Notice the Doan....

beccafromlalaland wrote:
I am monumentaly inconsistent?

I wonder if you are in some kind of threatening danger.

It turns out your posting host isn't who you claim it is. Or that you
pretended changed your post's headers to conceal your posting history
for "security."

Turns out you are using a German proxie.

Or rather, your hosting service is.

"212.227.108.236
address: Schlund + Partner AG
address: Brauerstrasse 48
address: D-76135 Karlsruhe
address: Germany"

Having used proxies myself, and for the reasons of security that were in
response to very real threats I recieved, inluding face to face
confrontations, I can't help but worry for you.

A German proxie...hmmm...interesting.

Surely "lalaland" is not Berlin?

Your originating IP, of course, is, wouldn't you know it, a California
based company, SBC Internet Services, with an LA address too.

Been with them long? Have you?

Such a coincidence by the way, that Doan posts from an LA area IP, UC
servers in fact.

Could it be, or would it be a security breach, if you told me you
coincidentally are posting from the LA area, often referred to as
"lalaland?"

Your child must be keeping you terrible busy these days. Let me see now,
you have posted once to two other groups, which you never posted to
again. You did of course post in french to a poster that asked a simple
question...really too simple... That was a master stroke.

Now let me see, who in this ng would be the most likely, besides you of
course, to write in french. I'm reasonably sure LaVonne (who I'm pretty
sure does) isn't operating a sock, but I'll ask.

Let me see now......where have I heard french spoken commonly before in
my travels, outside of france? Hmmmm......

I would not want to put you at any risk. So don't answer if you think it
might. We'll just assume you are German and let it go at that.

You and Doan should get better aquainted, as he too speaks and writes
french. Not uncommon in his family, I'm sure, being educated and all and
likely some members of it even being educated in France.

"doan
Aug 6 2001, 11:09 am show options
Newsgroups: alt.parenting.spanking
From: doan - Find messages by this author
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 12:09:45 -0700
Local: Mon, Aug 6 2001 11:09 am
Subject: Cinq Etudes: Liaison entre la Fesse et les Suites Nuisibles
Reply to Author | Forward | Print | View Thread | Show original | Report
Abuse

On 6 Aug 2001, observer wrote:

"What is the word for 'fig-leaf' in French?"

Is it "figue-feuille" or is it "Catherine"? Perhaps "Dorothy"? Gee,
so many
choices. So many words fit.

Oh, oui! La "figue-feuille"! C'st magnifique, n'est pas? ;-)

Doan "


Any futher coincidences you'd like to explore with me, "beccafromlalaland?"


Kane

--
Isn't it interesting that the more honest an author appears to be,
the more like ourselves we think him. And the less so, how very
alien he doth appear? Kane 2006

There is no such thing, of course, as the freudian slip....R R R R
.............................................
Doan
Jan 24, 3:26 am hide options
Newsgroups: alt.parenting.spanking
From: Doan - Find messages by this author
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 03:26:33 -0800
Local: Tues, Jan 24 2006 3:26 am
Subject: Abreaction - and why spankers are misled.
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show
original | Report Abuse

- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
On Tue, 24 Jan 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:

Doan Wrote:
I didn't call you "becca". Your signature is:
beccafromlalaland

Perhaps, it's a term of endearment! ;-)

Doan

Confused. You put my name in quotations for a reason, but whatever
your reasoning is. I kindly request that you stop. putting it in
quotations makes it easier to be searched out on the web, I'd rather
not have "crazies" targeting me for spam or whatnot. Thank you.

Your request is heard and I will respect your wish. I've always
call me by what you provided, and that is: beccafromlalaland.

Doan
............................................

Originally Posted by 0:-

How can you not be interested in such a monumental and momentous piece
of material, the first of it's kind, to refute the claims of spankers.
(There are other's since, but this was seminal to the work that
followed.)

Embry's work, and the resultant programs were a major force in social
work with family and child as the focus.

I have a thesis on my desk, from a NewZealand master's candidate that
is something other's must have seen and quoted, that explores Embry's
study.

I have, over the years, collected manuals and materials for the program
to reduce street entries by instruction vs CP.

I've sat in and I've myself taught classes with Embry's core concepts
the foundation for 'behavior management.'

