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Ugly Sounds of an Actual Spanking



 
 
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  #71  
Old December 16th 04, 11:55 PM
Greegor
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Charles:
Naw, they won't come up with another recording.
That's like asking the Moonies to change their religion.

The CONTEXT of the spanking on the recording
is fragmented as well.

If the parent gave the kid lots of freedom to manage
their own time, but demanded scholastic performance,
and the kid WASTED lots of time goofing off, watching
TV, etc... and the clear message was that bad
performance was not acceptable, this might be
the FOLLOW THROUGH. It's possible this is
just the child come uppance for their bad choices.

Alternatively, Kane and others would call somebody
a CONTROL FREAK if they would up front prevent
the wasted time and MICRO MANAGE the situation.

They set up a situation where no matter which way
a parent goes, they can FIND FAULT either way!

I view micro management as comparable to
training wheels, taken off as the kid learns to
manage things appropriately THEMSELVES.

When a person is micro managed, they generally
long VERY MUCH for the day they can manage
the situation themselves.

Is it possible the kid in this recording played
a CON by asserting they had grades under
control, and this spanking is because they were
being DISHONEST?

Aren't LIES and DISHONESTY really the biggest
reasons for spanking? Perhaps Kane and
his sock puppets should be spanked?

Deviousness, deceipt, lies...

  #72  
Old December 17th 04, 04:08 PM
Darryl
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Chris wrote:
http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/ReportCard.htm

Those who have traumatic issues about corporal punishment in

childhood
should use discretion. This sound file can be extremely upsetting.

Chris


I'm curious when people feel that if something upsets us physically, it
must be evil.

You see this often when pro-life protesters hold up pictures of
abortions.

They could hold up pictures of knee surgeries & I'd get just as
nauseated. But I don't go around marching to ban knee surgeries,
because I don't like how they look....or sound.

I'm not claiming this is the only reason people use to prove something
is wrong, only that it isn't a very relevant one. Something may be
shocking, unpleasant, nauseating.....and still be totally desirable &
necessary.

  #73  
Old December 17th 04, 11:10 PM
Kane
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Darryl wrote:
Chris wrote:
http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/ReportCard.htm

Those who have traumatic issues about corporal punishment in

childhood
should use discretion. This sound file can be extremely upsetting.

Chris


I'm curious when people feel that if something upsets us physically,

it
must be evil.


I guess you don't real?ly want to address his caution then. What made
you think he meant physically?

You see this often when pro-life protesters hold up pictures of
abortions.


Yes. That's true. It does tend to produce a viseral response in one.

They could hold up pictures of knee surgeries & I'd get just as
nauseated.


I see, you weren't thinking about other's responses, only your own, and
those tend to manifest physically. Okay.

But I don't go around marching to ban knee surgeries,
because I don't like how they look....or sound.


You have found someone "marching" over the sound file of the spanking?
Odd, it's far more likely you will see spankers, that have gone over
the limit, marching in protest against those that caught them.....child
protection agencies.

I'm not claiming this is the only reason people use to prove

something
is wrong, only that it isn't a very relevant one. Something may be
shocking, unpleasant, nauseating.....and still be totally desirable &
necessary.


Ah, now we get to the area that is debatable. Would you mind pursuing
this further by presenting your arguments for the desirability and
necessity for spanking, or other ways of applying corporal punishment?

I hope there will be something new and creative. In the life of this ng
so many bogus arguments for it have been shot down that I believed
there were no new arguments in favor...so I keep trying to come up with
some variations on old ones.

In fact my latest, only a few months old, might interest you.
Enthusiactic Child Spanking advocates and supporters have been known to
claim they, and parents, know their child best, so can best judge, not
the state through law or other means, the limits of pain, impact,
humiliation, etc. that goes with spanking so that they will not go over
the line into abusive injury of the child.

It's entirely possible they may be right. It's beyond ME of course, but
then I never had any practice at it, being a non-spanker by choice, who
had children of my own to raise.

So, can you answer The Question? (google on it in this Usenet newsgroup
before you start so you won't waste your time with redefining the
question itself, and redoing all the failed attempts of others in the
past).

Where is that line?

For it to be of practical use to parents considering continuing
spanking or taking it up with their newborns, it has to be at least as
explicit as a traffic speed control sign. Easy to read, understand, and
apply to human children. Just as 55 MPH is to the driver who drives
the car down the road under varying conditions

This should be perfectly easy, considering in this country probably the
parents of 90% of believe they know, and chose therefor to spank.

