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  #121  
Old November 29th 06, 05:44 AM posted to alt.child-support
Chris
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Posts: 2,421
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"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
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"teachrmama" wrote in message
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Of course half the marital assets should be yours--but
not more than
half. And that happens far more often than you might
imagine. As
long
as you are careful to take responsibility for every

step
you take
(or
agree to take), and don't hide behind the "but my

lawyer
made me do
it" excuse, you should not find yourself falling into
that trap.
Also, don't try to make him pay your lawyer's bills, so
you remain
aware of how much it costs to do the whole court thing.
The burden
is
on *you* to keep things fair.

Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to keep things
fair?

You know doggone well why, Moon. Once the system starts
rolling, HE
will simply be an ATM. She will be in the driver's seat.
How do you
propose that he keep things fair? Sign over every pay
check to her,
and
live on what she deigns to throw back to him?

I propose that *BOTH* adults act like adults, and try to
keep things
fair.

Like I said, right above - "Why isn't the burden on *BOTH*
of them to
keep things fair?"

And as I said right above, only she has the power to decide
to be fair.
He will have to do as ordered by the court. Which you know
perfectly
well.

Here, Teach - let's try this.

2 parents, both working. Only 1 is providing health

insurance.
Who
should
be paying for the health insurance? The person providing it,
the person
who
earns more money, or should they both try to be fair and

split
the cost?

In my state healthcare insurance is at the discretion of the

CP.
They can
select the NCP's coverage or provide their own coverage. In
either case,
the premiums are pro-rated based on their relative incomes and
any
unreimbursed healthcare expenses are pro-rated too. So the
higher income
parent pays more for premiums and for unreimbursed expenses.


2 parents, both working. 1 Parent has the children every
weekend. Should
the child support reflect this?

It already does. Right now CS is calculated based on one

parent
having the
children 100% of the time. CS would not change for the parent
having the
chidlren 100% of the time, but it should be reduced when the
other parent
has visitations becasue the costs of NCP children expenses are
not included
in any CS award that is not based on a parenting agreement.


2 parents, both working. 2 tax exemptions, 1 for each child.
Who should
get the tax exemptions?

By default the CP gets both child exemptions. Fairness would

be
to give one
up, but that only happens when the CP decides to share the
financial
benefit.


Let's see what your idea of fair is.

Now let's test your concept of fairness.

A mother has an affair and decides to leave husband for her

new
main
squeeze.

Should the husband be removed from the family home by

restaining
order?
No

Ah, but the mom can get custody anf force this to happen.

UNFAIR
on her part--but a very normal scenario. What could he do to

make
it more fair?

Nice try teach - I see that you've totally ignored my questions

for
you.

Pretty telling.

Enjoy your bias.

(hint for you - not all women act in the way you ASSume they do

and
not all men are the perfect angels you would like to portray)

Actually, Moon, I have never made all moms out to be that way--you
simply don't like it being pointed out that women who choose to
behave that way have the court's backing to do so. Nor have I

ever
said that I think all men are angels--I am perfectly aware that
there are men who do not care what the court orders--they do as

they
please. However, no matter how you slice it, WOMEN have the
overwhelming advantage in today's biased system. No matter what
little questions you come up with. All of which are decided by the
court in most places.

And how does ANY of that prevent *BOTH* parties from trying to keep
things fair?

How coan MEN keep it fair, Moon, when they are given NO POWER or
backing in the system. Only the MOTHER, who has the power to take

it
all, has the power to be fair. You are purposely beinmg obtuse.

Not at all - I find this "men as victim" line of yours pretty

tedious,
though.
To read your posts, men either need to be given power by mom, or they
need to be given power by "the system".

Whether you like it or not, men have no power within the system. If

mom
wants the ful pound of flesh exacted byt the eyetem, she gets it, and
there is nothing he can do about it. Only SHE can decide not to take

so
much.. He has NO POWER to make the it more fair. It doesn't matter how
often you try to assert that HE can make the process more fair--he
can't.

Noe, believe it or not, the fact that a man has no power to make the
system work in a more fair way does not make him a victim. It just
means that he has n power to make changes in that one aea of his
life--which does, indeed, affect other areas of his life. But he has
the power to make of the rest of his life anything he wants to make of
it.

You talk often enough about your kids' fther walking out and not

looking
back. You have absolutely no power in that area--does that mean that
*you* are a victim, Moon?

Nope. What he does has zero effect on me. It DOES, however, make

these
kids victims of his poor behavior.


I certainly hope you are not teaching your children that they are

victims!

Of course not. We simply go about our business and live our lives.


Everyone needs to play the cards they are dealt, and not liking your

cards
should never make you sit down and pout!


Then why are so many men doing precisely that?


Just to **** you off.








