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Chemically beating children: Pinellas Poisoners Heilman and Talley



 
 
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Old July 4th 04, 11:26 PM
Todd Gastaldo
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Default Chemically beating children: Pinellas Poisoners Heilman and Talley

SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE REPORT.

This CITIZEN ACTION - this email - is being sent to the Pinellas County
(Florida) Sheriff via the email addresses listed below. (I will also cc it
to Oregon Attorney General Hardy Meyers via )

While any citizen MAY report suspected child abuse to his or her county
sheriff...healthcare professionals are MANDATED to do so. Talk to your
dentist today.


FLUORINE IS A "MUSCULAR" VIOLENT ("REACTIVE") MOLECULE...

PINELLAS COUNTY (FLORIDA) PUBLIC OFFICIALS ARE CHEMICALLY BEATING CHILDREN
WITH IT...

Christopher Bryson [2004] writes of fluorine:

"The same potent chemical that is used to enrich uranium for nuclear
weapons...is what we give to our children...Fluoride is so muscular a
chemical...it's also a grave environmental hazard...[When industry-sponsored
scientists c]hanged fluoride's image from poison to panacea...[they]
deflect[ed] attention from...the injury that factory fluoride pollution has
long wreaked on workers, citizens, and nature." [Bryson C. The Fluoride
Deception. NY: Seven Stories Press 2004:xv]


Pinellas County "FLUORIDA"...

"[M]uch of the fluoride added to drinking water today...is actually an
industrial waste, 'scrubbed' from the smokestacks of Florida phosphate
fertilizer mills...In a sweetheart deal these phosphate companies are spared
the expense of disposing of this 'fluosilicic acid' in a toxic waste dump.
Instead, the acid is sold to municipalities, shipped in rubber-lined tanker
trucks to reservoirs across North America and injected into drinking
water..." [Bryson 2004:xvii]:


MOST American counties have drinking water poisoners that use this
"muscular", violent ("reactive") molecule.

DISNEYLAND's drinking water is poisoned by Orange County poisoners...

Is Disneyland DA Tony Rackauckas doing anything about it? I'll cc him
(again) via
.


PINELLAS POISONERS HEILMAN AND TALLEY ARE REFUSING TO DEBATE THEIR POISONOUS
BEHAVIOR

NOTE: I do NOT want Heilman and Talley punished; I just want them to stop
poisoning the water supply. I want ALL poisoners to stop. I am in favor of
pardons in advance. See the very end of this post.

Bryson [2004:xxi] writes: "[i]t is time to recognize the folly, hubris, and
secret agendas that have shackled us...poisoning our water...It is time...to
speak truth to power...It will be public opinion and citizen action that
strike those shackles free."

This citizen action is a SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE REPORT being sent to the
Pinellas County (Florida) Sheriff via the email addresses listed below.

While any citizen MAY report suspected child abuse to his or her county
sheriff...healthcare professionals are MANDATED to do so. Talk to your
dentist today.


"TOTALLY CRIMINAL" says Dr. Limeback, a dentist...

Dr. Hardy Limeback of the University of Toronto in Canada used to be a
fluoride promoter - now he's a fluoride protester.

Dr. Limeback says fluoridation is "totally criminal." (See The Fluoride
Deception by Christopher Bryson [2004:225].)

(KEY QUOTE FROM DR. LIMEBACK: "'I did not realize the toxicity of
fluoride...I had taken the word of the public health dentists, the public
health physicians, the USPHS, the USCDC, the ADA, the CDA [Canadian Dental
Association] that fluoride was safe and effective without actually
investigating it myself.'" [Limeback quoted in Bryson 2004:xix])


Dr. Paul Connett says fluoridation is causing "unnecessary harm" to
"millions"...
http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm

Some of those millions are children.

Causing children unnecessary harm is CHILD ABUSE (see "crippling skeletal
fluorosis" discussion below.)

REPORTING child abuse is MANDATORY...

WHY AREN'T ANTI-FLUORIDATION FOLKS REPORTING FLUORIDATION AS CHILD ABUSE as
debates are sought with the poisoners?

See CHEMICALLY beating a child, below.



LOCAL POISONERS (euphemism "fluoridators") are putting an extremely toxic
poison (euphemism "fluoride") into the water supply in Pinellas County and
elsewhere...

NOTE: Citizen commissioners who *innocently* vote for fluoride poisoning *on
the advice of experts* are not poisoners; neither are the workers who handle
the toxic stuff on orders.

The culprits are the local yes-men experts (parrots for the out-of-town
experts who started the mass child abuse)...

In Pinellas County, the local yes-men experts are Pinellas County Health
Department's John Heilman, MD and Pinellas County Utilities Director Pick
Talley...



A HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT

Local poisoners John Heilman, MD and Pick Talley are creating a hostile
environment - yet Pinellas County Administrator Steve Spratt reportedly says
of the proposed debate that "he's not certain he wants to subject [John and
Pick] to what may be a hostile environment."^^^

^^^Administrator Spratt paraphrase by MICHAEL SANDLER, St. Petersburg Times
Staff Writer Published July 3, 2004, emphasis added (see below).

