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Teleflora Calling...oh, Pinenut...Teleflora Calling.
(Fern5827) wrote in message ...
Subject: | Juveniles now face tougher laws and adult sentences From: (Fern5827) Date: 11/16/2003 8:51 PM Eastern Standard Time Message-id: Unfortunately, Kane, the stats do NOT confirm your pet musings. I notice at the end of this post you accuse me of not posting referrences, while claiming you do. Do you have a citation to prove your claim that "the stats do NOT confirm" my "pet musings"? You made the claim...now back it up or be known for the fool you are. But, oddly I do exactly that in many posts. I post academic and research citations, often in full or part with full access tools to allow the reader to go to the source. You are either blind as the Eye in a Potato, or you are stupid, or you are a liar, or [D] all of the above. Which is it? Parents are NOT punishing children as nearly as harshly as when I was a child. That's not what CPS and the DOJ report. The abuses that parents like to call punishment are resulting in horrific hotplate shaped burns on children's little bodies, marks of electric appliance cords imbedded in their flesh, brains slammed against brain pans to the point of enfeebling the child for life, teen treatment centers full of "spanked" teens that have become enraged at their parents treatment of them and are ready to take it out on the world, and other nice little parental gifts. Take a peek at this list from a google: http://tinyurl.com/vjqu Do you seriously want me to quote and cite all this data on child abuse? The fact it exists shows you to be a liar, Lycopodiella inundata. By the way, you tried that sly little Cabbage trick again didn't you? I didn't say children were being more HARSHLY punished (though I do know it to be true) but simply a lot. Spankings and RIGID, PUNITVE punishments are DOWN. And I agree largely with the trend. See the cited URL above...`taint so, Tater. Law enforcement agencies report teen crime down though, even though the number of actions that have become teen crimes are way up. Odd isn't it? To what do you attribute this outcome...more spanking or less? I think your confusion could be confusing to others, or is that your goal...to obfuscate? Parents should NOT use spanking as a normal method of instructing children in the proper way to behave. Your statement is a midleading, contemptable, bald face lie, Lingonberry. You have repeatedly defended spanking as an acceptable and protected right of parents. alt.spanking.parenting is full of such posts of yours. Would you like me to respond to your demand that I post "stats" by going to archives and running up your aps posts for all to see? I particularly love your post defending the right of parents to have church members string up their children and with the parents permission beat them with objects. But there are plenty of other times you defend unequivocally the right to do such things to children. As I recall you even have been known to say the same about schools, claiming that the crime and violence in schools is a result of teachers NOT being able to freely "discipline" children. I even keep a few on my own server to show to folks in child welfare. They certainly do cackle at the likes of you. YOU keep them going. So much for being a reformer, Rhus diversiloba....R R R Much of this is the result of abusive and neglectful parenting. Families that do not use punitive parenting methods simply don't have the kinds and level of problems that neglectful punitive parents have with their children. However, parents have no *bag of tricks* left when spanking is ILLEGALIZED. Are you suggesting that without spanking, parents only have a bag of tricks as an option, or that that non-punitive parenting consists of just a bag of tricks, or that such "tricks" don't work? Or that spanking HAS to be an option when parents run out of other things to do? (MY WORD-- Your "WORD" is worth about the energy it takes to the create the squiggles on my monitor screen to read it from. You are a known habitual liar. Spanking is still LEGAL in every state of the Union) You got my post on this I trust. One state is leading the flock into the light...Minnesota. LaVonne's state I think. They leave a giant hole through which to prosecute spankers. And nearly half the states forbid, legally, the CP of children in out schools, public and private. Don't it just make your Blooms Wilt? Reference : UNITED STATES SUPREME COURT. Holding in Ingraham v Wright Your referance is without source. I don't look up others references. If you wish any credibility at all you will cite and source. That means quote, dummy, and provide access by URL. And yes, of course I've read it, but this proves once again you are a misleading piece of lying **** as you obfusticate the reader hoping they won't