CS, salary and which way to go?

We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
couldn't care less what your new income is, and they use "potential"
income instead...

Salary currently at 30K plus comissions...

1st year total income 65K
2nd year total income 85K
3rd year total income 55K
4th year total income 89K

Current tax rate for all previous years, 33%...CSE morons base CS off
85K salary, although CSE office had records showing 3rd year would
definitely be around 55K salary (they had about 6mos of paystubs,
etc).

Now, offer is for either of the below...

1. same income except around 40K instead plus commissions...again,
same potential of comissions as previous...
2. fixed salary of 72K, no comissions...

Here's the catch, we are worried that if we do 1, and again instead of
having an 85/82K year, there is another 65/55K year, we'll be in a
huge bind, especially if crazy ex-wife tries to get more in CS as the
3 years is coming up next year (about 6mos after accepting the new
job). So, it could be that the idiots at CSE will look at the 89K and
raise CS and we could be majorly messed up financially again...This is
what happened in that 3rd year and yes, although the 4th year we made
it up, it was basically used to to get out of the hole that the
increase the 3rd year put us in...

Or, go for the 72K, no comissions...knowing that the morons at CSE
will probably claim he is UNDERemployed, and still based it off 89K,
but at least we'll know that we'll never be at 55K again and
therefore, not have as big a hit as we had before...

Which would you do?

On Apr 1, 1:58 am, whatamess wrote:

Which would you do?

hmm....The problem with this is it really depends on how much risk you
are prepared to take. Probably, considering all the stress and
frustration that the system causes, I would pick the 72K no
commissions. It also gets into second-guessing what will happen with
the economy in the next year or two which of course no one can be
certain.

The courts are inherently mistrustful of anything other than a
straightforward fixed hourly/annual salary and seem to compensate for
their mistrust by using imaginary numbers. I've seen the same thing
happen for people who are self-employed and the courts use the gross
income of the business rather than the individual's net pre-tax
earnings.

It is also possible to have the income attribution reduced by
providing testimony from an employment "expert" that he is in fact
working at an appropriate level of compensation for this training and
background. It's always a hard sell and is of course much worse when
commission sales are involved.

Good luck,

Don

"whatamess" wrote in message
...
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
couldn't care less what your new income is, and they use "potential"
income instead...

Salary currently at 30K plus comissions...

1st year total income 65K
2nd year total income 85K
3rd year total income 55K
4th year total income 89K

Current tax rate for all previous years, 33%...CSE morons base CS off
85K salary, although CSE office had records showing 3rd year would
definitely be around 55K salary (they had about 6mos of paystubs,
etc).

Now, offer is for either of the below...

1. same income except around 40K instead plus commissions...again,
same potential of comissions as previous...
2. fixed salary of 72K, no comissions...

Here's the catch, we are worried that if we do 1, and again instead of
having an 85/82K year, there is another 65/55K year, we'll be in a
huge bind, especially if crazy ex-wife tries to get more in CS as the
3 years is coming up next year (about 6mos after accepting the new
job). So, it could be that the idiots at CSE will look at the 89K and
raise CS and we could be majorly messed up financially again...This is
what happened in that 3rd year and yes, although the 4th year we made
it up, it was basically used to to get out of the hole that the
increase the 3rd year put us in...

Or, go for the 72K, no comissions...knowing that the morons at CSE
will probably claim he is UNDERemployed, and still based it off 89K,
but at least we'll know that we'll never be at 55K again and
therefore, not have as big a hit as we had before...

Which would you do?

I had this same problem. The issue is CSE and the courts don't understand
how some compensation works. They are trying to fit a way some people are
compensated into what is easy for them to understand. And what they know is
based on fixed salaries or hourly rates. I could bitch about this whole
scenario for a long time, but I'll resist and just give you an answer.

Pick the option that works the best for you if CSE won't budge. But I would
argue you can't pay CS out of money you don't receive. Argue commissions
are not guaranteed and are based on market conditions beyond your control.
Try to get them to agreed to a monthly CS guideline amount appropriate for
the base compensation. Then ask for a lower flat rate percentage to be paid
out of future commissions since the percent of gross comes down as income
goes up. Ask that language be placed in the CS order stating any change in
commission structure, calculation methodology, and market conditions be
considered a significant change of circumstance.