Administrator Spratt's mention of "a hostile environment" reminds me of
something I read in The Fluoride Deception:

Fluoride AIR polluters did not want to lose lawsuits for polluting the AIR
with fluoride - so they put fluoride in drinking water - ostensibly "to
prevent cavities" - but actually to prevent huge damage awards in fluoride
air pollution lawsuits. (In effect, fluoride polluters have said: "Ladies
and gentleman of the jury, how could fluoride in the AIR be causing problems
if people are *drinking* the stuff to prevent tooth decay?")

Fluoride in the air WAS causing problems. Floride polluters proved this
with research - then buried the research and promoted the hell out of
poisoning WATER with the stuff...

"Fluoridation" was born. Fluoridation is a euphemism for "poisoning the
water with small amounts of toxic phosphate fertilizer waste."

READ BRYSON'S BOOK.

It is Pinellas County Poisoners Heilman and Talley who are creating the
hostile environment.

Administrator Spratt correctly predicts they may face a hostile environment
at a public debate.

It is quite natural for people to get hostile when their children are being
poisoned "scientifically" by local yes-men experts for the polluters.



STUPID MASS CHILD ABUSERS...

I think Pinellas poisoners Heilman and Talley are STUPID mass child abusers:
Either they can't read or understand what they've read...OR (more likely)
they are being PAID^^^ to perpetuate mass child abuse - which is also stupid
of course...

^^^There are various ways to pay people to perpetuate the mass child abuse.
People who have opposed fluoridation have lost their jobs; so it is possible
that Heilman and Talley are behaving dishonestly because they fear they will
lose their jobs if they don't behave dishonestly. It's stupid -
unconscionable - but understandable.

Heilman and Talley's failure to debate their own "facts" is a disgrace - a
silent cover-up of the fact that they either don't know the real facts - or
they don't care.

In regard to their silent cover-up, I very much enjoyed reading Prof.
Connett's response to mass child abuser Pick Talley's rejection of debate...

Prof. Connett, who holds a doctorate in chemistry and is an environmental
chemist wrote to Pick Talley:

"I think I know a little more about the 'facts' on this matter than you do
and have concluded that your refusal to debate is based upon your fear that
your lack of knowledge will be exposed. Hopefully, neither the taxpayers nor
the commissioners of Pinellas County will put up with your arrogant
posture...In short, you are not protecting the public from 'fear' as you
suggest, but from their finding out the truth. In a democracy that is far
more frightening. Unfortunately, you have put your trust in authorities
upon which one can normally rely for health matters. For most health issues
this would be a reasonable thing to do, but in the case of water
fluoridation your confidence is sadly misplaced. Ever since the US Public
Health Service endorsed fluoridation in 1950 (before one single fluoridation
trial had been completed!) it has been part of their agenda to defend this
policy at all costs - costs which include the long-term health of the
American people as well as their right to informed consent to medication.
However, the best and most rational way to resolve this is for you to find
spokespersons from any of the agencies on which you rely to defend their
assurances themselves. If you cannot do so I am afraid it puts both their
position and yours in serious doubt. Certainly, it should not provide the
confidence for others [Pick Talley and John Heilman, MD - TG] to put a known
toxic substance into the drinking water of every man woman and child in your
community at levels which are up to 200 times the concentration found
naturally in mothers' milk."

See Prof. Paul Connett's FAN CAMPAIGN Bulletin #79: Pinellas County:
proponents duck debate again.



Prof Connett is quoted by Bryson: "'Teeth are the windows to the rest of the
body..." [The Fluoride Deception. 2004:219]

Dr. Limeback is quoted (same page): "'Dental fluorosis is a bio-marker for
systemic fluoride poisoning during early childhood'..."

Remember: Dr. Limeback is the fellow who says fluoridation is "totally
criminal."

REPORTING THE CRIME - anyone can report it. Pinellas County residents, if
you don't want to name Pick Talley and John Heilman, MD - then don't - but
at least report the crime. DOCUMENT your report so law enforcement can't
say later that they didn't know. Please copy me if you
report via email...

Here are the phone number and email address for the Pinellas County Child
Protection Investigation Division: General Information (727) 582-3819

http://www.co.pinellas.fl.us/sheriff...ontactmain.htm

I will cc Pinellas County Sheriff Child Protection Investigation Division
via

I will also cc the following Pinellas County Sheriff addressees:
;
;

;

;

;
;
;
;
;
;
;
;
; ;

;



WHO SHOULD REPORT?

Again, anyone MAY report - inside or outside of Pinellas County.

But Pinellas County MDs, dentists, nurses, and chiropractors are MANDATED to
report if they so much as SUSPECT child abuse.


Read The Fluoride Deception. Quote from it in your suspected child abuse
report.

Ask your dentist to read The Fluoride Deception and report. Ask your
chiropractor to read it and report. Ask your MD to read it and report.

All persons - licensed or not - who are serious about ending the poisoning
of water supplies nationwide should KEEP reporting until the toxic chemical
child abuse ends.



IS IT "IDIOTIC" TO REPORT FLUORIDATION AS CHILD ABUSE?

Some (most?) anti-fluoridation folks are going to say, "People will think we
are idiots if we report it as child abuse."

NEWSFLASH: Many (most?) people ALREADY think anti-fluoridation folks are
idiots. **I** used to think anti-fluoridation folks were idiots.

