Choices, choices, choices -- but only for women

"Gini" wrote in message
...

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.
In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does. And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child. The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

My boy hasn't established an understanding of consequences yet. He
doesnt
think ahead at the point where he is doing something he knows he
shouldnt
be or acting in a manner he shouldnt be .... while undergoing the
consequence,
==
Ronnie, Please ask your doctor whether he/she thinks Zyprexa would be
worth
a trial for your son. It is the only medicine my oldest son has been on
that
has really
helped him. I call it our "miracle med." He has rapid-cycling bi-polar
disorder--Zyprexa has stabilized
his moods such that he is capable of having a "normal" day. He is now 24
but
had a
lot of your son's symptoms when younger (ODD/impulse control--that we now
know had the physiological
base of bi-polar). He was/is extremely intelligent, well spoken with no
ADD/Hyperactivity. Because of that, he
slipped through a lot of cracks. If he had been put on Zyprexa when he was
younger,
I believe we all would have had a very different life. Too, sometimes a
child's true behavior/personality gets lost under so many meds and kids
change a lot when they are in elementary school. What was appropriate one
year, may work very
differently the next. Hang in there. I know how incredibly difficult it is
to live with a challenging child. TM seems to have a very good handle on
the
educational issues--wish we had her in my son's schools. They really had
no
idea how to deal
with challenging kids. You can email me at ginih at jlink dot net to let
me
know what the doc says about Zyprexa.
==

Thanks Gini, I will ask at his next visit. I believe it is around the
15th...I appreciate it.

Ronni

It *does* sound like you think it worse if a man hits a woman. No matter who
abuses whom, or why, it is abuse, period. Size not withstanding. Generally,
women are quick to yell abuse when men hit women but try to excuse their
size for claiming no abuse when a woman hits a man. It's simply smoke and
mirrors. Regardless the claimed "reason", there *is* no reason to resort to
violence for words spoken no matter how offensive one finds them. IMO, of
course.
Phil #3

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
If you see no reason...

snip

...to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

Once again you blow things out of proportion. You act as though you
have never gotten mad, upset or angered with anyone in your life. I was
simply demonstrating that in fact you did, because everyone does at one
point or another.


You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I
can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone ONE
time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb
woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

I didn't have a get out of jail free card....Have you ever noticed when a
man hits woman there is generally a mark of some sort left behind? Let me
explain further...men are generally stronger than women. LET ME STRESS I
SAID GENERALLY He had no mark on him....and besides around here we don't
run
to the cops for every little problem we have. I don't know what fantasy
land
you live in but here if we called the cops for every little thing that
went
wrong, every little push and shove, the state would be paying them
overtime
constantly.


ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because
what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your
son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now
ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

So I am wrong?....fine, but AT LEAST I offered it to him as something I
would be willing to do.....you complained how many post ago that women
have
this right to deny the father to sign his rights away, but now that I tell
you I offered it to him it is a whole different story. I am sure that if
he
would have agreed we could have found a way to make it happen. He probably
would have simply had to pay his back support up to date....but I am sure
you have something to say about that too.....Ronni


Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

It *does* sound like you think it worse if a man hits a woman. No matter who
abuses whom, or why, it is abuse, period. Size not withstanding. Generally,
women are quick to yell abuse when men hit women but try to excuse their
size for claiming no abuse when a woman hits a man. It's simply smoke and
mirrors. Regardless the claimed "reason", there *is* no reason to resort to
violence for words spoken no matter how offensive one finds them. IMO, of
course.
Phil #3

"Ronni" wrote in message
...

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
If you see no reason...

snip

...to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

Once again you blow things out of proportion. You act as though you
have never gotten mad, upset or angered with anyone in your life. I was
simply demonstrating that in fact you did, because everyone does at one
point or another.


You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I
can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone ONE
time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb
woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

I didn't have a get out of jail free card....Have you ever noticed when a
man hits woman there is generally a mark of some sort left behind? Let me
explain further...men are generally stronger than women. LET ME STRESS I
SAID GENERALLY He had no mark on him....and besides around here we don't
run
to the cops for every little problem we have. I don't know what fantasy
land
you live in but here if we called the cops for every little thing that
went
wrong, every little push and shove, the state would be paying them
overtime
constantly.


ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because
what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your
son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now
ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

So I am wrong?....fine, but AT LEAST I offered it to him as something I
would be willing to do.....you complained how many post ago that women
have
this right to deny the father to sign his rights away, but now that I tell
you I offered it to him it is a whole different story. I am sure that if
he
would have agreed we could have found a way to make it happen. He probably
would have simply had to pay his back support up to date....but I am sure
you have something to say about that too.....Ronni


Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

You missed something somewhere...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
If you see no reason...

snip

...to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

Once again you blow things out of proportion. You act as though you
have never gotten mad, upset or angered with anyone in your life. I was
simply demonstrating that in fact you did, because everyone does at one
point or another.

I never claimed to have never gotten angry. I only claimed to have
never punched somebody in the face as a response to my anger. Yes,
everyone gets angry. No, NOT everyone handles it by becoming physically
violent.

You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone ONE
time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb
woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

I didn't have a get out of jail free card....

Sure you did - he didn't press charges because he knew the legal system
would never pursue it.

Have you ever noticed when a
man hits woman there is generally a mark of some sort left behind?

Sorry, I don't hang out with people like that...except for my EX-wife.

Let me
explain further...men are generally stronger than women. LET ME STRESS I
SAID GENERALLY He had no mark on him....and besides around here we don't run
to the cops for every little problem we have. I don't know what fantasy land
you live in but here if we called the cops for every little thing that went
wrong, every little push and shove, the state would be paying them overtime
constantly.

Well, in THIS "here", if a man hits a woman in the face and she calls
the cops HE spends the night in jail. A woman has to hit a guy in the
face with a hubcap AND be a local celebrity in order to even get
booked. Sorry to here that women where you come from can be hit in the
face by their boyfriends and have no legal protection to call on...you
might want to start an initiative petition and get some up-to-date laws
on the books where you come from. Most states don't take it so lightly
when somebody hits somebody else in the face.

ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because
what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now
ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

So I am wrong?....fine, but AT LEAST I offered it to him as something I
would be willing to do.....you complained how many post ago that women have
this right to deny the father to sign his rights away, but now that I tell
you I offered it to him it is a whole different story. I am sure that if he
would have agreed we could have found a way to make it happen. He probably
would have simply had to pay his back support up to date....but I am sure
you have something to say about that too.....Ronni

Only "Check the laws in your state."

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

You missed something somewhere...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
If you see no reason...

snip

...to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

Once again you blow things out of proportion. You act as though you
have never gotten mad, upset or angered with anyone in your life. I was
simply demonstrating that in fact you did, because everyone does at one
point or another.

I never claimed to have never gotten angry. I only claimed to have
never punched somebody in the face as a response to my anger. Yes,
everyone gets angry. No, NOT everyone handles it by becoming physically
violent.

You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone ONE
time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb
woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

I didn't have a get out of jail free card....

Sure you did - he didn't press charges because he knew the legal system
would never pursue it.

Have you ever noticed when a
man hits woman there is generally a mark of some sort left behind?

Sorry, I don't hang out with people like that...except for my EX-wife.

Let me
explain further...men are generally stronger than women. LET ME STRESS I
SAID GENERALLY He had no mark on him....and besides around here we don't run
to the cops for every little problem we have. I don't know what fantasy land
you live in but here if we called the cops for every little thing that went
wrong, every little push and shove, the state would be paying them overtime
constantly.

Well, in THIS "here", if a man hits a woman in the face and she calls
the cops HE spends the night in jail. A woman has to hit a guy in the
face with a hubcap AND be a local celebrity in order to even get
booked. Sorry to here that women where you come from can be hit in the
face by their boyfriends and have no legal protection to call on...you
might want to start an initiative petition and get some up-to-date laws
on the books where you come from. Most states don't take it so lightly
when somebody hits somebody else in the face.

ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because
what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now
ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

So I am wrong?....fine, but AT LEAST I offered it to him as something I
would be willing to do.....you complained how many post ago that women have
this right to deny the father to sign his rights away, but now that I tell
you I offered it to him it is a whole different story. I am sure that if he
would have agreed we could have found a way to make it happen. He probably
would have simply had to pay his back support up to date....but I am sure
you have something to say about that too.....Ronni

Only "Check the laws in your state."