This is not some passing little opinion piece. It's a solid piece of
research so good that out of it very likely came much of his motivation
and material for his peaceful social interactions work that followed.
He's highly respected academically and by communities and organizations
that have seen and used his work.

But then, your interest, or lack thereof, would indicate one of two
things.

0:-

My Reasons for My lack of interest.

1. I do not believe that this is as "monumental and momentous piece
of material" as you claim it to be. Evidenced by the fact that it is only in exhistance in FOUR 4 libraries worldwide. California State Univ. Sacramento, University of California, Northwestern Univ. and the University of Maryland. If it was such an important study one would think it would be more widely dispersed.

2. The study is as old as I am. 1981...25yrs old! I KNOW there are more recent more relevant studies available, yet you cling to this one...perhaps because you know it is difficult to obtain a copy?

When you find a study that is relavent to TODAY I would happily study it and debate it with you. Until then get off your hobby horse, and learn to play with the grown ups who actually discuss CURRENT research, CURRENT parenting challenges, and CURRENT solutions to their parenting challenges.


~b

Originally Posted by 0:-

beccafromlalaland wrote:
I am monumentaly inconsistent?

I wonder if you are in some kind of threatening danger.

It turns out your posting host isn't who you claim it is. Or that you
pretended changed your post's headers to conceal your posting history
for "security."

Turns out you are using a German proxie.

Or rather, your hosting service is.

"212.227.108.236
address: Schlund + Partner AG
address: Brauerstrasse 48
address: D-76135 Karlsruhe
address: Germany"

Having used proxies myself, and for the reasons of security that were in
response to very real threats I recieved, inluding face to face
confrontations, I can't help but worry for you.

A German proxie...hmmm...interesting.

Surely "lalaland" is not Berlin?

Your originating IP, of course, is, wouldn't you know it, a California
based company, SBC Internet Services, with an LA address too.

Been with them long? Have you?

Such a coincidence by the way, that Doan posts from an LA area IP, UC
servers in fact.

Could it be, or would it be a security breach, if you told me you
coincidentally are posting from the LA area, often referred to as
"lalaland?"

I am not in germany...never even been there. Funny about the LA thing...I looked up my IP address it originates from El Paso TX. Which really isn't suprising considering that is where my bill is sent from every month. It wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to consider for a moment that a CO. as large as SBC would have regional offices. Heck when I call for Tech support I'm routed to Pheonix, when I call for billing inquiries I'm routed to India (I think...or they just have a lot of indian people working for them) And "lalaland" refers to my state of mind, not my location.

Originally Posted by 0:-

Your child must be keeping you terrible busy these days. Let me see now,
you have posted once to two other groups, which you never posted to
again. You did of course post in french to a poster that asked a simple
question...really too simple... That was a master stroke.

Now let me see, who in this ng would be the most likely, besides you of
course, to write in french. I'm reasonably sure LaVonne (who I'm pretty
sure does) isn't operating a sock, but I'll ask.

Let me see now......where have I heard french spoken commonly before in
my travels, outside of france? Hmmmm......

I would not want to put you at any risk. So don't answer if you think it
might. We'll just assume you are German and let it go at that.

You and Doan should get better aquainted, as he too speaks and writes
french. Not uncommon in his family, I'm sure, being educated and all and
likely some members of it even being educated in France.

My children do keep me busy. They are both high needs kids.

Why are you holding on to this French thing? Are you aware that in American Highschools, one can take French, Spanish, and German language classes? In my College one could take French, Spanish, and a tele-class for Japanese. AND Every 2-3yrs RUSSIAN would be offered. Now if I had posted in Russian that would have been ODD. French is a very commen language for one to learn. Perhaps not as commen as Spanish, but still commen enough.

vous êtes enfant

beccafromlalaland wrote:
0:- Wrote:


How can you not be interested in such a monumental and momentous piece
of material, the first of it's kind, to refute the claims of spankers.
(There are other's since, but this was seminal to the work that
followed.)

Embry's work, and the resultant programs were a major force in social
work with family and child as the focus.

I have a thesis on my desk, from a NewZealand master's candidate that
is something other's must have seen and quoted, that explores Embry's
study.

I have, over the years, collected manuals and materials for the
program
to reduce street entries by instruction vs CP.

I've sat in and I've myself taught classes with Embry's core concepts
the foundation for 'behavior management.'

