Lawyers - beware!

I was having issues with parenting time and followed the advice I got
from this group to get a lawyer to get specific parenting time
ordered. I found one that kept putting off our initial meeting. I
decided I better find someone different. The new lawyer seemed like a
real good guy. He's been doing family law for decades. I figured that
this was one time I didn't want to skimp so I hired him. I gave him
the details of my case and we came up with a plan to put into a
motion. When I went to pick it up, I was floored. It looked like
something a 12 year old might have written. It was full of mistakes. I
called up and pointed out some of the more glaring ones. The motion
was only vaguely similar to what we agreed on. He took everything I
told him and put the ex in the worst possible light. I figured that
this was part of his strategy. Since our date is drawing near, I
called him up to find out what to do. After giving me a lecture on how
costly his time was, he realized that the referee he thought was on
the case was not the same as on the motion. The only reason I hired
him was so that I wouldn't make these kinds of mistakes myself! I'm
feeling sick to my stomach....I now have an ex that is extremely
****ed off, I have to back up statements that are true but unprovable
and really stretching it, and I have an attorney that is more
interested in the quantity of cases instead of the quality. I feel
like I'm in a worse spot now than when I started! He still isn't sure
who is hearing the case. Now I don't know what to do. I don't want to
roll the dice on another attorney since the money is running out. I've
been told it is a rubber stamp decision that I'll get SOME time so
should I just ride this out or what? I'm afraid that this guy will
hurt my chances. Any ideas?

"Tim" wrote in message
...
I was having issues with parenting time and followed the advice I got
from this group to get a lawyer to get specific parenting time
ordered. I found one that kept putting off our initial meeting. I
decided I better find someone different. The new lawyer seemed like a
real good guy. He's been doing family law for decades. I figured that
this was one time I didn't want to skimp so I hired him. I gave him
the details of my case and we came up with a plan to put into a
motion. When I went to pick it up, I was floored. It looked like
something a 12 year old might have written. It was full of mistakes. I
called up and pointed out some of the more glaring ones. The motion
was only vaguely similar to what we agreed on. He took everything I
told him and put the ex in the worst possible light. I figured that
this was part of his strategy. Since our date is drawing near, I
called him up to find out what to do. After giving me a lecture on how
costly his time was, he realized that the referee he thought was on
the case was not the same as on the motion. The only reason I hired
him was so that I wouldn't make these kinds of mistakes myself! I'm
feeling sick to my stomach....I now have an ex that is extremely
****ed off, I have to back up statements that are true but unprovable
and really stretching it, and I have an attorney that is more
interested in the quantity of cases instead of the quality. I feel
like I'm in a worse spot now than when I started! He still isn't sure
who is hearing the case. Now I don't know what to do. I don't want to
roll the dice on another attorney since the money is running out. I've
been told it is a rubber stamp decision that I'll get SOME time so
should I just ride this out or what? I'm afraid that this guy will
hurt my chances. Any ideas?

If your state is anything like my state, you don't know which judge has been
assigned to your case until "morning call" on the day the trail is
scheduled.

If the trial is re-scheduled a new judge will be re-assigned on the same
date the continuance is heard.

Lawyers don't know who the decision maker will be in advance. I'm not
defending them - Just pointing out the wild card issue they have to deal
with in representing you.

Tim wrote:
Now I don't know what to do. I don't want to
roll the dice on another attorney since the money is running out. I've
been told it is a rubber stamp decision that I'll get SOME time so
should I just ride this out or what? I'm afraid that this guy will
hurt my chances. Any ideas?

You can leave it alone and just let it happen.

Downsides, the ex will be annoyed with the additional (unprovable)
whacks and the judge won't like it much either although they hear it
all the time. I doubt it will affect your outcome (although I don't
know the history).

Or you could fire the attorney and resubmit motions representing
yourself.

I do understand why people are reluctant to try to represent themselves
during the divorce trial they are in shock and it is a short but steep
learning curve. But I don't understand why so many men think they are
better off being represented when they submit or respond to motions.

Don in MA

wrote in

I don't understand why so many men think they are
better off being represented when they submit or respond to motions.

We are not trained in law matters and that constant phrase, "Only a fool
defends himself" is a mantra constantly cited to laymen by the law
profession so that even the bottom feeders of the law profession can succeed
by taking advantage of our obvious ignorance in these matters.

Much like the tax & corparate laws, how is a layman supposed to decipher
confusing law jargon?

