 9am since it is the first day
back
from vacation and a difference in the 'schedule' again. It seems he has
'off
days' when their is a drastic change like that.

Ronni


Mel Gamble wrote in message
...
So you admit ...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
Yeah, right...

Ronni wrote:

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
"Ronni" wrote in message
...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

Just to clarify this girl I talked about from the
beginning was
with
her
babys dad for nearly 4 years. They met in high school
and
were
together
for
quite a while, she thought he would be agood dad when
she
found
out
she
was
pregnant, you never truly know anyone until you live
with
them.
The
mistake
she made was loving and trusting him.

This may come as a surprise to you, but you are not the
first
woman
who
has
had a child out of wedlock to come in here and pretend you
are a
"friend"
of
the "mother."

You know way too many details about your "friends" lover,
her
pregnancy,
her
child's challenges, and her child's current situation to
be
anything
other
than the real mother.

It's time to quit paying the games and be honest about
your
situation.
And
admit you personally made some bad decisions about loving
a
man
and
trusting
him until you became pregnant.

The people here are very tolerant and supportive of men
and
women
who
find
themselves in need of advice.


Everyone here has done nothing but belittled me due to my
opinions
etc.
If I came here asking for advice I would be told that I
should
have
had
an
abortion--or I shouldve known the dad would not be
there--Yes
the
situations
is
my own--So I have been called a slut, a child abuser and so
on....
And yes I made very bad decisions when I was younger--as you
said--loving
and trusting a man that would never be there for his child.
I
have
reasons
for not stating the truth that
I am the mother, ones you wouldnt understand.

I haven't belittled you, Ronni, although I have questioned
your
knowledge of the child support system in general. I understand
how
difficult it must be for you to be raising an ADHD/ODD child
on
your
own. I would guess that his problems may be fairly severe,
since
he
was hospitalized at such a young age in an effort to find a
diagnosis.
There must be days when you wish you could just run away and
hide.
Especially with the misinformation out there that insists that
better
parenting would "cure" these children.

My sons therapist--which is in one of the top offices in the
area
for
this
type of treatment--told me that my son has one of the worst
cases
of
ADHD
and ODD he has ever seen. He said if he had to guess he thinks
my
son
would
be in the top 2% for severity of symptoms. Sure there are times
I
wished
I
could run away and hide, but unlike my sons dad, I grin and bear
it....(and

...or just punch him in the mouth? I bet you think nothing of a
little
verbal abuse like my daughter's mother throws at the two
"handicapped"
siblings. "Leave me the **** alone, you little retarded *******!
Why
don't you go live with your WONDERFUL father?" probably just rolls
out
of your mouth without you even thinking about it. "No
environmental
factors"...indeed.

You have no idea, seriously. Come live here for a week or two. The
most
verbal abuse I give is 'If you don't (or do) this (or that) right
now
you
will have a time out in the corner to think about what you have
done'
OR

************************************************** *****
'Now you are making me mad, do you need a time out?'
************************************************** *****
... junior gets punished based on YOUR emotions. He should only be
disciplined based on his own actions and that discipline should be
consistent REGARDLESS of your emotional state at the time. It never
ceases to amaze me how many parents think they can get angry and lash
out at their kids, then get all bent out of shape and ask the state
for
help when their kids do the same thing.


or probably the worst
is 'Get off that playstation right now'---

Real verbal abuse there....

It keeps becoming more and more apparent.

AND if you are concerned about your daughters mother (which I am
sure
you
are since you are so concerned about my parenting) then do something
about
it.

Like spending of CS, the state has little concern with what happens to
kids in the houses of those who possess them.

Dont turn her story around and compare her to me. I would never say
such
things and if she asks 'Why don't you go live with your wonderful
father'
then why doesnt she?

Dummy. It's just another hurtful way of punishing her when MOMMY gets
mad - like your threats of "time out" when your boy makes YOU mad.

I think you have so much anger in your own situation that you read
into my
situation (and others) the same anger and problems with your ex and
your
child(ren). No 2 situations are alike, and your exes is most
definitly
nothing like mine.

The similarities are just beginning to emerge. I don't think anyone
here would have guessed 2 weeks ago that you would admit to battery.
Now you admit to basing your son's discipline on your own emotions at
the time (I bet teach would agree with me that if the boy DOES have an
emotional disorder, that's a sure way to send him the wrong message
about how to handle those emotions). Let's just wait and see what
else
you let slip...

Mel Gamble

hope like hell one of these upcoming weekends my sister will
babysit so
I
can get out alone) I havent even gone grocery shopping without
my
kids
in
years! LOL

The problem is that the guy you had your child with does not
want to
be and never did want to be a father. You made a moral choice
to
have
the child--and you defend that moral choice. He made a choice
to not
be a father to this child--you don't approve of or accept his
choice.
You see it as immoral in some way--he does not see it the same
way.
Just as some of the people here do not see the choice you made
to
raise the child alone as wise of moral. Nobody is going to
change
anyone else's mind, and each has a right to his own opinion.
I do understand that the CS money would come in handy, but I
get
the
impression that having dad's support and presence is much more
important to you.

Yes, the money would be very helpful in helping to pay for my
sons
meds.
(he
has asthma also)

Bet he gasps every time you raise your hand an make a fist...

Mel Gamble

But it would be nice to see my son with his dad, like alot
of father/sons do. I asked his dad last year to go with to a
therapy
session
to help get an understanding of my sons illness, he wouldnt.
When
I
aclled
to tell him his son was inthe hospital, his mom, (yes he lievs
at
home)
hung
up on me...3 times!!!


Since dad is obviously not much help day-to-day, do you have a
support
system set up? Do you have people in your life who will watch
your
child and give you time to yourself?

Usually I get a sitter set up, my sister or my fiances sister,
then I
feel
bad and tell them not to worry about coming over.

You absolutely *need* to take
time for yourself, both for your child's sake and for your own
sake.
Is the school implementing the IEP properly?

There idea of IEP is when he has a bad day he will go to a
special
class
with the other special children.

It's very important to
keep on top of this. There should be some sort of group in
your
area
that could help you tap into the help you need as well as show
you
that you aern't alone in living with the difficulties of an
ADHD/ODD
child.

I moved here from another part of the county last year. I don't
know
anyone
except my boyfriends family and my sons teachers. Since I dont
really go
out
its kind of hard getting to know anyone. I met a few people with
my
consulting for Princess House but that is kept pretty much
consultant/hostess/guest relationship.
I need to get out, LOL.

You know this conversation is getting really anoying. I understand children
have problems, but I thought that his list was about child support. Sorry
for my feelings.
Angel
"Ronni" wrote in message
...