This is not some passing little opinion piece. It's a solid piece of
research so good that out of it very likely came much of his
motivation
and material for his peaceful social interactions work that followed.
He's highly respected academically and by communities and
organizations
that have seen and used his work.

But then, your interest, or lack thereof, would indicate one of two
things.

0:-

My Reasons for My lack of interest.

1. I do not believe that this is as "monumental and momentous piece
of material" as you claim it to be.

You've read it and can make an objective evaluation of it's value?

Do you usually have such strong beliefs without actually examining what
you believe or don't believe?

Evidenced by the fact that it is
only in exhistance in FOUR 4 libraries worldwide.

Really? And in what way is that evidence of it's value? I presume that
the seminal work on a subject may exist in few copies while other work
expanded on it. Embry's following work is not in just a few libraries.
It is widely destributed to many communities in the hands of many
people. I have a lot of it myself. The actual programs workbooks,
instructor guides, etc.

California State
Univ. Sacramento, University of California, Northwestern Univ. and the
University of Maryland. If it was such an important study one would
think it would be more widely dispersed.

Well, first of all, I do not believe that full copies of the report,
since Dennis Embry told me they aren't, are anywhere else but in his
files. Abstracts, yes, shelf copies, no.

And haven't you heard of interlibrary loan? It's no longer necessary or
economically viable to have thousands of locations when all can be
reached from one.

2. The study is as old as I am. 1981...25yrs old!

I can imagine there are many important studies on many subjects that old
and older. Some important one's on child development for instance.

The age of the report is not the relevant factor in research, but the
content and whether or not it's been refuted. No other studies on
"street entry reduction" are extant to my knowledge. If you know of any,
please tell me how I might find them. One does not reject a study
simply because it's old if there are no others to refer to.

I KNOW there are
more recent more relevant studies available,

Relevant to the subject of the study?

Not on reduction of street entry of preschool age children that I am
aware of.

Source please.

And how would you know they are more relevant if you have not read
Embry's report?

yet you cling to this
one...perhaps because you know it is difficult to obtain a copy?

I thought you just said they were available in four academic locations?
Hell, the nearest university library, and I have two I could stop in,
both of which I have on line priveleges to, could produce copies by
interlibrary loan if they are, as you claim, available. None can and
they tried.

And I only 'cling' because when I mentioned Embry's comments on street
entry reduction in a magazine, Doan challenged me to debate on it. I am
simply responding to his demands, with requests of my own.

I don't doubt, because Chris Dugan had brought the same thing up years
before, that Doan knew himself it was "impossible" to obtain. That's why
he challanged. I had mentioned to him I had considerable skill in
research, and I had obtained it. And had it.

He then challenged me to debate it. I offered to, provided since I know
him to be a liar, he would prove he had a copy of the report I had. He
refused. I won't debate into a vacume.

So here we sit. He'd love to have a copy, but more importantly, when he
found the abstract and it's bit of information, he knew damn well he did
NOT want that report discussed here.

Why is it you challenge me, someone that agrees with you on the issue of
non-spanking, but won't challenge him? He says HE had the study. Don't
you wish to discuss it with him?

When you find a study that is relavent to TODAY I would happily study
it and debate it with you.

How do you know it's not relevant to today?

Doubtless children still run into the street. You can be sure most
parents still spank for it. You can be sure also that some do not and
use methods like the one's Embry proved work.

And no one else has done a street entry reduction study, and parenting
trainers use his methods. In fact, after this length of time my bet is
the source has become obscured, and most do not know when they teach
that using "safe play" methods they are invoking Embry.

Until then get off your hobby horse, and
learn to play with the grown ups who actually discuss CURRENT research,
CURRENT parenting challenges, and CURRENT solutions to their parenting
challenges.

Streets and traffic risks to little children have been done away with?

Embry's methods are the most current there are. They are part of parent
training all over the country and in some other countries.

His work has been invoked as recently as the debate in Canada over the
attempt to end spanking there, that did in fact greatly reduce the kinds
of spanking and the ages of children it could be applied to, legally.

Someone besides me thinks this is relevant currently.

http://tinyurl.com/8ga9g

And here is the body of his comments to the magazine:

In the Summer 1987 issue of _Children_ magazine, Dr. Dennis Embry
writes:

"Since 1977 I have been heading up the only long-term project designed
to counteract pedestrian accidents to
preschool-aged children. (Surprisingly, getting struck by a car is
about the third leading cause of death to young children in the United
States.)