One other thing - If your husband is classified as an independent contractor
look for local jurisdiction rules that should allow him to deduct the cost
of doing business from his gross commissions.

On Apr 1, 2:45*pm, "Bob Whiteside" wrote:
"whatamess" wrote in message

...





We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
couldn't care less what your new income is, and they use "potential"
income instead...

Salary currently at 30K plus comissions...

1st year total income 65K
2nd year total income 85K
3rd year total income 55K
4th year total income 89K

Current tax rate for all previous years, 33%...CSE morons base CS off
85K salary, although CSE office had records showing 3rd year would
definitely be around 55K salary (they had about 6mos of paystubs,
etc).

Now, offer is for either of the below...

1. *same income except around 40K instead plus commissions...again,
same potential of comissions as previous...
2. *fixed salary of 72K, no comissions...

Here's the catch, we are worried that if we do 1, and again instead of
having an 85/82K year, there is another 65/55K year, we'll be in a
huge bind, especially if crazy ex-wife tries to get more in CS as the
3 years is coming up next year (about 6mos after accepting the new
job). *So, it could be that the idiots at CSE will look at the 89K and
raise CS and we could be majorly messed up financially again...This is
what happened in that 3rd year and yes, although the 4th year we made
it up, it was basically used to to get out of the hole that the
increase the 3rd year put us in...

Or, go for the 72K, no comissions...knowing that the morons at CSE
will probably claim he is UNDERemployed, and still based it off 89K,
but at least we'll know that we'll never be at 55K again and
therefore, not have as big a hit as we had before...

Which would you do?

I had this same problem. *The issue is CSE and the courts don't understand
how some compensation works. *They are trying to fit a way some people are
compensated into what is easy for them to understand. *And what they know is
based on fixed salaries or hourly rates. *I could bitch about this whole
scenario for a long time, but I'll resist and just give you an answer.

Pick the option that works the best for you if CSE won't budge. *But I would
argue you can't pay CS out of money you don't receive. *Argue commissions
are not guaranteed and are based on market conditions beyond your control.
Try to get them to agreed to a monthly CS guideline amount appropriate for
the base compensation. *Then ask for a lower flat rate percentage to be paid
out of future commissions since the percent of gross comes down as income
goes up. *Ask that language be placed in the CS order stating any change in
commission structure, calculation methodology, and market conditions be
considered a significant change of circumstance.

One other thing - If your husband is classified as an independent contractor
look for local jurisdiction rules that should allow him to deduct the cost
of doing business from his gross commissions.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

He's not an independent contractor, wish that was the case actually.
In addition, we tried to get those morons to do 20% of whatever his
salary per month was,
as that is ACTUALLY one of the things that the CS order states they
can do, and they would
NOT do it...they want a flat amount for the idiot BM...of course, that
flat amount cannot
be the LOWER flat amount, it has to be the HIGHER flat amount.

I think that I will try to get him to go for that salary for a while
in the hopes that
it slows down this whole CS mess...

By the way, my husband has no college degree...While living with the
idiot ex-wife,
his salary with overtime was only about 22K per year...the highest it
ever was with
overtime (he worked about 60-70 hours a week) was only about 30K.
However,
when he lost his job, I paid his cs for almost a year so that he could
do some
web development course and then helped him, encouraged him and guided
him
as to what I thought he would be good at based on his personality,
etc...needless to
say, after a year of being with me, his salary began to
increase...every year
it has increased at least 10-15K approx...Not sure why the idiot ex-
wife is entitled
to ANY of that increase...and no, his daughter WOULD NOT have had a
similar lifestyle
because he was with idiot ex-wife for at least 6 years and his salary
NEVER went up
except with overtime and not much there either...

Anyway, sorry, I think you can see my major resentment coming out
here.
I am sick of hearing it's the LIFESTYLE that the child would've
enjoyed had her
parents not divorced and had they not divorced, my DH would STILL be
making 30K a year
with lots of overtime...

Also, when CS was last calculated, the HR department told the CSE
morons that his salary
was 55K, however, 40% of that was in comissions, so his real base
salary was closer to 30K...
they didn't care...they still used the 85K he had made the previous
year including commissions...

