To ALL fathers Custody

"Relayer" wrote in message
oups.com...

The courts are so biased to the mothers its sick

It's sick because the people running the courts are sick.

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Relayer" wrote in message
oups.com...


It really sounds as if you think you are trying to be fair. But there
is
an
unfortunate trap you seem to be about to walk in to. The "but I only
want
what he owes me" trap. Why is 17% a fair amount? Who determined that?
Have you actually sat down and figured out an amount that would get you
through the month without a shortfall? Is it *really* a full 17% of
his
pay? Does your child spend time with his father? If so, dad needs to
have
everything you need for the child. It isn't as if his expenses have
disappeared.

Also keep in mind that you have some great tax advantages. You pay no
taxes
on the child support. And YOU get to claim the child on you taxes. I
believe you also get to file as head of household, which further
decreases
your tax burden. He will be paying taxes at the higher single rate.

Oh, another thing. Are you going to be telling the court that he has
not
paid you a thin dime in 10 months? If so, he will have an outomatic
arrearage, with all the joys of having even more money taken straight
from
his paycheck, plus interest charges, and a big fat black mark on his
credit
report. And if he is ever injoured or laid off, the arrearages will
grow
and grow and grow. You, however, can be injured or laid off without
any
consequence other than being short of cash.

Do you have a written budget? My suggestion is that you prepare one,
and
take a good hard look at it. I know that there are things that you
want
to
be able to provide for your son that you maight consider to be
indispenseable. But, being very honest, divide your budget into
essential
items and negotiable items. Then have your child's father take a look
at
what you really need, and give him a voice in the negotiable items.
That
way he will be a part of the decision making, and will see that you are
not
trying to gouge him, but truly do need the money. And make sure that
you
recognize his expenses, too. Say it over and over so he knows you
understand. Communication isn't something that just happens--sometimes
you
have to work at it--sometimes you have to work harder than you've ever
worked in your life. But your son is worth it, right?

And, above all, don't fall into the "he owes me" trap. The fact that
the
state of NY says is doesn't make it true.


The 17% is determined by State law, but adjustable. Getting through the
month without a shortfall is not up to him alone. If there is a short
fall, the custodial parent needs to search for more lucrative
employment.

My impression is that she does work. And I most certainly did not say
anything about his making up shortfalls. I said to look at what is really
needed, and proceed from there. Work together to come up with a plan that
is mutually agreeable--not get into the "I am owed" mindset. It will
probably come out to far less than the 17% decreed by law.

How about each parent take care of the child when said child is with them.

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
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"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
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"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Of course half the marital assets should be yours--but not more
than
half. And that happens far more often than you might imagine.
As
long
as you are careful to take responsibility for every step you
take
(or
agree to take), and don't hide behind the "but my lawyer made
me
do
it" excuse, you should not find yourself falling into that
trap.
Also, don't try to make him pay your lawyer's bills, so you
remain
aware of how much it costs to do the whole court thing. The
burden
is
on *you* to keep things fair.

Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to keep things fair?

You know doggone well why, Moon. Once the system starts rolling,
HE
will simply be an ATM. She will be in the driver's seat. How do
you
propose that he keep things fair? Sign over every pay check to
her,
and
live on what she deigns to throw back to him?

I propose that *BOTH* adults act like adults, and try to keep
things
fair.

Like I said, right above - "Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them
to
keep things fair?"

And as I said right above, only she has the power to decide to be
fair.
He will have to do as ordered by the court. Which you know
perfectly
well.

Here, Teach - let's try this.

2 parents, both working. Only 1 is providing health insurance. Who
should
be paying for the health insurance? The person providing it, the
person
who
earns more money, or should they both try to be fair and split the
cost?

In my state healthcare insurance is at the discretion of the CP. They
can
select the NCP's coverage or provide their own coverage. In either
case,
the premiums are pro-rated based on their relative incomes and any
unreimbursed healthcare expenses are pro-rated too. So the higher
income
parent pays more for premiums and for unreimbursed expenses.


2 parents, both working. 1 Parent has the children every weekend.
Should
the child support reflect this?

It already does. Right now CS is calculated based on one parent
having
the
children 100% of the time. CS would not change for the parent having
the
chidlren 100% of the time, but it should be reduced when the other
parent
has visitations becasue the costs of NCP children expenses are not
included
in any CS award that is not based on a parenting agreement.