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble wrote in message ...
Below...

TeacherMama wrote:

Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.

But that makes the "acceptableness" of his actions dependent on whether
mom is getting mad - makes his choices grey instead of black-and-white.
It may not be a totally wrong thing for her to do, but it certainly
makes it more difficult for the boy to see the cause-and-effect results
of his actions and the consequences if they are "wrong" actions.

In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

Why not "(child's name), do you think (whatever action) is a good choice
or can you think of a more positive choice?"

Actually, Mel, I do have a reason for wording it the way I do. I want
the child to recognize their unwise choice. If I always tell them
what action I want them to change, they are not learning the valuable
lesson of stopping and thinking about their actions for themselves. It
would be far easier for me to say "Don't do A, do B or C instead."
But the whole purpose is to create a pattern where the child stops,
thinks, and chooses better--at the moment guided from the outside,
but, eventually, guided from the inside.


You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does.

Not sure that I made that statement. What I did state was that I think
WAY too many kids are displaying inappropriate behavior that is a
reaction to environment - kids who would be displaying appropriate
behavior if their environment was different - but being diagnosed as
having a chemical problem that requires medication. I know this happens
for a fact. I've watched a perfectly decent little boy's environment
change drastically and within less than a year he was on "meds"...and
mom was getting that extra "disability" check every month.

And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child.

No argument there, just with the percentage of "diagnosed" ADHD/ODD
cases that are a result of environment and the attempt at treating them
by changing the kid instead of changing the environment.

The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

That's what I'm trying to say. There are far too many adults ready to
holler "ADHD" because it's much simpler to shove a pill down junior's
throat twice a day than it is to go through the difficulty of changing
his behavior by changing their own.

I worked at a school one time where the parents every child who did
not fit nicely into the "good student" mode, or displayed "over active
tendencies", were requested to take the child for an "evaluation" for
ADHD. You should have seen how many of those children were on
medication! (This was a very wealthy area, and a private school) I say
we should go back to letting kids be kids, give them the opportunity
to be active in the exploration of their world, instead of just
automatons in desks--and save the meds for those who *really* need it!

Mel Gamble wrote in message ...
Below...

TeacherMama wrote:

Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.

But that makes the "acceptableness" of his actions dependent on whether
mom is getting mad - makes his choices grey instead of black-and-white.
It may not be a totally wrong thing for her to do, but it certainly
makes it more difficult for the boy to see the cause-and-effect results
of his actions and the consequences if they are "wrong" actions.

In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

Why not "(child's name), do you think (whatever action) is a good choice
or can you think of a more positive choice?"

Actually, Mel, I do have a reason for wording it the way I do. I want
the child to recognize their unwise choice. If I always tell them
what action I want them to change, they are not learning the valuable
lesson of stopping and thinking about their actions for themselves. It
would be far easier for me to say "Don't do A, do B or C instead."
But the whole purpose is to create a pattern where the child stops,
thinks, and chooses better--at the moment guided from the outside,
but, eventually, guided from the inside.


You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does.

Not sure that I made that statement. What I did state was that I think
WAY too many kids are displaying inappropriate behavior that is a
reaction to environment - kids who would be displaying appropriate
behavior if their environment was different - but being diagnosed as
having a chemical problem that requires medication. I know this happens
for a fact. I've watched a perfectly decent little boy's environment
change drastically and within less than a year he was on "meds"...and
mom was getting that extra "disability" check every month.

And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child.

No argument there, just with the percentage of "diagnosed" ADHD/ODD
cases that are a result of environment and the attempt at treating them
by changing the kid instead of changing the environment.

The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

That's what I'm trying to say. There are far too many adults ready to
holler "ADHD" because it's much simpler to shove a pill down junior's
throat twice a day than it is to go through the difficulty of changing
his behavior by changing their own.

I worked at a school one time where the parents every child who did
not fit nicely into the "good student" mode, or displayed "over active
tendencies", were requested to take the child for an "evaluation" for
ADHD. You should have seen how many of those children were on
medication! (This was a very wealthy area, and a private school) I say
we should go back to letting kids be kids, give them the opportunity
to be active in the exploration of their world, instead of just
automatons in desks--and save the meds for those who *really* need it!