Well I never actually thought them idiots - I just thought them over-zealous
in their opposition to a highly diluted poison ("fluoride") that couldn't
really be all that toxic at low concentrations. Boy was I wrong!
Anti-fluoridation folks are NOT idiots and fluoride is NOT safe at low
concentrations. See The Fluoride Deception by Christopher Bryson. [2004]

Fortunately, the number of people who think anti-fluoridation folks are
idiots is dwindling. The Fluoride Deception will make that number dwindle
faster.

I think it is fantastic that anti-fluoride folks have long been informing
regulators of the facts.

I think it a "healthcare" abomination that local experts (like John Heilman,
MD and Pick Talley) have ignored anti-fluoridation folks - hence this post.

I think it is high time that the LAW ENFORCEMENT part of the executive
branch of government start hearing about mass child abuse being approved by
the legislative branch and regulatory parts of the executive branch...

Suspected child abuse reports are MANDATORY for health professionals who
suspect child abuse - but anyone may report.


FLUORIDATION IS INDEED MASS CHILD ABUSE...

Prof. Connett says that it will be very difficult for government officials
"to speak honestly" - but they must - "to protect millions of people from
unnecessary harm."
http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm

DENTAL FLUOROSIS vs. CRIPPLING SKELETAL FLUOROSIS...

Physically beating a child is known to produce external bruises and
sometimes terrible injuries inside the body...

CHEMICALLY beating a child (fluoridation) RATHER QUICKLY increases the
frequency of staining/mottling of tooth enamel (dental fluorosis), an
outward sign of terrible things happening inside the body.

The terrible things happen SLOWLY at the low fluoride concentrations in
drinking water...

For example, according to our own National Academy of Sciences, "crippling
SKELETAL fluorosis" may occur in 10 years' time by consuming 5 liters of
water per day at fluoride levels that are HALF the EPA's permissible level.

According to EPA's own estimates, 3% of Americans drink 5 liters of water
per day!

Who knows but that far less than 5 liters of water per day of 1ppm water
over a lifetime does the same thing - or causes skeletal fluorosis that
isn't crippling - but perhaps causes lesser effects?

There are a LOT of things fluoride may cause - cancer is one of them - hip
fractures is one - attention deficit hyperactivity disorder/ADHD is
another - autism is another - Alzheimer's is another...

READ The Fluoride Deception by Christopher Bryson. [2004]



THE DISNEYLAND DA

I mentioned fluoridation as child abuse to Disneyland DA Tony Rackauckas.

DA Tony got elected by a "chiropractic" attorney Michael J. Schroeder,
former chairman of the California Republican Party.

DA Tony may just listen to suspected child abuse reports from chiropractors.


I'm still hoping Orange County doctors of chiropractic will help.

See $25,000 for OC chiros for Disneyland antifluoridation work?
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2643

I will cc this post to Disneyland DA Tony and
via local newspapers:
and

I'm still hoping Disneyland DA Tony will go to court and stop fluoridation
at Disneyland before Prof. Connett's upcoming 1st Citizens' Conference on
Fluoride.

No word back from the UCLA chemistry department on whether they will be
using my $1000 donation to send someone to Prof. Connett's conference or to
fly Prof. Connett to lecture.

See The Disneyland DA and The Fluoride Deception...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2629





I've asked before and I'll ask again:

Are there ANY anti-fluoridation folks who think it's NOT toxic chemical
child abuse to put the toxic poison "fluoride" into the water supply?

No one has answered so far...

Dr. Connett, you have been silent on this point. Why?

Do you think putting the toxic poison "fluoride" into the water supply is
NOT child abuse?

If so, I would be happy to fly to Pinellas County to debate you on this
point at the July 8 Great Fluoride Debate. (As you indicate in your
Bulletin, it doesn't look like mass child abusers Pick Talley or John
Heilman, MD are going to show.)

In any debate we might have, I would of course be pointing out that
fluoridation is NOT the only form of mass child abuse actively supported by
"health" professionals...


OTHER CHILD ABUSE ACTIVELY SUPPORTED BY "HEALTH" PROFESSIONALS...

OBs are knowingly closing birth canals up to 30% and gruesomely (sometimes
fatally) manipulating most babies' spines at birth.

OBs are also routinely robbing babies of roughly half the blood they would
have transfused to themselves immediately after birth.

See Disneyland DA Rackauckas: *More* mass child abuse by OBs...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2644

See also: $25,000 for OC chiros for Disneyland antifluoridation work?
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2643


PREGNANT WOMEN: OBs are indeed knowingly closing birth canals up to 30%.

For simple PROOF - and simple instructions on how to allow your birth canal
to OPEN the "extra" up to 30%...

See I ain't no Semmelweis, but...
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2591

See also: ACOG birth crime video evidence
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2300


MAYBE **NOT** FLUORIDATING IS "TANTAMOUNT TO CHILD ABUSE"?

I just found this...I suspect it is propaganda...

"DOCTORS' leaders urged local authorities yesterday to introduce fluoride
into water supplies...dentists have described the levels of painful decay
suffered by some children as tantamount to child abuse."
--Sam Lister, June 16, 2004 Timesonline
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...147422,00.html

Yep, I think it's propaganda...

Bryson [2004:xix] writes: "A largely sympathetic official review of
fluoridation by the British government in 2000 found that...water
fluoridation may be responsible for 15 percent fewer cavities."