look and find out for themselves that this referance of yours is NOT to the poitn we are discussing. Parents who are democratic and who are fortunate enough to have a child who is amenable to discussion and can get through with talking, time-outs, etc. Every child is amenable if they are not in some way disabled, either by genetics, or by the failure of nurturance by the parent. You are suggesting that the child be hit for the failings of the parent. But then we knew that and have for years. However, to cede authority over the state cadre of untrained, uncaring DYFS workers (as in NJ), which by the way Gelles predicted that a tragedy would ensue with this agency, was tragically borne out in October. But that isn't the objective. The objective is for you lying vicious little ****s to wake up BEFORE that can happen to you. Those that don't, have that happen. They bring it upon themselves. They are, ecven then, offered a chance to change their ways and take up the services offered, but the public is getting rather tired of the bull**** they throw up and the burden they create on the pocketbook of the public...hence, CAPTA and ASFA. Less time, more action, seems to be the wish of the public. More and more teens are now INCARCERATED IN PRISONS doing adult time. The DOJ is lying to me? Or they are being emprisoned for NOT doing crimes? And they do face much tougher laws and consequences for minor infractions. E.g., boys wrestling on a schoolyard, inadvertantly carrying a steak knife in their trunk to school. We are ceding authority over to *others.* Who, exactly are the "others" we cede to? Government is SO GOOD AT THAT. Who is "Government" exactly? Much of what they do is worthless job creation for folks who majored in the SS. The public seems to want the job done. Are you addressing CPS or are you addressing the public? If the latter what are you doing here? This forum hardly consists of a "public" in the sense it is infintessimly small in number, and highly biased in viewpoint. So which paper can we hope to see your meanderings in and how soon? Kane blows hard without any scholarly references other than his fantasies: Your nose is getting awfully long. Are you completely unaware that anyone can hit on my name in my addy and learn otherwise? Tsk. I guess you are so above it all you don't have to care when caught lying yet again. Much of this is the result of abusive and neglectful parenting. Families that do not use punitive parenting methods simply don't have the kinds and level of problems that neglectful punitive parents have with their children. Prove it. Take a walk in a prison. Tell you what. Let's you and I set up a meeting and I'll walk you through. I have lots of corrections administration level aquaintances that will arrange it for us. Juvenile as well as adult prisons. I'm sure we could ask the inmates anything we wished vis a vis their childhood. What do YOU think they are going to say? I once interviewed, as a part of a situation I was working on with relatives who adopted...r r r...that surprize you?....(a huge amount of my work has been helping relatives who adopt kin) a psychiatrist in a mental hospital for inmates. Criminally insane among other little problems like child rapist etc. I asked "the question," how many of the inmates showed in their medical information questionaires having been spanked as children. He looked at me like I was out of my mind, replying, "What makes you think any wouldn't have been?" As a therapist he found it universal in his patients....even the non-insane. Kinda interesting eh? Want to talk with him? I'll put you in touch if he agrees. Where might he meet or mail you? Somewhere. As it is this is just another example of your blowhard hot air. Researchers for decades have been unable to find any significant number of folks in mental hospitals, prisons, juvenile lockups, that had escaped childhood CP. And your insistence on this matter shows exactly that. Why did you bother to claim that there are less harsh methods being used when the evidence is so overwhelming? Why would you ask for proof for something that is in the public domain and common knowledge? Are you that sheltered? As for your higher juvenile crime rate claims: For instance, with your claim that parental abusive disciplining going down, how do you explain the follow from this chart below? Table BEH4.B Serious violent juvenile crime rate: Number and rate of serious crimes involving youth ages 12 to 17, 1980-99 Characteristic 1980 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 Violent Cr. Rt 34 40 33 33 33 30 29 31 34 33 39 39 44 51 47 36 35 30 26 26 (tenths removed for alignment) Notice the rate in 93, and then the steady decline to 99. Do you think it's gone up since 99? http://www.childstats.gov/ac2001/xbeh4b.asp The same ratio is true for the "serious (non-violent) crime" rate to 1998. In fact the rate is half of the 1994 rate in just the ensuing few years. http://www.childstats.gov/ac2000/xbeh4b.asp And then there is that annoying old DOJ data problem for you: The U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) reported on a variety of statistics including new crime statistics releasedin mid-December which showed a decrease for the 6th straight year. The rate of decrease of various categories of crime for juveniles we • 68% decrease in juvenile arrest rate for murder from '93 to '99, lowest since 1966; • 36% decrease in violent crime arrests from '94 to'99, lowest since 1988; • 31% decrease in rape from ‘94 to '99, lowest since 1980; • 53% decrease in robbery from '94 to '99, lowestsince 1980; • 39% decrease in arrest rate for weapons law violationsfrom, lowest since 1988; • 24% decrease in aggravated assault from '94 to '99,lowest since 1989; • 23% drop in juvenile arrest rate for property crime'97 to '99. Juvenile Justice CenterSuffolk University Law School at: http://www.law.suffolk.edu/academic/...ltr/issue4.pdf And to bring you even closer, a DOJ report for 2002-03. The data of course is collected from 2001. I hartily recommend you and your Drupe buddies read this entire page. It is very enlightening about who does what to whom...and it children that are the victims of adult more than the reverse...as it always has been..hence the creating and continuation of CPS: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict_c.htm "School violence In 2001, Students age 12 through 18 were victims of about 161,000 serious violent crimes at school, and about 290,000 away from school. Between 1992 and 2001 victimization rates at school and away from school declined. In 1993, 1995, 1997, 1999, and 2001 about 7 to 9 percent of students in grades 9 to 12 reported being threatened or injured with a weapon such as a gun, knife, or club on school property in the past 12 months. In 2001, about 6% of students carried a weapon such as a gun, knife, or club on school property in the past 30 days, a decline from 12% in 1993. Sixteen school-associated homicides were of school age children between July 1, 1999 and June 30, 2000. In 2001, 20% of students reported the presence of street gangs in their schools." Note that though violence among youth is still a problem (and that was true in this country in the 1600's to the present, - Hell, Ben Franklin had a falling out with his brother and kicked over his apprenticeship..the nasty little juvenile delinquent - and ancient Rome and everywhere for all time) in this country it is going down presently. Doesn't that thrill you, even if you are wrong? What yah never want to do is lie about a researcher and claim he doesn't provide data for support. Research has been a integral part of my profession of CPS reform from 1976 to the present, save for a 5 year break from 1985 to 1990 when I had to attend to my portfolio and stop being just a happy but broke CPS reformer. I rejoined the fray in 90 and been having a ball ever since. You want some more numbers, Navarretia squarrosa? Lie some more, that'll do it. I'm a sucker for shooting down Mistletoe from Oak trees when challenged. Seriously, why do you do this when you know I have time and again buried you after you demanded data proof? Aren't you capable of embarrassment? You know that's a prime characteristic of the sociopath, do you not? Kane |
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Teleflora Calling...oh, Pinenut...Teleflora Calling.
CPS will never be fully functional. It is impossible. The amount of child abuse is so overwhelming that the demand for help cannot ever meet. Really? Citations But you love it. It gives you something to do while you ignore, minimize, and lie about the actual harm being done to children, and in fact you champion the abusers right in this ng, aps. Tsk. I am a professional and have worked with many and have not seen anything like the abuse and neglect which you endlessly whine about. I do much for children. In deprived neighborhoods. And in upscale communities. In all, CPS is ROUTINELY DISSED, DISMISSED, AND DEVALUED. It will be interesting to see what happens if and when they get the true scope of the abuse problem. Politics are a gas, no, Gilia aggregata? Despite the Feds throwing BILLIONS INTO fc AND ADOPTION, THEY did not oversee, nor make accountable, nor investigate ABSOLUTE CRIME COMMITTED IN THE NAMES OF CHILD ABUSE. Never even audited till 01. Is that a prudent use of my cash? I don't think so. |
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Teleflora Calling...oh, Pinenut...Teleflora Calling.
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Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Teleflora Calling...oh, Pinenut...Teleflora Calling. | Kane | Spanking | 2 | November 19th 03 12:51 AM |