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.
In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does. And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child. The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

My boy hasn't established an understanding of consequences yet. He doesnt
think ahead at the point where he is doing something he knows he shouldnt
be or acting in a manner he shouldnt be .... while undergoing the
consequence,
say a time out or I unplug the playstation and put it away then he will
say
he
didn't mean to not listen or he didnt mean to act that way. His doctor has
been
'looking' (if you will) for the right medicine and dose for nearly a year.
All
the therapy hasn't seemed to teach him much (consequences for example is
one
thing we talk about alot because my son doesnt seem to understand the
concept) Which, obviously, comes witht he implulsiveness of the ADHD.
He is doing much better, now on 54mg of Concerta and 1/2 of a tablet of
Clonidine,
but he still isnt at the point that the school would call 'acceptable
behavior'. We have worked our way through about 5 different doses of
Ritalin, 1 dose of Adderall and I
insisted he be taken off it immediatly as it made him act out more, and
this
is his 5th dose of Concerta. He was even on 45mg Concerta with 5mg of
Ritalin until recently. When the doc added the Clonidine (Im working from
memory here on that spelling) he said we will see till his next
appointment
how the Clonidine works and maybe add more Ritalin later. The dose of
Concerta is already over the 'recommended' dose for my sons weight. I
really
dont think I will be agreeing to any additions of Ritalin with this dosage
because, although I am not a doctor, I don't think it is safe.
From the beginning I wasnt sure about medicating him because of the things
I
have learned about Ritalin. But the school seemed to insist on it and
stick
up for the results it could bring and here we are today. ADHD ODD is a
long
hard road for the child, parent(s), and anyone else involved. Medicated or
unmedicated, in therapy or not in therapy, diagnosed or not diagnosed. I
had
problems with my sons behavior and attitude etc for 3 years before he was
evaluated, and I NEVER heard of ADD, ADHD, or ODD until the school
requested
me to have him evaluated.

Thanks for all your help TM. I plan on speaking with the school tomorrow.
Although I expect to have a phone call by 9am since it is the first day
back
from vacation and a difference in the 'schedule' again. It seems he has
'off
days' when their is a drastic change like that.

Ronni


Mel Gamble wrote in message
...
So you admit ...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
Yeah, right...

Ronni wrote:

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
"Ronni" wrote in message
...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

Just to clarify this girl I talked about from the
beginning was
with
her
babys dad for nearly 4 years. They met in high school
and
were
together
for
quite a while, she thought he would be agood dad when
she
found
out
she
was
pregnant, you never truly know anyone until you live
with
them.
The
mistake
she made was loving and trusting him.

This may come as a surprise to you, but you are not the
first
woman
who
has
had a child out of wedlock to come in here and pretend you
are a
"friend"
of
the "mother."

You know way too many details about your "friends" lover,
her
pregnancy,
her
child's challenges, and her child's current situation to
be
anything
other
than the real mother.

It's time to quit paying the games and be honest about
your
situation.
And
admit you personally made some bad decisions about loving
a
man
and
trusting
him until you became pregnant.

The people here are very tolerant and supportive of men
and
women
who
find
themselves in need of advice.


Everyone here has done nothing but belittled me due to my
opinions
etc.
If I came here asking for advice I would be told that I
should
have
had
an
abortion--or I shouldve known the dad would not be
there--Yes
the
situations
is
my own--So I have been called a slut, a child abuser and so
on....
And yes I made very bad decisions when I was younger--as you
said--loving
and trusting a man that would never be there for his child.
I
have
reasons
for not stating the truth that
I am the mother, ones you wouldnt understand.

I haven't belittled you, Ronni, although I have questioned
your
knowledge of the child support system in general. I understand
how
difficult it must be for you to be raising an ADHD/ODD child
on
your
own. I would guess that his problems may be fairly severe,
since
he
was hospitalized at such a young age in an effort to find a
diagnosis.
There must be days when you wish you could just run away and
hide.
Especially with the misinformation out there that insists that
better
parenting would "cure" these children.

My sons therapist--which is in one of the top offices in the
area
for
this
type of treatment--told me that my son has one of the worst
cases
of
ADHD
and ODD he has ever seen. He said if he had to guess he thinks
my
son
would
be in the top 2% for severity of symptoms. Sure there are times
I
wished
I
could run away and hide, but unlike my sons dad, I grin and bear
it....(and

...or just punch him in the mouth? I bet you think nothing of a
little
verbal abuse like my daughter's mother throws at the two
"handicapped"
siblings. "Leave me the **** alone, you little retarded *******!
Why
don't you go live with your WONDERFUL father?" probably just rolls
out
of your mouth without you even thinking about it. "No
environmental
factors"...indeed.

You have no idea, seriously. Come live here for a week or two. The
most
verbal abuse I give is 'If you don't (or do) this (or that) right
now
you
will have a time out in the corner to think about what you have
done'
OR

************************************************** *****
'Now you are making me mad, do you need a time out?'
************************************************** *****
... junior gets punished based on YOUR emotions. He should only be
disciplined based on his own actions and that discipline should be
consistent REGARDLESS of your emotional state at the time. It never
ceases to amaze me how many parents think they can get angry and lash
out at their kids, then get all bent out of shape and ask the state
for
help when their kids do the same thing.


or probably the worst
is 'Get off that playstation right now'---

Real verbal abuse there....

It keeps becoming more and more apparent.

AND if you are concerned about your daughters mother (which I am
sure
you
are since you are so concerned about my parenting) then do something
about
it.

Like spending of CS, the state has little concern with what happens to
kids in the houses of those who possess them.

Dont turn her story around and compare her to me. I would never say
such
things and if she asks 'Why don't you go live with your wonderful
father'
then why doesnt she?

Dummy. It's just another hurtful way of punishing her when MOMMY gets
mad - like your threats of "time out" when your boy makes YOU mad.

I think you have so much anger in your own situation that you read
into my
situation (and others) the same anger and problems with your ex and
your
child(ren). No 2 situations are alike, and your exes is most
definitly
nothing like mine.

The similarities are just beginning to emerge. I don't think anyone
here would have guessed 2 weeks ago that you would admit to battery.
Now you admit to basing your son's discipline on your own emotions at
the time (I bet teach would agree with me that if the boy DOES have an
emotional disorder, that's a sure way to send him the wrong message
about how to handle those emotions). Let's just wait and see what
else
you let slip...

Mel Gamble

hope like hell one of these upcoming weekends my sister will
babysit so
I
can get out alone) I havent even gone grocery shopping without
my
kids
in
years! LOL

The problem is that the guy you had your child with does not
want to
be and never did want to be a father. You made a moral choice
to
have
the child--and you defend that moral choice. He made a choice
to not
be a father to this child--you don't approve of or accept his
choice.
You see it as immoral in some way--he does not see it the same
way.
Just as some of the people here do not see the choice you made
to
raise the child alone as wise of moral. Nobody is going to
change
anyone else's mind, and each has a right to his own opinion.
I do understand that the CS money would come in handy, but I
get
the
impression that having dad's support and presence is much more
important to you.

Yes, the money would be very helpful in helping to pay for my
sons
meds.
(he
has asthma also)

Bet he gasps every time you raise your hand an make a fist...

Mel Gamble

But it would be nice to see my son with his dad, like alot
of father/sons do. I asked his dad last year to go with to a
therapy
session
to help get an understanding of my sons illness, he wouldnt.
When
I
aclled
to tell him his son was inthe hospital, his mom, (yes he lievs
at
home)
hung
up on me...3 times!!!


Since dad is obviously not much help day-to-day, do you have a
support
system set up? Do you have people in your life who will watch
your
child and give you time to yourself?

Usually I get a sitter set up, my sister or my fiances sister,
then I
feel
bad and tell them not to worry about coming over.

You absolutely *need* to take
time for yourself, both for your child's sake and for your own
sake.
Is the school implementing the IEP properly?