I look forward to a lively fun-filled debate.

Or you can run. It's no shame to refuse to volunteer. Your choice.
Kane

  #74  
Old December 19th 04, 07:17 AM
Chris
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http://www.geocities.com/cddugan/ReportCard.htm

Those who have traumatic issues about corporal punishment in childhood
should use discretion. This sound file can be extremely upsetting.

Chris
  #75  
Old December 20th 04, 06:59 PM
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Micro-managed, l never thought of this context. Perhaps you are on to
something here.....In short, it is a real job to do good parenting
now....There are so many distractions for our children. From tv, movies,
school, home, work, friends, ect.....for some children, its hard to
balance. They just have to keep focused on the fact that now adays they
must do well in school to suceed well in the out side world. Lifes
rewards are given for performance, and attitude,and honesty. But, they
should not lose sight of the small items that bond family together.
(Things that money and gifts cannot buy).

  #76  
Old December 21st 04, 04:38 AM
Kane
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Greegor wrote:
Charles:
Naw, they won't come up with another recording.
That's like asking the Moonies to change their religion.


You are probably correct. It would be exceedingly rare someone would
gather and release the very evidence themselves that show what
miserably failed human beings they ar.......oh, sorry. S'cuse me. I
forgot.

The CONTEXT of the spanking on the recording
is fragmented as well.


No, it's simply not totally clear. If one thinks their way through it,
objectively, and let's go of their own self protective neuritic
filtering of the content it comes through pretty clearly. The child got
in trouble at school. She is terrified of what's coming...the rest all
there, quite clearly. You just can't deal with brutal reality and seek
some escape route.

If the parent gave the kid lots of freedom to manage
their own time, but demanded scholastic performance,
and the kid WASTED lots of time goofing off, watching
TV, etc... and the clear message was that bad
performance was not acceptable, this might be
the FOLLOW THROUGH.


If wishes were horses beggers would ride. But they aren't.

And your premise isn't very reasonable or likely in a family that does
not use terrorist parenting tactics on their children. I've found
children from the kinds of families mine was have children that are
exceedingly, to the point of worry sometimes, self managing and
voracious learners. One has to remind them that play is a task for
their minds and bodies, and a learning in and of itself.

It's possible this is
just the child come uppance for their bad choices.


"Come uppance" [sic]. Now there's a venerable old rationale for doing
harm to others. I wonder at its etiology.

Hmm..interesting that it means getting one's just rewards, bad...OR
GOOD.

Isnt' that nice.

Alternatively, Kane and others would call somebody
a CONTROL FREAK if they would up front prevent
the wasted time and MICRO MANAGE the situation.


No, just stupid if they were not supporting the child's natural desire
to learn and forcing learning on them. One of humanities more ugly
follies.
The rage, and stupidity, it creates is phenomenal. A good teacher
inspires, a lousy one perspires.

They set up a situation where no matter which way
a parent goes, they can FIND FAULT either way!


CPS? You are getting to slide on over into CPS chat now? R R R ...

You ever make an argument about CPS didn't wreak of just that ploy?

No, I don't find fault with parents for children that don't seem to be
performing. I blame society and a few dozen generations that
forgot..well let it be stolen from them...that humans are avid lifelong
learners.

The burghers, merchants of the age of enlightment, used their wealth to
hire teachers for them...themselves, so they might become more aware of
the world and other ways of seeing, and being shown new things.

I hear they named their little private schools, "University" because
that is what they wanted to know more of..the universe. And they had
never gone to public school. Most were unlettered to start with, so
monks were among the first hired to teach them to read and write.

I view micro management as comparable to
training wheels, taken off as the kid learns to
manage things appropriately THEMSELVES.


Of course you do because you are a classic Pavlovian Behaviorist. You
throttle the natural and powerful desire to learn...about everything,
even about how to overcome a weak bladder sphincter. Instead of support
you impose YOUR beliefs about the right way.

Eistein would have been a shoe clerk, a lousy one no doubt, had his
parents been like you. As it was, they let this shy, dedicated jewish
orthodox child, a terribly slow learner, go at his own pace. He
couldn't even pass gymnasium (HS) math class testing. A dunce, but much
beloved by his parents who had complete trust that God knew what he or
she was doing with the boy.

