Please tell me it gets better (stubborn 3 yr old)

I know good and well that it's normal for 3 yr olds to assert their
independence and will, and that's where a lot of the the "No" "I don't want
to", "I don't like it" and so on comes from, but right now, it's driving me
up the nearest tree. Combine that natural 3 yr old tendency with an
extremely verbal kid, and my daughter is debating everything, even if I
AGREE with her. So she'll make a comment like "This is Allosaurus. He's a
late jurassic dinosaur". I'll reply something like "Wow, that's really
interesting" and she'll tear up, stamp her foot, and yell "NO!! I SAID HE'S
A JURASSIC DINOSAUR!!"

It doesn't matter what I say. The response would be the same. If I say the
sky is blue today, she'll respond with "NO, IT'S BLUE!"

She does it on going almost anywhere-including to her favorite pizza place,
where she was insistent that "No, I don't like it" (she changed her tune
after I took her out of the restaurant).

Someone asking her a question almost invariably gets a meltdown. She can be
telling us a mile a minute about a toy, but let the clerk at the grocery
store ask her what the dinosaur's name is, and she'll almost invariably
respond with "I don't KNOW what is name is!!" said in tones that would lead
you to expect that she was being tortured.

She seems to have forgotten most of the manners she has, instead whining,
pouting, and crying to get everything (although she does straighten up and
act better after we send her from the table).

We're doing the limited choices (and not giving a choice if we're not happy
with both possibilities), making sure she has lots of warning of transitions
(and she can tell time on a digital clock and to some degree on an analog
clock, so "We're leaving in 10 minutes, at 6:00" has meaning to her), making
sure she's well rested (we've moved bedtime up, to accommodate that she's
not napping, as well as leaving a "quiet time" in the schedule), and so on,
and removing the audience, either by time outs in the hallway between the
bedrooms, encouraging her to cry in her room if she just needs a break, or
just plain doing something else and letting her fume on her own for a bit,
but it's still driving me crazy.

And she doesn't have a little sibling to account for the sudden "spoiled
brat-itis"!

Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!

On Apr 21, 12:01*pm, "Donna Metler" wrote:
I know good and well that it's normal for 3 yr olds to assert their
independence and will, and that's where a lot of the the "No" "I don't want
to", "I don't like it" and so on comes from, but right now, it's driving me
up the nearest tree. Combine that natural 3 yr old tendency with an
extremely verbal kid, and my daughter is debating everything, even if I
AGREE with *her. So she'll make a comment like "This is Allosaurus. He's a
late jurassic dinosaur". I'll reply something like "Wow, that's really
interesting" and she'll tear up, stamp her foot, and yell "NO!! I SAID HE'S
A JURASSIC DINOSAUR!!"

It doesn't matter what I say. The response would be the same. If I say the
sky is blue today, she'll respond with "NO, IT'S BLUE!"

She does it on going almost anywhere-including to her favorite pizza place,
where she was insistent that "No, I don't like it" (she changed her tune
after I took her out of the restaurant).

Someone asking her a question almost invariably gets a meltdown. She can be
telling us a mile a minute about a toy, but let the clerk at the grocery
store ask her what the dinosaur's name is, and she'll almost invariably
respond with "I don't KNOW what is name is!!" said in tones that would lead
you to expect that she was being tortured.

If she does not behave well when going out, but she still likes to go
out, a simple and appropriate punishment is that she stay home with
one parent while another parent shops or whatever.

My eldest son often threw tantrums when he was 3, and I got a little
worried about him, but now as a 4yo he has settled down a lot.

Finally, and most controversially, threatening a spanking often
effectively quells brattiness.

--
Donna DeVore Metler
Orff Music Specialist/Kindermusik
Mother to Angel Brian Anthony 1/1/2002, 22 weeks, severe PE/HELLP
And Allison Joy, 11/25/04 (35 weeks, PIH, Pre-term labor)
"Beliavsky" wrote in message
...
On Apr 21, 12:01 pm, "Donna Metler" wrote:
I know good and well that it's normal for 3 yr olds to assert their
independence and will, and that's where a lot of the the "No" "I don't
want
to", "I don't like it" and so on comes from, but right now, it's driving
me
up the nearest tree. Combine that natural 3 yr old tendency with an
extremely verbal kid, and my daughter is debating everything, even if I
AGREE with her. So she'll make a comment like "This is Allosaurus. He's a
late jurassic dinosaur". I'll reply something like "Wow, that's really
interesting" and she'll tear up, stamp her foot, and yell "NO!! I SAID
HE'S
A JURASSIC DINOSAUR!!"

It doesn't matter what I say. The response would be the same. If I say the
sky is blue today, she'll respond with "NO, IT'S BLUE!"

She does it on going almost anywhere-including to her favorite pizza
place,
where she was insistent that "No, I don't like it" (she changed her tune
after I took her out of the restaurant).

Someone asking her a question almost invariably gets a meltdown. She can
be
telling us a mile a minute about a toy, but let the clerk at the grocery
store ask her what the dinosaur's name is, and she'll almost invariably
respond with "I don't KNOW what is name is!!" said in tones that would
lead
you to expect that she was being tortured.

