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Really losing my patience...



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 2nd 09, 05:05 AM posted to misc.kids
Kat
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Posts: 177
Default Really losing my patience...

With DS... He's 8 (as of yesterday) and for a while now, I've been really
losing my patience with him.

I think it's been at least 3-4 days since he has had a shower or bath. NOT
acceptable in my books. I believe a shower (or bath) is required around
here every second day at the most.

It's Sunday evening and he has school in the morning, and I've been telling
him to get in the bath for the last 45 minutes now. He'll yell and talk
back, telling me he doesn't want to. I tell him I didn't ask what he wanted
to do, I told him to do something. I'm getting very frustrated with him.
When told to have a bath, he'll yell and scream and cry. I actually find my
patience is very, VERY thin with him lately about this.

The only reason he went is because I nearly had to drag him a few minutes
ago. He's lost any priviledge of the video game for the next 2 days for
mouthing off and talking back. A video game is NOT a necessity, it is
definitely a luxury that I can and will take away from him.

My parents got him one of those DS things for Christmas, and my mom actually
said right from the start that other than it is not to go to school or leave
the house (unless going somewhere that it's appropriate) it is also
something she told him I (me, not her) can and will take away if he abuses
it (like taking it to school, unacceptable behaviour, etc) she made that
clear so there was no surprises, I guess, and to try and avoid any argument
over it. I had also expressed some concerns when I found out she bought
this for him before Christmas. I wasn't exactly thrilled about it. It was
something he had specifically asked for and wanted, and something that was
not in my price range of affordability this year as a gift... I spent not
even half of the cost of this DS on all the kids for Christmas due to a
very, very limited income and very, very tight, set budget. I was direct
with my mom about it and how I felt about it, and told her that this is an
extra thing to have, not really a necessity, and a fairly costly extra at
that. She then had said that it WAS my call about it - she could hold it
until his birthday a month later to see if behaviour improves or she could
give it for Christmas and if behaviour isn't a little closer to ideal, it
can be something that stays only at Grandma and Grandpa's for use when he's
there only. She also said that although she bought it, I would still have
control over it - that it is something she would back me up if DS complained
to her about me taking it away or something. This is one of the few
'extras' I do take away... He loses it for 2 days if I find out he's been
sneaking it off to school (and he has in the past snuck it past me, but now
each morning I make sure I try and remember to have it in my hands before he
leaves, and many times he's pulled it out of his school bag after a slight
fight.

There's now few things that I will take away or have him lose priviledges
over. This bath situation is just really pushing my buttons. He'll stomp
off and under his breath say, "I hate you" or something like that. When I
told him he's in the bath NOW and will wash his body and hair properly,
again, he hates me, all the while crying. I'm just really frustrated. I
don't imagine this is normal for his age or anything, is it?

Recently he refused to get a hair cut. His hair was looking really bad and
I do not like long hair on little boys. I ended up NOT fighting that battle
and made a deal that he can grow it out if he wants, but he is keeping it
properly trimmed so it looks like its taken care of - not neglected. He was
fine with trimming his hair and this deal, and ever since I haven't even
bothered fighting over the longer hair with him. The shower, though, is not
up for debate. The hair, whatever. It can grow, be cut, trimmed, styled,
left alone, whatever, but not washing your self and hair and having a shower
or bath is just not an option.

Is there anything I can do about this? I told him right now he's in the
bath and he's washing properly and if I find he has not, I will personally
take him back to the bath, put him in and wash his hair and body for him if
that's what he wants and if that's what it takes.

To me this is picking my battles because around here, we all shower. It's
not optional. Is there a better way I can handle this and deal with it?
Clearly I'm sick of fighting with him over it. He also cannot give an
answer as to why he "doesn't want to" - it's just because he doesn't want
to, or that's what he tells me.


  #2  
Old February 2nd 09, 07:38 AM posted to misc.kids
toypup[_2_]
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Posts: 222
Default Really losing my patience...


--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kat"
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 8:05 PM
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Really losing my patience...


There's now few things that I will take away or have him lose priviledges
over.


He sounds like a handful. Is there a reason you don't take things away from
him or revoke his privileges? Am I just getting the wrong impression and
maybe he's such a good kid that the only thing wrong right now is the bath
situation?

Is there anything I can do about this? I told him right now he's in the
bath and he's washing properly and if I find he has not, I will personally
take him back to the bath, put him in and wash his hair and body for him
if that's what he wants and if that's what it takes.

To me this is picking my battles because around here, we all shower. It's
not optional. Is there a better way I can handle this and deal with it?
Clearly I'm sick of fighting with him over it. He also cannot give an
answer as to why he "doesn't want to" - it's just because he doesn't want
to, or that's what he tells me.