In his adulthood he blossomed and look what happened. We would likely
not be communicating in this way with his ground breaking discoverys
about the nature (thus the operational reality) of the universe.

Tom Edison, deafenned by the boxing of his ears in school by the
teacher, because he day dreamed wonderfully imaginative dreams of doing
things in the real world...not the dusty dull classroom, or the study
table at home, was taken from school by his doting and concerned
mother, and the boy set up, with mother's support, an experiment lab in
the basement.

Again, we'd be waving flags at each other from hilltops to talk had he
not done the seminal work he did. I've heard similar strange parenting,
very permissive parenting of this type, producing other geniuses.

I've see what public school rated as slow learners, or learning
disabled. children could do when their parents in desparation took them
to school...and pretty much just let them play until the poison of
their forced learning had worn off....and then, jump back greegor. You
couldn't hold them back. But they did NOT progress according to any
schedule but their own.

Amazing kids. Well, now amazing adults.

When a person is micro managed, they generally
long VERY MUCH for the day they can manage
the situation themselves.


No, they die inside, and settle for either passivity and becoming
drones to be exploited in the market and the armies. Or they become
whining little passive ****ants that blame anyone but who they should
for their miserable petty crime filled lives.

Know any? I sure do. Not a one from the homeschooling and other
families that would not use pain, fear, coercion, on their children.

Is it possible the kid in this recording played
a CON by asserting they had grades under
control, and this spanking is because they were
being DISHONEST?


If pigs had wings they could fly, but don't look up.

Aren't LIES and DISHONESTY really the biggest
reasons for spanking?


No. Lies and dishonesty show either a very young child that is simply
modeling their parents interactions with them....every tell a kid a
fairytale, greegor? Why shouldn't they think, in their literalist way
(and they are that) that that is what talking with each other is
supposed to contain....lots of stories and fooling each other.

Or that the adult is so ****in' dangerous, like you, that the he or she
better get damn good damn quick at a whole set of similar survival
tactics. Lying is a pretty good one. We adults, under threat, tend to
use it a lot. You do. And I've made it a project to track your lies.

Perhaps Kane and
his sock puppets should be spanked?


I have no sock puppets, nor anyone shilling for me. I am quite alone.
Does that embolden you to try and spank me? Either figuratively here,
or literally in person?

Hmmmm....Well, I've been so busy getting all my down trees bucked and
split for winter I haven't been on the mat in about two months. I might
be rusty enough for you to "spank" me, but I wouldn't put any money on
a lazy jobless child torturing coward. One little slap and I have a
hunch you'll sobbing and blaming CPS, the little girl, and the nasty
ol' mean state of Iowa and it's missing FCRB offices.

Deviousness, deceipt, lies...


I'll let you on a secret. You, Doug, and others here that are long gone
have left tracks all over the place at how devious, deceptive, and
lying you really are. I let you slide along pretending to take you
seriously when I know what you've been up to...literally.

You are all a joke. Just as much as Neal was, and eventually you all
will be shown to be. And I won't have to do it...you will, either by
slips, or by requiring people to know about you and simply looking you
up.

You call someone a liar, and that tends to happen. They get very
interesting in YOUR veracity. You start pretending you have some great
revelation about their background, and you give license for them to
take a peek at yours. That's a foolishness a couple of you will pay
for, eventually, right here.

You are nothing more than a mentally limited and likely disturbed
cowardly liar. You're still out on the street by luck, nothing more.

And I'll decide when and how to expose you. In the meantime, enjoy
yourself. I'm enjoying this. And you are so easy to bait I'm almost
embarrassed. If it weren't for the child you ****ed over, I'd just
ignore you.

Kane

  #77  
Old December 21st 04, 04:55 AM
Kane
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Greegor wrote:
Chris, your obsessive reposting of this makes me
wonder if you aren't deriving some perverse
sexual jollies from it.


Do you really think he listens everytime?

My take on it is that Chris would like those spanking compulsives that
come here listen to an episode of spanking from outside the event,
instead from inside where they might be biased to hear it differently,
since they are the perpetrators in the latter instance.

But then, I don't know what Chris thinks precisely, but I can't find
anything in his posting, even when I disagree with him adamently, that
would suggest he's anykind of pervert whatsoever.