"Actual observation of parents and children shows that spanking,
scolding, reprimanding and nagging INCREASES the rate of street
entries by children. Children use going into the street as a
near-perfect way to gain parents' attention.

"Now there is a promising new educational intervention program,
called Safe Playing. The underlying principles of the program are
simple:

"1. Define safe boundaries in a POSITIVE way. "Safe players play
on the grass or sidewalk."
2. Give stickers for safe play. That makes it more fun than
playing dangerously.
3. Praise your child for safe play.

"These three principles have an almost instant effect on increasing
safe play. We have observed children who had been spanked many times
a day for going into the street, yet they continued to do it. The
moment the family began giving stickers and praise for safe play, the
children stopped going into the street.

Dennis D. Embry, Ph.D.
university of Kansas
Lawrence Kansas"

Still not interested?


~b


Known Doan long have you?

Kane

beccafromlalaland wrote:
0:- Wrote:

beccafromlalaland wrote:
I am monumentaly inconsistent?

I wonder if you are in some kind of threatening danger.

It turns out your posting host isn't who you claim it is. Or that you
pretended changed your post's headers to conceal your posting history
for "security."

Turns out you are using a German proxie.

Or rather, your hosting service is.

"212.227.108.236
address: Schlund + Partner AG
address: Brauerstrasse 48
address: D-76135 Karlsruhe
address: Germany"

Having used proxies myself, and for the reasons of security that were
in
response to very real threats I recieved, inluding face to face
confrontations, I can't help but worry for you.

A German proxie...hmmm...interesting.

Surely "lalaland" is not Berlin?

Your originating IP, of course, is, wouldn't you know it, a California
based company, SBC Internet Services, with an LA address too.

Been with them long? Have you?

Such a coincidence by the way, that Doan posts from an LA area IP, UC
servers in fact.

Could it be, or would it be a security breach, if you told me you
coincidentally are posting from the LA area, often referred to as
"lalaland?"


I am not in germany...never even been there. Funny about the LA
thing...I looked up my IP address it originates from El Paso TX. Which
really isn't suprising considering that is where my bill is sent from
every month. It wouldn't be a stretch of the imagination to consider
for a moment that a CO. as large as SBC would have regional offices.
Heck when I call for Tech support I'm routed to Pheonix, when I call
for billing inquiries I'm routed to India (I think...or they just have
a lot of indian people working for them) And "lalaland" refers to my
state of mind, not my location.

0:- Wrote:

Your child must be keeping you terrible busy these days. Let me see
now,
you have posted once to two other groups, which you never posted to
again. You did of course post in french to a poster that asked a
simple
question...really too simple... That was a master stroke.

Now let me see, who in this ng would be the most likely, besides you
of
course, to write in french. I'm reasonably sure LaVonne (who I'm
pretty
sure does) isn't operating a sock, but I'll ask.

Let me see now......where have I heard french spoken commonly before
in
my travels, outside of france? Hmmmm......

I would not want to put you at any risk. So don't answer if you think
it
might. We'll just assume you are German and let it go at that.

You and Doan should get better aquainted, as he too speaks and writes
french. Not uncommon in his family, I'm sure, being educated and all
and
likely some members of it even being educated in France.




My children do keep me busy. They are both high needs kids.

Why are you holding on to this French thing? Are you aware that in
American Highschools, one can take French, Spanish, and German language
classes? In my College one could take French, Spanish, and a tele-class
for Japanese. AND Every 2-3yrs RUSSIAN would be offered. Now if I had
posted in Russian that would have been ODD. French is a very commen
language for one to learn. Perhaps not as commen as Spanish, but still
commen enough.

vous êtes enfant

So, you claim to be a non-spanker.

I can't imagine one that would not be interested in the supporting
research, regardless of age, for one of the major concepts of
non-spanking parenting methods; teaching, rewards, encouragment.

Known Doan long?

Did you ever look at his archives of posts for some answers to your own
questions of me?

And why don't you ask HIM?

Why are you calling me names?

Tell me where those sources are for research on street entry reduction
or even other child safety related parenting methods that are more
recent and therefore, according to you, more relevent currently.

I really want to see them.