Some people think fluoride prevents cavities altogether!

On the same page, Bryson quotes the late Dr. John Colquhoun, the former
chief dental officer of Auckland, New Zealand, and a fluoride promoter
turned critic:

"How many cavities would have to be saved to justify the death of one man
from osteosarcoma?"


WHAT?! NOT USING SUNBLOCK IS CHILD ABUSE!

"Dad Charged For Not Using Enough Sunblock On 12-Year-Old...Boy Severely
Burned...CAPE MAY COURT HOUSE, N.J. -- A man has been charged with child
abuse for not applying enough sunblock to his 12-year-old son before a day
at the beach....Walter McKelvie Jr., 43, of Vineland, was indicted Tuesday
and charged with one count of child abuse and neglect in the July 20
incident, in which he took his mentally disabled son to the beach in
Wildwood...McKelvie told investigators he put sunblock on the boy, but the
indictment said he failed 'to apply enough sunscreen causing severe sunburn
to R.M.' while he had custody of him...If convicted, McKelvie could face up
to 18 months in prison."
http://www.local6.com/news/3349031/detail.html


*USING* SUNBLOCK IS CHILD ABUSE?

The conclusion might be surmised from the comments of Joseph Mercola, DO on
the just quoted "no sunblock is child abuse" article...

"This is a great opportunity for me to remind you how important it is to
protect your skin from sunburns, but sunblock is not the way! Sunblock can
increase your risk of cancer and is a toxic chemical...Sunblock products
claim to prevent sunburns but don't screen out harmful UVA light that causes
skin cancer. In fact, sunblock screens out UVB light that promotes the
natural generation of vitamin D."
http://www.mercola.com/2004/jun/12/sunblock_abuse.htm


Regardless whether we are slathering toxic chemical sun block on our
children's skin...

WHY are we putting poison in their drinking water?

Read the comments of all the European countries that have rejected this
practice...
http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm

WHAT A BIZARRE WORLD WE LIVE IN HERE IN AMERICA!

"BETTER LIVING THROUGH CHEMISTY" (I think that is what Disneyland's Monsanto
exhibit said years ago. Is that exhibit still there? Anyone know?)

While most European countries have rejected fluoridation...

Ireland has not...

See Disneyland's toxic drinking water (also: Bizarre Irish fluoride
blarney)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2636




Again, Prof. Connett says fluoridation is causing "unnecessary harm" to
"millions"...
http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm

Some of those millions are children.

Causing children unnecessary harm is CHILD ABUSE.

Why would we NOT report child abuse - assuming we believe poisoning
children's drinking water is child abuse...

Anti-fluoridators - you do agree that poisoning children's drinking water is
child abuse, right?

Again, Bryson [2004:xxi] recommends CITIZEN ACTION:

"[i]t is time to recognize the folly, hubris, and secret agendas that have
shackled us...poisoning our water...It is time...to speak truth to
power...It will be public opinion and citizen action that strike those
shackles free."

This citizen action (this email) is a SUSPECTED CHILD ABUSE REPORT being
sent to the Pinellas County (Florida) Sheriff via the email addresses listed
below.

While any citizen MAY report suspected child abuse to his or her county
sheriff...healthcare professionals are MANDATED to do so. Talk to your
dentist today.

Here now, is Prof. Connett publicly taking Pinellas Poisoners Heilman and
Talley to task for hiding instead of debating their own "facts"...

I hope Prof. Connett keeps trying to debate the child poisoners - but in the
meantime - I hope Prof. Connett will encourage people to join me in
reporting them for mass child abuse - or debate me on this issue on July
8th. (Let me know ASAP Paul - so I can buy a ticket to Florida in advance.)


THE FLUORIDE ACTION NETWORK
http://www.fluoridealert.org

FAN CAMPAIGN Bulletin #79: Pinellas County: proponents duck debate again.

July 3, 2004

Dear All,

Citizens in Pinellas County, angered by the County Commissioners' decision
to force fluoridation on country residents, have been trying over the last
few weeks to get the officials, on whose confident assurances they relied,
to participate in an open public debate with Dr. William Hirzy and myself.
These promoters include Pick Talley, director of the Pinellas County Water
System Utilities, Dr. Heilman, director of the Pinellas County Health
Department and Dr. Kasem, the Vice-president of the local Dental
Association.

Dr. Heilman was invited no less than three times to appear on a local radio
station to debate the issue -and he excused himself three times. Letters I
have sent to him have remain unanswered.

Dr. Kasem has shown no inclination to debate, even while he sends long (very
long) letters to the St. Petersburg Times proclaiming the virtues of the
practice with the usual hyperbole with respect to benefits and the usual
dismissal when it comes to health concerns.

Of the three Pick Talley has been most forthcoming in articulating his
reasons for refusing to debate. I have printed below the correspondence we
have had on this issue below, but first, I have printed today's St.
Petersburg Times article describing the event which is scheduled for this
coming Thursday July 8.

In the SPT article Mr. Talley expresses puzzlement that we should want to
come to Pinellas County to debate the issue when we could be making our case
to "higher officials" in NYC or Washington, DC. He may have been unaware
that Dr. Hirzy has given testimony on this very matter before a US Senate
committtee hearing, but he should have been aware that I also testified on
this matter in Washington. In one of my letters to him (see below) I pointed
out that my involvement in this issue included, "an invited presentation to
the National Research Council's panel investigating the toxicology of
fluoride in water in August, 2003."