Well, I am a bit afraid of what the crazy woman will do next, but I
have told my husband to
ensure that BEFORE they go to court, he meets up with her and tells
her to take him to court
and to ensure she ALSO takes her deadbeat husband who is wanted for 2
child support
cases that he hasn't paid in years...I have a feeling at that point,
she'll drop it...

On Mar 31, 11:58 pm, whatamess wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
couldn't care less what your new income is, and they use "potential"
income instead...

Salary currently at 30K plus comissions...

1st year total income 65K
2nd year total income 85K
3rd year total income 55K
4th year total income 89K

Current tax rate for all previous years, 33%...CSE morons base CS off
85K salary, although CSE office had records showing 3rd year would
definitely be around 55K salary (they had about 6mos of paystubs,
etc).

Now, offer is for either of the below...

1. same income except around 40K instead plus commissions...again,
same potential of comissions as previous...
2. fixed salary of 72K, no comissions...

Here's the catch, we are worried that if we do 1, and again instead of
having an 85/82K year, there is another 65/55K year, we'll be in a
huge bind, especially if crazy ex-wife tries to get more in CS as the
3 years is coming up next year (about 6mos after accepting the new
job). So, it could be that the idiots at CSE will look at the 89K and
raise CS and we could be majorly messed up financially again...This is
what happened in that 3rd year and yes, although the 4th year we made
it up, it was basically used to to get out of the hole that the
increase the 3rd year put us in...

Or, go for the 72K, no comissions...knowing that the morons at CSE
will probably claim he is UNDERemployed, and still based it off 89K,
but at least we'll know that we'll never be at 55K again and
therefore, not have as big a hit as we had before...

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case." I hung up on the bitch. I
guess I lost this one. I have about 12 more yrs of this bullcrap. It's
time to change the playing field.

After reading this Ghandi quote, I started thinking this way.."It's
our moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Good luck and take care.

"scaredfather" wrote

...............................
If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case."

===
This was said to intentionally discourage you from filing. They got what
they wanted. Fact is, under law they have to schedule your hearing within a
certain time frame and I'm certain it is less than a year.

"scaredfather" wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 11:58 pm, whatamess wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
couldn't care less what your new income is, and they use "potential"
income instead...

Salary currently at 30K plus comissions...

1st year total income 65K
2nd year total income 85K
3rd year total income 55K
4th year total income 89K

Current tax rate for all previous years, 33%...CSE morons base CS off
85K salary, although CSE office had records showing 3rd year would
definitely be around 55K salary (they had about 6mos of paystubs,
etc).

Now, offer is for either of the below...

1. same income except around 40K instead plus commissions...again,
same potential of comissions as previous...
2. fixed salary of 72K, no comissions...

Here's the catch, we are worried that if we do 1, and again instead of
having an 85/82K year, there is another 65/55K year, we'll be in a
huge bind, especially if crazy ex-wife tries to get more in CS as the
3 years is coming up next year (about 6mos after accepting the new
job). So, it could be that the idiots at CSE will look at the 89K and
raise CS and we could be majorly messed up financially again...This is
what happened in that 3rd year and yes, although the 4th year we made
it up, it was basically used to to get out of the hole that the
increase the 3rd year put us in...

Or, go for the 72K, no comissions...knowing that the morons at CSE
will probably claim he is UNDERemployed, and still based it off 89K,
but at least we'll know that we'll never be at 55K again and
therefore, not have as big a hit as we had before...

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you

I hear that!! I did the same thing a few years back, and the lady told me
"You better start working double shifts". In my instance though, I called
her a dumbass bitch and THEN hung up on her.

Does anyone know how to find the email addresses of the case workers for DCSE
in Virginia. I know her name but do not kow their format!

scaredfather wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case." I hung up on the bitch. I
guess I lost this one. I have about 12 more yrs of this bullcrap. It's
time to change the playing field.

After reading this Ghandi quote, I started thinking this way.."It's
our moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Good luck and take care.