I wouldn't ask why he doesn't want to. That just drags out the battle.

Personally, I would just give him a bath every night so that it's a ritual.
He wouldn't question whether it's bath night or not because it's always bath
night.

As for what I do with my son's Wii -- which my brother gave him even though
I said DS didn't need one -- is that he gets to play with it only 30 minutes
a day. If he earns five stars for good behavior, he will get to play all
day. If he exceeds 30 minutes on a day he should not exceed it, he will
lose it for a week. I am very clear about the rules and he follows them
well. He is 7, so it can be done.

I suggest you take away the DS completely and he gets it only when he
behaves, like when he takes his bath without a fight (and no sulking,
whining, name calling, etc.), Use it as the reward for whatever behavior
you wish to improve

  #3  
Old February 2nd 09, 08:12 AM posted to misc.kids
Kat
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Posts: 177
Default Really losing my patience...


"toypup" wrote in message
...

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Kat"
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 8:05 PM
Newsgroups: misc.kids
Subject: Really losing my patience...


There's now few things that I will take away or have him lose priviledges
over.


He sounds like a handful. Is there a reason you don't take things away
from
him or revoke his privileges? Am I just getting the wrong impression and
maybe he's such a good kid that the only thing wrong right now is the bath
situation?


I agree that he IS a handful, and then some. He's not a bad kid, though...
But yes, he's definitely a challenge and a handful.
There's other issues, but nothing that's come pretty much out of nowhere
like this has.
The main reason I don't take much else away is because there's really not
much else to take away. Well, the computer, I forgot, which he is limited
to for his games during the day, and he does lose playing on the computer if
need be.
I've kind of stopped taking away things like going to Grandma and Grandpa's
house and similar things. With the kids' dad now MIA, basically, I feel he
does benefit from time spent at my parents' place. He has my dad and
brothers there as good male role models, which I know he has been lacking
with, even when my now-ex was around.

Is there anything I can do about this? I told him right now he's in the
bath and he's washing properly and if I find he has not, I will
personally take him back to the bath, put him in and wash his hair and
body for him if that's what he wants and if that's what it takes.

To me this is picking my battles because around here, we all shower.
It's not optional. Is there a better way I can handle this and deal with
it? Clearly I'm sick of fighting with him over it. He also cannot give
an answer as to why he "doesn't want to" - it's just because he doesn't
want to, or that's what he tells me.


I wouldn't ask why he doesn't want to. That just drags out the battle.


Yes, I've noticed. lol

Personally, I would just give him a bath every night so that it's a
ritual.
He wouldn't question whether it's bath night or not because it's always
bath
night.


This would be a real challenge. I mostly give the kids an actual bath (or
shower, whatever) every second evening mostly because of DDs. Both have
horribly sensitive skin, as I do, and a bath every night, I found in the
past, often brings on skin problems with DDs, mainly DD1 (who's skin seems
to be VERY much like mine with major issues) and both girls LOVE baths.
Even lately I've been tossing them both in the shower together because both
are getting longer hair and sitting in bath water with shampoo and soap
tends to bring on rashes, and even yeast infections with DD1 (which I've had
issues with since she was about 8 or 10 days old, but haven't had that
problem for probably almost a year now - yay haha) If DS was bathing every
night, DDs would want to as well. Which just causes them problems. I am
also at the VERY end of this pregnancy, with a due date of Saturday, and I
find it extremely hard to kneel over the bath or stand up when they're in
the shower. That is just an excuse, but I find it is hard on me as of late.
I suppose DS could shower once DDs are in bed, if it would involve less
crying and noise from DS.

As for what I do with my son's Wii -- which my brother gave him even
though
I said DS didn't need one -- is that he gets to play with it only 30
minutes
a day. If he earns five stars for good behavior, he will get to play all
day. If he exceeds 30 minutes on a day he should not exceed it, he will
lose it for a week. I am very clear about the rules and he follows them
well. He is 7, so it can be done.


DS normally gets about half an hour at bed time to play this DS every night.
There's no time in the morning, it is not to go to school, after school
involves homework, a bit of time to run around outside, supper, a little bit
of TV then bed time - and at bed time is when he normally plays the games
and it is not more than half an hour at night. I also find that often he
will pick a book to read for half an hour or so over the game. He also does
take the games with him if we go somewhere. Shopping is MUCH easier on me
if he sits in the cart and plays. Also, if we go somewhere, he does play it
in the van.