2 parents, both working. 2 tax exemptions, 1 for each child. Who
should
get the tax exemptions?

By default the CP gets both child exemptions. Fairness would be to
give
one
up, but that only happens when the CP decides to share the financial
benefit.


Let's see what your idea of fair is.

Now let's test your concept of fairness.

A mother has an affair and decides to leave husband for her new main
squeeze.

Should the husband be removed from the family home by restaining
order?
No

Ah, but the mom can get custody anf force this to happen. UNFAIR on her
part--but a very normal scenario. What could he do to make it more
fair?

Nice try teach - I see that you've totally ignored my questions for you.

The reverse of what you said is what's true. It is YOU who just totally
ignored her above question for you as well as the MANY others that you
simply edited out of the conversation. "Pretty telling." She ignored NO
question from you to her. I would say that's "pretty telling" too, wouldn't
you?


Pretty telling.

Enjoy your bias.

(hint for you - not all women act in the way you ASSume they do and not
all
men are the perfect angels you would like to portray)

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Of course half the marital assets should be yours--but not more
than
half. And that happens far more often than you might imagine. As
long as you are careful to take responsibility for every step you
take (or agree to take), and don't hide behind the "but my lawyer
made me do it" excuse, you should not find yourself falling into
that trap. Also, don't try to make him pay your lawyer's bills, so
you remain aware of how much it costs to do the whole court thing.
The burden is on *you* to keep things fair.

Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to keep things fair?

You know doggone well why, Moon. Once the system starts rolling, HE
will simply be an ATM. She will be in the driver's seat. How do
you
propose that he keep things fair? Sign over every pay check to her,
and live on what she deigns to throw back to him?

I propose that *BOTH* adults act like adults, and try to keep things
fair.

Like I said, right above - "Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to
keep things fair?"

And as I said right above, only she has the power to decide to be
fair.
He will have to do as ordered by the court. Which you know perfectly
well.

Here, Teach - let's try this.

2 parents, both working. Only 1 is providing health insurance. Who
should be paying for the health insurance? The person providing it,
the
person who earns more money, or should they both try to be fair and
split
the cost?

2 parents, both working. 1 Parent has the children every weekend.
Should the child support reflect this?

2 parents, both working. 2 tax exemptions, 1 for each child. Who
should
get the tax exemptions?

Let's see what your idea of fair is.


Ok, Moon, let's discuss fair.

snipping diatribe

Teach, I believe your starting premise is as screwed up as your view of
CP's.

Trying to keep things fair is NOT the responsibility of one, and only one,
person.

Try telling that to the lamb when it is being attacked by the wolf.


As long as you insist that it is, you've tossed any sense of fairness
right
out the window.

When there are 2 people, it takes 2 to screw it up,

No it doesn't.

and it takes 2 to try to
make things fair.

No it doesn't.

"Dale" wrote
.........................

She's just one of these antagonists that have to be right all of the time.
That's why she thrives on USENET groups, she enjoys the conflict she
thinks she creates, but nobody is biting.
==
On the contrary--She gets lotsa biters.

"Phil" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Of course half the marital assets should be yours--but not more
than half. And that happens far more often than you might imagine.
As long as you are careful to take responsibility for every step
you take (or agree to take), and don't hide behind the "but my
lawyer made me do it" excuse, you should not find yourself falling
into that trap. Also, don't try to make him pay your lawyer's
bills, so you remain aware of how much it costs to do the whole
court thing. The burden is on *you* to keep things fair.

Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to keep things fair?

You know doggone well why, Moon. Once the system starts rolling, HE
will simply be an ATM. She will be in the driver's seat. How do
you propose that he keep things fair? Sign over every pay check to
her, and live on what she deigns to throw back to him?

I propose that *BOTH* adults act like adults, and try to keep things
fair.

Like I said, right above - "Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to
keep things fair?"

And as I said right above, only she has the power to decide to be
fair. He will have to do as ordered by the court. Which you know
perfectly well.

Here, Teach - let's try this.

2 parents, both working. Only 1 is providing health insurance. Who
should be paying for the health insurance? The person providing it,
the person who earns more money, or should they both try to be fair and
split the cost?

2 parents, both working. 1 Parent has the children every weekend.
Should the child support reflect this?

2 parents, both working. 2 tax exemptions, 1 for each child. Who
should get the tax exemptions?

Let's see what your idea of fair is.


