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Confused About County DCSS Collection
The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I asked the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed to be, because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year, which they cash each month. Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to collect on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to them comes back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears). That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18. What is the deal with this? I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the child's 18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the child's mother? Because that's what I am planning on doing. The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be summoning me before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few months short of the time of the child reaching majority. A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And the CA Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor" child. Anyone want to be a lawyer here? Thanks. |
#2
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
"SMH" wrote in message ... The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I asked the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed to be, because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year, which they cash each month. Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to collect on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to them comes back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears). That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18. What is the deal with this? I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the child's 18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the child's mother? Because that's what I am planning on doing. The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be summoning me before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few months short of the time of the child reaching majority. A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And the CA Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor" child. Anyone want to be a lawyer here? Thanks. Why not sent the appropriate number of checks to cover until the month in which the child turns 18? You should have a copy of the order for child suport that the county has - what does it say? |
#3
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
Personally I would continue sending the money to DCSS. You will get the
money back since there are no arrearages. Taking a chance the state has it right is a gamble I would be unwilling to take. Sending it directly to you ex doesn't sound like a good idea. Kudos for taking your responsibility seriously. Bill |
#4
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
"William Barger" wrote in message ... Personally I would continue sending the money to DCSS. You will get the money back since there are no arrearages. Taking a chance the state has it right is a gamble I would be unwilling to take. Sending it directly to you ex doesn't sound like a good idea. Kudos for taking your responsibility seriously. Bill Billyboob should not be taken seriously WRT anything regarding child support. He is a proven fool. But he is a expert on bird masturbation. |
#5
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
William Barger wrote: Personally I would continue sending the money to DCSS. You will get the money back since there are no arrearages. Taking a chance the state has it right is a gamble I would be unwilling to take. Sending it directly to you ex doesn't sound like a good idea. Kudos for taking your responsibility seriously. Twice in one day that I agree with Barger. Amazing. The State is trying to play a game with you to bleed you for a few last dollars of C$ before your obligation ends and you are cut out of their Satanic web. Don't let them win. They are lying to you in order to trick you into getting back into their clutches, just as you suspect. Send them the money right up until the child's 18th birthday, then hire a lawyer (you always have to hire a lawyer), get yourself physically back to the courtroom, and have a judge verify that you no longer need to pay. Bring a notary public of your own and have him stamp the judge's declaration that you no longer have an obligation. Make sure you get the original copy. Then, when you get the order in the mail a few weeks later, read over it carefully to make sure that CSE's lawyers didn't "insert" anything that the judge didn't authorize them to. This happened to me when my own CS case was evaluated a couple years ago, and it took months to straighten out (I had to threaten to report the offending lawyer to the state bar). - Ron ^*^ |
#6
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
"Moon Shyne" said in alt.child-support:
"SMH" wrote in message ... The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I asked the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed to be, because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year, which they cash each month. Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to collect on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to them comes back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears). That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18. What is the deal with this? I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the child's 18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the child's mother? Because that's what I am planning on doing. The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be summoning me before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few months short of the time of the child reaching majority. A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And the CA Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor" child. Anyone want to be a lawyer here? Thanks. First let me thank all who have provided helpful advice and questions. Why not sent the appropriate number of checks to cover until the month in which the child turns 18? I will have to send the payments directly to the mother. DCSS has said it will return any money to me beyond that. They are apparently washing their hands of this case. You should have a copy of the order for child suport that the county has - what does it say? Yes, I have entered the original order below. Clause 3 seems to be the relevant clause. (By the way the support award listed there has been increased SUBSTANTIALLY since the original order in modified orders, which only changed the support amount.) It says that I have to pay "until terminated by operation of law" or further order of the Court. Do I need a lawyer to interpret "operation of law"? This is the State of California Family Code Sections 3900-3902: 3900. Subject to this division, the father and mother of a minor child have an equal responsibility to support their child in the manner suitable to the child's circumstances. 