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#1
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn,
and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery, punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement, and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits. Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? This has been highlighted after attempting speech therapy, and wasting an entire 1 hour assesment, because he would not attempt the activities. Dom. |
#2
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Dom wrote:
I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn, and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery, punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement, and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits. Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? This has been highlighted after attempting speech therapy, and wasting an entire 1 hour assesment, because he would not attempt the activities. The fix is the same as the fix for a tantrum - which this is except he has more control. He has got your number. He does find satisfaction in resisting your direction. So as much as possible - ignore him. I had one like this except she was a girl - also the second one in the family. Very competitive child. You will have to think very carefully about the non-negotiable items in his life. Not things like eating or using the toilet. Things like being in a child safety seat in the car, not playing with knives/matches etc. And be prepared to ignore the non-essentials. Think about what you are going to do if he refused to do something and don't ask for anything that you are not going to enforce. |
#3
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Rosalie,
Trying to enforce our directions normally result in tantrums. We can handle them and back each other up emotionally. He will usually give up crying and screaming after an hour or so, and will often fall asleep from exhaustion. This happened after the visit to the speech therapist. We told him he could play the Nintendo in the afternoon if he was good, then when we left he wanted to play the Nintendo, and we said no, not until he's completed the assesment, which hopefully will be next Monday. This prompted severe protests, screaming, kicking, crying etc. He kept this up for an hour, then tried it some more on the following day, though for not as long. I expect there will be more over the coming week. When asked if he will cooperate with the speech therapist next time, the answer is a stubborn "No!" with arms crossed, and a grumpy look on his face. If this behaviour wasn't so common it would be quite funny. Dom. |
#4
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Dom wrote:
Rosalie, Trying to enforce our directions normally result in tantrums. We can handle them and back each other up emotionally. He will usually give up crying and screaming after an hour or so, and will often fall asleep from exhaustion. This happened after the visit to the speech therapist. We told him he could play the Nintendo in the afternoon if he was good, then when we left he wanted to play the Nintendo, and we said no, not until he's completed the assesment, which hopefully will be next Monday. This prompted severe protests, screaming, kicking, crying etc. He kept this up for an hour, then tried it some more on the following day, though for not as long. I expect there will be more over the coming week. When asked if he will cooperate with the speech therapist next time, the answer is a stubborn "No!" with arms crossed, and a grumpy look on his face. If this behaviour wasn't so common it would be quite funny. With a kid like that, you're just going to have to endure a lot of tantrums--that's why Rosalie suggested choosing your battles carefully ;-) Choosing your battles and keeping them to the absolute minimum won't magically make him more compliant. It will just make your life a little easier while maintaining the iron-clad rule that you follow through 100 percent of the time. You must never, ever tell him he has to do something, and then fail to follow through--even if he throws a huge fit. You can't afford to draw a line in the sand if you're not willing and able to defend it. So, for everything that isn't absolutely essential, you can say "yes" or "maybe" or "I'll think about it" or whatever you like, but if it is important you have to spell it out clearly and then follow through. In my experience, it also helps to stay one step ahead of the kid and try not to trigger the stubbornness if you can help it. Don't let on that things are really important to you. Don't back him into a corner--make him think things are *his* choice as often as you can. Try not to get emotionally involved when he's being stubborn. Do what you have to do, but without losing your temper or showing him that you're seething with frustration and embarrassment on the inside. If you can ignore, do so. Work really, really hard on rewarding the positive. Catch him being good as often as you can, and praise or otherwise reward him--even if it's for something tiny. Only praise him when he's genuinely doing the right thing, but look really hard for those opportunities and pounce on them when they happen. Best wishes, Ericka |
