If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below. |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#51
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
Nan wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:24:03 -0400, Ericka Kammerer wrote: toypup wrote: It just occurs to me that if it can be traumatic for a grown man, it can be traumatic to a young child who doesn't quite comprehend everything that is going on. Yes, it could be that it is not a traumatic but a very enriching experience; but if it is a traumatic experience, that experience cannot be erased. But it's very rare that the situation flips instantaneously from fine to traumatic. There's usually plenty of warning for the responsible adult to take the child off somewhere else. Also, people self-select into this situation. The parent of a child likely to struggle with a normal birth isn't likely to look into this option. I'm not toypup and I could be wrong, but I'm reading her post to say that even a "normal" birth can be a traumatic experience for the child. In my situation I knew E was pretty sensitive so we decided not to include her. To this day she still says she has no intention of ever having a baby and she didn't see the birth. Although she knew what happened to me a week later when my wound eviscerated and she's afraid of that. My point was that a child was only likely to be traumatized by a normal birth if there was inadequate planning/preparation (something under the parents' control) or if the mother or child was uncomfortable with it (typically ascertained in advance, and easily dealt with in the moment via the assigned adult caretaker removing the child if things start getting uncomfortable, which they would long before they reached the traumatic stage). Again, I wasn't arguing that everyone should choose this option or that it's a good option for every mother or every child. I'm arguing that it's not inappropriate in all cases (as some would have it). Best wishes, Ericka |
#52
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Mar 25, 9:53*am, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
Nan wrote: On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:24:03 -0400, Ericka Kammerer wrote: toypup wrote: *It just occurs to me that if it can be traumatic for a grown man, it can be traumatic to a young child who doesn't quite comprehend everything that is going on. *Yes, it could be that it is not a traumatic but a very enriching experience; but if it is a traumatic experience, that experience cannot be erased. * * * *But it's very rare that the situation flips instantaneously from fine to traumatic. *There's usually plenty of warning for the responsible adult to take the child off somewhere else. *Also, people self-select into this situation. *The parent of a child likely to struggle with a normal birth isn't likely to look into this option. I'm not toypup and I could be wrong, but I'm reading her post to say that even a "normal" birth can be a traumatic experience for the child. *In my situation I knew E was pretty sensitive so we decided not to include her. *To this day she still says she has no intention of ever having a baby and she didn't see the birth. *Although she knew what happened to me a week later when my wound eviscerated and she's afraid of that. * * * * My point was that a child was only likely to be traumatized by a normal birth if there was inadequate planning/preparation (something under the parents' control) or if the mother or child was uncomfortable with it (typically ascertained in advance, and easily dealt with in the moment via the assigned adult caretaker removing the child if things start getting uncomfortable, which they would long before they reached the traumatic stage). * * * * Again, I wasn't arguing that everyone should choose this option or that it's a good option for every mother or every child. I'm arguing that it's not inappropriate in all cases (as some would have it). Agreed. It's probably not a good option for most families. Many adults are very uneasy themselves about birth, and particularly about the accompanying blood and pain. The child would pick up on that unease and it wouldn't go well. Many children are too sensitive, or too needy, or too whatever for their presence to even be discussed as an option. But it's all about the right family, the right kid, and the right presentation and preparation. I presented to the Bug in a matter of fact way that there would probably be blood, but it's extra for the baby that I won't need anymore. I don't think she sees blood as something inherently scary. I might be hooting and hollering (though in the end I did more grunting) but that's OK too, as it's a lot of hard work that can hurt but in a different way than most owies. Had she reacted to any of this news with any apprehension I would have cut things off right there. But she didn't. And I would have had complete confidence in my mom to get her out and smooth things over if she started to react badly. It's amazing what little kids can understand and accept if it's presented at their level without giving them a lot of emotional overtones. Her understanding of why Little Dude has to stay at the hospital is every bit as medically accurate as an adult's, it's just expressed in the language of a 4 year old. I'll never know how she would have handled it if she were actually there, and in the end I liked having it be just me and DH, but I really don't worry that she would have been traumatized. Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel and the Bug, four and a half and three quarters and Little Dude, 3/19/08 |
#53
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
Akuvikate wrote:
Agreed. It's probably not a good option for most families. Many adults are very uneasy themselves about birth, and particularly about the accompanying blood and pain. The child would pick up on that unease and it wouldn't go well. Totally agree. In fact, I think that's the biggest factor. Kids are so very sensitive to their parents' emotions! If the mother and father are calm and comfortable (emotionally), the child is very likely to cope very well even with the effort involved. If the parents are uncomfortable, it almost doesn't matter the objective circumstances because the kids will be traumatized by picking up on the parents' discomfort with the situation. Now, I'd say that as a society we generally have such weird notions about birth that there are a whole lot of folks who would find it a very uphill struggle to be comfortable enough with birth to make it a good place for their children. That's ok--I doubt many of those folks are even asking themselves whether they should have their kids at the birth ;-) Best wishes, Ericka |
#54
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