If she does not behave well when going out, but she still likes to go
out, a simple and appropriate punishment is that she stay home with
one parent while another parent shops or whatever.

--
Unfortunately, that's not really an option. I'm at home with her
approximately 12 hours a day that my husband is either at work or commuting.
Some days, it might be as little as 10. It would be extremely hard to do all
errands that I now do with her after 8 pm-and being with Daddy isn't a
punishment, but a reward.

I do try to take advantage of the time she's at MDO, but most of that I'm
teaching at the university.

-----

My eldest son often threw tantrums when he was 3, and I got a little
worried about him, but now as a 4yo he has settled down a lot.

Finally, and most controversially, threatening a spanking often
effectively quells brattiness.

---
I'm kind of hoping for the settling down at 4 thing here. It's such an
abrupt personality shift, and it seems to upset her so much when she gets to
the full tantrum stage that I don't really believe it's part of her innate
temperment (although she's always been very determined, in the past it's
been directed more at things and ideas than at people). It's not like my
younger brother, who started out tantrumming IN the womb (if you believe my
mother), and still, as an adult, runs miles a day to expend that excess
energy and emotion which otherwise can trigger his temper.

In article , Donna Metler says...

I know good and well that it's normal for 3 yr olds to assert their
independence and will, and that's where a lot of the the "No" "I don't want
to", "I don't like it" and so on comes from, but right now, it's driving me
up the nearest tree. Combine that natural 3 yr old tendency with an
extremely verbal kid, and my daughter is debating everything, even if I
AGREE with her. So she'll make a comment like "This is Allosaurus. He's a
late jurassic dinosaur". I'll reply something like "Wow, that's really
interesting" and she'll tear up, stamp her foot, and yell "NO!! I SAID HE'S
A JURASSIC DINOSAUR!!"

It doesn't matter what I say. The response would be the same. If I say the
sky is blue today, she'll respond with "NO, IT'S BLUE!"

She does it on going almost anywhere-including to her favorite pizza place,
where she was insistent that "No, I don't like it" (she changed her tune
after I took her out of the restaurant).

Someone asking her a question almost invariably gets a meltdown. She can be
telling us a mile a minute about a toy, but let the clerk at the grocery
store ask her what the dinosaur's name is, and she'll almost invariably
respond with "I don't KNOW what is name is!!" said in tones that would lead
you to expect that she was being tortured.

She seems to have forgotten most of the manners she has, instead whining,
pouting, and crying to get everything (although she does straighten up and
act better after we send her from the table).

We're doing the limited choices (and not giving a choice if we're not happy
with both possibilities), making sure she has lots of warning of transitions
(and she can tell time on a digital clock and to some degree on an analog
clock, so "We're leaving in 10 minutes, at 6:00" has meaning to her), making
sure she's well rested (we've moved bedtime up, to accommodate that she's
not napping, as well as leaving a "quiet time" in the schedule), and so on,
and removing the audience, either by time outs in the hallway between the
bedrooms, encouraging her to cry in her room if she just needs a break, or
just plain doing something else and letting her fume on her own for a bit,
but it's still driving me crazy.

And she doesn't have a little sibling to account for the sudden "spoiled
brat-itis"!

Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!


LOL. Yeah, my son was this cute, wonderful, happy, smiling toddler at 2.
Thought I was home free...

This stuff does sound sooooo 3-year-old, and yes, it gets better. By about 4 or
5 the extreme pickiness and meltdowns fade away. I'm convinced it's
developmental.

How to handle - I fergit - pretty much what you're doing, avoiding what triggers
I could (like he had this thing about passing our house or even the street our
house was on, without going home), taking it day by day, until one day you
realize it isnt happening anymore.

Banty

Donna Metler wrote:

And she doesn't have a little sibling to account for the sudden "spoiled
brat-itis"!

Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!

I think it's more developmental than anything else.
You just keep marching forward being consistent and allowing
plenty of time for the meltdowns and it'll all come out in the
wash in the end.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Banty" wrote in message
...
In article , Donna Metler
says...

I know good and well that it's normal for 3 yr olds to assert their
independence and will, and that's where a lot of the the "No" "I don't
want
to", "I don't like it" and so on comes from, but right now, it's driving
me
up the nearest tree. Combine that natural 3 yr old tendency with an
extremely verbal kid, and my daughter is debating everything, even if I
AGREE with her. So she'll make a comment like "This is Allosaurus. He's a
late jurassic dinosaur". I'll reply something like "Wow, that's really
interesting" and she'll tear up, stamp her foot, and yell "NO!! I SAID
HE'S
A JURASSIC DINOSAUR!!"

It doesn't matter what I say. The response would be the same. If I say the
sky is blue today, she'll respond with "NO, IT'S BLUE!"

She does it on going almost anywhere-including to her favorite pizza
place,
where she was insistent that "No, I don't like it" (she changed her tune
after I took her out of the restaurant).