Ok, Moon, let's discuss fair.

snipping diatribe

Teach, I believe your starting premise is as screwed up as your view of
CP's.

Trying to keep things fair is NOT the responsibility of one, and only
one, person.

As long as you insist that it is, you've tossed any sense of fairness
right out the window.

When there are 2 people, it takes 2 to screw it up, and it takes 2 to try
to make things fair.

You mean you are partly responsible for being abandoned by your ex?

I wasn't abandoned. Never made that claim, not once. Let's see..........
oh yeah, I was there - I was the one who filed for divorce.


Perhaps, but I disagree with your overall statement.
No matter how wonderful things are, it only takes one to screw it up and
in today's world, it only takes one to make the result unfair.
Phil #3

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Relayer" wrote in message
oups.com...


It really sounds as if you think you are trying to be fair. But there
is
an
unfortunate trap you seem to be about to walk in to. The "but I only
want
what he owes me" trap. Why is 17% a fair amount? Who determined
that?
Have you actually sat down and figured out an amount that would get
you
through the month without a shortfall? Is it *really* a full 17% of
his
pay? Does your child spend time with his father? If so, dad needs to
have
everything you need for the child. It isn't as if his expenses have
disappeared.

Also keep in mind that you have some great tax advantages. You pay no
taxes
on the child support. And YOU get to claim the child on you taxes. I
believe you also get to file as head of household, which further
decreases
your tax burden. He will be paying taxes at the higher single rate.

Oh, another thing. Are you going to be telling the court that he has
not
paid you a thin dime in 10 months? If so, he will have an outomatic
arrearage, with all the joys of having even more money taken straight
from
his paycheck, plus interest charges, and a big fat black mark on his
credit
report. And if he is ever injoured or laid off, the arrearages will
grow
and grow and grow. You, however, can be injured or laid off without
any
consequence other than being short of cash.

Do you have a written budget? My suggestion is that you prepare one,
and
take a good hard look at it. I know that there are things that you
want
to
be able to provide for your son that you maight consider to be
indispenseable. But, being very honest, divide your budget into
essential
items and negotiable items. Then have your child's father take a look
at
what you really need, and give him a voice in the negotiable items.
That
way he will be a part of the decision making, and will see that you
are
not
trying to gouge him, but truly do need the money. And make sure that
you
recognize his expenses, too. Say it over and over so he knows you
understand. Communication isn't something that just
happens--sometimes
you
have to work at it--sometimes you have to work harder than you've ever
worked in your life. But your son is worth it, right?

And, above all, don't fall into the "he owes me" trap. The fact that
the
state of NY says is doesn't make it true.


The 17% is determined by State law, but adjustable. Getting through the
month without a shortfall is not up to him alone. If there is a short
fall, the custodial parent needs to search for more lucrative
employment.

My impression is that she does work. And I most certainly did not say
anything about his making up shortfalls. I said to look at what is
really
needed, and proceed from there. Work together to come up with a plan
that
is mutually agreeable--not get into the "I am owed" mindset. It will
probably come out to far less than the 17% decreed by law.

How about each parent take care of the child when said child is with them.

So who provides the child with health insurance?

And what about clothing? Shall we send the children stark naked, so that
the parent with whom the child is staying provides their clothing?

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Of course half the marital assets should be yours--but not more
than
half. And that happens far more often than you might imagine.
As
long
as you are careful to take responsibility for every step you
take
(or
agree to take), and don't hide behind the "but my lawyer made
me do
it" excuse, you should not find yourself falling into that
trap.
Also, don't try to make him pay your lawyer's bills, so you
remain
aware of how much it costs to do the whole court thing. The
burden
is
on *you* to keep things fair.

Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to keep things fair?

You know doggone well why, Moon. Once the system starts rolling,
HE
will simply be an ATM. She will be in the driver's seat. How do
you
propose that he keep things fair? Sign over every pay check to
her,
and
live on what she deigns to throw back to him?

I propose that *BOTH* adults act like adults, and try to keep
things
fair.

Like I said, right above - "Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them
to
keep things fair?"

And as I said right above, only she has the power to decide to be
fair.
He will have to do as ordered by the court. Which you know
perfectly
well.

Here, Teach - let's try this.

2 parents, both working. Only 1 is providing health insurance. Who
should
be paying for the health insurance? The person providing it, the
person
who
earns more money, or should they both try to be fair and split the
cost?