There idea of IEP is when he has a bad day he will go to a
special
class
with the other special children.

It's very important to
keep on top of this. There should be some sort of group in
your
area
that could help you tap into the help you need as well as show
you
that you aern't alone in living with the difficulties of an
ADHD/ODD
child.

I moved here from another part of the county last year. I don't
know
anyone
except my boyfriends family and my sons teachers. Since I dont
really go
out
its kind of hard getting to know anyone. I met a few people with
my
consulting for Princess House but that is kept pretty much
consultant/hostess/guest relationship.
I need to get out, LOL.

That's an easy one...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
So you admit ...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
Yeah, right...

Ronni wrote:

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
"Ronni" wrote in message
...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

Just to clarify this girl I talked about from the beginning
was
with
her
babys dad for nearly 4 years. They met in high school and
were
together
for
quite a while, she thought he would be agood dad when she
found
out
she
was
pregnant, you never truly know anyone until you live with
them.
The
mistake
she made was loving and trusting him.

This may come as a surprise to you, but you are not the first
woman
who
has
had a child out of wedlock to come in here and pretend you are
a
"friend"
of
the "mother."

You know way too many details about your "friends" lover, her
pregnancy,
her
child's challenges, and her child's current situation to be
anything
other
than the real mother.

It's time to quit paying the games and be honest about your
situation.
And
admit you personally made some bad decisions about loving a
man
and
trusting
him until you became pregnant.

The people here are very tolerant and supportive of men and
women
who
find
themselves in need of advice.


Everyone here has done nothing but belittled me due to my
opinions
etc.
If I came here asking for advice I would be told that I should
have
had
an
abortion--or I shouldve known the dad would not be there--Yes
the
situations
is
my own--So I have been called a slut, a child abuser and so
on....
And yes I made very bad decisions when I was younger--as you
said--loving
and trusting a man that would never be there for his child. I
have
reasons
for not stating the truth that
I am the mother, ones you wouldnt understand.

I haven't belittled you, Ronni, although I have questioned your
knowledge of the child support system in general. I understand how
difficult it must be for you to be raising an ADHD/ODD child on
your
own. I would guess that his problems may be fairly severe, since
he
was hospitalized at such a young age in an effort to find a
diagnosis.
There must be days when you wish you could just run away and
hide.
Especially with the misinformation out there that insists that
better
parenting would "cure" these children.

My sons therapist--which is in one of the top offices in the area
for
this
type of treatment--told me that my son has one of the worst cases of
ADHD
and ODD he has ever seen. He said if he had to guess he thinks my
son
would
be in the top 2% for severity of symptoms. Sure there are times I
wished
I
could run away and hide, but unlike my sons dad, I grin and bear
it....(and

...or just punch him in the mouth? I bet you think nothing of a
little
verbal abuse like my daughter's mother throws at the two "handicapped"
siblings. "Leave me the **** alone, you little retarded *******! Why
don't you go live with your WONDERFUL father?" probably just rolls out
of your mouth without you even thinking about it. "No environmental
factors"...indeed.

You have no idea, seriously. Come live here for a week or two. The most
verbal abuse I give is 'If you don't (or do) this (or that) right now
you
will have a time out in the corner to think about what you have done' OR

************************************************** *****
'Now you are making me mad, do you need a time out?'
************************************************** *****
... junior gets punished based on YOUR emotions. He should only be
disciplined based on his own actions and that discipline should be
consistent REGARDLESS of your emotional state at the time. It never
ceases to amaze me how many parents think they can get angry and lash
out at their kids, then get all bent out of shape and ask the state for
help when their kids do the same thing.

You are one of the most miserable people I have ever had the pleasure to
discuss things with. If you tell your child 'Turn the playstation off now'
and he keeps yelling NO and refuses to do it what would you say? (or do)

....playstation disappears for a period of time, exactly as he was warned
it would. AND it disappears as a result of HIS actions, NOT *MY* state
of irritation. You see, the difference is that YOUR state of irritation
is not something your son has total control over - whether he is
punished or simply yelled at could depend on whether some a**hole
flipped you off in traffic coming home from the store, or any of a
number of things that might contribute to your irritation. You can't
teach kids to control THEIR actions unless the consequences they suffer
are a RESULT of THEIR actions.

Now
you condone me for saying 'Now you are making me mad....'

The word is "condemn" and, yes, I am condemning you for it.

That is simply a
way to show an ADHD ODD child that you are not kidding or joking around that
you are serious. How is telling my child I am getting upset cosnidered
'angry and lashing out'

Do you really want to know? Your child is seeing his punishment coming
as a result of YOUR mental state. He can do something one time and only
get yelled at. He can do the same thing another time and get ?? because
YOU are more irritated the second time. The message becomes one of his
punishment depending less on his actions - controllable by him - than
one of his punishment depending on your state of mind, over which he has
very little control. It takes the cause-and-effect relationship out of
the bad-behavior-equals-punishment equation. If he can't see that
relationship between his actions and punishment, there is little
incentive to change his behavior. It's like laws and their
enforcement. People know that if a cop clocks you breaking the law by
exceeding the speed limit by 5 or 10 mph you're only likely to get a
ticket if the cop has had a bad day - usually, you'll get by with it.
People also know that if a cop sees you holding up a bank, you have
effectively zero chance that it will be ignored. So just about
everybody exceeds the speed limit at times, while very few people rob
banks. And just in case you'd like to point out the difference in
severity between the punishments for the two as the reason for this
phenomenon, how do you explain the decline in speeding in areas where
the punishment remains the same standard fine but the enforcement goes
up?

and furthermore what are you talking about 'ask the
state for help'? I don't ask the state for help

Who's paying for this "plan" you and Teachermama are discussing? Who is
paying for the medical treatment for his "medical condition"?

an dI dont 'lash' out, I
simply state the truth to let him know that I am not joking it is time to
turn off the playstation....

************************************************** *******************
Let me guess you never told anyone you were mad or angry or upset.
************************************************** *******************

"someone" as in my own child? Sure I have. But I have never told her
that it would be part of the determination of her punishment for a
transgression - that would be telling her that losing her bike for two
weeks was not a result of her riding in the road when she was required
to stay on the sidewalk, but rather a result of me fighting rush-hour
traffic to get to her house.

Do you jut let your kids continue what they are doing
after they defy you? I doubt it

Of course not. I will tell her "stop doing x or y will happen. You
know x is unsafe and against the rules" Once that is said, "y" WILL
happen if she does "x" again, no matter how much I want to avoid "y". I
have cancelled several activities we both were looking forward to, etc.

or probably the worst
is 'Get off that playstation right now'---

Real verbal abuse there....

It keeps becoming more and more apparent.

OMG now I am verbally abusing my son for telling him to get off the
playstation, Call the cops.....

AND if you are concerned about your daughters mother (which I am sure
you
are since you are so concerned about my parenting) then do something
about
it.

Like spending of CS, the state has little concern with what happens to
kids in the houses of those who possess them.

Oh quite the opposite....here Children and Youth services have a lot to say
about what happens in a household. Although I am sure they wouldnt rip mys
on fromm my custody for telling him to turn off the playstation....

