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Help! Toddler left in car question



 
 
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  #11  
Old February 28th 05, 08:44 PM
Caledonia
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P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check

on a
rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat,

napping,
and
my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The

windows
were
all down (this thanks to me -- my friend thought you could leave

the
windows
up on a 70 degree day in Tucson! This is the kind of thing that

worries
me
about my friend.). We were in the house about 15-20 minutes.

She never
went to check on the toddler and we could not see the car from the

house
unless we were in the front room. We went all over the house and

the back
yard. My husband went to check on the toddler during this time.

My
friend
did not know he did it. I felt VERY uncomfortable about the fact

that my
friend left her kid in the car unattended and I mentioned it to

her. She
dismissed my concerns, saying that it was a safe neighborhood and

one she
was familiar with. She also said that she didn't like to wake up

her
daughter from her nap because she was so tired. I do not have

children.
I
know that I would NEVER leave my baby (if I had one) alone in a

car, but
maybe I am just paranoid -- maybe, since I don't have kids, I just

don't
understand. What should I do? Should I mention it again, more

forcefully
this time?


I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were

in the
exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd
just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait

outside,
as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so

long."
Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your

In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do,

but you
are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child)

yourself.
So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as

that's
usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by

example.

As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as

making
sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a

loaf
of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases,
I can see the car pretty much at all times.



P.
Tierney


I think P. Tierney's advice is spot on -- the other point is that the
ratio of adults to children in your Tucson example was 3:1 Things get
trickier when the ratio is 1:3 and aren't as straightforward as
carrying 1 child with you. We don't use the 'one minute standard' as a
'gold standard,' since there are places where *I* wouldn't want to be
left alone in the car for a minute. There are also places where it's
more reasonable leave a child asleep, but this doesn't sound like one.

I find the 'scared straight' approach suggested to be just
scaremongering -- I mean, would you really abduct a baby from a
hospital to teach someone that they should have roomed-in? (Having been
in healthcare, I remember learning about attempted (non-reportable)
infant abductions and just finding it, well, grim. On the upside,
successful hospital abductions have been declining since the 90's.)

Caledonia

  #12  
Old February 28th 05, 09:38 PM
Cathy Kearns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"toypup" wrote in message
om...

"Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message
u...
Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then that
even)


I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was
unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in the back
seat and the thief didn't know it.


Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent
was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away.
From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the
entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not
saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks fear
mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones, like
a child overheating in a parked car.


  #13  
Old February 28th 05, 10:12 PM
lenny fackler
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check

on a
rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat,

napping,
and
my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The

windows
were
all down (this thanks to me -- my friend thought you could leave

the
windows
up on a 70 degree day in Tucson! This is the kind of thing that

worries
me
about my friend.). We were in the house about 15-20 minutes.

She never
went to check on the toddler and we could not see the car from the

house
unless we were in the front room. We went all over the house and

the back
yard. My husband went to check on the toddler during this time.

My
friend
did not know he did it. I felt VERY uncomfortable about the fact

that my
friend left her kid in the car unattended and I mentioned it to

her. She
dismissed my concerns, saying that it was a safe neighborhood and

one she
was familiar with. She also said that she didn't like to wake up

her
daughter from her nap because she was so tired. I do not have

children.
I
know that I would NEVER leave my baby (if I had one) alone in a

car, but
maybe I am just paranoid -- maybe, since I don't have kids, I just

don't
understand. What should I do? Should I mention it again, more

forcefully
this time?


I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were

in the
exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd
just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait

outside,
as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so

long."
Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your

In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do,

but you
are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child)

yourself.
So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as

that's
usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by

example.

As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as

making
sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a

loaf
of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases,
I can see the car pretty much at all times.



P.
Tierney


Makes sense, but I'm so paranoid that I've never left them even to pay
for gas or whatever. If I lost the kids my wife would kill me.

  #14  
Old February 28th 05, 10:17 PM
Stephanie Stowe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
om...

"toypup" wrote in message
om...

"Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message
u...
Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then
that
even)


I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was
unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in the
back
seat and the thief didn't know it.


Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent
was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away.
From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the
entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not
saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks fear
mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones, like
a child overheating in a parked car.



The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the kids in
the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not so much the
likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?* As I said to my DH,
who just paled upon thinking about it, the consequences are so horrifyingly
small that a vanishingly small chance is just not small enough.

I am with you on making things seem what they are not. I do not see the
value in it. But even if temperature is not a problem, I still would not
leave my kids.


  #15  
Old February 28th 05, 10:17 PM
Irene
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


P. Tierney wrote:
"nimue" wrote in message
...
I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check

on a
rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat,

napping,
and
my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The

windows
were
all down (this thanks to me -- my friend thought you could leave

the
windows
up on a 70 degree day in Tucson! This is the kind of thing that

worries
me
about my friend.). We were in the house about 15-20 minutes.

She never
went to check on the toddler and we could not see the car from the

house
unless we were in the front room. We went all over the house and

the back
yard. My husband went to check on the toddler during this time.

My
friend
did not know he did it. I felt VERY uncomfortable about the fact

that my
friend left her kid in the car unattended and I mentioned it to

her. She
dismissed my concerns, saying that it was a safe neighborhood and

one she
was familiar with. She also said that she didn't like to wake up

her
daughter from her nap because she was so tired. I do not have

children.
I
know that I would NEVER leave my baby (if I had one) alone in a

car, but
maybe I am just paranoid -- maybe, since I don't have kids, I just

don't
understand. What should I do? Should I mention it again, more

forcefully
this time?


I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were

in the
exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd
just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait

outside,
as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so

long."
Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your

In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do,

but you
are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child)

yourself.
So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as

that's
usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by

example.

As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as

making
sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a

loaf
of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases,
I can see the car pretty much at all times.

Actually, the gas station is one place I never leave kids in the car
(thank goodness for pay at the pump!) I've heard too many stories of
car-jackings, and gas stations seem to be the most popular locations.
And if I do leave kids in the car, I never leave the car running - that
really makes me paranoid, both from a car-jacking point, and from a
"what if the kid gets out of the carseat" point.

Irene

  #16  
Old February 28th 05, 10:35 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


P. Tierney wrote:

I don't think it's necessary to be confrontational. If you were

in the
exact same situation (away from the car from 15 minutes), then I'd
just say, "You go ahead and check the property. I prefer to wait

outside,
as I'm uncomfortable in leaving a child alone in an open car for so

long."
Cite news stories or something, if needed, to explain your

In such a case, you aren't telling what the other parent to do,

but you
are accomplishing the necessary task (keeping an eye on the child)

yourself.
So all is well. And the parent doesn't need a lecture anyway, as

that's
usually a waste of time. Adults, like their kids, learn better by

example.

As for the other posts, I agree with the one minute standard as

making
sense. I wouldn't wake a child to run inside the bakery to grab a

loaf
of bread, or go up to the counter to pay for my gas. In both cases,
I can see the car pretty much at all times.

P.

I have a flexible minute standard. If it's in my own driveway (where
we live, inconspicuous carjarkers are vanishingly unlikely) and the
temperature is temperate, I might leave him napping long enough to run
inside and get a drink or quickly use the bathroom, which might be
longer than a literal minute. I've left him in the car to cross the
few feet from the curb to the video drop off, but I always take the
keys out so the car's not an easy carjacking target. If the
temperature isn't comfortable enough to be able to remove the keys, I
don't leave him; I wait until he wakes up to do the errand or whatever.
I actually shy away from anything where I have to pay because lines
are so unpredictable, but I might get more flexible about this as he
gets older.

Twenty minutes is way too long. Even if the temperature is fine, there
are no conceivable carjackers, and the car has been left so it is safe
as houses, a small child waking up alone in a car would probably be
confused and scared.