  #122  
Old November 29th 06, 05:46 AM posted to alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Gini" wrote in message
news:a18bh.14423$_x3.11060@trndny02...

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

I certainly hope you are not teaching your children that they are

victims!
Everyone needs to play the cards they are dealt, and not liking your

cards
should never make you sit down and pout!

==
That is the tragedy of some children of divorce. A parent's obsession with
the
minutia of "issues" tramples common sense and dignity. Fortunately, the
children come of age and
sort beyond the BS they were handed. Then mom's "too bad your dad didn't
show for your party," becomes
child's "no damn wonder he stayed away after the horrible wretch you were

to
him."


And I know quite a few adults who have crossed that boundary.





  #123  
Old November 29th 06, 05:51 AM posted to alt.child-support
Chris
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,421
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Relayer" wrote in message
ups.com...

Moon Shyne wrote:
"Relayer" wrote in message
ups.com...


Not at all - I find this "men as victim" line of yours pretty

tedious,
though.
To read your posts, men either need to be given power by mom, or they
need
to be given power by "the system".

At what point do men actually do for themselves?


That is an insane statement. Are you saying men should violate a court
order (given by the system) or violate Mom (who would then immediately
use the "system" to get what she wants)?


I said neither of those, as is plain to see.


Come on Moon.



Ok,


It's NOT ok. Although she didn't speak the words, her rhetorical question
did!

answer this. At what point, in your opinion, do for themselves?
What you don't seemto understand that 99.9% of the process is out of
the mans hands and in violating the process, men often end up in jail,
unlike women.



  #124  
Old November 29th 06, 05:55 AM posted to alt.child-support
Bob Whiteside
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 981
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Gini" wrote in message
news:a18bh.14423$_x3.11060@trndny02...

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

I certainly hope you are not teaching your children that they are

victims!
Everyone needs to play the cards they are dealt, and not liking your

cards
should never make you sit down and pout!

==
That is the tragedy of some children of divorce. A parent's obsession with
the
minutia of "issues" tramples common sense and dignity. Fortunately, the
children come of age and
sort beyond the BS they were handed. Then mom's "too bad your dad didn't
show for your party," becomes
child's "no damn wonder he stayed away after the horrible wretch you were

to
him."


You wouldn't believe some of the **** my daughter tells me now that she is
an adult. The children figure it out!


  #125  
Old November 29th 06, 10:36 AM posted to alt.child-support
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Bob Whiteside" wrote

"Gini" wrote

......................
Fortunately, the
children come of age and
sort beyond the BS they were handed. Then mom's "too bad your dad didn't
show for your party," becomes
child's "no damn wonder he stayed away after the horrible wretch you were

to
him."


You wouldn't believe some of the **** my daughter tells me now that she is
an adult. The children figure it out!

==
Absolutely, and it doesn't take them long.


  #126  
Old November 29th 06, 03:08 PM posted to alt.child-support
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Of course half the marital assets should be
yours--but not more than
half. And that happens far more often than you might
imagine. As
long
as you are careful to take responsibility for every
step you take
(or
agree to take), and don't hide behind the "but my
lawyer made me do
it" excuse, you should not find yourself falling
into that trap.
Also, don't try to make him pay your lawyer's bills,
so you remain
aware of how much it costs to do the whole court
thing. The burden
is
on *you* to keep things fair.

Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to keep things
fair?

You know doggone well why, Moon. Once the system
starts rolling, HE
will simply be an ATM. She will be in the driver's
seat. How do you
propose that he keep things fair? Sign over every pay
check to her,
and
live on what she deigns to throw back to him?

I propose that *BOTH* adults act like adults, and try
to keep things
fair.

Like I said, right above - "Why isn't the burden on
*BOTH* of them to
keep things fair?"

And as I said right above, only she has the power to
decide to be fair.
He will have to do as ordered by the court. Which you
know perfectly
well.

Here, Teach - let's try this.

2 parents, both working. Only 1 is providing health
insurance. Who
should
be paying for the health insurance? The person providing
it, the person
who
earns more money, or should they both try to be fair and
split the cost?

In my state healthcare insurance is at the discretion of
the CP. They can
select the NCP's coverage or provide their own coverage.
In either case,
the premiums are pro-rated based on their relative incomes
and any
unreimbursed healthcare expenses are pro-rated too. So the
higher income
parent pays more for premiums and for unreimbursed
expenses.


2 parents, both working. 1 Parent has the children every
weekend. Should
the child support reflect this?

It already does. Right now CS is calculated based on one
parent having the
children 100% of the time. CS would not change for the
parent having the
chidlren 100% of the time, but it should be reduced when
the other parent
has visitations becasue the costs of NCP children expenses
are not included
in any CS award that is not based on a parenting agreement.