Someone asking her a question almost invariably gets a meltdown. She can
be
telling us a mile a minute about a toy, but let the clerk at the grocery
store ask her what the dinosaur's name is, and she'll almost invariably
respond with "I don't KNOW what is name is!!" said in tones that would
lead
you to expect that she was being tortured.

She seems to have forgotten most of the manners she has, instead whining,
pouting, and crying to get everything (although she does straighten up and
act better after we send her from the table).

We're doing the limited choices (and not giving a choice if we're not
happy
with both possibilities), making sure she has lots of warning of
transitions
(and she can tell time on a digital clock and to some degree on an analog
clock, so "We're leaving in 10 minutes, at 6:00" has meaning to her),
making
sure she's well rested (we've moved bedtime up, to accommodate that she's
not napping, as well as leaving a "quiet time" in the schedule), and so
on,
and removing the audience, either by time outs in the hallway between the
bedrooms, encouraging her to cry in her room if she just needs a break, or
just plain doing something else and letting her fume on her own for a bit,
but it's still driving me crazy.

And she doesn't have a little sibling to account for the sudden "spoiled
brat-itis"!

Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!


LOL. Yeah, my son was this cute, wonderful, happy, smiling toddler at 2.
Thought I was home free...

This stuff does sound sooooo 3-year-old, and yes, it gets better. By
about 4 or
5 the extreme pickiness and meltdowns fade away. I'm convinced it's
developmental.



I agree completely... with one caveat. (And this caveat may make no sense to
anyone ... maybe it comes from seeing some weird parenting styles in the
daycare business.) IF you react to tantrums and whines with appeasement, you
will teach your child to tantrum and whine. Of course, this seems obvious.
But any given moment of tantrum can be hard to recognize as such. Seems like
you are on it though.

How to handle - I fergit - pretty much what you're doing, avoiding what
triggers
I could (like he had this thing about passing our house or even the street
our
house was on, without going home), taking it day by day, until one day you
realize it isnt happening anymore.

Banty

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
Donna Metler wrote:

And she doesn't have a little sibling to account for the sudden "spoiled
brat-itis"!

Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!

I think it's more developmental than anything else.
You just keep marching forward being consistent and allowing
plenty of time for the meltdowns and it'll all come out in the
wash in the end.

Best wishes,
Ericka


What she said.

Stephanie wrote:

I agree completely... with one caveat. (And this caveat may make no sense to
anyone ... maybe it comes from seeing some weird parenting styles in the
daycare business.) IF you react to tantrums and whines with appeasement, you
will teach your child to tantrum and whine. Of course, this seems obvious.
But any given moment of tantrum can be hard to recognize as such. Seems like
you are on it though.

Absolutely. A friend has always said that just because
something is developmentally normal doesn't mean you can ignore
it. It's normal at some stages to have meltdowns or push boundaries,
but if you don't respond appropriately as a parent, you're likely
to turn a developmental stage into a habit that's very hard to
break. However, knowing it's a developmental stage that the
child has limited control over (they're melting down because
their control *isn't* solid yet) suggests to most that corporal
punishment isn't the best strategy. Even proponents would limit
corporal punishment to things the child really has some control
over.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
Stephanie wrote:

I agree completely... with one caveat. (And this caveat may make no sense
to anyone ... maybe it comes from seeing some weird parenting styles in
the daycare business.) IF you react to tantrums and whines with
appeasement, you will teach your child to tantrum and whine. Of course,
this seems obvious. But any given moment of tantrum can be hard to
recognize as such. Seems like you are on it though.

Absolutely. A friend has always said that just because
something is developmentally normal doesn't mean you can ignore
it. It's normal at some stages to have meltdowns or push boundaries,
but if you don't respond appropriately as a parent, you're likely
to turn a developmental stage into a habit that's very hard to
break. However, knowing it's a developmental stage that the
child has limited control over (they're melting down because
their control *isn't* solid yet) suggests to most that corporal
punishment isn't the best strategy. Even proponents would limit
corporal punishment to things the child really has some control
over.

Best wishes,
Ericka


Exactly. Well said.

Donna Metler wrote:
And she doesn't have a little sibling to account for the sudden "spoiled
brat-itis"!

Does anyone have any suggestions for surviving this stage or how long it
lasts? I want my sweet, cheerful, cooperative 2 yr old back!

You actually had her cooperating when she was 2? Wow! My DD (now 2.5)
has been in the brat-itis phase as soon as she could talk. What works
very well is to say things in the opposite sense of what you want her to
do. That was a tip from my mom, since it apparently worked very well for
me when I was that age... E.g. saying "I'm sure you don't like that"
will respond in an instant "Oh yes, I do!".

Besides that, if she wants to argue, I try to catch her off-guard by
suddenly changing the topic into something I know she will respond to
(like suggesting a favorite toy).

Having dealt with only boys before, I'm not sure how long it will last.
With me, it never really stopped. Someone telling me I couldn't possibly
do something is still *the* best way to get me to do things, even if I
don't like it :-)

So ignore, ignore, ignore, and if you melt down and scream back, don't
beat yourself up over it. BTDT...

I
--
mommy of TG and TB (2.5)
mommy of DS (5.5)
guardian of DH (age classified)