Beth

  #17  
Old February 28th 05, 10:51 PM
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Hillary Israeli wrote:
In ,
nimue wrote:

*I was recently in Tucson with a friend of mine and we went to check
on a
*rental property she owns. Her 2 year old was in the car seat,
napping, and
*my friend left her there when we went to check the house. The
windows were

http://www.azcapa.org/capa/pressmain4.html - this explains some
reasons
why it is stupid to leave kids in the car alone

http://nrc.uchsc.edu/STATES/AZ/az_3.htm - this one states that it is
illegal for a family care provider to leave a child unattended in a
vehicle

i can't find any site containing any rules regarding parents leaving
their own kids in the car specifically, but I imagine this would fall
into the child endangerment statutes...


I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this information. I am dreading
this talk with my friend -- I expect it will happen tomorrow or Wednesday --
and it will be great to have this information to back up what I have to say.
Thank you.

--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French


  #18  
Old February 28th 05, 10:52 PM
nimue
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Stephanie Stowe wrote:
"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
om...

"toypup" wrote in message
om...

"Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message
u...
Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then
that
even)

I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was
unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in
the back
seat and the thief didn't know it.


Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent
was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away.
From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the
entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not
saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks
fear mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones,
like
a child overheating in a parked car.



The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the
kids in the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not
so much the likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?*
As I said to my DH, who just paled upon thinking about it, the
consequences are so horrifyingly small that a vanishingly small
chance is just not small enough.


THAT is good parenting. In fact, THAT is a good way to think in general.
This is why my friend gets into trouble so often. She just doesn't think of
the worst possible consequences. She just thinks the world is a much safer
place than I do.

I am with you on making things seem what they are not. I do not see
the value in it. But even if temperature is not a problem, I still
would not leave my kids.


--
nimue

"If I had created reality television I would have had a much greater
influence, but then I would have had to KILL MYSELF." Joss Whedon

"There are two types of women -- those who like chocolate and complete
bitches." Dawn French


  #19  
Old February 28th 05, 11:08 PM
Nan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 16:17:16 -0500, "Stephanie Stowe"
scribbled:



The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the kids in
the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not so much the
likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?* As I said to my DH,
who just paled upon thinking about it, the consequences are so horrifyingly
small that a vanishingly small chance is just not small enough.


This is my reasoning, as well. I won't debate the "what ifs" and
percentages of likelihoods with anyone here, but I don't leave mine in
the car for any reason other than I'd stated for opening the door of
our house and dropping my purse or groceries inside.
It's just not a risk (no matter how minute) I wish to take.

If my dd2 is asleep, I just don't stop for bread or a newspaper or
whatever. It's not important enough to me, to leave her in the car.
I always pay at the pump if the kids are with me, too.

Nan
  #20  
Old February 28th 05, 11:15 PM
Cathy Kearns
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Stephanie Stowe" wrote in message
...

"Cathy Kearns" wrote in message
om...

"toypup" wrote in message
om...

"Billy bob" billybob@bobshome wrote in message
u...
Its takes one minute for someone to take your child. (yup less then
that
even)

I think there are a lot of situations reported where the child was
unintentionally taken by a car thief. You know, the child was in the
back
seat and the thief didn't know it.


Define "a lot". And what percentage are car jackings (where a parent
was in the car or standing by the car) versus parents wandering away.
From what I've heard on the news, I'd guess one or two a year in the
entire US, and I'd say most of those are car jackings. Note, I'm not
saying you should leave children in cars, I'm just tired of folks fear
mongering about imagined dangers, instead of the obvious ones, like
a child overheating in a parked car.



The car theft thing is on my mind as part of why I do not leave the kids

in
the car, as if I needed too many reasons. For me, it is not so much the
likelihood, which is pathetically small. But *what if?* As I said to my

DH,
who just paled upon thinking about it, the consequences are so

horrifyingly
small that a vanishingly small chance is just not small enough.


That's a good reason for not leaving your child. You acknowledge that it's
vanishingly small, but not small enough. I can certainly see that.

I am with you on making things seem what they are not. I do not see the
value in it. But even if temperature is not a problem, I still would not
leave my kids.


I'm just against the argument of not leaving your kids because "there are
a lot of situation reported where the child was unintentionally taken..."
It's too easy to disprove, there aren't "a lot", so it's not persuasive.




 




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