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#11
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child support debt?
In article , Bob Whiteside
says... "Banty" wrote in message ... You're not living there; you don't know what the money got spent on or even if it still wasn't spent for the benefit of your daughter. You mean father's should not believe their children when they tell the dads their mom's have transitioned from ripping off the fathers to ripping off their own children? Your assumptions are far off the mark. My daughter asked to come live with me and she has given me more details than I wanted to know about the mother games. She has volunteered a lot to confirm my suspicions. OK. Sure, things like that happen. But I've seen the opposite too (and not all teens are particularly good at reporting what's really going, let alone a younger kid). It occured to me - the delta the teen doesn't see may be going into a college fund. Not that that was your situation. But in general, the NCP does *not* know what the daily expenses and hassles are and can get focusses on something like a boyfriend's smoking habit. It's actually one reason why I've always thought a trustee or accounting would be good. It might be an education for the NCP. Not all NCPs are rearing children in their household to have a clue sometimes. And if the CP is siphoning off to him or herself, that will be detected. Banty |
#12
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child
In article , Sarah Gray
says... Bob Whiteside wrote: "Banty" wrote in message ... You're not living there; you don't know what the money got spent on or even if it still wasn't spent for the benefit of your daughter. You mean father's should not believe their children when they tell the dads their mom's have transitioned from ripping off the fathers to ripping off their own children? Your assumptions are far off the mark. My daughter asked to come live with me and she has given me more details than I wanted to know about the mother games. She has volunteered a lot to confirm my suspicions. At the same time, Bob, not *all* CPs are like that. Just saying... I think there are a lot of examples of *all* of the abuses and frauds we hear about. On both sides. Being as we're talking about humans, and angry and dissapointed humans often, at that. Banty |
#13
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a childsupport debt?
Banty wrote:
In article , Bob Whiteside says... "Banty" wrote in message ... You're not living there; you don't know what the money got spent on or even if it still wasn't spent for the benefit of your daughter. You mean father's should not believe their children when they tell the dads their mom's have transitioned from ripping off the fathers to ripping off their own children? Your assumptions are far off the mark. My daughter asked to come live with me and she has given me more details than I wanted to know about the mother games. She has volunteered a lot to confirm my suspicions. OK. Sure, things like that happen. But I've seen the opposite too (and not all teens are particularly good at reporting what's really going, let alone a younger kid). It occured to me - the delta the teen doesn't see may be going into a college fund. Not that that was your situation. But in general, the NCP does *not* know what the daily expenses and hassles are and can get focusses on something like a boyfriend's smoking habit. It's actually one reason why I've always thought a trustee or accounting would be good. It might be an education for the NCP. Not all NCPs are rearing children in their household to have a clue sometimes. And if the CP is siphoning off to him or herself, that will be detected. Not always, Banty. There needs to be some kind of oversight, particularly if NCPs are going to be held to such a high standard of "responsibility". -- Sarah Gray |
#14
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child support debt?
In article , teachrmama says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Bob Whiteside says... "Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Bob Whiteside says... "Banty" wrote in message ... Actually my scenario is about reality and how stated objectives in the CS system are just "feel good" messages that get ignored in practice. And the scenario points out the reason so many CP mothers are against any form of accountability for how CS is spent. They want to treat CS received as unallocated family support which is really the definition of alimony. Well, no, alimony is for support of the *ex spouse*. That is only one of several reasons alimony can be awarded. My point is mothers are against accountability for how CS is spent because they want to treat the money received as unallocated family support, i.e. they can use it any way they want at their personal discretion. Well, the accountability would have to be reasonable. IF a trustee or overseer is expecting daughter number one to get steak and daughter number two to get mac and cheese, that woudl be a problem. Maybe those who are opposing accountability are reading what *you* write. I'm beginning to think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. This has nothing to do with what the children eat. I'm trying to illustrate what kind of thing would happen in order to not comingle funds in your scenario. Things like rent and heat not being divisible between two kids in a household. It really shouldn't be that much of a problem. Mom simply adds more funds to child # 2's share of income, and things come out equal, right? Rather than taking from child 1 to make things even for child 2, she *adds to* child 2. If she *has* those funds. She's got to earn more, then, while caring for two little kids. But the calculation for the other child is based on a lower standard of living, lower income father. If she doesn't have extra funds, should she maintain different standards of living? After all, she was aware that she had an obligation to child 1 before child 2 came along, right? The second is the one with the low-income father, remember. Look - *she's and the daughters* are the ones that have to deal with the effects of all of these expectations. (Meaning also she's the one with the incentive to increase earnings.) Did you read Bob's idea of lowering the standard of living for *both* to put 600 bucks in the bank every month, becaue commingling funds would be a greater sin than having a lower standard of living for even the older daughter? What do you think of that? The funds get comingled the minute she pays the landlord. Banty |
#15
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child
In article , Sarah Gray says...