In my state healthcare insurance is at the discretion of the CP. They
can
select the NCP's coverage or provide their own coverage. In either
case,
the premiums are pro-rated based on their relative incomes and any
unreimbursed healthcare expenses are pro-rated too. So the higher
income
parent pays more for premiums and for unreimbursed expenses.


2 parents, both working. 1 Parent has the children every weekend.
Should
the child support reflect this?

It already does. Right now CS is calculated based on one parent
having the
children 100% of the time. CS would not change for the parent having
the
chidlren 100% of the time, but it should be reduced when the other
parent
has visitations becasue the costs of NCP children expenses are not
included
in any CS award that is not based on a parenting agreement.


2 parents, both working. 2 tax exemptions, 1 for each child. Who
should
get the tax exemptions?

By default the CP gets both child exemptions. Fairness would be to
give one
up, but that only happens when the CP decides to share the financial
benefit.


Let's see what your idea of fair is.

Now let's test your concept of fairness.

A mother has an affair and decides to leave husband for her new main
squeeze.

Should the husband be removed from the family home by restaining
order?
No

Ah, but the mom can get custody anf force this to happen. UNFAIR on her
part--but a very normal scenario. What could he do to make it more
fair?

Nice try teach - I see that you've totally ignored my questions for you.

Pretty telling.

Enjoy your bias.

(hint for you - not all women act in the way you ASSume they do and not
all men are the perfect angels you would like to portray)

Actually, Moon, I have never made all moms out to be that way--you simply
don't like it being pointed out that women who choose to behave that way
have the court's backing to do so. Nor have I ever said that I think all
men are angels--I am perfectly aware that there are men who do not care
what the court orders--they do as they please. However, no matter how you
slice it, WOMEN have the overwhelming advantage in today's biased system.
No matter what little questions you come up with. All of which are
decided by the court in most places.

And how does ANY of that prevent *BOTH* parties from trying to keep things
fair?

"Bob Whiteside" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...

"Moon Shyne" wrote in message
...

"teachrmama" wrote in message
...
Of course half the marital assets should be yours--but not more
than
half. And that happens far more often than you might imagine. As
long as you are careful to take responsibility for every step you
take (or agree to take), and don't hide behind the "but my lawyer
made me do it" excuse, you should not find yourself falling into
that trap. Also, don't try to make him pay your lawyer's bills,
so
you remain aware of how much it costs to do the whole court
thing.
The burden is on *you* to keep things fair.

Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them to keep things fair?

You know doggone well why, Moon. Once the system starts rolling,
HE
will simply be an ATM. She will be in the driver's seat. How do
you
propose that he keep things fair? Sign over every pay check to
her,
and live on what she deigns to throw back to him?

I propose that *BOTH* adults act like adults, and try to keep things
fair.

Like I said, right above - "Why isn't the burden on *BOTH* of them
to
keep things fair?"

And as I said right above, only she has the power to decide to be
fair.
He will have to do as ordered by the court. Which you know perfectly
well.

Here, Teach - let's try this.

2 parents, both working. Only 1 is providing health insurance. Who
should be paying for the health insurance? The person providing it,
the
person who earns more money, or should they both try to be fair and
split
the cost?

2 parents, both working. 1 Parent has the children every weekend.
Should the child support reflect this?

2 parents, both working. 2 tax exemptions, 1 for each child. Who
should
get the tax exemptions?

Let's see what your idea of fair is.


Ok, Moon, let's discuss fair.

snipping diatribe

Teach, I believe your starting premise is as screwed up as your view of
CP's.

Trying to keep things fair is NOT the responsibility of one, and only
one,
person.

As long as you insist that it is, you've tossed any sense of fairness
right
out the window.

When there are 2 people, it takes 2 to screw it up, and it takes 2 to try
to
make things fair.

So if I was responsible for fairness when I got divorced, why did my
attorney tell me his job was to help me reduce my losses?

How on earth would you expect me to know what your attorney was thinking?


And why did I lose on every legitimate financial issue I raised?

Without knowing what issues you raised, and what substantiation you provided
to back 'em up, how on earth would you expect me to know the answer to this?

"Moon Shyne" wrote in

Without knowing what issues you raised, and what substantiation you
provided to back 'em up, how on earth would you expect me to know the
answer to this?


Ummm, we could care less what your answer is!