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#321
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Is there an equation ?
"P. Tierney" wrote in message news:jt4Sb.178275$xy6.845568@attbi_s02... "Ian" wrote: I am glad to have him truly. But what is wrong with wanting your independence back? Don't you guys dream of Sunday morning lie ins?? Like I said before, when he was 3 I considered a vasectomy. I found it so trying having a 1 - 3 yr old. Now at 8, things are easier, and he is a fun guy to be around, but it is the thought of those awful baby and toddler years that put me off having another. If you were *not* simply a lying troll, you would have addressed, at some point, the notion that some (many?) do not find these years awful, but quote a joy. A troll avoids such points, but one who is interested in engaging in discussion would respond to it. In this particular message he said the baby and toddler years were awful for him. (Note, he had a small baby while he and his not quite yet wife were trying to transition from teen to responsible adult.) I think it is uncharacteristly mean for you to assume he's a troll just because he felt his life was tough when he had a baby. I don't believe that all folks interested in engaging in discussion need to put disclaimers in every message that "The above was my take on my situation only, and your milage may vary." Maybe its because you all have little kids. Its only when you are out of it that your truly realise how taxing it was. Yeah, that makes loads of sense. It make sense to me. I look back on my kids baby years and wonder how I did it. I see other folks with little kids and love to baby sit for a little while, but have no desire to live it again. Ian's not alone. I also found the baby years tough. Worth it, but tough none the less. P. Tierney |
#322
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Is there an equation ?
Ian wrote:
I am glad to have him truly. But what is wrong with wanting your independence back? IMO, it is wrong because it keeps you from enjoying life in the here and now. When you spend a significant amount of mental energy thinking "life will be good when/if", you lose the ability to see that life is good (or can be good) *now*. I have three quite young kids and I will be 40 in June. My husband will be 46 next month. We are tossing around the idea of having one more. I do not spend any time at all longing for the days when my kids are grown and gone, although I certainly don't *fear* those days either. Instead, I am enjoying the life I have now and loving it. If you are really glad to have your son in your life, for heaven's sake, ENJOY him! He is not going to be a child forever--as you well know--and when he is grown and gone and you suddenly have your independence back, you may realize that a) the independence isn't everything it's cracked up to be and b) you really missed out on the joys of childrearing because you were so busy looking forward to NOT doing it any more. Don't cheat yourself of the good parts of childrearing by focusing so much on the difficult parts. Don't you guys dream of Sunday morning lie ins?? Honestly, not really. I *occasionally* sleep in until 8:30 or so, but I've found as I get older, my capacity for "sleeping in" is decreasing. That may be a simple fact of biology--they say as you get older, you tend to get sleepy earlier and wake up earlier. (The opposite of teens, who don't get sleepy until the wee hours of the morning and then want to sleep until noon.) In any event, I really *want* to be in bed by 10:00 at the latest, but it's a rare day I don't feel like being up and around by 7:00 or so. In any event, as Banty and others pointed out, you *do* have the option of sleeping in on Sundays if you want to. Your inability to do it is purely self-imposed. Like I said before, when he was 3 I considered a vasectomy. I found it so trying having a 1 - 3 yr old. Now at 8, things are easier, and he is a fun guy to be around, but it is the thought of those awful baby and toddler years that put me off having another. Believe it or not, some people actually *like* the baby and toddler years. I happen to be one. I really enjoy the 0-2yo stage, with a special soft spot in my heart for the 6mo. I suppose one of the reasons I want another child is to get that 0-2yo stage one more time. OTOH, I also always say that making your own babies is a very inefficient way to get your baby fix, since you get so little baby and so much of everything else! That doesn't mean that I don't find the baby/toddler stage tiring and demanding; it's just that I find the joys of it well worth being tired and (for lack of a better word) put-upon. Maybe its because you all have little kids. Its only when you are out of it that your truly realise how taxing it was. Well, actually, not *everyone* responding to you has only little kids. Dorothy's kids are, as she has pointed out, grown up, as are Rosalie's. Nan has a 20yo and dragonlady's kids are in their late teens (her oldest may be 20, now). Banty's son is, IIRC, a little older than yours. Sue's youngest is in first grade. But what I find really amusing is that you're not complaining just about how taxing baby/toddlerhood is. You claim that even now, with one 8yo, you and your wife are completely exhausted at the end of each day. And when those of us with multiple children younger than yours say we're not that tired and don't find child-rearing nearly so taxing as you do, your response is that it must be because we only have young children and don't know how taxed we are. Doesn't that seem like an internally inconsistent position, even to you? -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom) This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you. Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby. All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#323
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Is there an equation ?