2 parents, both working. 2 tax exemptions, 1 for each
child. Who should
get the tax exemptions?

By default the CP gets both child exemptions. Fairness
would be to give one
up, but that only happens when the CP decides to share the
financial
benefit.


Let's see what your idea of fair is.

Now let's test your concept of fairness.

A mother has an affair and decides to leave husband for her
new main
squeeze.

Should the husband be removed from the family home by
restaining order?
No

Ah, but the mom can get custody anf force this to happen.
UNFAIR on her part--but a very normal scenario. What could
he do to make it more fair?

Nice try teach - I see that you've totally ignored my
questions for you.

Pretty telling.

Enjoy your bias.

(hint for you - not all women act in the way you ASSume they
do and not all men are the perfect angels you would like to
portray)

Actually, Moon, I have never made all moms out to be that
way--you simply don't like it being pointed out that women who
choose to behave that way have the court's backing to do so.
Nor have I ever said that I think all men are angels--I am
perfectly aware that there are men who do not care what the
court orders--they do as they please. However, no matter how
you slice it, WOMEN have the overwhelming advantage in today's
biased system. No matter what little questions you come up
with. All of which are decided by the court in most places.

And how does ANY of that prevent *BOTH* parties from trying to
keep things fair?

How coan MEN keep it fair, Moon, when they are given NO POWER or
backing in the system. Only the MOTHER, who has the power to
take it all, has the power to be fair. You are purposely beinmg
obtuse.

Not at all - I find this "men as victim" line of yours pretty
tedious, though.
To read your posts, men either need to be given power by mom, or
they need to be given power by "the system".

Whether you like it or not, men have no power within the system.
If mom wants the ful pound of flesh exacted byt the eyetem, she
gets it, and there is nothing he can do about it. Only SHE can
decide not to take so much.. He has NO POWER to make the it more
fair. It doesn't matter how often you try to assert that HE can
make the process more fair--he can't.

Noe, believe it or not, the fact that a man has no power to make
the system work in a more fair way does not make him a victim. It
just means that he has n power to make changes in that one aea of
his life--which does, indeed, affect other areas of his life. But
he has the power to make of the rest of his life anything he wants
to make of it.

You talk often enough about your kids' fther walking out and not
looking back. You have absolutely no power in that area--does that
mean that *you* are a victim, Moon?

Nope. What he does has zero effect on me. It DOES, however, make
these kids victims of his poor behavior.


I certainly hope you are not teaching your children that they are
victims!


Of course not. We simply go about our business and live our lives.


Everyone needs to play the cards they are dealt, and not liking your
cards should never make you sit down and pout!


Then why are so many men doing precisely that?


Just men? No women?
Your prejudice is showing
If you want to see pouting, go to now.org for the real, professional
thing. Funny thing though, most of them are whining women but
considering the situation, I'm sure you're very well aware of it.
Phil #3


  #127  
Old November 29th 06, 03:15 PM posted to alt.child-support
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Gini" wrote in message
news:a18bh.14423$_x3.11060@trndny02...

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

I certainly hope you are not teaching your children that they are
victims! Everyone needs to play the cards they are dealt, and not
liking your cards should never make you sit down and pout!

==
That is the tragedy of some children of divorce. A parent's obsession
with the
minutia of "issues" tramples common sense and dignity. Fortunately,
the children come of age and
sort beyond the BS they were handed. Then mom's "too bad your dad
didn't show for your party," becomes
child's "no damn wonder he stayed away after the horrible wretch you
were to him."


I wonder if these mothers ever realize they are their own worst enemy
and caused their later situation by their earlier actions.
Phil #3


  #128  
Old November 29th 06, 03:17 PM posted to alt.child-support
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Gini" wrote in message
news:a18bh.14423$_x3.11060@trndny02...

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

I certainly hope you are not teaching your children that they are

victims!
Everyone needs to play the cards they are dealt, and not liking
your

cards
should never make you sit down and pout!

==
That is the tragedy of some children of divorce. A parent's obsession
with
the
minutia of "issues" tramples common sense and dignity. Fortunately,
the
children come of age and
sort beyond the BS they were handed. Then mom's "too bad your dad
didn't
show for your party," becomes
child's "no damn wonder he stayed away after the horrible wretch you
were

to
him."


You wouldn't believe some of the **** my daughter tells me now that
she is
an adult. The children figure it out!