#5
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Dom wrote:
Rosalie, Trying to enforce our directions normally result in tantrums. We can handle them and back each other up emotionally. He will usually give up crying and screaming after an hour or so, and will often fall asleep from exhaustion. This happened after the visit to the speech therapist. We told him he could play the Nintendo in the afternoon if he was good, then when we left he wanted to play the Nintendo, and we said no, not until he's completed the assesment, which hopefully will be next Monday. This prompted severe protests, screaming, kicking, crying etc. He kept this up for an hour, then tried it some more on the following day, though for not as long. I expect there will be more over the coming week. When asked if he will cooperate with the speech therapist next time, the answer is a stubborn "No!" with arms crossed, and a grumpy look on his face. If this behaviour wasn't so common it would be quite funny. Dom. When he does give in without a big fight, make sure you reward him for that. As Erika pointed out, when you draw your line in the sand, you can't let him cross it. But you can also make it worthwhile for him to not want to cross it, as well. It's a tough battle, I know. Jeff |
#6
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 18:33:09 -0800 (PST), Dom
wrote: Trying to enforce our directions normally result in tantrums. We can handle them and back each other up emotionally. He will usually give up crying and screaming after an hour or so, and will often fall asleep from exhaustion. This doesn't seem like a very happy situation for either you or him. This happened after the visit to the speech therapist. We told him he could play the Nintendo in the afternoon if he was good, Good is too nebulous, you have to make your rewards contingent on something more specific. then when we left he wanted to play the Nintendo, and we said no, And perhaps he was good by his assessment, so you were being unfair. not until he's completed the assesment, which hopefully will be next Monday. That's too long to wait for a reward for a 4 year old boy. This prompted severe protests, screaming, kicking, crying etc. He kept this up for an hour, then tried it some more on the following day, though for not as long. I expect there will be more over the coming week. When he tantrums, how do you react? It seems to me that he is getting plenty of negative attention for his tantrumming, so they ratchet up. When asked if he will cooperate with the speech therapist next time, the answer is a stubborn "No!" with arms crossed, and a grumpy look on his face. Why ask him a question you already know the answer to. If this behaviour wasn't so common it would be quite funny. You need to get out of the negative cycle. Make a list (a short one) of non-negotiable items. These are ones you are willing to put up with tantrums for to obtain eventual compliance. Generally violence falls into this category - throwing things, hitting or kicking people, etc. Think about things which are negotiable. For those things, let him have his way as much as you can. Every day find things he is doing that are *good* and encourage those by acknowledging them. *You cleaned up the cars.* *I bet it was fun playing and cooperating with your brother.* *I like your picture. You used a lot of blue in it. Is that your favorite color?* Find about 1/2 hour every day where you play with him and allow him to be the boss, getting you to do what he wants. Don't try to structure an activity for him at this time, let him tell you what he wants to do. If you can take him out without his brother for a while and pay attention only to him that may help him to feel special. To help him deal with his anger and frustration, try teaching him self-calming techniques when he is calm and reminding him to use them when he is frustrated. Self-Calming Techniques We have learned to teach our children to name feelings which is good, but need to teach them how to cope with feelings. Your first defense is heading off things before the situation starts to deteriorate. Prevention: give choices; say yes when you can (yes – you can have a cookie after dinner); use skills you’ve learned (e.g., leaving the house, give warning, transitional object). We do want to help kids identify and name their feelings. But we really want to teach our kids how to cope with their feelings. These are life skills. The emotionally literate child is more likely to be successful in school, at work and in interpersonal relationships. Emotional intelligence helps safeguard children from drug and alcohol addiction, eating disorders, aggressive behavior and depression. When we pay more attention to certain emotions we see more of it (e.g., your child falls down and looks to Mom to see if they should cry). The Self-Calming Plan 1. Acknowledge and name the feeling (just knowing someone is empathetic helps) 2. Set limits (its okay to be angry but hitting the cat is not okay) 3. Offer self-calming choices (limit two for young children) Six Categories Audio/Verbal listen to calming music, sing a song, talk to someone sympathetic ear), listen to water, use your words