Ian wrote:
Why do you find it so hard to believe that we are both tired? I work all week, it is not like I am sat at home all day. And my wife may be a SAHM but she certainly doesn't sit home all day either. She has all the chores and home maintenance too, like the painting. No one ever suggested that being a SAHP is easy. I actually choose to work (albeit from home) primarily because I need to do something *other* than being a parent all the time to stay sane. That's not to diss people who do it; if anything, I have even more respect for the capabilities and competencies of those who can do it full time because I know I *can't*. But it *is*, I think, quite difficult to understand how two people with one 8yo and one job between them can be so wiped out. I mean, everyone posting to this thread has at least *one* spouse who works full-time (if not two) and *none* of the parents posting here are "sitting at home all day", either. Most of the posters have more than one child and some have more than one child who is in the baby/toddler stage you found particularly taxing. Instead of trying to *justify* why you're both so tired, you might consider asking yourself what makes your life so much more difficult than the lives of others who have similar demands on their time. It's not like the rest of us are independently wealthy layabouts with full-time nannies and housemaids to prevent us from ever lifting a finger. To the contrary, most of us have lives at least as full or busy as yours. Which raises the question: what are we doing that's different from what you're doing? And I think the answers to that are pretty obvious. You and your wife are doing too much *for* your child and not enough *with* your child. And you're not giving him the freedom and independence he needs now to learn to do for himself what needs to be done so that you *can* have the freedom and independence you claim to long for when he reaches the supposedly magical age of 18. -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom) This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you. Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby. All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#324
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Is there an equation ?
I do agree with both you and Nan. I was just thinking perhaps that was the
reason Ian is kind of bitter with parenting. Who knows though. -- Sue (mom to three girls) I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World... Circe wrote in message news:NR9Sb.5813$fD.2539@fed1read02... Sue wrote: And I suspect that Ian doesn't enjoy parenting because it was thrusted upon him without a choice. Most people plan a child and are ready mentally for it. Given that roughly half of pregnancies are unplanned, I"m not sure this is true. I think a LOT of people have parenthood thrust upon them before they are mentally ready for it. That doesn't mean that such people don't enjoy parenting, but I suspect a significant proportion of parents are in Ian's shoes in one way or another. .I know I wasn't ready to even think about being a parent until I was his age that he is now. Ditto. Funny that I thought early on in the thread that the reason he and his wife are so tired is that they're young. Man, when I was in my 20s, there was no way I could have managed the demands of a child. Waiting until I was in my 30s to have children made a world of difference! -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom) This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you. Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby. All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#325
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Is there an equation ?
"enigma" wrote in message .. . ` i've seen tracks in the sugarbush, but the llamas would stomp any that tried crossing the pasture. what scares me is rabid fox. well, ok, a rabid coyote would scare me more. but coyotes aren't really pack animals so they're less dangerous than wild dogs. Don't know if they are or not, but when I see coyotes around here, they are in small groups of two or three. We don't get them so much anymore since the city gave us all trash bins. The neighbors have stopped putting out trash in plain garbage bags and have been using the bins. It's cut down on the coyotes drastically. |
#326
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Is there an equation ?
"Nan" wrote in message ... On Thu, 29 Jan 2004 07:39:37 GMT, "toypup" wrote: "Nan" wrote in message .. . I would believe that more of people with much younger children, though. I've simply never met anyone that wasn't aware *at all* the things an 8 year old is capable of! Most children are very independent by that age, and have no trouble letting their parents know what they can do, or want to do. You haven't met my mom. My brother never told her what he could do, because he knew her. She needed to be needed and to know she wasn't needed would have devastated her. That's just how she is. Well, then she was meeting her own needs. Did she complain about it, though?? Yeah. She likes to play the martyr, how much she sacrifices for her kids, blah, blah, blah. How hard life is after having kids, blah, blah. How unappreciated she is, blah. |
#327
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Is there an equation ?