You could provide him with nothing but a Ford van for a home and not
lose him... You could punish him for things he hasn't done, tell him
daily that he's nothing more than camel dung, etc. As long as there are
no serious visible bruises, nothing will happen.

Dont turn her story around and compare her to me. I would never say such
things and if she asks 'Why don't you go live with your wonderful
father'
then why doesnt she?

Dummy. It's just another hurtful way of punishing her when MOMMY gets
mad - like your threats of "time out" when your boy makes YOU mad.

HELLO!!! What world do you live in? When a child defies your they need to
know it is wrong.

And whether a child's actions are right or wrong has exactly how much to
do with the parents mental state at the time of said actions??? Either
the action is wrong - and should be dealt with in a previously-defined
manner - or it is not wrong. The parent's mental state is a side issue
over which the child will have only little control at most.

ADHD ODD kids really take to heart a 'time out'. They
don't like being in time out and therefore hopefully learn a lesson that
when mom or dad tells them to get off the playstation, clean their room, get
dressed, get a bath, eat supper, etc etc etc that they need to listen.

That's fine. Why is it a worse violation of your rules if he continues
to play if you are mad than it is if he continues to play when you are
not mad? How is he supposed to adjust his behavior if the rightness or
wrongness of it is dependent - even in part - on conditions over which
he has no control?

You
are a piece of work. Would you like the numbers for the therapists my son
sees so they can tell you how to implement the time out idea? Ever hear of
1-2-3 Magic?? I guess the guy who came up with that idea should be word
bashed by the likes of you, too.

Tell your son's therapists that he is more apt to be punished if you've
had a bad day at work. Tell them that behaviors are considered "more
bad" if you are mad than if you are happy. Tell them and see what they
have to say...

I think you have so much anger in your own situation that you read into
my
situation (and others) the same anger and problems with your ex and your
child(ren). No 2 situations are alike, and your exes is most definitly
nothing like mine.

The similarities are just beginning to emerge. I don't think anyone
here would have guessed 2 weeks ago that you would admit to battery.
Now you admit to basing your son's discipline on your own emotions at
the time (I bet teach would agree with me that if the boy DOES have an
emotional disorder, that's a sure way to send him the wrong message
about how to handle those emotions). Let's just wait and see what else
you let slip...

What I let slip? Giving a child a time out because they defy you is hardly
letting anything slip? You need a reality check...again where did you get
your psych degree because you read too much into things. You read things
into comments of mine that arent there.

Then why be so touchy?

But one question, since I am not supposed to give my son a time out
according to you,

Where did I say that? I said you're not supposed to give him a time out
because of YOU.

when he refuses to get a bath etc etc what do you supposed
I should do? Let him go? I don't think so. But please, I want your opinion,
since Time out is abuse in your eyes...what would you do?

I think I've given a pretty clear picture, but let's try a concrete
example. When he refuses, you tell him "you have 15 minutes to be done
with your bath and if you aren't clean it doesn't count. If you're not
done in 15 minutes, you will lose your playstation for 1 week." Then
you ignore him for 15 minutes. At the end of the 15 minutes, if he's
clean, you can give him some small positive reward for good behavior.
If he's not - playstation disappears for 1 week. Disappearance of the
playstation is definite - it happens whether you're extra mad or not, it
happens whether he's been bad at school that day or not, it happens
whether it's the third time this week he's refused to bathe. It happens
because you said it would if he didn't bathe and he didn't bathe. YOU
made the rule - which is your job as the parent. HE was 100% in control
of whether he got punished for violating it. The consequence of his
actions is known and under his control. He has the incentive - and the
ability - to avoid the consequence, since it depends totally on his own
behavior. When you make it depend on something besides his own
behavior, you take away his ability to control it, and therefore reduce
his incentive to try.

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

hope like hell one of these upcoming weekends my sister will babysit
so
I
can get out alone) I havent even gone grocery shopping without my
kids
in
years! LOL

The problem is that the guy you had your child with does not want
to
be and never did want to be a father. You made a moral choice to
have
the child--and you defend that moral choice. He made a choice to
not
be a father to this child--you don't approve of or accept his
choice.
You see it as immoral in some way--he does not see it the same
way.
Just as some of the people here do not see the choice you made to
raise the child alone as wise of moral. Nobody is going to change
anyone else's mind, and each has a right to his own opinion.
I do understand that the CS money would come in handy, but I get
the
impression that having dad's support and presence is much more
important to you.

Yes, the money would be very helpful in helping to pay for my sons
meds.
(he
has asthma also)

Bet he gasps every time you raise your hand an make a fist...

Mel Gamble

But it would be nice to see my son with his dad, like alot
of father/sons do. I asked his dad last year to go with to a therapy
session
to help get an understanding of my sons illness, he wouldnt. When I
aclled
to tell him his son was inthe hospital, his mom, (yes he lievs at
home)
hung
up on me...3 times!!!


Since dad is obviously not much help day-to-day, do you have a
support
system set up? Do you have people in your life who will watch your
child and give you time to yourself?

Usually I get a sitter set up, my sister or my fiances sister, then
I
feel
bad and tell them not to worry about coming over.

You absolutely *need* to take
time for yourself, both for your child's sake and for your own
sake.
Is the school implementing the IEP properly?

There idea of IEP is when he has a bad day he will go to a special
class
with the other special children.

It's very important to
keep on top of this. There should be some sort of group in your
area
that could help you tap into the help you need as well as show you
that you aern't alone in living with the difficulties of an
ADHD/ODD
child.

I moved here from another part of the county last year. I don't know
anyone
except my boyfriends family and my sons teachers. Since I dont
really go
out
its kind of hard getting to know anyone. I met a few people with my
consulting for Princess House but that is kept pretty much
consultant/hostess/guest relationship.
I need to get out, LOL.

That's an easy one...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
So you admit ...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
Yeah, right...

Ronni wrote:

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
"Ronni" wrote in message
...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

Just to clarify this girl I talked about from the beginning
was
with
her
babys dad for nearly 4 years. They met in high school and
were
together
for
quite a while, she thought he would be agood dad when she
found
out
she
was
pregnant, you never truly know anyone until you live with
them.
The
mistake
she made was loving and trusting him.

This may come as a surprise to you, but you are not the first
woman
who
has
had a child out of wedlock to come in here and pretend you are
a
"friend"
of
the "mother."

You know way too many details about your "friends" lover, her
pregnancy,
her
child's challenges, and her child's current situation to be
anything
other
than the real mother.

It's time to quit paying the games and be honest about your
situation.
And
admit you personally made some bad decisions about loving a
man
and
trusting
him until you became pregnant.

The people here are very tolerant and supportive of men and
women
who
find
themselves in need of advice.


Everyone here has done nothing but belittled me due to my
opinions
etc.
If I came here asking for advice I would be told that I should
have
had
an
abortion--or I shouldve known the dad would not be there--Yes
the
situations
is
my own--So I have been called a slut, a child abuser and so
on....
And yes I made very bad decisions when I was younger--as you
said--loving
and trusting a man that would never be there for his child. I
have
reasons
for not stating the truth that
I am the mother, ones you wouldnt understand.

