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#11
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Beliavsky wrote:
On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote: I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn, and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery, punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement, and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits. Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/ . [snip] OTOH, there is a certain temperament which would respond to a spanking by saying "that didn't hurt". I think it tends to go with stubborness. I think most of the advice the OP has had is spot on. With a stubborn child, you have to decide what matters to you and really enforce that. With the things that you aren't willing to have an hour-long tantrum over, you don't even make an issue to begin with. As far as the speech therapy appointment goes, I wouldn't start trying to get the boy to agree to be good before hand. I might talk about the appointment by saying what I was going to do - "I'm going to say 'hello', do you think she'll say 'hello' back?" What I have found is that eventually they will realise that if you always stick to what you say, they will give in sooner. This takes *years* of consistancy. -- Penny Gaines UK mum to three |
#12
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
"Dom" wrote in message ... I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn, and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery, punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement, and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits. Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? This has been highlighted after attempting speech therapy, and wasting an entire 1 hour assesment, because he would not attempt the activities. Having taken my 4 year old to speech therepy recently, I think that's not uncommon. They certainly commented that they had children who refused to say anything so they couldn't assess them. I know that my #2 tends to be more stubborn when she's lacking attention or feeling unsettled. Sometimes an afternoon on her own with mummy or daddy doing something that's a little bit of a treat can work wonders. Debbie |
#13
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Penny Gaines wrote:
Beliavsky wrote: On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote: I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn, and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery, punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement, and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits. Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/ . [snip] OTOH, there is a certain temperament which would respond to a spanking by saying "that didn't hurt". I think it tends to go with stubborness. I was spanked as a child, and so I thought that was an appropriate way to do things. But with my stubborn child that was exactly the way she reacted and that's why I decided that it wasn't an effective method. I think most of the advice the OP has had is spot on. With a stubborn child, you have to decide what matters to you and really enforce that. With the things that you aren't willing to have an hour-long tantrum over, you don't even make an issue to begin with. As far as the speech therapy appointment goes, I wouldn't start trying to get the boy to agree to be good before hand. I might talk about the appointment by saying what I was going to do - "I'm going to say 'hello', do you think she'll say 'hello' back?" I have not had a child in speech therapy but maybe there is some reason that he fears the outcome. Possibly he thinks he will be rejected by you if he doesn't do well. My stubborn child was also very competitive, but if she was anxious about the outcome and thought she might not be successful, she would talk herself out of trying. Also it might be that there is a mismatch in personality between the tester and the testee. I would really want to want to ask him questions (put so that he has to say something other than yes or no). What did you like about ..." and if he says 'nothing', then ask What did you not like? What I have found is that eventually they will realise that if you always stick to what you say, they will give in sooner. This takes *years* of consistancy. Absolutely |
#14
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
With regard to the speech therapist ... when our children were small and needed similar assessments, we NEVER told them they were being "tested". Instead, we told them they were going to meet a nice grownup who would play or talk with them for a bit. If the child recognized the problem, then we'd add that the grownup would see what the best ways were to help the child with the problem. (One child was scared of heights, heights as low as 4 inches, and was eager to be less scared so he could play with his friends on the playground.) Even a 4-year old can have come to associate bad things with the word "test", and knows that a test can be "failed". The suggestions that Dorothy made were excellent. Our other son really benefited from the Molly Bang book (When Sophie Gets Angry). We read it together and talked about it a LOT. He also benefited, at the age of four, from having a goal (being allowed to take tae kwon do classes) that was only attainable once he managed to control his temper. By that, I don't mean become less angry, but I do mean control how he responded to his anger. Good luck, --Beth Kevles -THE-COM-HERE http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner. NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the GMAIL one if you would like me to reply. |
#15
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Feb 19, 1:17 am, Beliavsky wrote:
"Nonabusive" is defined as about 2 open-hand swats to the buttocks when a parent is not angrily out of control. I hope the NG doesn't rise to the bait on this one. Regardless of spanking's general role, this kid does not sound like someone who'd be terribly impressed by 2 open handed swats to the bottom. Absolute consistency, picking battles very carefully, and teaching him how to get control of his emotions when he's angrily out of control sounds like a far more fruitful approach. Kate, ignorant foot soldier of the medical cartel and the Bug, 4 and a half and something brewing, 4/08 |
#16
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Feb 19, 7:09*am, enigma wrote:
Beliavsky wrote oups.com: On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote: Any ideas? *We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. *How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. *i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion & then look for *anything* that supports your opinion, even if you have to deliberately misread it to validate your thoughts. *the OPs child is not severely misbehaving, he's *stubborn*. there's a huge difference. I guess thinking differently from you is the same as not thinking at all. Are there any situations where you think spanking is justified? |
#17
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
In article , enigma says...