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
You missed something somewhere...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
If you see no reason...

snip

...to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

Once again you blow things out of proportion. You act as though you
have never gotten mad, upset or angered with anyone in your life. I was
simply demonstrating that in fact you did, because everyone does at one
point or another.

I never claimed to have never gotten angry. I only claimed to have
never punched somebody in the face as a response to my anger. Yes,
everyone gets angry. No, NOT everyone handles it by becoming physically
violent.

And just because someone does that once doesnt mean they ever do it again.
If you were in my situation, knew the entire background prior, and someone
said such a thing about one of your children you would've had stood and
taken it lightly either. I am NOT saying you would've hit him, but I bet you
would've came out with a few choice words at the least. And NO I am not
saying our background justifies what I did either.

You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I
can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone
ONE
time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb
woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card
is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

I didn't have a get out of jail free card....

Sure you did - he didn't press charges because he knew the legal system
would never pursue it.

See below--he didnt press charges because of his 'pride'.

Have you ever noticed when a
man hits woman there is generally a mark of some sort left behind?

Sorry, I don't hang out with people like that...except for my EX-wife.

Let me
explain further...men are generally stronger than women. LET ME STRESS I
SAID GENERALLY He had no mark on him....and besides around here we don't
run
to the cops for every little problem we have. I don't know what fantasy
land
you live in but here if we called the cops for every little thing that
went
wrong, every little push and shove, the state would be paying them
overtime
constantly.

Well, in THIS "here", if a man hits a woman in the face and she calls
the cops HE spends the night in jail. A woman has to hit a guy in the
face with a hubcap AND be a local celebrity in order to even get
booked. Sorry to here that women where you come from can be hit in the
face by their boyfriends and have no legal protection to call on...you
might want to start an initiative petition and get some up-to-date laws
on the books where you come from. Most states don't take it so lightly
when somebody hits somebody else in the face.

I sat here and typed up a whole scenario on what it took to get a PFAO on my
ex and then decided that you probably don't want to hear it. But let me say
this, yes, of course it is wrong, and noone should take striking another
lightly, but it took ALOT more than getting hit, thrown out of a moving
vehcile, and numerous death threats for me to get any help. He got no fines,
no jail time, just a efw bucks in court costs and the PFAO. He violated the
PFAO by calling me and threatening me again and the cops told me I should've
called earlier. It was late at night and they just had shift change and
there weren't enough calls to deal with such petty things I was told.
Anyway, around there most people arent so quick to call the cops because
most times they are busy elsewhere.No that doesnt justify striking someone,
but I suppose if we had better 'protection' alot more would get done when
someone is struck or a fight takes place or someone is abused. I have moved
from that town since then, any ideas why? LOL :-) Where I live now the
police are quicker to help because it is a smaller, quiter town with their
own police force. They aren't usually wrapped up in something that takes
importance over death threats.
As for my ex when I struck him, sure, he couldve gotten me in alot of
trouble, we were in his driveway because I drove him home from the bar (he
had a few too many) but where he lives they take things into their own
hands. They would rather seek revenge, I guess it is safe to say they are
too 'proud' to call the police.

ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because
what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your
son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now
ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing
it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

So I am wrong?....fine, but AT LEAST I offered it to him as something I
would be willing to do.....you complained how many post ago that women
have
this right to deny the father to sign his rights away, but now that I
tell
you I offered it to him it is a whole different story. I am sure that if
he
would have agreed we could have found a way to make it happen. He
probably
would have simply had to pay his back support up to date....but I am
sure
you have something to say about that too.....Ronni

Only "Check the laws in your state."

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
You missed something somewhere...

Ronni wrote:

"Mel Gamble" wrote in message
...
If you see no reason...

snip

...to give a person more consideration than you'd give a fly, I doubt
that it makes much difference WHO the person is.

Once again you blow things out of proportion. You act as though you
have never gotten mad, upset or angered with anyone in your life. I was
simply demonstrating that in fact you did, because everyone does at one
point or another.

I never claimed to have never gotten angry. I only claimed to have
never punched somebody in the face as a response to my anger. Yes,
everyone gets angry. No, NOT everyone handles it by becoming physically
violent.