Visual look at/read a book, look outside, go to your happy place, watch an aquarium Creative draw a picture (mad picture), make something (craft or cook), write a letter (journal), write/draw on paper and throw it away Self-nurturing get a hug, get a snack (hungry? – low blood sugar; careful, don't just offer food as substitute), take a warm bath Physical (these ideas can be better than a time-out) run, shake (hands or all over, like a wet puppy), relax muscles (melt like a snowman), breathe (pretend to be a balloon and then blow bubbles), hug yourself, hug a critter, playdough, float like a feather, massage Humor watch a funny video (funniest animals), make silly faces, read a funny book, find humor in a situation **Use different calming techniques for anger, versus anxiety, versus sadness. **For frustration with toys, ask what you can do different next time. **With younger kids, experiment with what works. For older kids, don’t forget to communicate – ask them what works. Pick out a couple of self-calming techniques to suggest ahead of time (for, or with your child depending on age). Observe your child. They may have come up with something on their own. Consider the types of stress. You may want to offer different self-calming choices for anger or frustration than you would for being anxious. What could we do different next time? Talk about it when both of you are calm. Kids go through three stages as they learn self-calming skills: 1. They learn the activity itself. If a child can’t do the activity easily when calm, asking him/her what to do when upset will increase anger or frustration rather than decrease it. 2. They notice that doing an activity changes how they feel. 3. They realize that they can use a specific activity to intentionally change how they feel. Teaching Breathing Ballooning When you balloon, you breathe in (deeply) and as you breath in you start with your arms at your sides and raise them up parallel to your shoulders and up over your head. Then you blow it all out, make it exaggerated like a balloon spewing out all the air. The kids really like it and it really lowers tension. Draining When you drain, you put both hands out in front of you, you twist (and twist, and twist and twist) your hands around like you were turning off water and you screw your face all up, then you blow the air out through your lips (I know... there will be a little spit!) but the kids really like that one and you can feel the stress and tension leaving your own body! (automatic stress relief!) Then when he is upset, you can say *balloon* or *drain* to remind him to breathe Some books to read with him: When Sophie Gets Angry, Really, Really Angry by Molly Bang That Makes Me Mad! by Steven Kroll I Was So Mad by Norma Simon It's Hard to Be Five : Learning How to Work My Control Panel by Jamie Lee Curtis How to Take the Grrrr Out of Anger by Elizabeth Verdick A Volcano in My Tummy : Helping Children to Handle Anger by Eliane Whitehouse Don't Pop Your Cork on Mondays!: The Children's Anti-Stress Book by Adolph Mose I Can't Wait by Elizabeth Crary I Want It by Elizabeth Crary For yourself, you may want to read: The Explosive Child: A New Approach for Understanding and Parenting Easily Frustrated, Chronically Inflexible Children Good Luck! -- Dorothy There is no sound, no cry in all the world that can be heard unless someone listens .. The Outer Limits |
#7
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Thanks Dorothy! These are some great suggestions. I think the
calming techniques are what's been missing in my parenting toolbox. I remember now from my childhood, the only calming technique that were effective on myself as a child were cold showers. This is a bit drastic, and I don't think we're there yet, but the breathing games sound like fun. I just wont let on that they are a behaviour management tool, and start off as a game. I understand your point about the length of time for a punishment, and we do use this technique as a starting point. However, the boys very rarely are allowed to play computer games during the week, and the severity of the punishment was in response to his escalating bad behaviour. Normally we try to ignore escalation, and know not to reward it. I guess I glossed over the details of the session with the speech therapist. We were very clear and direct with what we meant by 'good'. We were concerned that he lacked the confidence to attempt the activities and that they were overwhelming, so we compromised with him and reduced the activities making them seem more manageable. (I know that he can do the activities, he is doing pre-school level activities, and he has only just started kindergarten. He can count extremely well, and can write his own name.) But by this stage he had made up his mind, and was determined not to be properly assessed. His mother and I were eventually able to get him to talk a little, so the session was not a complete waste, however he did not want to interact with the therapist. Dominic. |
#8
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Dom wrote:
