evening fussiness and long rem stage

Margaret seems a lot more "twitchy" than my first baby. She startles easily
and takes a long time to enter deep sleep from rem sleep. When she's in rem
sleep she often startles at nothing - I wonder if she has those "I'm
falling" dreams that jerk you awake just as you are dropping off. It seems
to take much more than the typical 20 minutes, I've often rocked or walked
her for much longer and she's still drifting in and out of a light sleep.

I'd like to start putting her in her crib for the first sleep of the night
which tends to be longer, generally 3 hours now sometimes a bit more, but
this is the worst time for getting her in a deep sleep. I'd love to nurse
her down, but it just doesn't work for her, at least not in the evening.

For starters she generally has a screaming fit around this time, I go down
the checklist and she's fed, burped, clean, comfy, and being held, but
still unhappy. I'm pretty sure she's tired but overstimulated by the
evening routine of getting dinner on for myself and her 2 1/2 year-old
older sister, then getting the sister into bed which generally involves a
lot of squirming and squealing. DH comes home from work around DD1's
bedtime, but if he's a little late I have to juggle the baby during the
whole routine and it really winds her up

I used to nurse DD1 down then just rock till she reached the rag-doll stage
and put her in her crib, but DD2 rarely falls asleep at the breast unless
she was already half asleep when she started. When she's done eating her
eyes open and she wants to look around and play. Novelty amuses her and
nothing else will do.

At this point I can keep her from crying only by changing her position
every couple of minutes, but that just postpones the inevitable snit,
potentially for hours while she gets tireder and harder to
please. Eventually I just get too tired and sit and rock her in my arms
while she arches and shrieks until she conks out. At this point she sleeps
very lightly so while I'd be happy to sit next to my husband and just hold
her, she keeps waking up at every noise or jostle and sometimes starts
crying all over again. She only settles if I take her to our bed and lie
down with her. By the time she's deep enough asleep to leave her there I'm
asleep too which is a little frustrating because it leaves zero time for
talking with my husband. From there it's pretty easy though, she wakes 2 or
3 times for a feed and settles right back down. I haven't had the nerve to
try moving her to the crib in the middle of the night. FWIW I've gotten her
to nap there in the daytime pretty regularly, it's the evening that's just
rough.

Wearing her down in the sling sometimes works, but she still doesn't go
down deep enough to out down for longer than a few minutes, even when she
seems completely limp and I just ooze out of the sling leaving it around
her, she wakes very soon and kind of ticked off so we start all over again.

So, thanks if you've made it this far. Does this sound like any of your
babies? Did you find any other strategies that worked? I really don't want
to be co-sleeping long-term, we're doing it now for the extra sleep but
we're going to be needing our baby-free time and space back for our sanity.

-Liz

"Liz S. Reynolds" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty sure she's tired but overstimulated by the
evening routine of getting dinner on for myself and her 2 1/2 year-old
older sister, then getting the sister into bed which generally involves a
lot of squirming and squealing. DH comes home from work around DD1's
bedtime, but if he's a little late I have to juggle the baby during the
whole routine and it really winds her up

My DD used to get very overstimulated and overtired in the evenings too. It
just gets worse and worse the later it gets.

Would it be possible for you to put the baby to bed before her older sister,
so that she's not as tired, or would the noise of the older one going to bed
wake her up?

Lucy

Liz S. Reynolds wrote:
So, thanks if you've made it this far. Does this sound like any of
your babies? Did you find any other strategies that worked?

Are you swaddling her? I must say that swaddling always seemed to work
wonders for preventing my babies from waking up from the "twitchiness" you
descibe.
--
Be well, Barbara
(Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [22 mos.] mom)

This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
"Taxi's R Us" -- name of a cab company

Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

In article ,
Lucy wrote:
"Liz S. Reynolds" wrote in message
...
I'm pretty sure she's tired but overstimulated by the
evening routine of getting dinner on for myself and her 2 1/2 year-old
older sister, then getting the sister into bed which generally involves a
lot of squirming and squealing. DH comes home from work around DD1's
bedtime, but if he's a little late I have to juggle the baby during the
whole routine and it really winds her up

My DD used to get very overstimulated and overtired in the evenings too. It
just gets worse and worse the later it gets.

Would it be possible for you to put the baby to bed before her older sister,
so that she's not as tired, or would the noise of the older one going to bed
wake her up?

If she fell asleep in the sling I could do that, but I can't leave the
older one unattended long enough to walk/rock/nurse her down in a quiet
room.

-Liz

In article dEiLb.103459$pY.53000@fed1read04, Circe wrote:
Liz S. Reynolds wrote:
So, thanks if you've made it this far. Does this sound like any of
your babies? Did you find any other strategies that worked?