I suggest you take away the DS completely and he gets it only when he
behaves, like when he takes his bath without a fight (and no sulking,
whining, name calling, etc.), Use it as the reward for whatever behavior
you wish to improve


Maybe this is a real good idea to try. It's mine until he has a bath and is
ready for bed, then he could have his half an hour - as long as it doesn't
run past his normal bed time, of course. Or for something similar.


  #4  
Old February 2nd 09, 08:58 AM posted to misc.kids
Tai[_2_]
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Posts: 68
Default Really losing my patience...

Kat wrote:
With DS... He's 8 (as of yesterday) and for a while now, I've been
really losing my patience with him.

I think it's been at least 3-4 days since he has had a shower or
bath. NOT acceptable in my books. I believe a shower (or bath) is
required around here every second day at the most.

It's Sunday evening and he has school in the morning, and I've been
telling him to get in the bath for the last 45 minutes now.


There's your problem right there. Tell him to get in the shower twice, 10
minutes apart. When he doesn't hop to it after the second time, take him
there yourself. If he doesn't like you washing him that should help to get
him on the inside of a shut bathroom door. If he doesn't mind if you soap
and shampoo him yet then in approximately 5 mintues he will be scrubbed and
getting himself dry, thus saving you 30 minutes of rising blood pressure.

Eventually he will be so freaked by the idea of you washing him he will
disappear into the bathroom (there to smear the grime around his body) at
the suggestion you will 'help' him with his time management problem.

My 8 year old is about a week older than yours and he showers daily as part
of his bedtime routine. Very occasionally he doesn't but it is so much the
exception that he expects to be in the bathroom in evenings, getting wet.
Does this mean you can't get your son to clean his teeth either? That's
going to end up being expensive for you at some point!


He'll
yell and talk back, telling me he doesn't want to.


So? It's only white noise, after all. He would do that less if it worked
less well for him to make a fuss and dig his heels in. Give him choices but
make them more about the 'whens' than the 'ifs' he will do something.

I tell him I
didn't ask what he wanted to do, I told him to do something. I'm
getting very frustrated with him. When told to have a bath, he'll
yell and scream and cry. I actually find my patience is very, VERY
thin with him lately about this.


Well. Mine would last approximately 2 minutes if there was any screaming and
crying going on so you're definitely much more tolerant than I will ever be.


The only reason he went is because I nearly had to drag him a few
minutes ago.


That's fine, too. Toddlers sometimes need to be picked up to get them to do
what you need them to. If an 8 year old is still behaving like a toddler,
treat him like one. Tell him that's what you are doing. You are the mother
which means you are the boss. Live it, believe it. If you can't handle him
while he is still young and small enough to control how will you use your
(benevolent) parental authority when he's a man's size with an adolescent's
hormonal poisonality?


He's lost any priviledge of the video game for the next
2 days for mouthing off and talking back. A video game is NOT a
necessity, it is definitely a luxury that I can and will take away
from him.


Good. Don't take the DS off him for 2 days if he tries to sneak it out of
the house, make it a full week, instead. The next time, make it two weeks.
Up the ante.

I've deleted the rest of your post but I'll make these comments. I do think
you have a handful there and your wee lad pushes the boundaries more than
most. However, you need to keep a better handle on the time you allow him to
do something you really want him to do. He can't tell when you are "picking
your battles" if they all start out the same way and sometimes you give in
after a fuss and sometimes you don't.

Be consistent and tell him up front what you want him to do and how long he
has before he is to start. That means you'll have to decide before you say
anything to him, as well. If you both know he has x minutes to start doing
something/put his clothes away/set the table/feed the cat then you will both
know the last possible moment he can get away with stalling. If you let him
go past that time you are reinforcing that you are a marshmallow as far as
discipline is concerned and he is the boss.

I'm sure I sound very harsh and uncompromising! But I give my children a lot
of freedom and generous limits to decide when they are going to do a task
I've set them. Showering isn't really one that's negotioable below the age
12, say. Nor is cleaning their teeth (the money we've spent on
orthodontics!), washing their hands or cleaning up after themselves once
they are old enough to do so. I'm their mother, not their bond servant.


  #5  
Old February 2nd 09, 10:41 AM posted to misc.kids
Narelle
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Posts: 13
Default Really losing my patience...

Kat wrote:
With DS... He's 8 (as of yesterday) and for a while now, I've been really
losing my patience with him.

snip ds story


Hi Kat,

Not really much advice, but please take it easy on yourself. You are
about to have a baby any day now (?), and are an exhausted single mum
doing it really tough. My heart goes out to you.

I agree that showering is not negotiable, and is a battle that needs to
be picked, so stay strong and and make him shower/brush teeth/be
generally hygenic.