Rosalie, Trying to enforce our directions normally result in tantrums. We can handle them and back each other up emotionally. He will usually give up crying and screaming after an hour or so, and will often fall asleep from exhaustion. That isn't what I meant by 'enforce'. I meant that if he refused to sit in the car seat, you strap him in without paying any attention to the crying etc. This happened after the visit to the speech therapist. We told him he could play the Nintendo in the afternoon if he was good, then when we left he wanted to play the Nintendo, and we I agree with Dorothy - you weren't specific enough about 'good', and the reward wasn't immediate enough. said no, not until he's completed the assesment, which hopefully will be next Monday. This prompted severe protests, screaming, kicking, crying etc. He kept this up for an hour, then tried it some more on the following day, though for not as long. I expect there will be The following day?? What happened the following day? Did he ask again to play with the nintendo or what? more over the coming week. When asked if he will cooperate with the speech therapist next time, the answer is a stubborn "No!" with arms crossed, and a grumpy look on his face. If this behaviour wasn't so What happens if you ask him a question that he wants to answer yes? Some kids just can't say anything but no. common it would be quite funny. Have you asked your parents if they had to deal with similar behavior from either of you or any of your siblings, and if so, how did they handle it? |
#9
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote:
I have a 6yo and 4yo, both boys. The younger is extremely stubborn, and his mother and I are finding it near impossible to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do. We have tried rewards/bribery, punishments like removing favourite toys, exclusion, encouragement, and nothing seems to work. He seems to find satisfaction in resisting our directions regardless of the consequences or benefits. Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. Some research supporting this belief is at http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/ . http://faculty.biola.edu/paulp/mappvalsum.pdf Comparing Child Outcomes of Physical Punishment and Alternative Disciplinary Tactics: A Meta-Analysis Robert E. Larzelere and Brett R. Kuhn March 31, 2007 Executive Summary Drs. Robert Larzelere (Oklahoma State Univ.) and Brett Kuhn (Univ. of Nebraska Medical Center) published the first scientific review of studies of physical discipline that compared the child outcomes of its use directly with outcomes of alternative disciplinary tactics used by parents.Reviewing fifty years of research on child discipline, they identified 26 relevant studies on child outcomes of physical punishment. Their conclusion: Child outcomes of physical discipline depend on how it is applied. The outcomes of physical discipline compared unfavorably with alternative disciplinary tactics only when it was the primary disciplinary method or was too severe (such as beating up a child or striking the face or head). The outcomes of "customary" physical discipline were neither better nor worse than for any alternative tactic, except for one study favoring physical discipline for reducing drug abuse. They also identified an optimal type of physical discipline, called conditional spanking, which led to better child outcomes than 10 of 13 alternative disciplinary tactics and produced outcomes equivalent to those of the remaining three tactics. Conditional spanking is nonabusive, used when a child responds defiantly to milder disciplinary tactics such as time out (based on research on 2- to 6-year-olds). "Nonabusive" is defined as about 2 open-hand swats to the buttocks when a parent is not angrily out of control. Conditional spanking teaches a child to cooperate with the milder disciplinary tactic, thereby making spanking less necessary in the future. |
#10
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Stubborn 4 year old boy.
Beliavsky wrote in
oups.com: On Feb 18, 7:43 pm, Dom wrote: Any ideas? We have had professionals tell us they have never seen a child as stubborn. How can we make him more compliant, but not break his spirit? You have not mentioned spanking as a punishment, so it seems you have ruled that out. I don't think non-abusive spanking of a child for severe misbehavior will have bad long-term consequences. i don't think you think much at all. you form an opinion & then look for *anything* that supports your opinion, even if you have to deliberately misread it to validate your thoughts. the OPs child is not severely misbehaving, he's *stubborn*. there's a huge difference. since they are having him eveluated by a speech therapist, there are, most likely, communication difficulties that the child is having. you may have no idea just how frustrating that can be to a child, and it's a frequent cause of acting out behavior. to the OP, have you also thought to have your son tested for hearing &/or auditory processing issues? he may not be hearing what you are actually saying to him & that can be causing problems when he thinks he's following what you asked, but isn't because he totally misheard. lee -- Last night while sitting in my chair I pinged a host that wasn't there It wasn't there again today The host resolved to NSA. |
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