Are you swaddling her? I must say that swaddling always seemed to work
wonders for preventing my babies from waking up from the "twitchiness" you
descibe.

I stopped because I though she was too hot swaddled in my arms or the
sling, and it's definitly to hot for our toasty bed. Of course if it worked
she'd be in her own bed till she woke, hmmm.

So how to tell if she's too hot or just cozy if she's screaming whether or
not she's bundled up?

-Liz

The only things that I would try that I don't see you mention is to swaddle
her so she doesn't get "twitchy." Try starting her bedtime ritual earlier
because it sounds like she is overstimulated and overtired. The other thing,
since every little noise wakes her, how about rocking her in the room she
sleeps in with the lights dimmed low and putting a fan in the room to block
out noise and create white noise. Soft music could also be played if she
wouldn't get too worked up. Good luck. )
--
Sue (mom to three girls)
I'm Just a Raggedy Ann in a Barbie Doll World...

Liz S. Reynolds wrote in message
...
Margaret seems a lot more "twitchy" than my first baby. She startles
easily
and takes a long time to enter deep sleep from rem sleep. When she's in
rem
sleep she often startles at nothing - I wonder if she has those "I'm
falling" dreams that jerk you awake just as you are dropping off. It seems
to take much more than the typical 20 minutes, I've often rocked or walked
her for much longer and she's still drifting in and out of a light sleep.

I'd like to start putting her in her crib for the first sleep of the night
which tends to be longer, generally 3 hours now sometimes a bit more, but
this is the worst time for getting her in a deep sleep. I'd love to nurse
her down, but it just doesn't work for her, at least not in the evening.

For starters she generally has a screaming fit around this time, I go down
the checklist and she's fed, burped, clean, comfy, and being held, but
still unhappy. I'm pretty sure she's tired but overstimulated by the
evening routine of getting dinner on for myself and her 2 1/2 year-old
older sister, then getting the sister into bed which generally involves a
lot of squirming and squealing. DH comes home from work around DD1's
bedtime, but if he's a little late I have to juggle the baby during the
whole routine and it really winds her up

I used to nurse DD1 down then just rock till she reached the rag-doll
stage
and put her in her crib, but DD2 rarely falls asleep at the breast unless
she was already half asleep when she started. When she's done eating her
eyes open and she wants to look around and play. Novelty amuses her and
nothing else will do.

At this point I can keep her from crying only by changing her position
every couple of minutes, but that just postpones the inevitable snit,
potentially for hours while she gets tireder and harder to
please. Eventually I just get too tired and sit and rock her in my arms
while she arches and shrieks until she conks out. At this point she sleeps
very lightly so while I'd be happy to sit next to my husband and just hold
her, she keeps waking up at every noise or jostle and sometimes starts
crying all over again. She only settles if I take her to our bed and lie
down with her. By the time she's deep enough asleep to leave her there I'm
asleep too which is a little frustrating because it leaves zero time for
talking with my husband. From there it's pretty easy though, she wakes 2
or
3 times for a feed and settles right back down. I haven't had the nerve to
try moving her to the crib in the middle of the night. FWIW I've gotten
her
to nap there in the daytime pretty regularly, it's the evening that's just
rough.

Wearing her down in the sling sometimes works, but she still doesn't go
down deep enough to out down for longer than a few minutes, even when she
seems completely limp and I just ooze out of the sling leaving it around
her, she wakes very soon and kind of ticked off so we start all over
again.

So, thanks if you've made it this far. Does this sound like any of your
babies? Did you find any other strategies that worked? I really don't want
to be co-sleeping long-term, we're doing it now for the extra sleep but
we're going to be needing our baby-free time and space back for our
sanity.

-Liz

Liz S. Reynolds wrote:
In article dEiLb.103459$pY.53000@fed1read04, Circe
wrote:
Liz S. Reynolds wrote:
So, thanks if you've made it this far. Does this sound like any of
your babies? Did you find any other strategies that worked?

Are you swaddling her? I must say that swaddling always seemed to
work wonders for preventing my babies from waking up from the
"twitchiness" you descibe.

I stopped because I though she was too hot swaddled in my arms or the
sling, and it's definitly to hot for our toasty bed. Of course if it
worked she'd be in her own bed till she woke, hmmm.

Well, I woudln't swaddle her in the sling--that'd definitely be too warm.
But anywhere else, she certainly can be swaddled in light material. I found
that the top sheet for a toddler bed (flat sheet the size of a crib sheet)
worked great for swaddling in warm weather. Keep in mind that you can also
swaddle her wearing *just* a diaper--she doesn't *have* to wear anything
else.

So how to tell if she's too hot or just cozy if she's screaming
whether or not she's bundled up?

I usually felt the back of the neck. If it was sweaty, I figured baby was
too warm.