I haven't belittled you, Ronni, although I have questioned your
knowledge of the child support system in general. I understand how
difficult it must be for you to be raising an ADHD/ODD child on
your
own. I would guess that his problems may be fairly severe, since
he
was hospitalized at such a young age in an effort to find a
diagnosis.
There must be days when you wish you could just run away and
hide.
Especially with the misinformation out there that insists that
better
parenting would "cure" these children.

My sons therapist--which is in one of the top offices in the area
for
this
type of treatment--told me that my son has one of the worst cases of
ADHD
and ODD he has ever seen. He said if he had to guess he thinks my
son
would
be in the top 2% for severity of symptoms. Sure there are times I
wished
I
could run away and hide, but unlike my sons dad, I grin and bear
it....(and

...or just punch him in the mouth? I bet you think nothing of a
little
verbal abuse like my daughter's mother throws at the two "handicapped"
siblings. "Leave me the **** alone, you little retarded *******! Why
don't you go live with your WONDERFUL father?" probably just rolls out
of your mouth without you even thinking about it. "No environmental
factors"...indeed.

You have no idea, seriously. Come live here for a week or two. The most
verbal abuse I give is 'If you don't (or do) this (or that) right now
you
will have a time out in the corner to think about what you have done' OR

************************************************** *****
'Now you are making me mad, do you need a time out?'
************************************************** *****
... junior gets punished based on YOUR emotions. He should only be
disciplined based on his own actions and that discipline should be
consistent REGARDLESS of your emotional state at the time. It never
ceases to amaze me how many parents think they can get angry and lash
out at their kids, then get all bent out of shape and ask the state for
help when their kids do the same thing.

You are one of the most miserable people I have ever had the pleasure to
discuss things with. If you tell your child 'Turn the playstation off now'
and he keeps yelling NO and refuses to do it what would you say? (or do)

....playstation disappears for a period of time, exactly as he was warned
it would. AND it disappears as a result of HIS actions, NOT *MY* state
of irritation. You see, the difference is that YOUR state of irritation
is not something your son has total control over - whether he is
punished or simply yelled at could depend on whether some a**hole
flipped you off in traffic coming home from the store, or any of a
number of things that might contribute to your irritation. You can't
teach kids to control THEIR actions unless the consequences they suffer
are a RESULT of THEIR actions.

Now
you condone me for saying 'Now you are making me mad....'

The word is "condemn" and, yes, I am condemning you for it.

That is simply a
way to show an ADHD ODD child that you are not kidding or joking around that
you are serious. How is telling my child I am getting upset cosnidered
'angry and lashing out'

Do you really want to know? Your child is seeing his punishment coming
as a result of YOUR mental state. He can do something one time and only
get yelled at. He can do the same thing another time and get ?? because
YOU are more irritated the second time. The message becomes one of his
punishment depending less on his actions - controllable by him - than
one of his punishment depending on your state of mind, over which he has
very little control. It takes the cause-and-effect relationship out of
the bad-behavior-equals-punishment equation. If he can't see that
relationship between his actions and punishment, there is little
incentive to change his behavior. It's like laws and their
enforcement. People know that if a cop clocks you breaking the law by
exceeding the speed limit by 5 or 10 mph you're only likely to get a
ticket if the cop has had a bad day - usually, you'll get by with it.
People also know that if a cop sees you holding up a bank, you have
effectively zero chance that it will be ignored. So just about
everybody exceeds the speed limit at times, while very few people rob
banks. And just in case you'd like to point out the difference in
severity between the punishments for the two as the reason for this
phenomenon, how do you explain the decline in speeding in areas where
the punishment remains the same standard fine but the enforcement goes
up?

and furthermore what are you talking about 'ask the
state for help'? I don't ask the state for help

Who's paying for this "plan" you and Teachermama are discussing? Who is
paying for the medical treatment for his "medical condition"?

an dI dont 'lash' out, I
simply state the truth to let him know that I am not joking it is time to
turn off the playstation....

************************************************** *******************
Let me guess you never told anyone you were mad or angry or upset.
************************************************** *******************

"someone" as in my own child? Sure I have. But I have never told her
that it would be part of the determination of her punishment for a
transgression - that would be telling her that losing her bike for two
weeks was not a result of her riding in the road when she was required
to stay on the sidewalk, but rather a result of me fighting rush-hour
traffic to get to her house.

Do you jut let your kids continue what they are doing
after they defy you? I doubt it

Of course not. I will tell her "stop doing x or y will happen. You
know x is unsafe and against the rules" Once that is said, "y" WILL
happen if she does "x" again, no matter how much I want to avoid "y". I
have cancelled several activities we both were looking forward to, etc.

or probably the worst
is 'Get off that playstation right now'---

Real verbal abuse there....

It keeps becoming more and more apparent.

OMG now I am verbally abusing my son for telling him to get off the
playstation, Call the cops.....

AND if you are concerned about your daughters mother (which I am sure
you
are since you are so concerned about my parenting) then do something
about
it.

Like spending of CS, the state has little concern with what happens to
kids in the houses of those who possess them.

Oh quite the opposite....here Children and Youth services have a lot to say
about what happens in a household. Although I am sure they wouldnt rip mys
on fromm my custody for telling him to turn off the playstation....

You could provide him with nothing but a Ford van for a home and not
lose him... You could punish him for things he hasn't done, tell him
daily that he's nothing more than camel dung, etc. As long as there are
no serious visible bruises, nothing will happen.

Dont turn her story around and compare her to me. I would never say such
things and if she asks 'Why don't you go live with your wonderful
father'
then why doesnt she?

Dummy. It's just another hurtful way of punishing her when MOMMY gets
mad - like your threats of "time out" when your boy makes YOU mad.

HELLO!!! What world do you live in? When a child defies your they need to
know it is wrong.

And whether a child's actions are right or wrong has exactly how much to
do with the parents mental state at the time of said actions??? Either
the action is wrong - and should be dealt with in a previously-defined
manner - or it is not wrong. The parent's mental state is a side issue
over which the child will have only little control at most.

ADHD ODD kids really take to heart a 'time out'. They
don't like being in time out and therefore hopefully learn a lesson that
when mom or dad tells them to get off the playstation, clean their room, get
dressed, get a bath, eat supper, etc etc etc that they need to listen.

That's fine. Why is it a worse violation of your rules if he continues
to play if you are mad than it is if he continues to play when you are
not mad? How is he supposed to adjust his behavior if the rightness or
wrongness of it is dependent - even in part - on conditions over which
he has no control?

You
are a piece of work. Would you like the numbers for the therapists my son
sees so they can tell you how to implement the time out idea? Ever hear of
1-2-3 Magic?? I guess the guy who came up with that idea should be word
bashed by the likes of you, too.

Tell your son's therapists that he is more apt to be punished if you've
had a bad day at work. Tell them that behaviors are considered "more
bad" if you are mad than if you are happy. Tell them and see what they
have to say...

I think you have so much anger in your own situation that you read into
my
situation (and others) the same anger and problems with your ex and your
child(ren). No 2 situations are alike, and your exes is most definitly
nothing like mine.

The similarities are just beginning to emerge. I don't think anyone
here would have guessed 2 weeks ago that you would admit to battery.
Now you admit to basing your son's discipline on your own emotions at
the time (I bet teach would agree with me that if the boy DOES have an
emotional disorder, that's a sure way to send him the wrong message
about how to handle those emotions). Let's just wait and see what else
you let slip...

