Why is is so surprising?

The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

What is so surprising is that they would kill their kids rather than escape
to freedom or work as freedom fighters against the fascist Democrat and
Republican politicians that oppress them.

"Yup" wrote in message
news.com...
The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

What is so surprising is that they would kill their kids rather than escape
to freedom or work as freedom fighters against the fascist Democrat and
Republican politicians that oppress them.

"Yup" wrote in message
news.com...
The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

What is so surprising is that they would kill their kids rather than escape
to freedom or work as freedom fighters against the fascist Democrat and
Republican politicians that oppress them.

"Yup" wrote in message
news.com...
The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

Yup wrote:

The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

I think you have to start by condemning this behavior, without any
reservations whatsoever. That must be the main point in any comments on
to these situations. Even if fathers are treated in a very unfair
manner (and they are in the U.S.), there can be no justification
whatsoever for fathers reacting in these ways.

Potentially violent fathers should not be given even the least shred of
justification.

Yup wrote:

The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

I think you have to start by condemning this behavior, without any
reservations whatsoever. That must be the main point in any comments on
to these situations. Even if fathers are treated in a very unfair
manner (and they are in the U.S.), there can be no justification
whatsoever for fathers reacting in these ways.

Potentially violent fathers should not be given even the least shred of
justification.

Yup wrote:

The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

I think you have to start by condemning this behavior, without any
reservations whatsoever. That must be the main point in any comments on
to these situations. Even if fathers are treated in a very unfair
manner (and they are in the U.S.), there can be no justification
whatsoever for fathers reacting in these ways.

Potentially violent fathers should not be given even the least shred of
justification.

"Kenneth S." wrote in message
...
Yup wrote:

The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

I think you have to start by condemning this behavior, without any
reservations whatsoever. That must be the main point in any comments on
to these situations. Even if fathers are treated in a very unfair
manner (and they are in the U.S.), there can be no justification
whatsoever for fathers reacting in these ways.

Potentially violent fathers should not be given even the least shred of
justification.

What is missing in this discussion is the lack of focus on the stimulus that
creates the response and I think that is what Yup was trying to show. There
are significant "stimuli" in the divorce, custody, CS areas to force some
fairly radical "responses" from men. Part of the feminist psycho-babble is
to always focus on the men's response and condemn men for their reactions.
That approach is the equivalent of psychologically disempowering men for
being normal. And, of course, it focuses attention away from what caused
the reaction in the first place.

In the Orlando case the father's "response" was way over the top. But any
normal male is not going to take what the system hands out without some sort
of reaction. Anger gets expressed on a lot of different levels. And to my
knowledge since the system is so one sided, the only way men have to protest
their disgust with how they are being treated is to "act up" in some manner.
Some withdraw from their children, some place their personal activities
above consistent visitation, some hold back CS, some quit their jobs, some
move away, some commit murder. For me there are different levels of
responses. I view all male responses to the system short of physical abuse
and murder to be acceptable outlets for the emotional anger that builds up
in men over their disgust with the "stimuli" they face.

Men have a right to be angry. And showing it is a normal response.
Protecting women from the accountability of being responsible for the
stimuli they use to push men around is not going to solve the bigger issues
of unfairness and bias in the system.

"Kenneth S." wrote in message
...
Yup wrote:

The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

I think you have to start by condemning this behavior, without any
reservations whatsoever. That must be the main point in any comments on
to these situations. Even if fathers are treated in a very unfair
manner (and they are in the U.S.), there can be no justification
whatsoever for fathers reacting in these ways.

Potentially violent fathers should not be given even the least shred of
justification.

What is missing in this discussion is the lack of focus on the stimulus that
creates the response and I think that is what Yup was trying to show. There
are significant "stimuli" in the divorce, custody, CS areas to force some
fairly radical "responses" from men. Part of the feminist psycho-babble is
to always focus on the men's response and condemn men for their reactions.
That approach is the equivalent of psychologically disempowering men for
being normal. And, of course, it focuses attention away from what caused
the reaction in the first place.