From this post and others, your son seems to be somewhat similar to my
DS3. A handful to say the least.

So, as my DS3 is diagnosed ADHD/ODD, I am wondering if anyone has
mentioned the possibility of this for your DS? What does his teacher/s,
family, parents say of him? Even if it is not either of these
conditions, perhaps a chat to your school counsellor would be helpful
anyway for both you and he.

All the best,
Narelle
  #6  
Old February 2nd 09, 02:17 PM posted to misc.kids
Ericka
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Posts: 64
Default Really losing my patience...

Kat wrote:

It's Sunday evening and he has school in the morning, and I've been telling
him to get in the bath for the last 45 minutes now. He'll yell and talk
back, telling me he doesn't want to. I tell him I didn't ask what he wanted
to do, I told him to do something. I'm getting very frustrated with him.
When told to have a bath, he'll yell and scream and cry. I actually find my
patience is very, VERY thin with him lately about this.


Hard to say without being there, but it sounds like
you're falling into the trap of discussing everything and
dragging it out. It sounds like he knows he's got you over
a barrel. He can drag things out and make life unpleasant
for everyone anytime he wants simply by not doing what he's
told.
I think if I were you, I would stop all the negotiating
and recriminations and yelling and so on. Tell him once
(very clearly, make sure you have his attention). Remind
him once (without yelling or carrying on). Then take him
to do whatever it is that needs doing. Ignore everything
else.
Also, while I think you do have to pick your
battles, you have to be reasonably consistent with the
battles you pick. Decide what principles you're going to
stand on in advance and hold fast. Don't decide a battle
isn't worth fighting once you've already engaged. Before
you even put one foot on that path, make sure you're willing
to see it through. If you do not have the time or energy
to enforce a bath right at that moment, then don't tell him
to take a bath. And don't start to wage a battle over the
hair and then decide belatedly that it isn't worth fighting
about. Try hard to decide whether it's important beforehand.
Right now, he needs to know that when you give him clear
direction, he *is* going to do what's needed and he just
gets to choose whether to do it with a decent attitude
in reasonably short order, or whether he gets to do it after
causing a fuss and losing privileges. Remember--the attitude
and foot-dragging and so on aren't consequences to him.
They're consequences *to you*. To him, they're evidence
that he's in control of the situation, and you're not.
He doesn't find all that ugliness a deterrent.

I also think you're ripe to fall into the trap
of failing to insist on proper behavior because you're
feeling sad or guilty over the difficult times you all
have been going through. While I think difficult times
call for more love and attention and making sure that
children have time and space to talk about things and
so forth, letting kids get away with murder actually
tends to be quite unsettling to them. They need to know
that even though Dad isn't around, you still care enough
to hold them to appropriate standards. They need to know
that the situation isn't so bad that it's causing their
world to crumble. They need order and predictability,
at least with the important stuff. Any smart 8yo worth
his salt will test limits in this situation to see if
he can get away with things. The fact that he's testing
limits doesn't mean that he needs you to go all soft on
the limits to show you care. It means you need to stand
strong on the important limits to show that you're strong
enough and care enough to keep him and his world safe.

Best wishes,
Ericka
  #7  
Old February 2nd 09, 03:11 PM posted to misc.kids
Rosalie B.
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Posts: 984
Default Really losing my patience...

"Kat" wrote:

Recently he refused to get a hair cut. His hair was looking really bad and
I do not like long hair on little boys. I ended up NOT fighting that battle
and made a deal that he can grow it out if he wants, but he is keeping it
properly trimmed so it looks like its taken care of - not neglected. He was
fine with trimming his hair and this deal, and ever since I haven't even
bothered fighting over the longer hair with him. The shower, though, is not
up for debate. The hair, whatever. It can grow, be cut, trimmed, styled,
left alone, whatever, but not washing your self and hair and having a shower
or bath is just not an option.


I ran across a photo of my son when he had long hair the other day. He
grew his hair out to almost shoulder length and had a permanent put in
it (all his sisters have curly hair), and he even had his ear pierced
when he was in HS. My dh who is a military haircut man totally didn't
remember that. My son eventually decided on his own that long hair
was too much trouble.

Personally I never liked to shower and have to force myself to do it.
Something about the water hitting my skin. We didn't even have a
shower until I was in HS when my mom had the bathrooms remodeled. But
I really don't like the bathtub that much either because it takes so
long. I love swimming, but I don't enjoy sitting in the bathtub.