Paul Connett
__________________________________________________ ____________
TODAY'S ARTICLE IN ST PETERSBURG TIMES (SECTION B)

http://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/03/Tampabay/County__Fluoridation_.shtmlhttp
://www.sptimes.com/2004/07/03/Tampabay/County__Fluoridation_.shtml

-----------------------------------
County: Fluoridation forum would really be a protest Pinellas officials say
the debate with fluoride opponents would serve no purpose. "The people that
oppose fluoride are going to oppose it no matter what I say," one official
says.

By MICHAEL SANDLER, Times Staff Writer Published July 3, 2004

----------------------------------------------------------------

CLEARWATER - It's being billed as "The Great Fluoride Debate." But only one
side is likely to make an argument.

Citizens for Safe Water, a political action committee formed last year by
fluoride opponents, has challenged Pinellas County officials to defend a
2003 decision to add fluoride to the county water supply.

The group has rented Harborview Center in Clearwater for the evening of July
8 and is flying in two chemistry experts to make the case against the
cavity-fighting chemical.

So far, county officials have declined. They say they are concerned the
group is staging a protest disguised as a civil discussion.

"We are not going to convince those opponents," said Pick Talley, the
county's utilities director.. "They are pretty set with their set of facts.
I don't think there is any public purpose to continue to debate the issue
when it shouldn't be decided by debate. It should be decided by scientific
fact."

Last month Pinellas officials began adding fluoride to the county's water
supply, which serves about 600,000 people. Pinellas officials say fluoride
in the water is proven to help fight tooth decay. St. Petersburg, Tampa and
Hillsborough County have been adding fluoride to their water for years, as
have communities serving more than 160-million people across the nation.

County officials say they relied on the advice of some of the nation's
leading health authorities, including the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention in Atlanta, the American Medical Association and the American
Water Works Association.

Dr. Paul Connett, a chemistry professor at St. Lawrence University in
Canton, N.Y., and William Hirzy, a senior scientist from the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency, are prepared to challenge that information.

"I have made a blanket offer to any community that is confronted with
fluoridation issues to come down and debate," Connett said by phone from his
office at the university. "But as you have probably discovered, the
proponents lack that confidence when anybody knows something about the
issue."

The two have challenged Talley and Dr. John Heilman, director of the county
health department. Both have declined.

Talley said the county allowed ample time for debate at public hearings
prior to last year's vote. Talley questioned why Connett and Hirzy have
decided to make their case in Pinellas, rather than with higher level public
health officials.

"One hundred and sixty million people are getting fluoride now,"Talley said.
"Why come to Pinellas and have the debate here, when he is a lot closer to
New York City or Washington, D.C.?"

Heilman said fluoride has been a "strong weapon" against tooth decay since
the 1940s and has been proven over time to be safe in small doses. "The
people that oppose fluoride are going to oppose it no matter what I say,"
Heilman said last month. "They certainly aren't going to convince me
otherwise."

Opponents say fluoride is dangerous, especially to children, and that there
are no health studies proving hydrofluorosilicic acid, the type of fluoride
being added in Pinellas, is safe. They say fluoride is the byproduct of the
phosphate fertilizer industry, a fact that both Talley and Heilman do not
dispute.

Peter Glickman, president of Citizens for Safe Water, and 14 others tried to
get the county's charter review commission to add language to the November
ballot that would ask voters to decide if they want fluoride in the water.
The committee declined, saying that was a proper policy decision for the
county commissioners.

He said he hopes the county will see the value in a spirited debate.

"If I had it in my power, I'd love for them to send the very best people who
propose fluoride," Glickman said. "I wish they could fly someone in from the
CDC. We really want the best from both sides so some conclusion can be
reached."

Connett teaches environmental chemistry and toxicology and uses fluoridation
to illustrate the intersection of "science and politics." He and other
members of the St. Lawrence faculty convinced the community in Canton, N.Y.
to stop fluoridating the water last year.

"When we have a chance to talk with people who have an open mind, we win
hands down," Connett said. "What's difficult is when people have a closed
mind."

County Administrator Steve Spratt said he is concerned about the structure,
saying he's not certain he wants to subject anyone representing the county
to what may be a hostile environment.

Glickman said he has contacted the League of Women Voters, hoping they can
send a moderator. He has yet to receive confirmation.

"What is the agenda? How is it supposed to work?" Spratt asked. "If it's a
demonstration, a protest event, we will have to weigh that with what kind of
contribution we can make."
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Connett's correspondence with Pick Talley, Director, Pinellas County
Utilities.

The sequence of letters.

1) Connett's challenge to Talley, June 25.
2) Talley's response to Connett's challenge, June 28.
3) Connett's response to Talley's refusal to debate, June 28.
4) Talley's response, June 29.
5) Connett's final letter, June 29.

All correspondence was copied to the Commissioners and Dr. Heilman.

And for the record:

6) Talley's opinion piece in the St. Petersburg Times, June 10.
7) Connett's letter to the editor responding to Mr. Talley's opinion piece,
June 11(unpublished).
________________________________________________

1) Connett's challenge to Talley, June 25.