In the Orlando case the father's "response" was way over the top. But any
normal male is not going to take what the system hands out without some sort
of reaction. Anger gets expressed on a lot of different levels. And to my
knowledge since the system is so one sided, the only way men have to protest
their disgust with how they are being treated is to "act up" in some manner.
Some withdraw from their children, some place their personal activities
above consistent visitation, some hold back CS, some quit their jobs, some
move away, some commit murder. For me there are different levels of
responses. I view all male responses to the system short of physical abuse
and murder to be acceptable outlets for the emotional anger that builds up
in men over their disgust with the "stimuli" they face.

Men have a right to be angry. And showing it is a normal response.
Protecting women from the accountability of being responsible for the
stimuli they use to push men around is not going to solve the bigger issues
of unfairness and bias in the system.

"Kenneth S." wrote in message
...
Yup wrote:

The press is quick to jump on stories like the one about the dad that
killed his kids. Everyone shakes their heads and says what a shame it
was. Even pro-dads people agree that it's horrible and way over the
top.

Why is is so surprising that people would resort to this once in a
while? The way it's set up now, the NCP gets the following...

1. Reduction in status to slightly more than a babysitter. Any
decisions made only stay in effect until the children go back to the
CP.

2. Immediate financial ruin. Between the CS order, Lawyers, Health
insurance, Finding and maintaining a new home (often while still
paying on the first), a new vehicle, etc. it is often enough to force
the NCP into bankruptcy.

3. The threat that if anything goes wrong at work that you could very
easily find yourself going to jail. If you lose a job and can't pay
they can take away your driver's license, thus making any chance of
you finding a job next to impossible. And since you can't find the
job...lock up.

4. Having to endure way more in the way of unfair treatment on the
job. You can't afford to take the chance that you'll lose your job. So
now, not only does your ex hold the keys to your jail cell, so does
your employer.

5. Dealing with a vindictive ex-wife or GF that has the law on her
side in almost every matter.

6. In some cases the guy has been forced into fatherhood that he never
agreed to in the first place and is expected to immediately assume the
role of "loving daddy" complete with all the responsibility but none
of the rights.

OF COURSE some people will go off the deep end. The pressure is
immense and it's even worse when you have an ex that is pushing all
the right buttons to bring everything down on your head. A simple
"It's only for the kids" is all she has to say to justify anything she
does. The NCP is villified by the press as being a deadbeat as soon as
a payment is missed. I think it's amazing that this kind of thing
doesn't happen more often.

I think you have to start by condemning this behavior, without any
reservations whatsoever. That must be the main point in any comments on
to these situations. Even if fathers are treated in a very unfair
manner (and they are in the U.S.), there can be no justification
whatsoever for fathers reacting in these ways.

Potentially violent fathers should not be given even the least shred of
justification.

What is missing in this discussion is the lack of focus on the stimulus that
creates the response and I think that is what Yup was trying to show. There
are significant "stimuli" in the divorce, custody, CS areas to force some
fairly radical "responses" from men. Part of the feminist psycho-babble is
to always focus on the men's response and condemn men for their reactions.
That approach is the equivalent of psychologically disempowering men for
being normal. And, of course, it focuses attention away from what caused
the reaction in the first place.

In the Orlando case the father's "response" was way over the top. But any
normal male is not going to take what the system hands out without some sort
of reaction. Anger gets expressed on a lot of different levels. And to my
knowledge since the system is so one sided, the only way men have to protest
their disgust with how they are being treated is to "act up" in some manner.
Some withdraw from their children, some place their personal activities
above consistent visitation, some hold back CS, some quit their jobs, some
move away, some commit murder. For me there are different levels of
responses. I view all male responses to the system short of physical abuse
and murder to be acceptable outlets for the emotional anger that builds up
in men over their disgust with the "stimuli" they face.

Men have a right to be angry. And showing it is a normal response.
Protecting women from the accountability of being responsible for the
stimuli they use to push men around is not going to solve the bigger issues
of unfairness and bias in the system.