I'm sure Doan would like to as well, though he seems very reluctant to
post right now.

Kane




--
Isn't it interesting that the more honest an author appears to be,
the more like ourselves we think him. And the less so, how very
alien he doth appear? Kane 2006

How many times, How many ways do I have to say I DO NOT CARE about the Embry study!!! I DO NOT CARE I DO NOT CARE I DO NOT CARE.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL. I DO NOT CARE TO DEBATE THE EMBRY STUDY, I DO NOT CARE TO READ THE REST OF THE EMBRY STUDY, I DO NOT CARE TO SPEAK ANYMORE OF THE EMBRY STUDY. I HAVE READ ENOUGH OF YOUR MEANINGLESS MEANDERINGS ON THE SO CALLED MARVELOUS RESEARCH ON STREET ENTRY OF SMALL CHILDREN. I DO NOT CARE I DO NOT CARE I DO NOT CARE.

And yes I think you cling to that study because it IS difficult to obtain a copy. I asked my local university library how long it would take to get a copy 12 wks. Do you really feel it is worth my time to wait 3 months to get a copy of a 25yr old study that will tell me what I already know to be true.

I ALREADY KNOW THAT TO PREVENT CHILDREN FROM WALKING INTO THE STREET A PARENT MUST TAKE AN ACTIVE APPROACH. THAT IS WHAT EMBRY CONCLUDES ISN'T IT? ONE SHOULD NOT WAIT UNTIL THE CHILD IS IN THE STREET TO PUNISH HIM THROUGH CP, BUT SHOULD ACTIVILY TEACH THE CHILD STREET SAFETY.

NOW TELL ME KANE YOU IDIOT...IF THIS IS ALREADY COMMON SENSE TO MY GENERATION WHY WOULD I NEED TO READ A 25YR OLD STUDY TO CONFIRM WHAT I ALREADY KNOW?

IS IT GETTING THROUGH TO YOU YET AFTER COUNTLESS POSTS THAT I AM NOT INTERESTED!!!

AGAIN AND AGAIN I SAY IT BUT YOU ARE SINGLE MINDED IN YOUR RESOLVE TO CORNER ME AND FORCE ME TO SUBMIT TO YOUR DESIRE TO DISCUSS THIS OUTDATED STUDY.

I WILL NOT DO IT, SO YOU CAN DROP IT. GET OVER IT, GROW UP, GET A CLUE, GET A GRIP, GET A LIFE. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON BETWEEN YOU AND DOAN FOR FAR TOO LONG. YOU MAKE YOURSELF AN IDIOT TO THOSE WHO ARE ON YOUR "SIDE" YOU IMPUNE OUR INTEGRITY WITH YOUR ARROGANCE, EACH TIME YOU STAMP YOUR FOOT AND WHINE ABOUT THE STUDY YOU LOSE VALUABLE CREDIBILITY. IF YOU ARE AS EDUCATED AS YOU CLAIM TO BE YOU WOULD BE CONCIOUS OF THIS FACT, AND WISH TO PROTECT YOUR CREDIBILITY. INSTEAD I SEE YOU CONTINUALLY DUELING OVER A STUPID THING.

AGAIN AND AGAIN I SAY IT ONCE MORE GROW UP.

beccafromlalaland wrote:
How many times, How many ways do I have to say I DO NOT CARE about the
Embry study!!! I DO NOT CARE I DO NOT CARE I DO NOT CARE.

Am I to understand you do not care?

GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL.

I've known for some time you did not want to read the study. I've
simply made and effort to convince you it would be worth your time to
read if your interests are in non-CP parenting methods.

I assumed that you would be given one of your earliest posts here.

I DO NOT CARE TO DEBATE THE EMBRY
STUDY,

I certainly didn't mean to say "debate" to you if I did. "Discuss,"
"Examine," would be what we, who agree on the preferred non-CP
parenting methods would do.

I DO NOT CARE TO READ THE REST OF THE EMBRY STUDY,

The "rest?" You have part of the Embry study? Is that what Doan
directed you to?

I DO NOT CARE
TO SPEAK ANYMORE OF THE EMBRY STUDY. I HAVE READ ENOUGH OF YOUR
MEANINGLESS MEANDERINGS ON THE SO CALLED MARVELOUS RESEARCH ON STREET
ENTRY OF SMALL CHILDREN.