And just because someone does that once doesnt mean they ever do it again.
If you were in my situation, knew the entire background prior, and someone
said such a thing about one of your children you would've had stood and
taken it lightly either. I am NOT saying you would've hit him, but I bet you
would've came out with a few choice words at the least. And NO I am not
saying our background justifies what I did either.

You smile each and every single day all day and all night no
matter what problems are in your life ;-)
Get a grip on life--He didn't even have a mark on his face--I
can't
believe
that someone would judge someone else because they hit someone
ONE
time.

People end up in jail for just that all the time.

Yes they do, shall I send you a picture of us at the time. A 130 lb
woman
hitting a 230 lb man. I'm sure it hurt his ego more than anything.

Just the same as a 150-pound man hitting a 300-pound woman? You think
the difference in size will keep him out of jail? CLUE: it's not the
size that would keep you out of jail - your get-out-of-jail-free card
is
your gender. It is a fact of how our legal system operates and it is
WRONG.

I didn't have a get out of jail free card....

Sure you did - he didn't press charges because he knew the legal system
would never pursue it.

See below--he didnt press charges because of his 'pride'.

Have you ever noticed when a
man hits woman there is generally a mark of some sort left behind?

Sorry, I don't hang out with people like that...except for my EX-wife.

Let me
explain further...men are generally stronger than women. LET ME STRESS I
SAID GENERALLY He had no mark on him....and besides around here we don't
run
to the cops for every little problem we have. I don't know what fantasy
land
you live in but here if we called the cops for every little thing that
went
wrong, every little push and shove, the state would be paying them
overtime
constantly.

Well, in THIS "here", if a man hits a woman in the face and she calls
the cops HE spends the night in jail. A woman has to hit a guy in the
face with a hubcap AND be a local celebrity in order to even get
booked. Sorry to here that women where you come from can be hit in the
face by their boyfriends and have no legal protection to call on...you
might want to start an initiative petition and get some up-to-date laws
on the books where you come from. Most states don't take it so lightly
when somebody hits somebody else in the face.

I sat here and typed up a whole scenario on what it took to get a PFAO on my
ex and then decided that you probably don't want to hear it. But let me say
this, yes, of course it is wrong, and noone should take striking another
lightly, but it took ALOT more than getting hit, thrown out of a moving
vehcile, and numerous death threats for me to get any help. He got no fines,
no jail time, just a efw bucks in court costs and the PFAO. He violated the
PFAO by calling me and threatening me again and the cops told me I should've
called earlier. It was late at night and they just had shift change and
there weren't enough calls to deal with such petty things I was told.
Anyway, around there most people arent so quick to call the cops because
most times they are busy elsewhere.No that doesnt justify striking someone,
but I suppose if we had better 'protection' alot more would get done when
someone is struck or a fight takes place or someone is abused. I have moved
from that town since then, any ideas why? LOL :-) Where I live now the
police are quicker to help because it is a smaller, quiter town with their
own police force. They aren't usually wrapped up in something that takes
importance over death threats.
As for my ex when I struck him, sure, he couldve gotten me in alot of
trouble, we were in his driveway because I drove him home from the bar (he
had a few too many) but where he lives they take things into their own
hands. They would rather seek revenge, I guess it is safe to say they are
too 'proud' to call the police.

ignorant how? Ignorant because
I was willing to let him sign away his rights? ignorant because
what?

Ignorant in thinking that the state would let you sign away your
son's
rights.


Oh thats right, because im not an expert in the situation I am now
ignorant.
I don't know how it works, all I know is I asked him to do it.

And you keep yapping about how he is such an ass for not doing
it...quit
yapping - you're wrong to consider it an option YOU can offer.

So I am wrong?....fine, but AT LEAST I offered it to him as something I
would be willing to do.....you complained how many post ago that women
have
this right to deny the father to sign his rights away, but now that I
tell
you I offered it to him it is a whole different story. I am sure that if
he
would have agreed we could have found a way to make it happen. He
probably
would have simply had to pay his back support up to date....but I am
sure
you have something to say about that too.....Ronni

Only "Check the laws in your state."

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Mel Gamble

Ronni


Mel Gamble

"TeacherMama" wrote in message
om...
Mel Gamble wrote in message
...
Below...

