Is there an equation ?

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 21:49:39 GMT, "P. Tierney"
wrote:


"Banty" wrote:

To me, what USENET is so good for is to get other perspectives, which
is
what
Ian's been getting. But it hasn't been particularly kindly presented
to
him,
and I give him kudos for sticking it out anyway.

I don't. He wrote things, very early on, like regarding leaving his
kid along in a room at all, "It is not a centre of attention thing. It is
a
safety issue." And, "Why do onlies always have to be stereotyped?"

And he was very critical of a poster who said she allows her
pre-schooler to be outside unsupervised, by stating that safety must
not be a concern to her (or words to that effect).

Yup. And even more far out to me, he implied the same of
those who did a chore while their kids played *inside*, stating
that safety was more important than getting the dishes done.
He didn't follow up on a question to this.

Of course, creating a safe environment and *teaching* safe
behaviors is a wiser long-term approach to safety than
having each parent around the toddler (or even an eight year old_)
every minute of the day to supposedly keep him/her safe.
A discussion could have been pursued on that topic, anyway,
since he brought it up, but.....


P. Tierney

"Circe"
I agree with you that countrywide statistics do not translate to
individual
neighborhoods, but Ian has not claimed that his *neighborhood* is the
problem. He has claimed that the Scottish government *requires* parents to
maintain constant supervision of kids under the age of 10.

apparently(?), our state govt has a recommended age of 10 for being left
alone at home, etc. (pffft!!!) just because it's a law (or a recommendation)
doesn't mean it has to be followed in every case. it depends on the kid &
circumstances, obviously. it's certainly not something i'd consider
following unless i had a child who was not capable at 8 or 9 of being left
at home for a short period without creating a disaster.

i'd speculate that if the scottish govt has a similar rule, it's practically
_intended_ to be broken in some circumstances; it sounds like the sort of
thing put out for the lowest common denominator (who might otherwise leave
their 4 year olds alone or send their 6 year olds across busy streets alone.
or whatever.)
kylie
--
www.rdj.com.au

On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 19:07:09 -0500, Nan wrote:
but then again I might just have mucked up the snipping as usual!

Since I don't know anything about Scotland I can't say, but in the
States, it would typically be a case of a wider pattern of neglect.


My inclination is that its the same in Scotland, though I do not have
the experience of social care policy in Scotland that I do in England.
My husband is from Scotland and I know that its not the case at
schools local to where he is from (as we have friends whose children
attend those schools and indeed our nephews are that age).
Annecdotalling I have seem many children walking to school
unaccompanied in that town over the years and as I mentioned
elsewhere, there are significant campaigns, funded by the Scottish
Executive, to make junior school age children's walk to school safer,
which would seem to be contradictory to Ian's claim.

I can, if necessary consult with the Opposition spokesperson on
Justice in the Scottish assembly (who my husband knows), but I think
thats a bit excessive.

In England, I know enough about specific policy to say confidentally
that this would only be taken into account if it was part of a wider
pattern of neglect (as you say).

Megan
--
Seoras David Montgomery, 7 May 2003, 17 hours: sunrise to sunset (homebirth)

To e-mail use: megan at farr-montgomery dot com

toto wrote in message
...
On Fri, 30 Jan 2004 12:42:53 -0000, "Ian" wrote:

I remember a report in the local paper a few months back. A 9 year old
went
missing on the way to school. She was safe, just at a friends house, but
the
parents were hauled up in front of social services for letting a child
that
age walk to school alone.

I wonder why this is true in Scotland.. It doesn't seem that
Scotland is that dangerous in terms of children being abducted
by strangers. I suspect that your social services have gone
way overboard.
I would imagine there were other issues there too. Maybe if he could give us
the local paper name and approximate time we'd be able to find the article?
Debbie

dragonlady wrote:


When my kids attended a K-8 school, we WERE asked to not leave our kids
alone at school more than about 20 mintues before school started.
Apparently, they'd had some problems with large groups of unsupervised
kids (don't know what the problems were) who were getting to school as
much as an hour before school started, and did not have the staff to
supervise outside for that long. (I don't know why all the kids were
there that early, but at least some of them were being dropped off that
early so their parents could leave for work.)