Unless NOT wanting to cause children pain is some exotic new way to get
off? 0:-

If it turns out he is a pervert do you think he'd be interested in
learning how to work out ways to manipulate a little girl or two into
shower situations with him in attendence?

I have a funny feeling you couldn't sell him that if he was an ax
murderer, let alone the obiously kind and gentle, caring individual
that he is.

I love how the spanking compulsives, given to violence to man or women,
wants to portray someone that can bebate them into frustrated teeth
knashing decide he must secretly be a monster.

It just goes to their projections. Deep down they know who the monsters
are here. That they are unwilling to face. We've even had one, that
laid out his experience, going from being a spanking parent,
recognizing the futility of the practice, and most deliberatly and
courageously going about learning how to parent with pain, fear,
humiliation for the children he loves.

Nothing you will ever come anywhere near, will yah, greegor? Got to be
in control no matter what.

Happy December to yah.

My the snow fly up yer nose,
The raindeer stomp yer toes,
and a christmas ball portray your fall,
when the SO cuts your hose.

R R R R R R R R .....HO HO HO HO...Merry Big Bang.
And thank goodness there was a sweatheart like Jesus to tell you twits
to stop your cruelty to children. Too bad you don't listen. Yet.

Kane

  #78  
Old December 21st 04, 08:35 AM
Hamilton1794
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Those who have traumatic issues about corporal punishment in childhood
should use discretion. This sound file can be extremely upsetting.


So why would a person with "traumatic issues about corporal punishment in
childhood" possibly be on a newsgroup with this name?
Why intentionally read about something if it traumatizes you?
{Hamilton}
  #79  
Old December 22nd 04, 12:48 AM
Kane
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Hamilton1794 wrote:
For it to be of practical use to parents considering continuing
spanking or taking it up with their newborns, it has to be at least

as
explicit as a traffic speed control sign. Easy to read, understand,

and
apply to human children. Just as 55 MPH is to the driver who drives
the car down the road under varying conditions


If you want the process of bringing up children to have simple,
easy-to-understand rules that are like road speed limits, you're

going to be
forever frustrated as a parent.


I didn't say that I wanted that or expected it for "bringing up
children," simply for engaging in parenting methods that have well
known risks attached. It's very hard, for instance, to leave a bruise
or break a bone by redirecting a child's behaviors verbally. Not so
hard to do with swats, smacks, paddlin's, and pops.

Child-rearing isn't an exact science,


One of the most clever ways to avoid discussing what someone has
postulated is to move the discussion of in another
direction....especially if you are good at using something that seems
closely related.

You'll notice I wasn't deviating from the issue of using corporal
punishment. I addressed no other issues, of which there are many, on
child rearing. In many of those others I do not ask for roads signs
that show absolute boundaries. I do in spanking for a very sensible
reason: the injuries to children that have occurred as a result of CP,
especially when it has gotten out of hand and the children have been
taken by state and the parent in in jail for criminal assault.

I'd rather avoid that. It's bad for kids and parents.

it demands the ability to adjust
methods of behavior modification to different children under

different
situations.


Sure and the range is nearly infinite. I can sit around all day with
just about any issue in parenting and dream up tactic after tactic. I
tend though to go to what I have proven over the years to be not only
the easiest AND most fun, but the most effective in my child learn SELF
control, over seeking out OTHER control.

Spanking may work for certain children in certain families under

particular
conditions, but that doesn't mean it should be applied to ALL

children under
ALL circumstances.


"work" is the word to watch out for. It's an ill defined term. What you
may think of as it "works" I might think of as having set the child on
a path of control battles with you appearing to win but they just going
to grow into a teen...and you know what happens then. 0:-

Those are decisions for individual parents to make for their own

children,
just as they make other types of child-rearing decisions, hopefully

with
success and to the best of their ability.


Yes, they are. Wrapped up in, possibly without your conscious
awareness, is the insinuation that someone else is going to tell them
how to parent. I'm all for people making their own choices, and taking
the consequences of finding opposing ideas offered in places such as
this. No one was forced to by Benjamen Spock's baby book. Nor to follow
it.

You are not forced to follow any non-punishment parenting tips I might
offer. But you might consider giving them and the supporting arguments
I make without assume I'm trying to force you. Or did you inheret a
tendency to enter into control battles and power struggles somewhere,
sometime, from someone?