What I let slip? Giving a child a time out because they defy you is hardly
letting anything slip? You need a reality check...again where did you get
your psych degree because you read too much into things. You read things
into comments of mine that arent there.

Then why be so touchy?

But one question, since I am not supposed to give my son a time out
according to you,

Where did I say that? I said you're not supposed to give him a time out
because of YOU.

when he refuses to get a bath etc etc what do you supposed
I should do? Let him go? I don't think so. But please, I want your opinion,
since Time out is abuse in your eyes...what would you do?

I think I've given a pretty clear picture, but let's try a concrete
example. When he refuses, you tell him "you have 15 minutes to be done
with your bath and if you aren't clean it doesn't count. If you're not
done in 15 minutes, you will lose your playstation for 1 week." Then
you ignore him for 15 minutes. At the end of the 15 minutes, if he's
clean, you can give him some small positive reward for good behavior.
If he's not - playstation disappears for 1 week. Disappearance of the
playstation is definite - it happens whether you're extra mad or not, it
happens whether he's been bad at school that day or not, it happens
whether it's the third time this week he's refused to bathe. It happens
because you said it would if he didn't bathe and he didn't bathe. YOU
made the rule - which is your job as the parent. HE was 100% in control
of whether he got punished for violating it. The consequence of his
actions is known and under his control. He has the incentive - and the
ability - to avoid the consequence, since it depends totally on his own
behavior. When you make it depend on something besides his own
behavior, you take away his ability to control it, and therefore reduce
his incentive to try.

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

hope like hell one of these upcoming weekends my sister will babysit
so
I
can get out alone) I havent even gone grocery shopping without my
kids
in
years! LOL

The problem is that the guy you had your child with does not want
to
be and never did want to be a father. You made a moral choice to
have
the child--and you defend that moral choice. He made a choice to
not
be a father to this child--you don't approve of or accept his
choice.
You see it as immoral in some way--he does not see it the same
way.
Just as some of the people here do not see the choice you made to
raise the child alone as wise of moral. Nobody is going to change
anyone else's mind, and each has a right to his own opinion.
I do understand that the CS money would come in handy, but I get
the
impression that having dad's support and presence is much more
important to you.

Yes, the money would be very helpful in helping to pay for my sons
meds.
(he
has asthma also)

Bet he gasps every time you raise your hand an make a fist...

Mel Gamble

But it would be nice to see my son with his dad, like alot
of father/sons do. I asked his dad last year to go with to a therapy
session
to help get an understanding of my sons illness, he wouldnt. When I
aclled
to tell him his son was inthe hospital, his mom, (yes he lievs at
home)
hung
up on me...3 times!!!


Since dad is obviously not much help day-to-day, do you have a
support
system set up? Do you have people in your life who will watch your
child and give you time to yourself?

Usually I get a sitter set up, my sister or my fiances sister, then
I
feel
bad and tell them not to worry about coming over.

You absolutely *need* to take
time for yourself, both for your child's sake and for your own
sake.
Is the school implementing the IEP properly?

There idea of IEP is when he has a bad day he will go to a special
class
with the other special children.

It's very important to
keep on top of this. There should be some sort of group in your
area
that could help you tap into the help you need as well as show you
that you aern't alone in living with the difficulties of an
ADHD/ODD
child.

I moved here from another part of the county last year. I don't know
anyone
except my boyfriends family and my sons teachers. Since I dont
really go
out
its kind of hard getting to know anyone. I met a few people with my
consulting for Princess House but that is kept pretty much
consultant/hostess/guest relationship.
I need to get out, LOL.

Below...

TeacherMama wrote:

Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.

But that makes the "acceptableness" of his actions dependent on whether
mom is getting mad - makes his choices grey instead of black-and-white.
It may not be a totally wrong thing for her to do, but it certainly
makes it more difficult for the boy to see the cause-and-effect results
of his actions and the consequences if they are "wrong" actions.

In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

Why not "(child's name), do you think (whatever action) is a good choice
or can you think of a more positive choice?"

You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does.

Not sure that I made that statement. What I did state was that I think
WAY too many kids are displaying inappropriate behavior that is a
reaction to environment - kids who would be displaying appropriate
behavior if their environment was different - but being diagnosed as
having a chemical problem that requires medication. I know this happens
for a fact. I've watched a perfectly decent little boy's environment
change drastically and within less than a year he was on "meds"...and
mom was getting that extra "disability" check every month.

And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child.

No argument there, just with the percentage of "diagnosed" ADHD/ODD
cases that are a result of environment and the attempt at treating them
by changing the kid instead of changing the environment.

The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

That's what I'm trying to say. There are far too many adults ready to
holler "ADHD" because it's much simpler to shove a pill down junior's
throat twice a day than it is to go through the difficulty of changing
his behavior by changing their own.

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble wrote in message ...
So you admit ...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
Yeah, right...

Ronni wrote:

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
"Ronni" wrote in message
...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

Just to clarify this girl I talked about from the beginning was
with
her
babys dad for nearly 4 years. They met in high school and were
together
for
quite a while, she thought he would be agood dad when she found
out
she
was
pregnant, you never truly know anyone until you live with them.
The
mistake
she made was loving and trusting him.

This may come as a surprise to you, but you are not the first
woman
who
has
had a child out of wedlock to come in here and pretend you are a
"friend"
of
the "mother."

You know way too many details about your "friends" lover, her
pregnancy,
her
child's challenges, and her child's current situation to be
anything
other
than the real mother.

It's time to quit paying the games and be honest about your
situation.
And
admit you personally made some bad decisions about loving a man
and
trusting
him until you became pregnant.

The people here are very tolerant and supportive of men and women
who
find
themselves in need of advice.


Everyone here has done nothing but belittled me due to my opinions
etc.
If I came here asking for advice I would be told that I should have
had
an
abortion--or I shouldve known the dad would not be there--Yes the
situations
is
my own--So I have been called a slut, a child abuser and so on....
And yes I made very bad decisions when I was younger--as you
said--loving
and trusting a man that would never be there for his child. I have
reasons
for not stating the truth that
I am the mother, ones you wouldnt understand.

I haven't belittled you, Ronni, although I have questioned your
knowledge of the child support system in general. I understand how
difficult it must be for you to be raising an ADHD/ODD child on your
own. I would guess that his problems may be fairly severe, since he
was hospitalized at such a young age in an effort to find a diagnosis.
There must be days when you wish you could just run away and hide.
Especially with the misinformation out there that insists that better
parenting would "cure" these children.

My sons therapist--which is in one of the top offices in the area for
this
type of treatment--told me that my son has one of the worst cases of
ADHD
and ODD he has ever seen. He said if he had to guess he thinks my son
would
be in the top 2% for severity of symptoms. Sure there are times I wished
I
could run away and hide, but unlike my sons dad, I grin and bear
it....(and

...or just punch him in the mouth? I bet you think nothing of a little
verbal abuse like my daughter's mother throws at the two "handicapped"
siblings. "Leave me the **** alone, you little retarded *******! Why
don't you go live with your WONDERFUL father?" probably just rolls out
of your mouth without you even thinking about it. "No environmental
factors"...indeed.