3901. (a) The duty of support imposed by Section 3900 continues as to an unmarried child who has attained the age of 18 years, is a full-time high school student, and who is not self- supporting, until the time the child completes the 12th grade or attains the age of 19 years, whichever occurs first. (b) Nothing in this section limits a parent's ability to agree to provide additional support or the court's power to inquire whether an agreement to provide additional support has been made. 3902. The court may direct that an allowance be made to the parent of a child for whom support may be ordered out of the child's property for the child's past or future support, on conditions that are proper, if the direction is for the child's benefit. The child is graduating from high school in June or May of this year, although she will be just short of her 17th birthday (her mother inadvisedly skipped her a grade!). This child was, unfortunately, the product of a paternity suit, with the mother using the pregnancy as an ultimatum for marriage to me. No visitation was requested, and the child grew up pretty much fatherless. If I continue paying support, it would instead be to the child rather than to her reckless and conniving mother. Here is my problem: I live overseas in a developing country. I make $13,800 a year net (of course, I'd make 4-5 times that amount living and working in the U.S. in the same job, but my foreign national did not want to live in the U.S....go figure). The costs involved in dealing with a lawyer and the court in ENSURING that this order for support was officially terminated would be predictably considerable. I once had a lawyer tell me I must have been kidding asking him for a consult given my yearly income as a grad student, so I think I speak from some experience. Is it a mistake to assume that the 18th birthday comes and the mother gets indignant and asks the judge why I have stopped paying her for a child that has reached majority? ================ Relevant Text of Child Support Court Order ======== Filed 6 Aug 1990 JUDGMENT FOR REIMBURSEMENT OF WELFARE FUNDS AND CHILD SUPPORT BY STIPULATION It is hereby order and adjudged that: 1. mother's name and Defendant are the parents of child's name, born child's DOB 2. Defendant pay $xxx to reimburse county name for AFDC benefits provided for specified period 3. Defendant pay $139 per month for child support beginning July 1, 1990, and continuing until terminated by operation of law or further order of the Court. All payments are due on the first day of each month; 4. The child support and reimbursement of AFDC provided for in this stipulation meets or exceeds the minimum child support provided for by the Agnos Child Support Standards Act of 1984. The Defendant acknowledges that the right to support has been assigned to county name pursuant Welfare & Instiutions Code Section 11477. The support amount in this stipulation is based upon a determination that the net monthly disposable income for the parents is as follows: Custodial parent: $ -0- Non-custodial parent (Defendant) $ 769.73 5. A Wage Assignment shall issue; 6. Defendant pay $-0- for attorney fees and $-0- for court costs; 7. Defendant make all payments to the County Name District Attorney, Family Support Division with case number YY-XXXX on any check or money order; 8. Defendant notify the Family Support Division with ten (10) days of any change in address, employment, or termination of medical insurance for the child; 9. Defendant maintain medical insurance for the child whenever it is available through employment, or other medical group insurance; 10. All medical reimbursement rights for the care of the child which are not paid by the Defendant are assigned to the County Name pursuant to Civil Code Sec. 4358.5. 11. The District Attorney shall enforce this order. 12. Each party understands that the Court has continuing authority to make an order increasing or decreasing the amount of support payments. You have the right to request that the support be decreased or eliminated entirely. |
#7
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
Hire a lawyer. Always hire a lawyer. Hire a lawyer and show up physically to the courtroom. It will cost you a lot of money, but it will cost you MORE money if you don't. CSE and the rest of the conniving pack of hyenas are licking their chops waiting for you to slip up. They won't tell you you slipped up right away, they'll wait five years for the arrearage to add up and then surprise you with an arrest and jail time awaiting your automatic conviction of owing them thousands of dollars due to some technicality or other, backed up by the Bradley Amendment. This is how these crooks operate. It's like dealing with Tammany Hall. Do NOT send the money to the child's mother, when they spring their trap on you the judge will declare any money that didn't go through their system as being a "gift" and irrelevant to your arrearage. If you send the money to them and they send it back to you (unlikely), you will at least have some record of this and the whisper of a ghost of a chance in court when they try to gouge you years from now. - Ron ^*^ SMH wrote: "Moon Shyne" said in alt.child-support: "SMH" wrote in message ... The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I asked the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed to be, because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year, which they cash each month. Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to collect on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to them comes back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears). That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18. What is the deal with this? I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the child's 18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the child's mother? Because that's what I am planning on doing. The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be summoning me before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few months short of the time of the child reaching majority. A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And the CA Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor" child. Anyone want to be a lawyer here? Thanks. First let me thank all who have provided helpful advice and questions. Why not sent the appropriate number of checks to cover until the month in which the child turns 18? I will have to send the payments directly to the mother. DCSS has said it will return any money to me beyond that. They are apparently washing their hands of this case. You should have a copy of the order for child suport that the county has - what does it say? Yes, I have entered the original order below. Clause 3 seems to be the relevant clause. (By the way the support award listed there has been increased SUBSTANTIALLY since the original order in modified orders, which only changed the support amount.) It says that I have to pay "until terminated by operation of law" or further order of the Court. Do I need a lawyer to interpret "operation of law"? This is the State of California Family Code Sections 3900-3902: 3900. Subject to this division, the father and mother of a minor child have an equal responsibility to support their child in the manner suitable to the child's circumstances. 