128 students suspended at Ind. school

"Nan" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:29:19 GMT, "toypup"
wrote:


"Nan" wrote in message
. ..
On 31 Aug 2006 06:37:35 -0700, wrote:
Fine. But in that case it's problem that has no solution. These kids
are doomed. Their parents can't afford school supplies and don't have
the ability to plan ahead to save for them. The entire family is too
proud to ask for help, so the school district or local charities cannot
provide the supplies. So the kid doesn't have supplies and fails, NOT
because he's marked tardy when he goes to his locker, but because he is
not able to complete the assignments without writing implements and
paper.

You sure love to stretch, don't you?

She's not strecthing. She is repeating what you said.

LOL, sure she is. I proclaimed the kids to be doomed. Learn to read.

Well, the rest of it is everything you said. If that is true what you say,
they are doomed.

"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"nimue" wrote in message
...
Jen wrote:
It looks to me more like she's defending herself, and getting a bit
frustrated along the way. Certainly at times she's been retaliating
as well, but she had been baited. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

Jen

That's how I see it, too.

That's not quite the way I see it. The way I see it, both toypup and
nimue have felt attacked, and both have felt the need to defend
themselves. I don't honestly think that third parties jumping in on both
sides is helping the matter. I really think they should both just
apologize and move on.

Thanks, Bizby. That has settled me down. After rereading my posts, I can
see how Nimue felt attacked in the beginning. What got me riled was the way
she came in with swords raised and her manner of address for some posters
and her use of "stupid" to describe posts (since it implies the poster was
not bright and is an attack on the poster). My arguments regarding the
topic stands. However, if Nimue felt attacked, I appologize.

If Nimue is reading this, I appologize. I do think you were striking below
the belt, in you latest posts and have been the bully lately. I think you
should own up to that.

"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"nimue" wrote in message
...
Jen wrote:
It looks to me more like she's defending herself, and getting a bit
frustrated along the way. Certainly at times she's been retaliating
as well, but she had been baited. Sorry, but that's how I see it.

Jen

That's how I see it, too.

That's not quite the way I see it. The way I see it, both toypup and
nimue have felt attacked, and both have felt the need to defend
themselves. I don't honestly think that third parties jumping in on both
sides is helping the matter. I really think they should both just
apologize and move on.

I'm sorry, but I've always been a believer that the people who stand by and
watch are just as bad as the bullies themselves. She was being bullied by a
few people and I felt she needed some support. It seems some people just
couldn't understand some of the things she was saying, so I've been trying
to make some of these things clear. But you're right, it's time to
apologize and move on.

I apologize if I've made things more difficult. You have different opinions
that's all.

Jen

Jen wrote:
"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"nimue" wrote in message
...
Jen wrote:
It looks to me more like she's defending herself, and getting a bit
frustrated along the way. Certainly at times she's been
retaliating as well, but she had been baited. Sorry, but that's
how I see it.

Jen

That's how I see it, too.

That's not quite the way I see it. The way I see it, both toypup and
nimue have felt attacked, and both have felt the need to defend
themselves. I don't honestly think that third parties jumping in on
both sides is helping the matter. I really think they should both
just apologize and move on.

I'm sorry, but I've always been a believer that the people who stand
by and watch are just as bad as the bullies themselves.

I completely agree and I do the same. You're a good person and you are
teaching your kids a good lesson.

She was
being bullied by a few people and I felt she needed some support.

I did and I appreciate it. It restored my faith in humanity. I don't think
I've ever received that kind of support in all my years on usenet. There
are a lot of bullies on usenet, and I am also the type to jump in and
wrassle with him if I see them picking on anyone.

It
seems some people just couldn't understand some of the things she was
saying, so I've been trying to make some of these things clear.

I think people didn't want to.

But
you're right, it's time to apologize and move on.

Well, I apologize to anyone I hurt.

I apologize if I've made things more difficult.