My comments have not been meaningless meanderings. They are sincere,
honest, and truthful opinions on the importance of this study. I'm very
concerned about child safety, your's and everyone's. Embry's findings
made a major breakthrough in dramatically decreasing the risks to
children.

Traffic entry deaths of children are among the highest causes of
accidental death of this population.

Embry observed that among the parents they saw spank their children
street entries did not decrease. When his program was applied they
decreased dramatically.

I DO NOT CARE I DO NOT CARE I DO NOT CARE.

Why are you yelling,

Are you not interested in what could, if more universally applied,
result in a reduction in child's injury and death in such situations?

It's my intent, when the first state, or the feds, create and pass a
bill, that the language of the bill will include alternatives to CP
being available. Dr. Embry's work will be at the top of the list I'll
offer to the workgroups creating the bills. There are others as well,
and like Embry's work more important for having been seasoned.

That is, these studies and methods applied have been very successfully
for decades. Recent work is interesting, but usually untested in the
field with a less controlled population, after the studies have been
completed. Just no time to do it.

And yes I think you cling to that study because it IS difficult to
obtain a copy.

On the contrary. I even offerred Doan a copy. He needs to admit he's
lied about having it, that's all.

I asked my local university library how long it would
take to get a copy 12 wks.

Really? 12 weeks? Extraordinary. There are no copies in libraries.

Do you really feel it is worth my time to
wait 3 months to get a copy of a 25yr old study that will tell me what
I already know to be true.

Yes. That's the nature of research. If it's good. If it's what you
believe to be true. If it's seasoned by 25 years of applied principles,
and you actually came here to learn about CP methods (what if not
that?) then yes, anything in the way of such research is helpful,
interesting, educational.

That makes it well worth your "time."

And you do not have to do nothing while you wait. Nothing in your life
will have to be put off or changed. If you order a seed catalogue, or a
book on another subject you are interested in, are you wasting your
time until it arrives?

I ALREADY KNOW THAT TO PREVENT CHILDREN FROM WALKING INTO THE STREET A
PARENT MUST TAKE AN ACTIVE APPROACH. THAT IS WHAT EMBRY CONCLUDES
ISN'T IT? ONE SHOULD NOT WAIT UNTIL THE CHILD IS IN THE STREET TO
PUNISH HIM THROUGH CP, BUT SHOULD ACTIVILY TEACH THE CHILD STREET
SAFETY.

Yes. That's the gist of the study alright. It runs in the face of
beliefs about CP that are ancient, wrong, and still the argument of the
spankers. In fact, it's not uncommon for some young family who has
decided to use non-cp methods to take heat from family members,
especially their own parents, that unless they spank to teach a child
not to enter the street they are risking their children's lives.

NOW TELL ME KANE YOU IDIOT...IF THIS IS ALREADY COMMON SENSE TO MY
GENERATION

It's not, as yet. It's claimed by spanking advocates the 90% or more of
parents spank still. Probably a true figure.

WHY WOULD I NEED TO READ A 25YR OLD STUDY TO CONFIRM WHAT I
ALREADY KNOW?

You only read to learn things you don't know? What makes you so sure
that there is nothing in the study that you don't already know?

IS IT GETTING THROUGH TO YOU YET AFTER COUNTLESS POSTS THAT I AM NOT
INTERESTED!!!

You don't have to reply. I'm not mailing these directly to you, and you
could filter those out. Simply don't answer me, if you aren't
interested.

AGAIN AND AGAIN I SAY IT BUT YOU ARE SINGLE MINDED IN YOUR RESOLVE TO
CORNER ME AND FORCE ME TO SUBMIT TO YOUR DESIRE TO DISCUSS THIS
OUTDATED STUDY.

How can I "corner" you? You know what a filter is. Use it if you aren't
interested.

You are, of course, doing "Doan" no favor, as you appear to be him
trying to work up a scenario that will allow "becca" to bail.

I WILL NOT DO IT, SO YOU CAN DROP IT. GET OVER IT, GROW UP, GET A
CLUE, GET A GRIP, GET A LIFE. THIS HAS BEEN GOING ON BETWEEN YOU AND
DOAN FOR FAR TOO LONG. YOU MAKE YOURSELF AN IDIOT TO THOSE WHO ARE ON
YOUR "SIDE"

Naw. I suspect they are intrigued by these strange behavior from one of
"us" that you display.