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message . com... "P. Tierney" wrote in message news:jt4Sb.178275$xy6.845568@attbi_s02... "Ian" wrote: I am glad to have him truly. But what is wrong with wanting your independence back? Don't you guys dream of Sunday morning lie ins?? Like I said before, when he was 3 I considered a vasectomy. I found it so trying having a 1 - 3 yr old. Now at 8, things are easier, and he is a fun guy to be around, but it is the thought of those awful baby and toddler years that put me off having another. If you were *not* simply a lying troll, you would have addressed, at some point, the notion that some (many?) do not find these years awful, but quote a joy. A troll avoids such points, but one who is interested in engaging in discussion would respond to it. In this particular message he said the baby and toddler years were awful for him. (Note, he had a small baby while he and his not quite yet wife were trying to transition from teen to responsible adult.) I think it is uncharacteristly mean for you to assume he's a troll just because he felt his life was tough when he had a baby. First, I think it's all fiction. Second, if I'm wrong and it isn't fiction, it's odd to me that he would complain about how hard life *was* when he's doing as much complaining about it life now. At first he said that he wasn't understood because posters may have had young kids, not the hard and "bad" task of raising an eight year old. Now, he's taking things in another direction. I don't believe that all folks interested in engaging in discussion need to put disclaimers in every message that "The above was my take on my situation only, and your milage may vary." But the poster has said *repeatedly*, in his own words, that YMMV is not a philosophy of his. That it's extremely hard for everyone because it's extremely hard for him. He has given every indication, often by saying so directly, that he considers his situation to be the norm, and has gone as far as to say that those who do not express his troubles must be lying. Maybe its because you all have little kids. Its only when you are out of it that your truly realise how taxing it was. Yeah, that makes loads of sense. It make sense to me. I look back on my kids baby years and wonder how I did it. I see other folks with little kids and love to baby sit for a little while, but have no desire to live it again. Ian's not alone. I also found the baby years tough. Worth it, but tough none the less. Again, he's complaining just as much about life now, with an eight year old. That's part of what, it seems, has baffled some people -- that he's complaining about how difficult things are when, at the very least, the child is at school 40 hours a week. Along with the various other brought-upon difficulties. In that sense, I think he is alone. P. Tierney |
#328
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Is there an equation ?
"Sophie" wrote in message ...
Oddly, we have never had a problem with bookcases--and we have a *LOT* of bookcases (hmmm...something like a dozen tall ones, four or five medium height ones, and four or five smaller ones). Obviously, doing anything with them would be a royal PITA, so we just never did. We haven't had a problem with it. Well, so far anyway ;-) I've probably just jinxed myself and Genevieve will be hell on wheels when it comes to bookcases ;-) Best wishes, Ericka Patrick used to climb ours then jump off of it onto the couch. Lewis just likes to empty the shelves. I prefer the climbing and jumping honestly. Lol. My oldest - who is 8, coincidently ;-) - recently discovered our built-in bookcases on either side of the fireplace. He uses them to climb up and put things out of reach of the 3 year old, who I suppose hasn't figured them out yet. The 3 year old *has* figured out that a series of drawers pulled out just *so* makes a nice staircase up to the kitchen counter. Where he likes to *stand*!! My 5 year old is more of a traditionalist and prefers chairs and step ladders for her climbing purposes. For some reason, she's also the only one who has had stiches from a fall! Maybe there's something to be said for bookcase and drawer climbing... And as for the videos strewn about. I've given up. Fortunately, everyone's old enough that the videos get taken out only for viewing, but I'll be doggone if they get put back! So I just let it go and we clean them all up at once...*sigh* - Bev |
#329
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Is there an equation ?
P. Tierney wrote:
That's part of what, it seems, has baffled some people -- that he's complaining about how difficult things are when, at the very least, the child is at school 40 hours a week. Okay, now *I'm* baffled. Where, exactly, do 8yo's attend school for 40 hours per week (and when can I move there)? I think it's more like 30-32.5 hours per week (an average of 6-6.5 school hours per day). -- Be well, Barbara (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom) This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop: Financing for "5" years -- car dealership sign Mommy: I call you "baby" because I love you. Julian (age 4): Oh! All right, Mommy baby. All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful. Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman |
#330
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Is there an equation ?
"toypup" wrote in
news:XnbSb.182208$na.298550@attbi_s04: "enigma" wrote in message .. . ` i've seen tracks in the sugarbush, but the llamas would stomp any that tried crossing the pasture. what scares me is rabid fox. well, ok, a rabid coyote would scare me more. but coyotes aren't really pack animals so they're less dangerous than wild dogs. Don't know if they are or not, but when I see coyotes around here, they are in small groups of two or three. We don't get them so much anymore since the city gave us all trash bins. The neighbors have stopped putting out trash in plain garbage bags and have been using the bins. It's cut down on the coyotes drastically. probably a mom & her pups. those coyote kids hang around until the next litter comes along lee |
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