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#31
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Anne Rogers wrote:
I have a suspicion with the speech therapy you and maybe the therapist too, expected too much. Alternatively, or in addition, if the kid walked in after all sorts of talk and preparation about how it was VERY IMPORTANT for him to participate and do what he's supposed to in the evaluation, he might have been set up to be oppositional. Some kids have a weird kind of perfectionism where as soon as they figure out something is a big deal to their parents, they decide that they can't afford to "fail" at it. So, they figure dealing with the consequences and making you angry are better than disappointing you by failing at the VERY IMPORTANT task. It's sort of a kid's version of the best defense is a good offense. If this is part of what's going on, escalating consequences are going to make things much worse, not better. You have to downplay the event ahead of time, and believe me, these kids are extremely sensitive to your signals. You don't have to tell them in so many words that something is important. They'll figure it out from body language, from how and when you bring up the subject, they'll listen in to your talking on the phone or to friends, they'll clue in based on how you dress (or how you dress them) for the appointment, or any number of little clues. Also, this is something you want to get an understanding of early, because it can *really* create issues in school. These are the kids who'd rather sandbag and lower expectations than perform to their ability level. They'd rather procrastinate and lie about the test so that they don't study for it than study hard and fail to achieve a top score. They'll even do assignments and fail to turn them in. You have to find a way to establish a level of trust between the two of you that permits failure or they will fight tooth and nail. You have to teach them some coping skills to deal with the anxiety they feel about possibly "failing." Best wishes, Ericka |
#32
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Feb 19, 11:39*am, "Stephanie" wrote:
My son is NOT compliant. FAR from it. And if you teach him the how, why, what of behavior, you wind up with someone whose behavior does not need to be maintained with punishment but a person with genuine empathy and caring.. Children need parents to guide them because they know less about the world and are less able to reason. Often, they may only understand the reasons for their parents' rules many years later. Good habits precede moral reasoning. Our 2yo brushes his teeth because we tell him to or because he sees his brother doing so, not because he wants to avoid cavities. You wind up with a person who is responsible on their own. Someone who can make good decisions on their own. Obviously not every time. But the notion that you are going to teach someone something with hitting has never made any sense to me. I *remember* what I was thinking when I got spanked. Not that what I did was wrong, but what was just done to me was wrong. Instead of learnign the right or wrong and why, I learned not to trust my parents and to hide from them. I was spanked fewer than ten times growing up, for reasons that I understood at the time, such as smoking a cigarette offered by an acquaintance. I don't hold these incidents against my parents, and I did not repeat the behaviors that provoked the punishments. |
#33
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 19, 11:39 am, "Stephanie" wrote: My son is NOT compliant. FAR from it. And if you teach him the how, why, what of behavior, you wind up with someone whose behavior does not need to be maintained with punishment but a person with genuine empathy and caring. Children need parents to guide them because they know less about the world and are less able to reason. Often, they may only understand the reasons for their parents' rules many years later. Good habits precede moral reasoning. Our 2yo brushes his teeth because we tell him to or because he sees his brother doing so, not because he wants to avoid cavities. This is true though it is not a very good reason to hit. You wind up with a person who is responsible on their own. Someone who can make good decisions on their own. Obviously not every time. But the notion that you are going to teach someone something with hitting has never made any sense to me. I *remember* what I was thinking when I got spanked. Not that what I did was wrong, but what was just done to me was wrong. Instead of learnign the right or wrong and why, I learned not to trust my parents and to hide from them. I was spanked fewer than ten times growing up, for reasons that I understood at the time, such as smoking a cigarette offered by an acquaintance. I don't hold these incidents against my parents, and I did not repeat the behaviors that provoked the punishments. I don't hold it against my parents either. They were doing what they thought was right. However, it did not have the intended result of educating me about the evil of my ways. I cannot see how hitting does anything but change the subject. |
#34
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
"Dom" wrote in message ... I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn, and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. One of my boys is challenging as well. You've gotten a lot of good replies. My thoughts are 1) Spanking won't work. As a matter of fact any physical touch at all amplifies the tantrum in my house. That is hard for me because my other son responds very well to a hand on the shoulder to get him moving in the right direction. He prefers it and gets crabby with all the verbal instruction so I'm always goofing up with the other one. 2) He will likely remain challenging, just in different ways, as he gets older. At least that is true in my case. He's almost 7yo. 3) Good parents have challenging kids. This is a good book for both that and to see your child in a more positive light (which is sometimes hard) http://www.amazon.com/Raising-Your-S...51109&sr= 8-1 I'm going to re-read it. 4) Are you a step dad? Why do I think that?? Anyway - if so that has an entire new set of issues to deal with unless you've been with him since he was a baby. Any plan you come up with must take that into account. 5) If you feel his behavior is really really on the outside scope of normal (does he have similar issues at school?) then talk to your doctor. My son is fine at school so I know his behavior is within normal limits. If he was having meltdowns and big issues in all environments with all people, I'd talk to his doc. 6) He might do better for evaluations if he goes in with the therapist on his own. I sent my son on his own but was able to watch through a 2-way mirror. good luck! -- Nikki, mama to Hunter 4/99 Luke 4/01 Brock 4/06 Ben 4/06 |
#35
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Wow!