Same here. Then along comes some man-hater asking how a father could
know if the C$ was not spent on the child. )
--
Intelligent people, when assembled into an organization, will tend
toward collective stupidity.”` Karl Albrecht
Phil #3


  #129  
Old November 29th 06, 03:33 PM posted to alt.child-support
Phil
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 387
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Phil" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Phil" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Phil" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Of course half the marital assets should be yours--but
not more than half. And that happens far more often than
you might imagine. As long as you are careful to take
responsibility for every step you take (or agree to
take), and don't hide behind the "but my lawyer made me
do it" excuse, you should not find yourself falling into
that trap. Also, don't try to make him pay your lawyer's
bills, so you remain aware of how much it costs to do the
whole court thing. The burden is on *you* to keep things
fair.

Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to keep things
fair?

You know doggone well why, Moon. Once the system starts
rolling, HE will simply be an ATM. She will be in the
driver's seat. How do you propose that he keep things
fair? Sign over every pay check to her, and live on what
she deigns to throw back to him?

I propose that *BOTH* adults act like adults, and try to
keep things fair.

Like I said, right above - "Why isn't the burden on *BOTH*
of them to keep things fair?"

And as I said right above, only she has the power to decide
to be fair. He will have to do as ordered by the court.
Which you know perfectly well.

Here, Teach - let's try this.

2 parents, both working. Only 1 is providing health
insurance. Who should be paying for the health insurance? The
person providing it, the person who earns more money, or
should they both try to be fair and split the cost?

2 parents, both working. 1 Parent has the children every
weekend. Should the child support reflect this?

2 parents, both working. 2 tax exemptions, 1 for each child.
Who should get the tax exemptions?

Let's see what your idea of fair is.


Ok, Moon, let's discuss fair.

snipping diatribe

Teach, I believe your starting premise is as screwed up as your
view of CP's.

Trying to keep things fair is NOT the responsibility of one, and
only one, person.

As long as you insist that it is, you've tossed any sense of
fairness right out the window.

When there are 2 people, it takes 2 to screw it up, and it takes
2 to try to make things fair.

You mean you are partly responsible for being abandoned by your
ex?

I wasn't abandoned. Never made that claim, not once. Let's
see.......... oh yeah, I was there - I was the one who filed for
divorce.


You kicked him out?

No, I filed for divorce.


You admit some fault in the failed marriage *other* than just being
the one to file or was it just his actions or inactions that
resulted in divorce?

I couldn't be married to him anymore. I filed for divorce.

Phil #3


Perhaps, but I disagree with your overall statement.
No matter how wonderful things are, it only takes one to screw it
up and in today's world, it only takes one to make the result
unfair.
Phil #3


Complete and total sidestep.
Typical.
Don't you just hate it when your own words bite you in the ass?


What sidestep? You asked if I kicked him out, and I did not.

You asked about the reasons for my divorce (which is none of your
business), and I answered - I couldn't be married to him anymore.


Phil #3

Remember this:"You admit some fault in the failed marriage *other* than
just being the one to file or was it just his actions or inactions that
resulted in divorce?" ? You failed to answer that even when the answer
would not require you to divulge any 'secrets' about your divorce.
You made a claim that "it takes 2 to screw it up"; I, and others, called
you on it. Either you had some fault in your marriage failing or you are
wrong that "it takes 2 to screw it up". Personally, I think everything
you say carries a high probability of being incorrect.
You now claim that the reasons for your divorce are none of my business
after a decade of posting them?
You are becoming much like Marge; a bitter, old, lonely hag who spends
half her time complaining about getting what she demanded from life, the
other half blaming men for her self induced problems.
Phil #3


  #130  
Old November 29th 06, 05:17 PM posted to alt.child-support
Gini
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 936
Default To ALL fathers Custody


"Phil" wrote

"Gini" wrote

"teachrmama" wrote
............................

I certainly hope you are not teaching your children that they are
victims! Everyone needs to play the cards they are dealt, and not liking
your cards should never make you sit down and pout!

==
That is the tragedy of some children of divorce. A parent's obsession
with the
minutia of "issues" tramples common sense and dignity. Fortunately, the
children come of age and
sort beyond the BS they were handed. Then mom's "too bad your dad didn't
show for your party," becomes
child's "no damn wonder he stayed away after the horrible wretch you were
to him."


I wonder if these mothers ever realize they are their own worst enemy and
caused their later situation by their earlier actions.

==
I don't think they realize the implications of their actions at the time
because it's hard to imagine one's child as an independently thinking adult.
My stepchildren were very controlled by their mother who
blamed my DH for all manner of things including never having enough money
for them, despite
the fact that we were paying 600. then 1200. a month CS. She blamed us
because she got evicted from her apt,
had her car re-poed and was asked not to come back to certain doctors
because she had so many unpaid bills.
She told the kids that DH was putting me and our kids ahead of them. They
were told that we were living large at their expense--
They had no idea how much support we were paying, or how financially
strapped we were because of it. Now they do, and not because
we ran to them and spilled the beans. The kids asked about these things
after they were grown and we simply told them
the facts.



 




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