Right--I think that policy has nothing to do with the
safety of kids walking to school or walking to their bus stop
without parents, though. It's because there's nothing for
the kids to do once they arrive (can't go to the rooms yet,
because it's still the teacher's prep time and the teacher
may or may not be there yet) and therefore the kids find all
sorts of harebrained ways to entertain themselves while
they're standing around in a little herd, not to mention
getting in the way of everyone else trying to get ready for
the start of school. We have the same policy at our school,
for precisely that reason. If your kid gets dropped off
early, he or she has to hang out in the main corridor, which
gets crowded and noisy and annoying for both kids and staff.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Bruce and Jeanne wrote:


Anyway, maybe he is overprotective in not letting his 8 year old walk to
school, but I don't think that's so unusual these days. Where I live in
Maryland (seems like a safe typical suburbs with sidewalks), a very
large chunk of the elementary school children are driven by their
parents or nanny to school, so much so that many buses arrive at the
school with only 3-6 children


A lot of that started with the sniper. Parents started driving
their kids to school (though I'm not sure what they thought
that would accomplish). Some have continued to do that
long past that time for various reasons (I think mostly that
some got in the habit and found that it worked better than
waiting at the bus stop if the parent was going to the bus
stop, or the kids wheedled the parents into continuing it
so that *they* didn't have to wait at the bus stop and could
sleep in later ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer wrote:

Bruce and Jeanne wrote:


Anyway, maybe he is overprotective in not letting his 8 year old walk to
school, but I don't think that's so unusual these days. Where I live in
Maryland (seems like a safe typical suburbs with sidewalks), a very
large chunk of the elementary school children are driven by their
parents or nanny to school, so much so that many buses arrive at the
school with only 3-6 children


A lot of that started with the sniper.

Except this was also the routine BEFORE the sniper incidents.

One mother in my neighborhood even told me she won't let her 7 year old
walk to the school bus stop (not even a block away) by herself because
she can't see it from her house. Meanwhile, I'm sending DD over to a
friend's house (probably rhe same distance) to see if that friend can
play. I do wonder if that mom is overprotective or I'm too lax.

Jeanne

H Schinske wrote:


Well, my fourth-grader would have to wait by herself on the corner of a busy
commercial street, so it's a bit different.


Sure--I'd feel the same. Our bus stop is in a residential
area with little traffic. The biggest danger comes from certain
less-than-well-behaved kids, which is alleviated by having a few
parents at the bus stop (parents of kindergarteners who are
required to have a parent present, and a few volunteers).
There certainly *are* situations in which one wouldn't leave
a 3rd grader to walk to the bus stop alone, but even today,
I would think that those don't include your basic suburban
residential area where there are multiple kids at the bus
stop, the bus stop is close to home, and there's little
traffic. Of course, back when *I* was in 3rd grade, I
walked a little over a mile to school (alone, except for
the fact that there were other kids walking to their own
homes), *including* crossing streets in an area that
was pretty much "downtown" in a small town. In the
other half of third grade, I still walked to school,
though it was probably a little less than a mile, with
my sister. Mom went with us when it was really snowy
(that would be often in Sault Ste. Marie, MI ;-) and
she was worried about cars being out of control. But
the two of us (me in 3rd/4th/5th grade, my sister in
K/1st/2nd grade) would go all over town (though this
was again a smaller town). Certainly times have
changed somewhat since then. Even I wouldn't allow
my 3rd grader to walk to school now, even though it's
less than a mile, primarily because there *aren't*
many other kids walking. But I do let him (and his
younger brother) play around the neighborhood without
being with him, and they do walk from the bus stop
on their own (and occasionally to the bus stop, if
things are crazy at home). This is generally what is
done around here, and I think the parents around here
are *very* conservative safety-wise.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Bruce and Jeanne wrote:


A lot of that started with the sniper.

Except this was also the routine BEFORE the sniper incidents.


Hmmm...around here, it was very much not the routine
before, but became more the routine (though still the
minority, I'd say--busses are reasonably full) after the
sniper.


One mother in my neighborhood even told me she won't let her 7 year old
walk to the school bus stop (not even a block away) by herself because
she can't see it from her house. Meanwhile, I'm sending DD over to a
friend's house (probably rhe same distance) to see if that friend can
play. I do wonder if that mom is overprotective or I'm too lax.


One always wonders. Around here, I'm considered on
the protective side, but I do let my kids walk to friends'
homes to see if they can play as long as it's in our neighborhood
and doesn't involve crossing one of the busier streets.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Nan ) wrote:

I know in the US, social services sometimes has min. ages they
consider acceptable to be left unsupervised.

How would one look this kind of thing up? I have absolutely no idea what the
law might be in my state.

--Helen