You have no idea, seriously. Come live here for a week or two. The most
verbal abuse I give is 'If you don't (or do) this (or that) right now you
will have a time out in the corner to think about what you have done' OR

************************************************** *****
'Now you are making me mad, do you need a time out?'
************************************************** *****
... junior gets punished based on YOUR emotions. He should only be
disciplined based on his own actions and that discipline should be
consistent REGARDLESS of your emotional state at the time. It never
ceases to amaze me how many parents think they can get angry and lash
out at their kids, then get all bent out of shape and ask the state for
help when their kids do the same thing.


or probably the worst
is 'Get off that playstation right now'---

Real verbal abuse there....

It keeps becoming more and more apparent.

AND if you are concerned about your daughters mother (which I am sure you
are since you are so concerned about my parenting) then do something about
it.

Like spending of CS, the state has little concern with what happens to
kids in the houses of those who possess them.

Dont turn her story around and compare her to me. I would never say such
things and if she asks 'Why don't you go live with your wonderful father'
then why doesnt she?

Dummy. It's just another hurtful way of punishing her when MOMMY gets
mad - like your threats of "time out" when your boy makes YOU mad.

I think you have so much anger in your own situation that you read into my
situation (and others) the same anger and problems with your ex and your
child(ren). No 2 situations are alike, and your exes is most definitly
nothing like mine.

The similarities are just beginning to emerge. I don't think anyone
here would have guessed 2 weeks ago that you would admit to battery.
Now you admit to basing your son's discipline on your own emotions at
the time (I bet teach would agree with me that if the boy DOES have an
emotional disorder, that's a sure way to send him the wrong message
about how to handle those emotions). Let's just wait and see what else
you let slip...

Mel Gamble

hope like hell one of these upcoming weekends my sister will babysit so
I
can get out alone) I havent even gone grocery shopping without my kids
in
years! LOL

The problem is that the guy you had your child with does not want to
be and never did want to be a father. You made a moral choice to have
the child--and you defend that moral choice. He made a choice to not
be a father to this child--you don't approve of or accept his choice.
You see it as immoral in some way--he does not see it the same way.
Just as some of the people here do not see the choice you made to
raise the child alone as wise of moral. Nobody is going to change
anyone else's mind, and each has a right to his own opinion.
I do understand that the CS money would come in handy, but I get the
impression that having dad's support and presence is much more
important to you.

Yes, the money would be very helpful in helping to pay for my sons meds.
(he
has asthma also)

Bet he gasps every time you raise your hand an make a fist...

Mel Gamble

But it would be nice to see my son with his dad, like alot
of father/sons do. I asked his dad last year to go with to a therapy
session
to help get an understanding of my sons illness, he wouldnt. When I
aclled
to tell him his son was inthe hospital, his mom, (yes he lievs at home)
hung
up on me...3 times!!!


Since dad is obviously not much help day-to-day, do you have a support
system set up? Do you have people in your life who will watch your
child and give you time to yourself?

Usually I get a sitter set up, my sister or my fiances sister, then I
feel
bad and tell them not to worry about coming over.

You absolutely *need* to take
time for yourself, both for your child's sake and for your own sake.
Is the school implementing the IEP properly?

There idea of IEP is when he has a bad day he will go to a special class
with the other special children.

It's very important to
keep on top of this. There should be some sort of group in your area
that could help you tap into the help you need as well as show you
that you aern't alone in living with the difficulties of an ADHD/ODD
child.

I moved here from another part of the county last year. I don't know
anyone
except my boyfriends family and my sons teachers. Since I dont really go
out
its kind of hard getting to know anyone. I met a few people with my
consulting for Princess House but that is kept pretty much
consultant/hostess/guest relationship.
I need to get out, LOL.

Below...

TeacherMama wrote:

Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.

But that makes the "acceptableness" of his actions dependent on whether
mom is getting mad - makes his choices grey instead of black-and-white.
It may not be a totally wrong thing for her to do, but it certainly
makes it more difficult for the boy to see the cause-and-effect results
of his actions and the consequences if they are "wrong" actions.

In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

Why not "(child's name), do you think (whatever action) is a good choice
or can you think of a more positive choice?"

You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does.

Not sure that I made that statement. What I did state was that I think
WAY too many kids are displaying inappropriate behavior that is a
reaction to environment - kids who would be displaying appropriate
behavior if their environment was different - but being diagnosed as
having a chemical problem that requires medication. I know this happens
for a fact. I've watched a perfectly decent little boy's environment
change drastically and within less than a year he was on "meds"...and
mom was getting that extra "disability" check every month.

And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child.

No argument there, just with the percentage of "diagnosed" ADHD/ODD
cases that are a result of environment and the attempt at treating them
by changing the kid instead of changing the environment.

The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

That's what I'm trying to say. There are far too many adults ready to
holler "ADHD" because it's much simpler to shove a pill down junior's
throat twice a day than it is to go through the difficulty of changing
his behavior by changing their own.

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble wrote in message ...
So you admit ...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
Yeah, right...

Ronni wrote:

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
"Ronni" wrote in message
...
"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

Just to clarify this girl I talked about from the beginning was
with
her
babys dad for nearly 4 years. They met in high school and were
together
for
quite a while, she thought he would be agood dad when she found
out
she
was
pregnant, you never truly know anyone until you live with them.
The
mistake
she made was loving and trusting him.

This may come as a surprise to you, but you are not the first
woman
who
has
had a child out of wedlock to come in here and pretend you are a
"friend"
of
the "mother."

You know way too many details about your "friends" lover, her
pregnancy,
her
child's challenges, and her child's current situation to be
anything
other
than the real mother.

It's time to quit paying the games and be honest about your
situation.
And
admit you personally made some bad decisions about loving a man
and
trusting
him until you became pregnant.

The people here are very tolerant and supportive of men and women
who
find
themselves in need of advice.


Everyone here has done nothing but belittled me due to my opinions
etc.
If I came here asking for advice I would be told that I should have
had
an
abortion--or I shouldve known the dad would not be there--Yes the
situations
is
my own--So I have been called a slut, a child abuser and so on....
And yes I made very bad decisions when I was younger--as you
said--loving
and trusting a man that would never be there for his child. I have
reasons
for not stating the truth that
I am the mother, ones you wouldnt understand.

I haven't belittled you, Ronni, although I have questioned your
knowledge of the child support system in general. I understand how
difficult it must be for you to be raising an ADHD/ODD child on your
own. I would guess that his problems may be fairly severe, since he
was hospitalized at such a young age in an effort to find a diagnosis.
There must be days when you wish you could just run away and hide.
Especially with the misinformation out there that insists that better
parenting would "cure" these children.

My sons therapist--which is in one of the top offices in the area for
this
type of treatment--told me that my son has one of the worst cases of
ADHD
and ODD he has ever seen. He said if he had to guess he thinks my son
would
be in the top 2% for severity of symptoms. Sure there are times I wished
I
could run away and hide, but unlike my sons dad, I grin and bear
it....(and

...or just punch him in the mouth? I bet you think nothing of a little
verbal abuse like my daughter's mother throws at the two "handicapped"
siblings. "Leave me the **** alone, you little retarded *******! Why
don't you go live with your WONDERFUL father?" probably just rolls out
of your mouth without you even thinking about it. "No environmental
factors"...indeed.