"Nan" wrote in message ... On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:24:03 -0400, Ericka Kammerer wrote: toypup wrote: It just occurs to me that if it can be traumatic for a grown man, it can be traumatic to a young child who doesn't quite comprehend everything that is going on. Yes, it could be that it is not a traumatic but a very enriching experience; but if it is a traumatic experience, that experience cannot be erased. But it's very rare that the situation flips instantaneously from fine to traumatic. There's usually plenty of warning for the responsible adult to take the child off somewhere else. Also, people self-select into this situation. The parent of a child likely to struggle with a normal birth isn't likely to look into this option. I'm not toypup and I could be wrong, but I'm reading her post to say that even a "normal" birth can be a traumatic experience for the child. In my situation I knew E was pretty sensitive so we decided not to include her. To this day she still says she has no intention of ever having a baby and she didn't see the birth. Although she knew what happened to me a week later when my wound eviscerated and she's afraid of that. Yes. That's what I meant. |
#55
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
|
#56
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
"Michelle J. Haines" wrote in
: wrote: I'm pretty sure your grandfather wasn't in the delivery room when your parent was born and I am sure he had a great and healthy marriage. That an interesting set of assumptions there. My grandfather was not in the delivery room when my mother was born. He also left my grandmother and mother when my mom was 18 months old. are you related to me? that's what my grandfather did too... took *his* mother & sister and went off to the west coast, leaving my grandmother & 18 month old mother in PA. lee yeah, it was the Depression, but... -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
#57
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Mar 24, 1:57 pm, Ericka Kammerer wrote:
You can't guarantee that there won't be anything scary, but then again, you can't guarantee that at any point in time. There's always the possibility of your kids witnessing a miscarriage or a premature precipitate birth or goodness knows what else, unless you send them away as soon as you know you're pregnant. And what occured to me later -- I'm so glad DH and the Bug had gone to get lunch when Little Dude had his blue spell, as I think it would have been far more traumatic for both of them than it was for me. I doubt anyone would find it inappropriate to have the sibling visit the hospital several hours after the baby was born. But in this case seeing her blue floppy baby brother thrown into the bassinet and rushed off by a nurse with a whole bunch of adults freaking out (none of whom could have made tending to her their top priority) would have likely been harder on her than being at the birth. So indeed, no guarantees in life. Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel and the Bug, four and a half and three quarters and Little Dude, 3/19/08 (and finally home, doing great!) |
#58
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
Akuvikate wrote:
And what occured to me later -- I'm so glad DH and the Bug had gone to get lunch when Little Dude had his blue spell, as I think it would have been far more traumatic for both of them than it was for me. I doubt anyone would find it inappropriate to have the sibling visit the hospital several hours after the baby was born. But in this case seeing her blue floppy baby brother thrown into the bassinet and rushed off by a nurse with a whole bunch of adults freaking out (none of whom could have made tending to her their top priority) would have likely been harder on her than being at the birth. So indeed, no guarantees in life. Yeah, it would be great to be able to protect children from anything ever happening like this, but there's just no way to guarantee it short of refusing to allow them to experience life. Our first midwives had a saying that you couldn't make birth safer than life, and I think it's so very true. Of course we all take sensible precautions and do our best to minimize potential trauma, but when that's not enough, thank goodness that kids are resilient and generally take their cues from (hopefully fairly calm) parents. Best wishes, Ericka |
#59
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Mar 24, 9:09 am, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
wrote: [...] So yes, a traditional marriage of the "50's" where a woman is not selfish and is supportive of her husband is much better than a modern marriage with a high divorce rate. [...] The question is, though - better for whom? For the family. As I understand it, the traditional marriages to which you refer have two salient features: 1. One partner gives up their career, or their chance at having a career, in order to take care of all the cleaning, cooking, and childcare needs of the couple. Ideally, one person should stay home with the children. 2. The decision as to which partner does this is made not on the basis of ability or desire but on the basis of gender. With modern technology, either parent can now stay home with the child. Now, I can see why this would be better for most men. It's pretty self-evident that having someone in your life who'll do all your housework, cook all your meals, and sort out all your childcare issues, all totally reliably and for minimal cost, is an improvement over not having said someone. I can also see how it would be better for some women - if bringing up your children and maintaining a household is what you want to do with the rest of your life, then obviously the best thing for you is to be able to do it. Again, it is because of modern technology that women can and want to go out and work. Even today, the hardest and physically demanding jobs are still held by men. However, lots of women did, and do, want careers either after or instead of bringing up children. In addition, some men rather like the idea of staying at home with children full time for at least some years. For people who feel that way, traditional marriages really aren't better. I don't see how having two parents play a certain role defies a traditional marriage. The problem with one-size-fits-all solutions is that generally they don't. Generally they do. It's the feminist doctrine that perverts and attacks the marriage model. All the best, Sarah Regards... |
#60
|
|||
|
|||
Preparing sibling for birth process?
On Mar 30, 11:10*am, "Michelle J. Haines" wrote:
wrote: I'm pretty sure your grandfather wasn't in the delivery room when your parent was born and I am sure he had a great and healthy marriage. That an interesting set of assumptions there. *My grandfather was not in the delivery room when my mother was born. *He also left my grandmother and mother when my mom was 18 months old. Michelle Flutist The actions of your grandfather did not fit the norm of society of that time. Men were responsible for their families. Regards... |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Sibling rivalry | Sue | General | 116 | March 10th 08 04:16 PM |
Preparing a sibling for new baby - any thoughts? | Cathy | Pregnancy | 15 | October 19th 04 01:22 AM |
how long was sibling w/caregiver during birth? | Karen | Pregnancy | 11 | March 18th 04 02:56 PM |
AP and new sibling | Lisa Besko | Breastfeeding | 14 | August 19th 03 06:01 PM |
Kiwi chiros and the birth process | Todd Gastaldo | Pregnancy | 0 | August 8th 03 12:46 PM |