When I was a kid I had very long hair (never been cut), and my mom
used to wash it in the sink because we couldn't really do it in the
bathtub very well. I will still sometimes stick my head under the
bathtub faucet to wash my hair (which is very short now) when I don't
have time to do the whole shower thing. [I just towel my hair off and
run a brush through it so it is all going the same direction - I don't
even own a blow drier.]

In the old days before people had running water, they only bathed once
a week (and sometimes not even that). Little children (before they
reach puberty) don't really need to bathe that often for odor - just
to get the dirt off. We used to do what my mom called sponge baths
where we washed all over with a washcloth (the water was in the sink),
in between baths. We would go camping, and sleep out for 2 nights and
the third night we'd go to a tourist cabin or motel where we could
have a bath.

After puberty, they do need to bathe more regularly, but usually at
that point they are also interested in looking good.


Is there anything I can do about this? I told him right now he's in the
bath and he's washing properly and if I find he has not, I will personally
take him back to the bath, put him in and wash his hair and body for him if
that's what he wants and if that's what it takes.

To me this is picking my battles because around here, we all shower. It's
not optional. Is there a better way I can handle this and deal with it?
Clearly I'm sick of fighting with him over it. He also cannot give an
answer as to why he "doesn't want to" - it's just because he doesn't want
to, or that's what he tells me.


Ask again and tell him that if he has no reason, then I will do the
1,2,3 thing and if he hasn't started the process by the time you get
to 3, then you get to wash him. Sometimes there is a reason, but they
don't want to express it.
  #8  
Old February 2nd 09, 04:14 PM posted to misc.kids
Nikki
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Posts: 486
Default Really losing my patience...

Kat wrote:

To me this is picking my battles because around here, we all shower. It's
not optional. Is there a better way I can handle this and deal with it?
Clearly I'm sick of fighting with him over it. He also cannot give an
answer as to why he "doesn't want to" - it's just because he doesn't want
to, or that's what he tells me.


I'm going to suggest something different. Mostly because I can not
imagine myself forcing my 7.5yo into a shower. I'm much larger then
him, quite strong for a woman, and I'm not pregnant. I don't think
there is anyway you can reasonable say "I will wash you." as you would a
toddler and follow through with it. He's at an age where, IMO, you have
to figure out a way to convince him to take a shower on his own. You
can't physically make him.

My 7yo is a bit defiant too. I will share what would work best with
him. Of course all kids respond differently to different things so take
it or leave it if it won't seem to work!

I'd make a visual schedule. I just wrote one on a large piece of tag
board. It was very basic but it spelled out what nights he helped with
supper (he also got some say on what was fixed those nights), when the
TV had to go off, which nights were his bath night etc. IME these things
are a bit rough the first couple of weeks but if you stick with it, they
really save the day. I can't get my dh to follow it (ugh) so we no
longer use it but you won't have to worry about that (this might be one
plus to being single!).

I set up a reward system based on that schedule. Earn marbles or
tokens, a scoop of popcorn in a jar, stickers. Anything really. The
rewards aren't even that important to him. He's competitive and a bit
of a perfectionist so he just wanted to earn the marble. Because of
that personality trait he was following the schedule for himself and so
he wasn't not doing things just to be defiant. (FWIW - reward systems
don't work at all for my other kid. He's not even very responsive to
the chart but the routine still helps in the long haul.)

I have a lights out time. I set the schedule up so that there is plenty
of time to get everything done 1/2 hour before lights out. Then I read
to him or with him, or play a game or something. It is like a built in
reward to get through the day in a reasonable way. Not giving him the
DS until after his daily schedule is done is a good idea too.

The key is to set up a nice schedule, with desirable outcomes for
completing it, and then giving one reminder and letting it go. If he
doesn't do it, he doesn't earn the reward. If you spend to much time
reminding him or trying to cajole him into following the schedule - you
are the one invested in the schedule, not him. You have to be prepared
to let him go a long time without a shower. He has to figure out that
he is the one that needs to be invested in it, not you.

In your situation you might set up something a little different. Have
the daily schedule and the 1/2 hour at the end of the day to do
something enjoyable with him if he did the whole schedule. Set up the
reward chart based on the showers only. That way he has the power to
see daily benefits (that last half hour of the day) of getting through
the schedule on time but also have a little extra motivation/ or
reinforcement to do the showers.

After all that my boys don't like to shower in the winter either. They
bath/shower about once every 3 days. They still like things like foam
soap, new toys to take in the tub, sometimes I'll take a radio in while
they bath. I try to think of something new and out of the ordinary.
I'm also lucky that I have all boys because sometimes they'll get in
just to play with the little boys.

PS: I haven't forgotten the diapers. I plan to send them off this week.

--

Nikki
 




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