You have no idea, seriously. Come live here for a week or two. The most
verbal abuse I give is 'If you don't (or do) this (or that) right now you
will have a time out in the corner to think about what you have done' OR

************************************************** *****
'Now you are making me mad, do you need a time out?'
************************************************** *****
... junior gets punished based on YOUR emotions. He should only be
disciplined based on his own actions and that discipline should be
consistent REGARDLESS of your emotional state at the time. It never
ceases to amaze me how many parents think they can get angry and lash
out at their kids, then get all bent out of shape and ask the state for
help when their kids do the same thing.


or probably the worst
is 'Get off that playstation right now'---

Real verbal abuse there....

It keeps becoming more and more apparent.

AND if you are concerned about your daughters mother (which I am sure you
are since you are so concerned about my parenting) then do something about
it.

Like spending of CS, the state has little concern with what happens to
kids in the houses of those who possess them.

Dont turn her story around and compare her to me. I would never say such
things and if she asks 'Why don't you go live with your wonderful father'
then why doesnt she?

Dummy. It's just another hurtful way of punishing her when MOMMY gets
mad - like your threats of "time out" when your boy makes YOU mad.

I think you have so much anger in your own situation that you read into my
situation (and others) the same anger and problems with your ex and your
child(ren). No 2 situations are alike, and your exes is most definitly
nothing like mine.

The similarities are just beginning to emerge. I don't think anyone
here would have guessed 2 weeks ago that you would admit to battery.
Now you admit to basing your son's discipline on your own emotions at
the time (I bet teach would agree with me that if the boy DOES have an
emotional disorder, that's a sure way to send him the wrong message
about how to handle those emotions). Let's just wait and see what else
you let slip...

Mel Gamble

hope like hell one of these upcoming weekends my sister will babysit so
I
can get out alone) I havent even gone grocery shopping without my kids
in
years! LOL

The problem is that the guy you had your child with does not want to
be and never did want to be a father. You made a moral choice to have
the child--and you defend that moral choice. He made a choice to not
be a father to this child--you don't approve of or accept his choice.
You see it as immoral in some way--he does not see it the same way.
Just as some of the people here do not see the choice you made to
raise the child alone as wise of moral. Nobody is going to change
anyone else's mind, and each has a right to his own opinion.
I do understand that the CS money would come in handy, but I get the
impression that having dad's support and presence is much more
important to you.

Yes, the money would be very helpful in helping to pay for my sons meds.
(he
has asthma also)

Bet he gasps every time you raise your hand an make a fist...

Mel Gamble

But it would be nice to see my son with his dad, like alot
of father/sons do. I asked his dad last year to go with to a therapy
session
to help get an understanding of my sons illness, he wouldnt. When I
aclled
to tell him his son was inthe hospital, his mom, (yes he lievs at home)
hung
up on me...3 times!!!


Since dad is obviously not much help day-to-day, do you have a support
system set up? Do you have people in your life who will watch your
child and give you time to yourself?

Usually I get a sitter set up, my sister or my fiances sister, then I
feel
bad and tell them not to worry about coming over.

You absolutely *need* to take
time for yourself, both for your child's sake and for your own sake.
Is the school implementing the IEP properly?

There idea of IEP is when he has a bad day he will go to a special class
with the other special children.

It's very important to
keep on top of this. There should be some sort of group in your area
that could help you tap into the help you need as well as show you
that you aern't alone in living with the difficulties of an ADHD/ODD
child.

I moved here from another part of the county last year. I don't know
anyone
except my boyfriends family and my sons teachers. Since I dont really go
out
its kind of hard getting to know anyone. I met a few people with my
consulting for Princess House but that is kept pretty much
consultant/hostess/guest relationship.
I need to get out, LOL.

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
If you see no reason...

snip

...to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

Once again you blow things out of proportion. You act as though you
have never gotten mad, upset or angered with anyone in your life. I was
simply demonstrating that in fact you did, because everyone does at one
point or another.


You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone ONE
time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb
woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

I didn't have a get out of jail free card....Have you ever noticed when a
man hits woman there is generally a mark of some sort left behind? Let me
explain further...men are generally stronger than women. LET ME STRESS I
SAID GENERALLY He had no mark on him....and besides around here we don't run
to the cops for every little problem we have. I don't know what fantasy land
you live in but here if we called the cops for every little thing that went
wrong, every little push and shove, the state would be paying them overtime
constantly.


ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because
what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now
ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

So I am wrong?....fine, but AT LEAST I offered it to him as something I
would be willing to do.....you complained how many post ago that women have
this right to deny the father to sign his rights away, but now that I tell
you I offered it to him it is a whole different story. I am sure that if he
would have agreed we could have found a way to make it happen. He probably
would have simply had to pay his back support up to date....but I am sure
you have something to say about that too.....Ronni


Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
If you see no reason...

snip

...to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

Once again you blow things out of proportion. You act as though you
have never gotten mad, upset or angered with anyone in your life. I was
simply demonstrating that in fact you did, because everyone does at one
point or another.


You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone ONE
time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb
woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

I didn't have a get out of jail free card....Have you ever noticed when a
man hits woman there is generally a mark of some sort left behind? Let me
explain further...men are generally stronger than women. LET ME STRESS I
SAID GENERALLY He had no mark on him....and besides around here we don't run
to the cops for every little problem we have. I don't know what fantasy land
you live in but here if we called the cops for every little thing that went
wrong, every little push and shove, the state would be paying them overtime
constantly.


ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because
what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now
ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

So I am wrong?....fine, but AT LEAST I offered it to him as something I
would be willing to do.....you complained how many post ago that women have
this right to deny the father to sign his rights away, but now that I tell
you I offered it to him it is a whole different story. I am sure that if he
would have agreed we could have found a way to make it happen. He probably
would have simply had to pay his back support up to date....but I am sure
you have something to say about that too.....Ronni


Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

"Gini" wrote in message
...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.
In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does. And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child. The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

My boy hasn't established an understanding of consequences yet. He
doesnt
think ahead at the point where he is doing something he knows he
shouldnt
be or acting in a manner he shouldnt be .... while undergoing the
consequence,
==
Ronnie, Please ask your doctor whether he/she thinks Zyprexa would be
worth
a trial for your son. It is the only medicine my oldest son has been on
that
has really
helped him. I call it our "miracle med." He has rapid-cycling bi-polar
disorder--Zyprexa has stabilized
his moods such that he is capable of having a "normal" day. He is now 24
but
had a
lot of your son's symptoms when younger (ODD/impulse control--that we now
know had the physiological
base of bi-polar). He was/is extremely intelligent, well spoken with no
ADD/Hyperactivity. Because of that, he
slipped through a lot of cracks. If he had been put on Zyprexa when he was
younger,
I believe we all would have had a very different life. Too, sometimes a
child's true behavior/personality gets lost under so many meds and kids
change a lot when they are in elementary school. What was appropriate one
year, may work very
differently the next. Hang in there. I know how incredibly difficult it is
to live with a challenging child. TM seems to have a very good handle on
the
educational issues--wish we had her in my son's schools. They really had
no
idea how to deal
with challenging kids. You can email me at ginih at jlink dot net to let
me
know what the doc says about Zyprexa.
==

Thanks Gini, I will ask at his next visit. I believe it is around the
15th...I appreciate it.

Ronni