Dear Mr. Tally,

It has just been brought to my attention that you may be unaware that
I have publicly challenged you to defend the practice of water
fluoridation in an open public debate. My challenge went to you in a
letter I sent to the St. Petersburg Times on June 11, in response to
your comments published in this same paper on June 10. I thought on
such a major issue that the SPT would feel obliged to print my
letter. I was wrong -they did not.

However, I am serious about this invitation. Moreover, I am sure
based upon the confidence that you have in this measure that you will
not find it difficult to marshall your arguments in a formal debate.
Failing that I would assume that you can find someone from the many
authorities you cite in support of this measure to fill your place.

This same debate challenge has been issued several times to Dr. John
Hileman. Perhaps the two of you can combine as a team in this matter.
If so then we could make it a two versus two debate with William
Hirzy, Ph.D joining the side opposed to fluoridation. In getting
your two person team together I am sure Dr. Kasem the President of
Upper Pinellas Dental Association (phone 727-796-2183) would be most
helpful in this matter.

I am sure you would agree that in a democratic society that when a
public health issue reaches this level of controversy, the public is
best served when they hear information from experts on both sides of
the matter with the opportunity for fair exchange and rebuttal.

I look forward to hearing from you on this matter. Below I have
printed a short biographical sketch of myself and the letter I sent
to the SPT.

Paul Connett.
__________________________________________________ ________________

2) Talley's response to Connett's challenge, June 28.


Dr. Paul Connett:

I received your email inviting me to be part of a team to debate
fluoridation of public water supplies. As you know, Pinellas County
joined the majority of United States urban water supplies by instituting
fluoridation earlier this month. I would never recommend that any public
water agency adjust its treatment processes based on the outcome of a
debate. It is not possible in a public debate to authenticate the
validity of ones "facts", or establish whether stated facts are
recognized by the medical/scientific community. Such public debate
using unaccepted "facts" can unnecessarily alarm the public. For these
reasons, I decline your offer.

There are larger public utilities in your state, a lot closer to your
home, that are fluoridating water. I would suggest you approach one of
them.

Very truly yours,

Pick Talley
Director of Utilities
PINELLAS COUNTY UTILITIES
(727) 464-3438 Tel
(727) 464-4152 Fax

__________________________________________________ ______________

3) Connett's response to Talley's refusal to debate, June 28.

Mr. Talley,

You completely miss the point of my challenge to debate. The "facts" in
question are those that you have shared with the commissioners --the ones
you used to assure them of the safety and effectiveness of water
fluoridation. These are the "facts" that need to be scrutinized. I do not
believe the public should allow you the luxury of claiming all the "facts"
to yourself and claim that yours and yours alone are "recognized by the
medical/scientific community."

As the commissioners have gone ahead with this archaic practice based upon
your set of facts and assurances, then you should be obliged to demonstrate
that you understand those facts and can support those assurances, and that
you are completely up-to-date on the matter. I hold a doctorate in Chemistry
and I have spent the last 8 years doing
independent research on the scientific literature on fluoride's toxicity and
water fluoridation. This involvement included an invited presentation to the
National Research Council's panel investigating the toxicology of fluoride
in water in August, 2003. I think I know a little more about the "facts" on
this matter than you do and have concluded that your refusal to debate is
based upon your fear that your lack of knowledge will be exposed. Hopefully,
neither the taxpayers nor the commissioners of Pinellas County will put up
with your arrogant posture.

In short, you are not protecting the public from 'fear' as you suggest, but
from their finding out the truth. In a democracy that is far more
frightening.

Unfortunately, you have put your trust in authorities upon which one can
normally rely for health matters. For most health issues this would be a
reasonable thing to do, but in the case of water fluoridation your
confidence is sadly misplaced. Ever since the US Public Health Service
endorsed fluoridation in 1950 (before one single fluoridation trial had been
completed!) it has been part of their agenda to defend this policy at all
costs - costs which include the long-term health of the American people as
well as their right to informed consent to medication. However, the best and
most rational way to resolve this is for you to find spokespersons from any
of the agencies on which you rely to defend their assurances themselves. If
you cannot do so I am afraid it puts both their position and yours in
serious doubt. Certainly, it should not provide the confidence for others to
put a known toxic substance into the drinking water of every man woman and
child in your community at levels which are up to 200 times the
concentration found naturally in mothers' milk.

I urge you again to find someone from the agencies in which you have put
your trust to defend the science on which their endorsement of fluoridation
is based.

Finally, to quote the French writer Joseph Joubert, " 'Tis better to debate
a question without settling it than to settle a question without debating
it."

Sincerely,

Dr. Paul Connett

__________________________________________________ ________________________
4) Talley's response, June 29.


Dr. Connett,

I an not persuaded by your reply to alter my position as stated in my
previous email.

Very truly yours,


Pick Talley
Director of Utilities
PINELLAS COUNTY UTILITIES
(727) 464-3438 Tel
(727) 464-4152 Fax

_________________________________________________

5) Connett's final letter to Talley, June 29.

Dear Mr. Talley,

Your unwillingness to defend your position in public on such a serious
issue, in which you have been a key player, is very disturbing to me. The
willingness to promote something -with enormous confidence -without being
familiar with the details appears to a be frequent characteristic of
fluoridation promoters and is merely a continuation of the advice contained
in a White Paper distributed by the American Dental Association in 1978,
where they wrote:

"Individual dentists must be convinced that they need not be familiar with
scientific reports of laboratory and field investigations on fluoridation to
be effective participants in the promotion program and that nonparticipation
is overt neglect of professional responsibility."