3901. (a) The duty of support imposed by Section 3900 continues as to an unmarried child who has attained the age of 18 years, is a full-time high school student, and who is not self- supporting, until the time the child completes the 12th grade or attains the age of 19 years, whichever occurs first. (b) Nothing in this section limits a parent's ability to agree to provide additional support or the court's power to inquire whether an agreement to provide additional support has been made. 3902. The court may direct that an allowance be made to the parent of a child for whom support may be ordered out of the child's property for the child's past or future support, on conditions that are proper, if the direction is for the child's benefit. The child is graduating from high school in June or May of this year, although she will be just short of her 17th birthday (her mother inadvisedly skipped her a grade!). This child was, unfortunately, the product of a paternity suit, with the mother using the pregnancy as an ultimatum for marriage to me. No visitation was requested, and the child grew up pretty much fatherless. If I continue paying support, it would instead be to the child rather than to her reckless and conniving mother. Here is my problem: I live overseas in a developing country. I make $13,800 a year net (of course, I'd make 4-5 times that amount living and working in the U.S. in the same job, but my foreign national did not want to live in the U.S....go figure). The costs involved in dealing with a lawyer and the court in ENSURING that this order for support was officially terminated would be predictably considerable. I once had a lawyer tell me I must have been kidding asking him for a consult given my yearly income as a grad student, so I think I speak from some experience. Is it a mistake to assume that the 18th birthday comes and the mother gets indignant and asks the judge why I have stopped paying her for a child that has reached majority? ================ Relevant Text of Child Support Court Order ======== Filed 6 Aug 1990 JUDGMENT FOR REIMBURSEMENT OF WELFARE FUNDS AND CHILD SUPPORT BY STIPULATION It is hereby order and adjudged that: 1. mother's name and Defendant are the parents of child's name, born child's DOB 2. Defendant pay $xxx to reimburse county name for AFDC benefits provided for specified period 3. Defendant pay $139 per month for child support beginning July 1, 1990, and continuing until terminated by operation of law or further order of the Court. All payments are due on the first day of each month; 4. The child support and reimbursement of AFDC provided for in this stipulation meets or exceeds the minimum child support provided for by the Agnos Child Support Standards Act of 1984. The Defendant acknowledges that the right to support has been assigned to county name pursuant Welfare & Instiutions Code Section 11477. The support amount in this stipulation is based upon a determination that the net monthly disposable income for the parents is as follows: Custodial parent: $ -0- Non-custodial parent (Defendant) $ 769.73 5. A Wage Assignment shall issue; 6. Defendant pay $-0- for attorney fees and $-0- for court costs; 7. Defendant make all payments to the County Name District Attorney, Family Support Division with case number YY-XXXX on any check or money order; 8. Defendant notify the Family Support Division with ten (10) days of any change in address, employment, or termination of medical insurance for the child; 9. Defendant maintain medical insurance for the child whenever it is available through employment, or other medical group insurance; 10. All medical reimbursement rights for the care of the child which are not paid by the Defendant are assigned to the County Name pursuant to Civil Code Sec. 4358.5. 11. The District Attorney shall enforce this order. 12. Each party understands that the Court has continuing authority to make an order increasing or decreasing the amount of support payments. You have the right to request that the support be decreased or eliminated entirely. |
#8
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
"SMH" wrote in message ... "Moon Shyne" said in alt.child-support: "SMH" wrote in message ... The child upon whom I pay support turns 18 in late June 2007, so I asked the county DCSS in California when my last payment is supposed to be, because I mail 12 post-dated checks from abroad each year, which they cash each month. Oddly enough, the county DCSS told me that they have orders not to collect on my account beyond 1 Feb 2007, and that any money I send to them comes back to me or goes to arrears (there are no arrears). That is about 3-4 months before the child turns 18. What is the deal with this? I can hardly believe that my monthly support stops short of the child's 18th birthday. Do I send the money instead directly to the child's mother? Because that's what I am planning on doing. The last thing I want is for the family law court judge to be summoning me before his bench asking me why I stopped paying a few months short of the time of the child reaching majority. A child is a minor until the 18th b'day in California, right? And the CA Family Code pretty much says I have to support the "minor" child. Anyone want to be a lawyer here? Thanks. First let me thank all who have provided helpful advice and questions. Why not sent the appropriate number of checks to cover until the month in which the child turns 18? I will have to send the payments directly to the mother. Bad idea. Send it to DCSS, so they have it in their records. Anything sent directly to the mother is not accounted for, and can be considered a gift. DCSS has said it will return any money to me beyond that. They are apparently washing their hands of this case. You should have a copy of the order for child suport that the county has - what does it say? Yes, I have entered the original order below. Clause 3 seems to be the relevant clause. (By the way the support award listed there has been increased SUBSTANTIALLY since the original order in modified orders, which only changed the support amount.) It says that I have to pay "until terminated by operation of law" or further order of the Court. Do I need a lawyer to interpret "operation of law"? No. It means you need a court order, cancelling the order to pay child support. You can file the motion yourself, get a court date, and represent yourself. You simply present to the judge, "Here's the court order, here's what it says, I'm here to have it terminated." Refer to the last paragraph. You have the right to have the order terminated. Avail yourself of that right. |
#9
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
"Moon Shyne" wrote "SMH" wrote Do I need a lawyer to interpret "operation of law"? No. It means you need a court order, cancelling the order to pay child support. You can file the motion yourself, get a court date, and represent yourself. You simply present to the judge, "Here's the court order, here's what it says, I'm here to have it terminated." Refer to the last paragraph. You have the right to have the order terminated. Avail yourself of that right. == She is correct and you might not even need to appear. Ask the court if you can appear telephonically. == |
#10
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Confused About County DCSS Collection
Telephonically?
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