On Apr 2, 11:35*am, "jwhit" u42483@uwe wrote:
Does anyone know how to find the email addresses of the case workers for DCSE
in Virginia. *I know her name but do not kow their format!



scaredfather wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! *In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case." I hung up on the bitch. I
guess I lost this one. I have about 12 more yrs of this bullcrap. It's
time to change the playing field.

After reading this Ghandi quote, I started thinking this way.."It's
our moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Good luck and take care.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is all crazy...Actually, my mother who has always been the "poor
woman,
men are scum and should have to pay" has harassed me quite a bit about
the whole CS mess and me complaining. Her view was that you paid a
percentage
of your income, but that it was a reasonable percentage...that if you
changed jobs,
like in our case, due to move, etc...that they automatically reduced
the CS...that
the only thing counted in CS was normal wages, and you could deduct
your 401K
money, your retirement savings, the costs for YOUR stuff, house, blah,
blah...


Well, she's basically told me that I am making up this
nightmare...that
it can't POSSIBLY be this way...Until just now that I showed her ALL
THE LAWS
of the state of Texas...those that say it could even include CS that
YOU receive
on behalf of another child, rental property income, etc...she about
lost it!
HAHA! She feels we should go for custody, because surely we would get
it
since BM is a bad influence on SD...and that because we pay her, that
we'd be saving money anyway even if idiot BM didn't pay...YEAH RIGHT!
I pretty much told her that I would NOT do it...BM WILL PAY US or I
will
NOT do it...not because we need the money, but because of this
nightmare,
she has taken money that belongs to MY son, not her and has taken us
from perfect credit, savings, etc...to almost financial ruin and she
would NOT
be paying for SD, but paying ME back for all she stole...Of course, my
mother
STILL doesn't think that's fair to idiot BM...I think next time she
suggests
we take custody and we don't charge BM cs, I'll suggest SHE pay for
the
lawyer and that SHE pay CS to us, since she doesn't think BM should
pay it.

Again, I don't think it should be required, but at this point, sorry,
I will not
allow someone who has done such harm to my family financially to get
a free ride...


Anyway, sorry for the one who still has 12 years...we have 6 more
years,
if SD decides not to fail again in the next 6 years...and already will
be paying until she's
3 mos short of her 20tht birthday! How lovely...

"whatamess" wrote in message
...
On Apr 2, 11:35 am, "jwhit" u42483@uwe wrote:
Does anyone know how to find the email addresses of the case workers for
DCSE
in Virginia. I know her name but do not kow their format!



scaredfather wrote:
We are trying to figure out the best way to go through a move...what
would you do, based on the fact that the morons at the CSE office
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]

Which would you do?

I feel your pain brother! In Utah we have the same bullcrap. This is
what I have going for me: I decide my own income (I am an
entrepreneur) I'm a college dropout(I think in the long run this is
about the only time dropping out of college will make me money.) I
recently lost about $3200 net a month due to losing some of my
contracts.I called the collection agency that is involved w/my case. I
mentioned to them my situation and the lady on the other end of the
phone said to me: "Why don't you start looking for more work. If you
want to file for a reduction in child support payments it will take
about a year just to review your case." I hung up on the bitch. I
guess I lost this one. I have about 12 more yrs of this bullcrap. It's
time to change the playing field.

After reading this Ghandi quote, I started thinking this way.."It's
our moral duty to disobey unjust laws." Good luck and take care.- Hide
quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

It is all crazy...Actually, my mother who has always been the "poor
woman,
men are scum and should have to pay" has harassed me quite a bit about
the whole CS mess and me complaining. Her view was that you paid a
percentage
of your income, but that it was a reasonable percentage...that if you
changed jobs,
like in our case, due to move, etc...that they automatically reduced
the CS...that
the only thing counted in CS was normal wages, and you could deduct
your 401K
money, your retirement savings, the costs for YOUR stuff, house, blah,
blah...

----------------------------
The stuff that gets me is the large number of people who have no experience
with the CS system who believe CS payments are tax deductible and NCP
fathers can claim their children as dependents on their tax returns. And
when you talk about CS being set using imputed incomes they claim no judge
would allow that to happen. Or if you mention child custody outcomes are
something other than 50/50 they don't believe you since both parents in
their minds have an equal chance to get custody. And the kicker is the
belief CS must be spent on the children.