I assume that the same advice has been given to Utility Directors like
yourself. I also assume that your position is not an elected one, because I
doubt very much that the voters of Pinellas County would tolerate such an
arrogant posture, and I define arrogance as "ignorance backed up with
over-confidence."

Sincerely,

Paul Connett

__________________________________________________ ____________


AND FOR THE RECORD

Here is Pick Talley's OPINION PIECE in the St. Petersburg Times June 10,
2004, and my unpublished letter in response (June 11).


6) Health agencies offer solid support on fluoridation

Letters to the Editor
Published June 10, 2004

This is to address the letters appearing in your paper questioning the
County Commission's decision to fluoridate Pinellas County's public water
supply.

To my knowledge, Pinellas County Utilities is the largest water utility in
the southeastern United States that was not fluoridating its water supply.
Approximately 163-million U.S. residents receive fluoridated water in the
public water supply of their community.

Fluoridation began in public water supplies in the United States in 1945.
Since that time, there has been an enormous amount of research on the health
effects and benefits of fluoridation. Fluoridation has been found to benefit
the general public by the reduction of size and number of dental cavities,
particularly in children. There has been an enormous amount of research on
the potential health effects of adding fluoride to the public water supply.
These studies recognized by the mainstream medical and regulatory
authorities have not identified deleterious health effects for the general
population.

The following organizations either recommend or support the addition of
fluoride to public water supplies for the benefit of public health: World
Health Organization, Centers for Disease Control, American Medical
Association, National Science Foundation, Florida Department of Health,
American Cancer Society, U.S. surgeon general, American Heart Association,
American Association of Public Health Dentistry, American Academy of
Pediatrics, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Environmental
Protection Agency, American Public Health Association, American Dental
Hygienists Association, International Association for Dental Research and
the Pinellas County Health Department.

In August 2003, the County Commission reviewed a request from the state and
county health departments to fluoridate the water supply for the beneficial
health of its residents. The commission reviewed the reports and
recommendations of many of the organizations listed above. The commission
held a public hearing at which residents for and against fluoridation gave
testimony.

The commission also reviewed a survey of 737 customers of the county water
system. Fifty-one percent of the customers surveyed supported fluoridation,
12 percent opposed and 37 percent did not know or had no opinion. The
commission decided, based on the overwhelming preponderance of information
provided, that Pinellas County's public water supply should be fluoridated
for the benefit of its residents.

There are a number of misunderstandings among those who have written in
opposition. Additional information that may be helpful in reviewing this
issue:

We cannot find any record of a referendum for Pinellas County Utilities on
the issue of fluoridation of the county water supply.

The toxicity of fluoride is no more of a threat to humans in the
concentrations included in a public water supply than other chemicals that
are added to the water supply for the protection of public health.

There have been no reports of the alleged health concerns (mentioned by)
those who oppose fluoridation in the communities around us or across the
United States, where fluoridation has been a common practice for many years.

The county does no original research on the materials it uses to treat its
water to improve the public health reliability of its supply. It relies on
the advice of those agencies that have the best expertise and resources in
the world to make these determinations. Only those materials meeting the
most stringent scientific analysis are used, as recommended by those
agencies.

Reports and studies that allege public health risks from fluoridation should
go through the same level of scrutiny by agencies such as the Centers for
Disease Control and the National Academy of Sciences to prove the validity
of their results. Should these studies stand up to strict scientific
protocols, then those agencies would notify the public and the public
utilities of potential concerns.

Readers who may have concern about fluoridation should direct their
questions to the agencies listed above for specific health information.


-- Pick Talley, director, Pinellas County Water System Utilities
__________________________________________________ ____________________

7) Connett's letter to the editor responding to Mr. Talley's opinion piece,
June 11, 2004. It is interesting to note that when I spoke to Mike Sadler
who wrote today's piece in the SPT he said that he had read this letter,
even though it was not published.

Letters-to-the-Editor, (not-published)

St. Petersburg Times,

June 11, 2004.

Dear Editor,

I would like to respond to Pick Talley's letter to the editor of June 10. In
this letter Mr. Talley, the director of the Pinellas County Water System
Utilities, defends the the County Commission's decision to fluoridate
Pinellas County's public water supply.

Mr. Talley begins by pointing out that "Approximately 163-million U.S.
residents receive fluoridated water" but fails to point out that this
represents over half of those drinking artificially fluoridated water
worldwide. The vast majority of countries do not fluoridate their water, and
yet according to figures readily available on the web site of the World
Health Organization, children's teeth in non-fluoridated industrialized
countries are just as good, if not better, than American children's teeth.

As far as America is concerned the largest survey conducted in the US
indictated a saving of less than one tooth surface out of 128 tooth surfaces
in a child's mouth for children living in fluoridated communities compared
to non-fluoridated ones and even this miniscule difference was not shown to
be statistically significant (Brunelle and Carlos, 1990).

Mr. Talley continues by stating that since 1945 there have been enormous
number of studies which have demonstrated the safety of the practice, and
yet the largest review of these studies todate found not one could be given
a grade A quality rating (McDonagh et al., 2000).