Beliavsky wrote in oups.com: On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote: Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion & then look for *anything* that supports your opinion, even if you have to deliberately misread it to validate your thoughts. the OPs child is not severely misbehaving, he's *stubborn*. there's a huge difference. since they are having him eveluated by a speech therapist, there are, most likely, communication difficulties that the child is having. you may have no idea just how frustrating that can be to a child, and it's a frequent cause of acting out behavior. Notice - his source is from an institution that proudly touts itself as providing "biblically based education". And the link is taken from a compiled list of "critiques of anti-spanking research". So often if one pokes into Beliavsky's posts, one finds agenda-laden sources. Banty |
#18
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
In article , Welches says...
"Dom" wrote in message ... I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn, and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery, punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement, and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits. Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? This has been highlighted after attempting speech therapy, and wasting an entire 1 hour assesment, because he would not attempt the activities. Having taken my 4 year old to speech therepy recently, I think that's not uncommon. They certainly commented that they had children who refused to say anything so they couldn't assess them. I know that my #2 tends to be more stubborn when she's lacking attention or feeling unsettled. Sometimes an afternoon on her own with mummy or daddy doing something that's a little bit of a treat can work wonders. Debbie Yes. My son got speech therapy, and he basically shut down during the evalutation, as the evaluator pushed a bit hard. He also shut down during his first visual examination, because the optometrist started by pointing a sharp pencil close to his face, intending to ask him to follow it as she moved it side to side. Of course, he didnt' know that, and was startled and just went straight to my lap. The solution in both cases was to find someone *else* with a different manner. He's never been a particularly difficult child, and when he was he would just shut down (not do anything) rather than tantrum. But I would either decide it's not so important after all, or I would try to identify what was triggering him and change that. A time or two I did have to simply make him follow through. Four is also a particularly difficult age for this sort of thing. My son would get upset if I took the 'wrong' route to do errands, for example. Banty |
#19
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
In article ,
Beliavsky says... On Feb 19, 7:09=A0am, enigma wrote: Beliavsky wrote innews:1d8ca197-3ea0-46fb-a402-d2940f4= oups.com: On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote: Any ideas? =A0We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. =A0How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. =A0i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion & then look for *anything* that supports your opinion, even if you have to deliberately misread it to validate your thoughts. =A0the OPs child is not severely misbehaving, he's *stubborn*. there's a huge difference. I guess thinking differently from you is the same as not thinking at all. Are there any situations where you think spanking is justified? I'm actually not anti-spanking - to me any useful tool in the parenting toolbox is a good thing. In the right hands, though. Take a look at Akuvikate's post. This isn't a boy that spanking would like work with, and that can very plausibly make the issue worse. What Enigma is said is spot on - you want to talk about the hammer you like, so you think everything is a nail. Plus you dont' seem to have much ability to evaluate your sources. Banty |
#20
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Beliavsky wrote in
oups.com: On Feb 19, 7:09*am, enigma wrote: Beliavsky wrote glegr oups.com: On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote: Any ideas? *We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. *How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. *i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion & then look for *anything* that supports your opinion, even if you have to deliberately misread it to validate your thoughts. *the OPs child is not severely misbehaving, he's *stubborn*. there's a huge difference. I guess thinking differently from you is the same as not thinking at all. Are there any situations where you think spanking is justified? my son is 7.5 years old and i can honestly say that there has never been a situation where i felt the need to spank him. he is not the most compliant child & he has autistic tendancies, which can be more than slightly annoying. but hit him? nope. there are always better & easier solutions than a smack. lee -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
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