Banty wrote: In article , Bob Whiteside says... "Banty" wrote in message ... You're not living there; you don't know what the money got spent on or even if it still wasn't spent for the benefit of your daughter. You mean father's should not believe their children when they tell the dads their mom's have transitioned from ripping off the fathers to ripping off their own children? Your assumptions are far off the mark. My daughter asked to come live with me and she has given me more details than I wanted to know about the mother games. She has volunteered a lot to confirm my suspicions. OK. Sure, things like that happen. But I've seen the opposite too (and not all teens are particularly good at reporting what's really going, let alone a younger kid). It occured to me - the delta the teen doesn't see may be going into a college fund. Not that that was your situation. But in general, the NCP does *not* know what the daily expenses and hassles are and can get focusses on something like a boyfriend's smoking habit. It's actually one reason why I've always thought a trustee or accounting would be good. It might be an education for the NCP. Not all NCPs are rearing children in their household to have a clue sometimes. And if the CP is siphoning off to him or herself, that will be detected. Not always, Banty. There needs to be some kind of oversight, particularly if NCPs are going to be held to such a high standard of "responsibility". Read my last paragraph again. Banty |
#16
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child support debt?
If she *has* those funds. She's got to earn more, then, while caring for two little kids. But the calculation for the other child is based on a lower standard of living, lower income father. If she doesn't have extra funds, should she maintain different standards of living? Of course! You yourself maintain that the NCP should *step up* and move to the childs school district, get a two bedroom apartment, change jobs If need be to be able to spend more time with the child. If you think the NCP should maintain a different standard of living, even If they may not "have the funds" shouldn't the CP? |
#17
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child support debt?
In article , Shadow36 says...
If she *has* those funds. She's got to earn more, then, while caring for two little kids. But the calculation for the other child is based on a lower standard of living, lower income father. If she doesn't have extra funds, should she maintain different standards of living? Of course! You yourself maintain that the NCP should *step up* and move to the childs school district, get a two bedroom apartment, change jobs If need be to be able to spend more time with the child. If you think the NCP should maintain a different standard of living, even If they may not "have the funds" shouldn't the CP? She should increase to that income, and *more* to get the best life possible for her kids. That's what I think. And the girls should share. Banty |
#18
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child support debt?
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , teachrmama says... "Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Bob Whiteside says... "Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Bob Whiteside says... "Banty" wrote in message ... Actually my scenario is about reality and how stated objectives in the CS system are just "feel good" messages that get ignored in practice. And the scenario points out the reason so many CP mothers are against any form of accountability for how CS is spent. They want to treat CS received as unallocated family support which is really the definition of alimony. Well, no, alimony is for support of the *ex spouse*. That is only one of several reasons alimony can be awarded. My point is mothers are against accountability for how CS is spent because they want to treat the money received as unallocated family support, i.e. they can use it any way they want at their personal discretion. Well, the accountability would have to be reasonable. IF a trustee or overseer is expecting daughter number one to get steak and daughter number two to get mac and cheese, that woudl be a problem. Maybe those who are opposing accountability are reading what *you* write. I'm beginning to think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. This has nothing to do with what the children eat. I'm trying to illustrate what kind of thing would happen in order to not comingle funds in your scenario. Things like rent and heat not being divisible between two kids in a household. It really shouldn't be that much of a problem. Mom simply adds more funds to child # 2's share of income, and things come out equal, right? Rather than taking from child 1 to make things even for child 2, she *adds to* child 2. If she *has* those funds. She's got to earn more, then, while caring for two little kids. But the calculation for the other child is based on a lower standard of living, lower income father. If she doesn't have extra funds, should she maintain different standards of living? The CS system says that the standard of living is what is necessary--not the NCP. You seem to be saying that the NCP *should* be required to pay the money to provide for that standard of living, but the CP should not be required to maintain it. So if you feel so strongly that children of the same mother should be kept at the same standard of living, why don't you feel that children of the same father are deserving of the same? Aren't all children equally valuable? After all, she was aware that she had an obligation to child 1 before child 2 came along, right? The second is the one with the low-income father, remember. Ah--but she *****KNEW**** she had the older child ****BEFORE**** she got together with the new guy. Her obligation to the older child was already established, period!! Remember, that's how courts deal with subsequent children, and you backed that up wholeheartedly in another post. More later--gotta get to school. |
#19
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child support debt?