YOU IMPUNE OUR INTEGRITY WITH YOUR ARROGANCE, EACH TIME
YOU STAMP YOUR FOOT AND WHINE ABOUT THE STUDY YOU LOSE VALUABLE
CREDIBILITY.

There's nothing in what I've posted that a normal person could
interpret as either foot stamping or whining.

I'm also quite willing to "lose valuable credibility" if it makes one
more person aware of the research that's gone on.

You did say you are prone to breakdown and spank from time to time. I'm
concerned that if your child gets away from you ... well, I'm
concerned.

IF YOU ARE AS EDUCATED AS YOU CLAIM TO BE YOU WOULD BE
CONCIOUS OF THIS FACT, AND WISH TO PROTECT YOUR CREDIBILITY. INSTEAD I
SEE YOU CONTINUALLY DUELING OVER A STUPID THING.

I don't need "credibility" help. But thanks for your concern.

The Embry study isn't a stupid thing. And my education or lack of it
doesn't have any effect on whether I'm aware of my credibility levels.
It's unrelated.

AGAIN AND AGAIN I SAY IT ONCE MORE GROW UP.

You've said it a lot, but your remonstrance has been somewhat less than
grown up.

You are yelling. You are illogical in your argument. And frankly, you
are looking more and more like your master each post.

Do you think you have ranted enough now to "leave in a huff" and blame
it on me?

Or, as I mentioned in a prior post, are you attempting to incite me
into attacking you to make your leaving even more credible as my fault?

--
beccafromlalaland

Kane

www.usc.edu

On Thu, 26 Jan 2006, beccafromlalaland wrote:


Wow...I've been reduced to Doan's "imaginary friend" And Kane is
Delusional and trying to dig himself out of a hole.

You saw his LIES too? Remember he told you that the Embry Study can only
be obtained from Dr. Embry himself? ;-)

Interesting.

Kane: You truly are a paranoid ignoramus. You obviously know nothing
about internet stuff or you would know that posting from a remote site
attatched to the ng would change my header so as not to be able to be
tracked back easily by "crazies"

The term is "ignoranus". I wonder if Kane knows what it means. ;-)

I have zero interest in your precious Study. For two reasons. It is
something I learned in 6th grade. And for second I just really don't
care, it's an old study. Now if you had something published in the
last 2yrs I might be interested in reading it.

Oh, no! You meant to say that you know that parental supervisions
is better than relying on spanking or non-cp alternatives to keep your
kids out of the street??? Duh! ;-0

If you don't show an interest in this "precious study", which can only
be had by through Dr. Embry, how am I gonna get it from you? ;-)

I feel I should also let you know that you have lost quite a bit of
credibility with me.

NO. THAT'S SHOCKING, n'est pas? ;-)


Doan: although your views on Cp are repugnant to me, I must admit that
when it comes to follow through you lead the way. Not only did you keep
your end to direct me to the study, but you have been nothing but
respectful to me. Thanks.

You meant what I've said is true and contrary to the claims made by Kane?
How shocking! ;-)


Yours truly...Doan's Sock Puppet ~B

Oh, no! You blew our cover! ;-) I guess I have to come up with another
one. ;-)

Doan

On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:

Doan wrote:
On Wed, 25 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote:
....snip.......


Let's have a little fun here, Doan. This is so revealing. I see now
where you were able to get just enough info to try a con with us in the
past. Figured there had to be something in abstracts in some university
accessible source. Said so to you way back when.

Not only that, I can point you DIRECTLY to the source, by passing Dr.
Embry, where to get this "precious" study. BTW, this is only one of
his studies (hint, Report Number 2). The more you open your mouth, the
more you show your STUPIDITY, do you know that? ;-)


Really, Kane? Maybe you should learn how to count. ;-) Is this
another "mistake" or you are just showing off your "formidable research
skill". Here is an abstract search through my university online library:

Title: Reducing the Risk of Pedestrian Accidents to Preschoolers by Parent
Training and Symbolic Modeling for Children: An Experimental Analysis in
the Natural Environment. Research Report Number 2 of the Safe-Playing
Project.