Even posted speed limits don't always apply, if road conditions

(ice, snow,
fog, etc.) make driving at the posted speed hazardous.


Well, I would presume, as a motorist would, that should a speed limit,
or spanking limit would be modified by conditions neither would
accelerate and to hard turns.

The problem is I can find a posted limit for one, and I'm asking for a
posted limit for the other, from those that perport to be the experts
in what's right for their child. I want to be such an expert. Who
knows, I might want to spank my kids one day. 'Course now in their
forties they might think me a bit weird, but hey, if it's so good why
wouldn't it still work to teach them things.

If my daughter shows up again asking me about an ethical business
decision she made that she now is questioning her actions about, first
I'll turn her over my knee for her "mistake" then I'll sit her by me,
dry her tears and tell her "never do that again young lady if you know
what's good for you."

I'm sure she'll learn a lot, and start shopping for the better prices
care homes.

To think that applying child-rearing strategies, including

discipline, is
going to be like following a few simple, easy-to-understand rules,

that strikes
me as a naive and highly facile approach.


It strikes me that you are thinking yourself too too clever to have
expanded the argument to all parenting issues, and child-rearing
strategies, when I spoke to one, and one only.

I'll give you an example of another though, that I want clear
guidelines about. Diet. I do not want to by guess and by god on my
child's diet. And by golly there are some very clear guidelines. Do not
feed a small baby chunks of apple with the skin on. Do you know why?

I also know in health matters that certain things I might Rx a child
with certain other thinks I cannot or risk terrible harm .

I also don't put my 5 year old in 8th grade. In fact not even in
second, unless I have an outright proven genius, and even then I'd be
thinking boundaries...very carefully.

We use clear boundaries, and we consult with others to establish them,
teachers, doctors, child psychologists, but for some reason this area
of whalin' on a kids body and calling it a semi polite trick name,
"spanking," doesn't want to lend itself to the same kind of considered
reasoning and care in choice making.

Now why IS that I wonder. What is so sacred about spanking that the
parent would go into all these other areas seeking clearer guidelines
but scream their heads off like spastic leaping arm waving monkeys when
it comes to spanking? Or they sulk and run. Hmmmm? Hmmmm? This
inquiring mind wants to know.

When you wish to talk about this one issue, and admit there are plenty
of clear boundaries in other areas of child rearing that are more than
overdue in spanking, maybe the debate will take on a more wholesome
feeling. As it is I always feel icky not pasting a spanker in the head,
hard, for what they are doing to children. But then I'm a peaceable
sort.

Thanks for working on this problem with me.

{Hamilton}

(Casio)

Kane

  #80  
Old December 22nd 04, 02:37 AM
Greegor
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Darryl:
The emotional appeal as propaganda?
Manipulative game.
It could also be said to be a form of Demagoguery.

Chris and Kane are of the mind to impose
their beliefs against all forms of spanking
onto everybody. Their position is particularly
weak and so they use desperate tactics.
Spanking is legal in all 50 states and a large
Federal court district is now under a ruling
which says that spanking is NOT the business
of Child Protection agencies. Spanking is
NOT legally Child Abuse.

Hamilton:
Part of the agenda for the anti spanking zealots
is to remove all options for a parent to spank.
There are even a growing number of people
who do not believe in spanking themselves,
yet object to the anti-spanking zealotry being
IMPOSED.

Kane is a stooge for Child Protection agencies,
a loyalist so staunch that he jerks his knee
to justify every abuse done by government,
no matter how big the stench.

He actually idolizes Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy,
the a-hole famous for the 50's communist
witch hunts. He's a sicko indeed.

It seems like Don worked in or with
Child Protection agencies, found out how
truly corrupt they really are, but because
he wrapped his EGO around his identity
and connection he FEVERISHLY works
as a sort of free lance PR man, thinking
that his gratuitous SWEARING in newsgroups
wins over hearts and minds.

Like many CPS caseworkers, Don is
against ALL forms of spanking and would
like to IMPOSE belief onto parents even
though spanking is legal in all 50 states.

His eagerness to impose his beliefs onto
others makes me think he might have
actually been a caseworker, with their
raw, unchecked POWER, and now he
has none and so he pathetically tries
to bully people.

He also claims to have education in
psychology. Can't you tell, with his smooth
style and winning ways?? (sic)

 




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