You haven't made things more difficult for me. You've made them better.
You stopped me from getting bullied -- toypup really let up on the bullying
because you called her on it. I appreciate that.

You have different
opinions that's all.

Jen

--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

toypup wrote:
"bizby40" wrote in message
...

"nimue" wrote in message
...
Jen wrote:
It looks to me more like she's defending herself, and getting a bit
frustrated along the way. Certainly at times she's been
retaliating as well, but she had been baited. Sorry, but that's
how I see it.

Jen

That's how I see it, too.

That's not quite the way I see it. The way I see it, both toypup and
nimue have felt attacked, and both have felt the need to defend
themselves. I don't honestly think that third parties jumping in on
both sides is helping the matter. I really think they should both
just apologize and move on.

Thanks, Bizby. That has settled me down. After rereading my posts,
I can see how Nimue felt attacked in the beginning.


Well, that's good. Would you have bothered to reread them if I had just
asked you. Would you have bothered if no one came to my defense? I don't
mean to antagonize you; I just want you to think about it. I know I can be
a jerk, so if someone tells me I am, I really try to take a good look at my
behavior.

What got me
riled was the way she came in with swords raised and her manner of
address for some posters and her use of "stupid" to describe posts
(since it implies the poster was not bright and is an attack on the
poster). My arguments regarding the topic stands. However, if Nimue
felt attacked, I appologize.

I do wish you had written "I am sorry for attacking nimue." However, you
tried. I accept your apology and I am sorry for how I attacked you. I know
I was a jerk -- I get that way when I am attacked; many of us do. We both
did here, I guess.


If Nimue is reading this, I appologize. I do think you were striking
below the belt, in you latest posts and have been the bully lately.
I think you should own up to that.

Oh, that's not a good apology. It's really not. It focuses on me and what
I have done wrong. It makes excuses for you and puts the blame on me. I
know my kids would see right through that kind of "apology" and it would
make them angry. C'mon. I admit I was a jerk to you. I am sorry. I wish
I could be a better person. That's a better apology and I mean it.


--
nimue

"As an unwavering Republican, I have quite naturally burned more books
than I have read." Betty Bowers

English is our friend. We don't have to fight it.
Oprah

Nan wrote:
On 31 Aug 2006 06:37:35 -0700, wrote:

Like I said, you've never been that poor. It's not about being so
proud you'd let your child flunk rather than ask. This issue isn't as
cut and dried as some of you would like to think it is.

Fine. But in that case it's problem that has no solution. These kids
are doomed. Their parents can't afford school supplies and don't have
the ability to plan ahead to save for them. The entire family is too
proud to ask for help, so the school district or local charities cannot
provide the supplies. So the kid doesn't have supplies and fails, NOT
because he's marked tardy when he goes to his locker, but because he is
not able to complete the assignments without writing implements and
paper.

You sure love to stretch, don't you?

How is this a stretch? You are asserting that there are students who
can't afford pencils and notebooks, and their parents either don't care
enough to notice ask for help, or are too proud to ask for or accept
it. So, it's a reasonable question, what can be done for those
students? It is not possible to complete school in our society without
pencils and paper. So how do we keep these students from failing?

Someone else suggested asking the counselor about it, but in most
schools (esp. in poor districts) the counselors each have to deal with
the needs of hundreds, if not thousands of students. In a grade school
there may be only one counselor for the entire school. So the
counselor isn't any more likely to know the family's situation than the
teacher. (Probably less.)

Naomi

Nan wrote:
On 31 Aug 2006 08:45:50 -0700, wrote:


Barbara wrote:


Its difficult to comprehend the extent of poverty in even so-called
first-world countries. I recall a friend working on a legal aid case.
The client lived in an SRO (at least he wasn't homeless) with no access
to a kitchen or means to cook. He testified that he ate lunch most
days and Dunkin Donuts or another inexpensive fast food place. The ALJ
kept asking where he ate his other meals. The guy just didn't get it.
There WERE no other meals. That's all he could afford each day -- a
cheap junkie lunch. That guy didn't have kids, but if he had, there
might not have BEEN an extra dime each week.