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Shadow36 says... If she *has* those funds. She's got to earn more, then, while caring for two little kids. But the calculation for the other child is based on a lower standard of living, lower income father. If she doesn't have extra funds, should she maintain different standards of living? Of course! You yourself maintain that the NCP should *step up* and move to the childs school district, get a two bedroom apartment, change jobs If need be to be able to spend more time with the child. If you think the NCP should maintain a different standard of living, even If they may not "have the funds" shouldn't the CP? She should increase to that income, and *more* to get the best life possible for her kids. That's what I think. And the girls should share. Banty The one flaw to your logic Is that you think everyone be It CP or NCP should step up to a higher income. Thats a LOT more easier said than done. Didn't you say In another post that you own some properties etc? I bet that, while you may not be wealthy, you aren't hard up for money. That would explain why you think "basic needs" for a child Is 50 dollar school pictures, hundreds for summer camp, dance lessons, etc etc. It's just not so cut and dry as the NCP should move, get a better job, maintain a two person household on a single persons budget. When the ncp's talk about "basic needs" we aren't talking about feeding the kid cold cereal for breakfast, and mac and cheese for dinner and lunch everyday.. We aren't talking about a couch to sleep on, but, If thats all the ncp can provide, thats all they can provide! No amount of woulda, coulda, shoulda can prevent someone from becoming an NCP against thier will. and the same amount of woulda, coulda, shoulda can allow the NCP to provide anything beyond thier means. |
#20
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Does anybody have any useful advice on how to collect a child support debt?
In article , teachrmama says...
"Banty" wrote in message ... In article , teachrmama says... "Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Bob Whiteside says... "Banty" wrote in message ... In article , Bob Whiteside says... "Banty" wrote in message ... Actually my scenario is about reality and how stated objectives in the CS system are just "feel good" messages that get ignored in practice. And the scenario points out the reason so many CP mothers are against any form of accountability for how CS is spent. They want to treat CS received as unallocated family support which is really the definition of alimony. Well, no, alimony is for support of the *ex spouse*. That is only one of several reasons alimony can be awarded. My point is mothers are against accountability for how CS is spent because they want to treat the money received as unallocated family support, i.e. they can use it any way they want at their personal discretion. Well, the accountability would have to be reasonable. IF a trustee or overseer is expecting daughter number one to get steak and daughter number two to get mac and cheese, that woudl be a problem. Maybe those who are opposing accountability are reading what *you* write. I'm beginning to think you are arguing just for the sake of arguing. This has nothing to do with what the children eat. I'm trying to illustrate what kind of thing would happen in order to not comingle funds in your scenario. Things like rent and heat not being divisible between two kids in a household. It really shouldn't be that much of a problem. Mom simply adds more funds to child # 2's share of income, and things come out equal, right? Rather than taking from child 1 to make things even for child 2, she *adds to* child 2. If she *has* those funds. She's got to earn more, then, while caring for two little kids. But the calculation for the other child is based on a lower standard of living, lower income father. If she doesn't have extra funds, should she maintain different standards of living? The CS system says that the standard of living is what is necessary--not the NCP. You seem to be saying that the NCP *should* be required to pay the money to provide for that standard of living, but the CP should not be required to maintain it. So if you feel so strongly that children of the same mother should be kept at the same standard of living, why don't you feel that children of the same father are deserving of the same? Aren't all children equally valuable? After all, she was aware that she had an obligation to child 1 before child 2 came along, right? The second is the one with the low-income father, remember. Ah--but she *****KNEW**** she had the older child ****BEFORE**** she got together with the new guy. Her obligation to the older child was already established, period!! Remember, that's how courts deal with subsequent children, and you backed that up wholeheartedly in another post. Sure. Remember, the *new* daughter has a poorer father. Apparently she's to have a lower standard of living. Bob says - she has a share herself as to each child - $400 apiece. OK. No argument there. She has that although she "****KNEW****" about her earlier obligation to the older daughter. No argument there. The *question* is, what to do about two girls in her household, who are to be maintained at a different standard. Banty |
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