To point out just one of many concerns with the research conducted todate is
the almost total absence of data of fluoride bone levels of the American
people. This despite the fact that we know that 50% of each speck of
fluoride consumed each day from water and other sources concentrates there
and that the first symptoms of fluoride's well documented damage to bone and
ligaments is identical to arthritis (DHHS, 1991). According to the CDC(2002)
1 in 3 Americans are now suffering from arthritis. We are flying blind on a
possible connection to lifelong exposure to fluoride with this and several
other key ailments, including a possible connection to Alzheimers Disaease
(Varner et al, 1998) and the lowering of IQ in children (Xiang et al, 2003).

Mr. Talley cites a long list of organizations which support fluoridation,
but fails to point out that this list was highly predictable once the US
Public Health Service gave its premature but enthusiastic support to
fluoridation in 1950, before one trial had been completed. Nor does Mr.

Talley acknowledge that not one of these organizations is prepared to field
someone to defend their position in an open public debate on the matter even
when invited to do so by organizations such as the American College of
Toxicology and the US EPA.

If Mr. Talley doubts this assertion let him find someone to debate the issue
with me. I would be happy to come down to Pinellas County and present my
concerns; concerns, which are based on a careful eight year review of the
scientific literature.

Meanwhile, those who are interested in checking some of the details can
review my arguments at

http://www.fluoridealert.org/50reasons.htm
http://www.fluoridealert.org/50r
easons.htm

Water fluoridation started in a different age. It is time to follow the lead
of most European countries and put an end to the absurd notion of using the
public water supply to deliver medication, whether individuals agree to the
practice or not. Forcing such a practice on people takes governmental
arrogance to a whole new level, especially when those who support the
measure most vocally are totally incapable of defending the measure on a
public platform.

How about it Mr. Talley, can you find someone to debate with me on this?

Dr. Paul Connett,
Professor of Chemistry,
St. Lawrence University,
Canton, NY 13617
315-379-9200

__________________________________________________ _____________________

END Dr. Paul Connett's FAN CAMPAIGN Bulletin #79: Pinellas County:

proponents duck debate again.

Copied to: Pick Talley
Director of Utilities
PINELLAS COUNTY UTILITIES
(727) 464-3438 Tel
(727) 464-4152 Fax


Dr. Paul Connett,
Professor of Chemistry,
St. Lawrence University,
Canton, NY 13617
315-379-9200


Three last matters...

1. Prof. Connett said to Pick Talley...

"Unfortunately, you have put your trust in authorities upon which one can
normally rely for health matters. For most health issues this would be a
reasonable thing to do..."

If Prof. Connett is referring to modern "scientific" medicine - his
statement may not be true. It is a fact that most surgical behaviors of
modern medicine are rather obvious crimes. For example, in their most
frequent surgical behavior toward women, OBs are slicing vaginas en masse
(euphemism "routine episiotomy") - surgically/fraudulently claiming they are
doing everything possible to OPEN birth canals - even as they CLOSE birth
canals - up to 30%.

OBs are also slicing ABDOMENS en masse (euphemism "c-section") -
surgically/fraudulently claiming they have DONE everything possible to open
birth canals even as they close birth canals up to 30%.

Most surgical behaviors (numerically speaking) are obvious crimes - and the
vagina slicing causes the most hospital admissions in America!!

See See Criminal medical CAM at Hawai'i's John A Burns School of Medicine
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...t/message/2256


2. Confucius say: "Man who fart in church sit in own pew."

Who is "farting in church" here?

Me (for suggesting that children must be finally given the protection of the
child abuse statutes)?

Or the yes-men expert public officials (Heilman and Talley) who are
chemically beating children - blindly relying on obvious fraud as they
poison the water supply?

The answer seems obvious to me - but I am sincerely interested in hearing
the reasoning of any antifluoridation folks who don't think poisoning
children's water should be reported as child abuse.

Prof. Connett says: "For those who would call for further studies, I say
fine. Take the fluoride out of the water first and then conduct all the
studies you want. This folly must end without further delay."
http://www.fluoridealert.org/50-reasons.htm

I would say to the anti-fluoridation folks: First do the minimum required
by law when children are being poisoned - REPORT - THEN debate - and keep
reporting the child abuse until it ends.


3. As usual, I am in favor of pardons in advance for MDs. MDs are just
academic prime cuts forced through this culture's most powerful mental
meatgrinder - medical school.

I don't want to see Pick and John punished. I just want them to stop
chemically beating children.

Sincerely,

Todd

Dr. Gastaldo


Today is Independence Day. We are now reportedly independent of Britain.

British Broadcasting Corp. reporter Christopher Bryson is helping us gain
our independence from toxic phosphate fertilizer waste polluters.

Happy 4th of July everyone. I hope that July 8 Great Fluoride Debate is
productive. Please don't fail to do what is the MINIMUM required of health
professionals when child abuse is so much as suspected:

REPORT. Pinellas County child protection email is
.
ANYone can report. Please copy me todd@chiromotion if you report. Thanks.


This email will be archived for global access within 24 hours in the Google
usenet groups archive. Search
http://groups.google.com for "Chemically
beating children: Pinellas Poisoners Heilman and Talley.


 




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