Authors: Embry, Dennis D.; Malfetti, James L.;

Descriptors: Cost Effectiveness; Modeling (Psychology); National Programs;
Observation; Parent Education; Parent Workshops; Postsecondary Education;
Preschool Children; Preschool Education; Program Effectiveness; Research
Design; Research Needs; Safety Education; Story Reading; Traffic Safety;

Journal/Source Name: N/A

Journal Citation: N/A

Peer Reviewed: N/A

Publisher: N/A

Publication Date: 1980-00-00

Pages: 161

Pub Types: Reports - Research

Abstract: A traffic safety program consisting of a workshop for parents
and the use of special storybooks with their children was effective in
reducing 13 preschool children's entries into the street to a rate
approximately 10% of that previously observed.

Dear me, could THIS be what's made you reluctant to follow up on the
foolish "I DARE YOU" you ran off at the mouth with?

That means these non-cp methods appear to have worked to an
unpresidented degree.

What non-cp methods, Kane? Please share it with us commoners. ;-)

The program also increased
parents' use of praise and reward for safe play and children's correct
identification of photographs depicting safe play, while reducing the rate
at which parents reprimanded their children for unsafe play. A
multiple-baseline design across subjects was used to assess program
effects among the 13 preschool children and their parents who participated
in observational and treatment phases of the experimental program.

That's the situation that produced the number 13. There were more
children and families, for a total of 33. The other group did not have
pre action phase observeations done. Nothing remarkable in that. But you
could debate away for ever on it, except you'd run into spanker
proponent cited studies that are around the 13 number. 0:-

So the number 13 is false??? Please tell us how does this number, 33 or
13, will ever achieve statistical significant?

The
study involved two conditions: a baseline condition in which behavioral
and conceptual data related to play safety were collected and a treatment
condition providing workshops for parents and story reading for their
children.

That means that the other group would not be evaluated as to their pre
study action phase for safe play or unsafe play.

You meant they have no data?

Through slide-show/lecture, videotapes and behavioral rehearsal,
parents were taught ways to improve the safety of their children's play.

And assure you that all 33 and their families were given the same training.

So how do they measure improvement? Damn, you are too stupid! ;-)

Children were read storybooks that elicited responses to approximately 25
questions and emphasized safe play. Home-based observations were conducted
during the parent workshop and storybook condition. Effects of the
intervention were maintained for 5 to 6 months after participation in the
study. Upon completion of the study, preliminary estimates of the costs
and benefits of dissemination of the materials to all organized day care
centers and preschools in the United States were made. (Related materials
are included in seven appendices.) (Author/RH)

Gosh, and you wonder how I might have gotten a copy? Of course I could
just ask for one and did and got it. Way back.

Not according to what you have posted. Shall I looked back in the
archives? ;-)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Identifiers: N/A

Record Type: Non-Journal

Level: 1 - Reproducible in paper and microfiche; and, since 1993, in
electronic format; materials issued from January 1993 - July 2004 are now
available at no cost through this Web site

Should I "con" you out of this copy? ;-)

Why no, you should just order a copy. It would be at no cost. Why not
get one and prove that you have it? Heck, there are people on the anti
spank side that would probably be willing to receive it. Why not ask?

I already have them. Way back when Chris brought this up. I asked
everyone in this newsgroup for a copy, including Chris. I came up empty
handed. I took the time, go to the library as Chris suggested. I did my
homework and got a copy from the SOURCE, not Dr. Embry.

Or is that a 'braaaawk, braaaawk, braaaaaaaaaaaaaaawk" I hear coming out
of the bushes?

...snip....

Why Doan, you've nothing to lose and everything to gain, do you not,
being a neutral proponent of parents being as fully informed as possible
and more able to effectively do what you say you want them to do: make
up their own minds. Or have I read your statements to the effect wrong
or misunderstood?

Or you just lied!

This would be both a service to parents, and incidentally might boost
your credibility here with other readers, and who knows, being as I'm
super impressed with reformed liars, and quite gentle with them on the
"clean and sober" side of their offenses, do so with me as well.

I don't need to boost my credibility. When you are telling the truth, you
have NOTHING to fear. Not even all the mud-slinging from you will harm
me. I just exposed you LIES to whoever that listen and voila! QED. ;-)

Or aren't you a real proponent of non-cp decisions by parents?

I leave the decision to the parents. I trust the parents, not the
guvinment! Who do you trust? ;-)

Doan