Thanks for all the responses overnight. Yes I am his stepdad (or I will be). His own father is loving but is more concerned with being a friend than a parent, that is when he participates at all. We occaisonally use spanking as a punishment, but only if they are trying to impale each other with a broomstick-come lightsaber, or eyegouging etc. And this is only to shock them out of the situation so we can deliver a more appropriate punishment. I feel bad after spanking them, and I try to avoid it. I'm becominig quite good at reading the tone of an argument from another room, and generally know when to step in. We try to let the boys resolve thier own differences, and this is generally successful about 75% of the time. There are some differences that are beyond them just yet, but they are getting better. For severe tantrums, I've found the most effective management has been to carry him to his room and leave him there. After a few minutes he calms down, and will then come back out, at which point we try and talk to him about his feelings and behaviour. Trying to calm him or speaking to him before this gets no response. However I'm now keen to try some of the calming techniques discussed earlier. The breathing activities sound like lots of fun. Dominic. |
#36
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Feb 19, 11:35*am, "Stephanie" wrote:
Beliavsky wrote: You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/. I would ask myself, if my child were severly misbehaving... WHY? Children are not born with a desire to be jerks. You think like Rousseau. Another view of human nature is that children are born little savages that need to be civilized by their parents. Conservative Christians would talk of "original sin", but one can be an atheist and have a similar philosophy. |
#37
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 19, 11:35 am, "Stephanie" wrote: Beliavsky wrote: You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/. I would ask myself, if my child were severly misbehaving... WHY? Children are not born with a desire to be jerks. You think like Rousseau. Another view of human nature is that children are born little savages that need to be civilized by their parents. Conservative Christians would talk of "original sin", but one can be an atheist and have a similar philosophy. One would be wrong. |
#38
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
"Stephanie" wrote in
: Beliavsky wrote: On Feb 19, 11:35 am, "Stephanie" wrote: Beliavsky wrote: You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/. I would ask myself, if my child were severly misbehaving... WHY? Children are not born with a desire to be jerks. You think like Rousseau. Another view of human nature is that children are born little savages that need to be civilized by their parents. Conservative Christians would talk of "original sin", but one can be an atheist and have a similar philosophy. One would be wrong. one would have to have a severe disconnect from reality to even entertain the notion. just being around children should dispel that. besides, i thought "original sin" was a Catholic thing. lee sin is a social construct -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
#39
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:13:41 +0000 (UTC), enigma wrote:
"Stephanie" wrote in : Beliavsky wrote: On Feb 19, 11:35 am, "Stephanie" wrote: Beliavsky wrote: You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/. I would ask myself, if my child were severly misbehaving... WHY? Children are not born with a desire to be jerks. You think like Rousseau. Another view of human nature is that children are born little savages that need to be civilized by their parents. Conservative Christians would talk of "original sin", but one can be an atheist and have a similar philosophy. One would be wrong. one would have to have a severe disconnect from reality to even entertain the notion. just being around children should dispel that. besides, i thought "original sin" was a Catholic thing. lee sin is a social construct I think it's a ridiculous idea myself, but I know plenty of people who believe that. |
#40
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Feb 19, 4:27 pm, Beliavsky wrote:
Another view of human nature is that children are born little savages that need to be civilized by their parents. Conservative Christians would talk of "original sin", but one can be an atheist and have a similar philosophy. I know people who hold this view. A lot of them don't really enjoy parenting. Easy to see why. It doesn't strike me as a particularly civilized, or effective, to think of children as "other." In my experience, kids respond better when you treat them as people rather than alien beings or wild animals. It does take awhile for them to learn the specifics of living in a community with others, yes, but I've found kids generally want to please adults who take the time to engage them. Lori |
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