But if he had kids there would have been food stamps. The kids would
have gotten free breakfasts and lunches at school.

IF he was aware of such programs, wasn't illiterate and therefore able
to read forms that came home with the child, and was able to even
provide the documentation necessary to receive public assistance.

He was obviously able to apply to legal aid.


You're not understanding that there is an entire class of families
that fall through the cracks. They're the Working Poor. They make
too much money to receive assistance programs, but can't afford much
beyond basic necessities. What would you have them do? Quit their
jobs to receive help?


A guy living in an SRO and eating one meal a day at Dunkin' Donuts is
almost certainly NOT 'the working poor.'

There happen to have sitting here by the computer the papers sent home
with SHaina at the beginning of the year about applying for free school
lunches and textbooks. THe income cut off for a family of 3 is $2,560
a month. That's over $30,000 a year. In this city, you can rent a 2
bedroom apartment for under $600 a month. (Oh, and no special
documentation is required. You just fill out the form and send it in.)

Again, there are certainly families in difficult straits. They need to
ask for help. If they can't read the forms, they contact the school
and ask for help with the forms. (Oh, and the form has a spanish and
french translation on the bottom telling the reader to call for
assistance if needed.)

Naomi

"Jen" wrote in message
...
I'm sorry, but I've always been a believer that the people who stand
by and watch are just as bad as the bullies themselves.

lol -- I've been called a netnanny and a netcop before for the same
reason. I too can't stand to see someone being bullied. I just
generally think of bullying as being several people ganging up on one,
or one person being belligerent while the other is cowering. This
situation seemed much more like a pretty even match between two
people. And in that situation, I (obviously don't mind my own
business like I should) try to play peacemaker.

Bizby

In article ,
"Jen" wrote:

I guess if a whole heap of students *opted out*. There would hardly be any
point. Maybe if it was made clear that it would *gradually* be brought in
might help. I know I wouldn't be happy if all of a sudden our uniforms were
changed. I would like to be able to wait until she needed new clothes.

That is usually the way it's done. After I had left, my high school had to
change its vile sludge-green uniform, as nobody was making that dye any more.
They brought in a red uniform. For quite a while, the school had both colours
in the playground, as people only changed to the new colour when they went up
a size.

FTR, NSW public schools have uniforms, the wearing of which is strongly
encouraged. For most of us the advantages of uniform are such that we are
happy to provide it. Uniforms are not, however, compulsory. I still remember
a couple of court cases in the 1980s that settled this one -- invariably, on
one side was a parent who thought that uniforms were An Insult to the
Individuality of Widdle Pwecious.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 02:08:26 GMT, "toypup"
wrote:


"Nan" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 01:29:19 GMT, "toypup"
wrote:


"Nan" wrote in message
...
On 31 Aug 2006 06:37:35 -0700, wrote:
Fine. But in that case it's problem that has no solution. These kids
are doomed. Their parents can't afford school supplies and don't have
the ability to plan ahead to save for them. The entire family is too
proud to ask for help, so the school district or local charities cannot
provide the supplies. So the kid doesn't have supplies and fails, NOT
because he's marked tardy when he goes to his locker, but because he is
not able to complete the assignments without writing implements and
paper.

You sure love to stretch, don't you?

She's not strecthing. She is repeating what you said.

LOL, sure she is. I proclaimed the kids to be doomed. Learn to read.

Well, the rest of it is everything you said. If that is true what you say,
they are doomed.

Not at all. You're needing to jump to a concrete conclusion. Someone
in this thread (I can't remember who, exactly) mentioned that you when
you locate a problem you attempt to fix it. But, it's not cut and
dried as some of you have been saying.

Nan