TeacherMama wrote:

Dealing with an ADHD/ODD child is difficult under the best of
circumstances. You are correct in your statement that consistency is
of key importance. In my classroom, I make it clear what choices are
acceptable, and the consequences of both acceptable and unacceptable
choices. If the child chooses outside of the acceptable area, the
promised consequences will follow, as the night, the day. The idea is
not punishment--it is to establish that choices bring predictable
results--and it is to help the ADHD/ODD child begin to learn self
discipline. I don't think that Ronni is punishing her son based on her
anger. "Now you're making me mad, do you need a time out" seems to be
the words she uses consistently to help him reevaluate his choices.

But that makes the "acceptableness" of his actions dependent on whether
mom is getting mad - makes his choices grey instead of black-and-white.
It may not be a totally wrong thing for her to do, but it certainly
makes it more difficult for the boy to see the cause-and-effect results
of his actions and the consequences if they are "wrong" actions.

In my classroom, I always say "I am not happy with your choices." This
gives the child a chance to change his choice before the inevitable
consequence falls.

Why not "(child's name), do you think (whatever action) is a good choice
or can you think of a more positive choice?"

Actually, Mel, I do have a reason for wording it the way I do. I want
the child to recognize their unwise choice. If I always tell them
what action I want them to change, they are not learning the valuable
lesson of stopping and thinking about their actions for themselves. It
would be far easier for me to say "Don't do A, do B or C instead."
But the whole purpose is to create a pattern where the child stops,
thinks, and chooses better--at the moment guided from the outside,
but, eventually, guided from the inside.


You mentioned in an earlier posting that environment plays a role in
working with ADHD children. Of course it does.

Not sure that I made that statement. What I did state was that I think
WAY too many kids are displaying inappropriate behavior that is a
reaction to environment - kids who would be displaying appropriate
behavior if their environment was different - but being diagnosed as
having a chemical problem that requires medication. I know this happens
for a fact. I've watched a perfectly decent little boy's environment
change drastically and within less than a year he was on "meds"...and
mom was getting that extra "disability" check every month.

And it helps if
everyone involved with the child in a supervisory way is on the same
page and uses the same consequences. But even the best environment
will not "cure" a truly ADHD/ODD child.

No argument there, just with the percentage of "diagnosed" ADHD/ODD
cases that are a result of environment and the attempt at treating them
by changing the kid instead of changing the environment.

The child still needs time to
internalize the cpoing skills that will help him deal with his
difficulties.

One of the problems faced by those who are dealing with true ADHD
children is the popularity of the term. I have had parents bring their
little darling to my classroom, explaining that he is ADHD, but the
doctor doesn't want to give him medicine. Then when the child acts up
to the point that I bring the parents in, they say "But we *told* you
he is ADHD!" As if that gives him leave to do anything he wants
without no consequence.

That's what I'm trying to say. There are far too many adults ready to
holler "ADHD" because it's much simpler to shove a pill down junior's
throat twice a day than it is to go through the difficulty of changing
his behavior by changing their own.

I worked at a school one time where the parents every child who did
not fit nicely into the "good student" mode, or displayed "over active
tendencies", were requested to take the child for an "evaluation" for
ADHD. You should have seen how many of those children were on
medication! (This was a very wealthy area, and a private school) I say
we should go back to letting kids be kids, give them the opportunity
to be active in the exploration of their world, instead of just
automatons in desks--and save the meds for those who *really* need it!

AMEN to that!! They are too quick to medicate these children with
stimulants! My son shows a HUGE improvement on his meds and I am standing my
ground that he does need meds to succeed in school, BUT I do wish I wouldn't
have been so quick to agree to put him on the meds until I had time to do
more research myself. My neice is being evaluated in the next few weeks. My
experiences with my son and the other children I met at the hospital when my
son was in...I don't think she is ADHD...I think she is being a kid and
exploring their world (maybe a little louder than everyone else) and she is
doing fine in school. A's B's and a C here and there where my son without
meds would get D's and F's -- if he even finished the work. She is nothing
like any ADHD child I ever met, but I am also not a doctor. But yes, they
shouldnt be so quick to medicate these children. I fought myself about
medicating my son for months. There is a huge improvement and I am glad we
found somehting to help him (especially in school).

Ronni