The way all court rooms are conducted these days, most cases are put into
the express lane and defendants are told to accept plea bargains or one
sided contracts or face dire consequences if a full trial is forced to take
place. The American court system is not about fairness, honesty or justice,
it's about processing cases in the most convenient way for the court, unless
you have real money to buy justice.

Understand that these lawyers know before hand what procedures are rubber
stamped and already know the outcome of your requests. Before you hand them
any money, ask them what exactly they can do for you in terms of meeting
your expectations. They should explain the reality of your expectations and
the theory of how he is going to address your issues to the court. Any
Lawyer that doesn't give you a realistic view of what you are asking from
the court, is just going to go thru the motions to string you along for a
large bill at the end of a failed or disapointing result.

In short, a lawyer worth his salt will know exactly how to address your
issue and there should be no surprizes in the court. You're paying these
guys big bucks because they are supposed to know there stuff, don't let them
bull**** you with the judge preference routine. They'll always blame their
failure on the wrong judge for that day. What a crock!

On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:46:39 GMT, "Dale"
wrote:


wrote in

I don't understand why so many men think they are
better off being represented when they submit or respond to motions.

We are not trained in law matters and that constant phrase, "Only a fool
defends himself" is a mantra constantly cited to laymen by the law
profession so that even the bottom feeders of the law profession can succeed
by taking advantage of our obvious ignorance in these matters.

Much like the tax & corparate laws, how is a layman supposed to decipher
confusing law jargon?

This is exactly why I wanted to use a lawyer. The only other contact
I've had with the legal system was when they stuck me with the child
support and $5000 worth of medical bills.

The way all court rooms are conducted these days, most cases are put into
the express lane and defendants are told to accept plea bargains or one
sided contracts or face dire consequences if a full trial is forced to take
place. The American court system is not about fairness, honesty or justice,
it's about processing cases in the most convenient way for the court, unless
you have real money to buy justice.

I noticed the same thing about criminal trials. Justice is an excuse
to be there so they can see who wins the game that day.

Understand that these lawyers know before hand what procedures are rubber
stamped and already know the outcome of your requests. Before you hand them
any money, ask them what exactly they can do for you in terms of meeting
your expectations. They should explain the reality of your expectations and
the theory of how he is going to address your issues to the court. Any
Lawyer that doesn't give you a realistic view of what you are asking from
the court, is just going to go thru the motions to string you along for a
large bill at the end of a failed or disapointing result.

In short, a lawyer worth his salt will know exactly how to address your
issue and there should be no surprizes in the court. You're paying these
guys big bucks because they are supposed to know there stuff, don't let them
bull**** you with the judge preference routine. They'll always blame their
failure on the wrong judge for that day. What a crock!

My lawyer is getting all cozy with the lawyer from the other side
saying he can work with her well. WTF? I want you to go in, get the
order, and get out. He has already decided to drag this out due to a
fact that I told him at the start. The other lawyer told him the same
thing and now he's acting as if it's news to him! Of course he had me
agree that he could charge another 30 minutes of phone consultation
for that. I have the feeling that I better grab the vaseline and hang
on.

"Tim" wrote in

My lawyer is getting all cozy with the lawyer from the other side
saying he can work with her well. WTF? I want you to go in, get the
order, and get out. He has already decided to drag this out due to a
fact that I told him at the start. The other lawyer told him the same
thing and now he's acting as if it's news to him! Of course he had me
agree that he could charge another 30 minutes of phone consultation
for that. I have the feeling that I better grab the vaseline and hang
on.


Now you have the picture, it's all a legal racket that is designed to
maximize billable hours.
The Lawyers know all too well what the outcome will be. Their only real
concern is to make sure that you can pay their fee. You are nothing more
than just another paying account, I would be surprised if the they even
knew yrou name 3 months from now! LOL

IN short, the whole family court system is nothing more than a formality to
get you signed up on the government extortion program. Might as well get
in line with all those folks that bought a house with paying interest only
mortgages, they are about to get severely screwed too!

Screwing people has become the American way!

I believe most attorneys in the same profession try to be nice to one
another, it is a political issue. They don't have to like each other, but
they may have to work either for or against each other some time later on,
so be nice to one another.

My ex's attorney decided not to follow that little rule and it, quite
frankly, has very much perplexed my attorneys. Something they weren't used
to nor were expecting. It is beginning to work against him however as my
attorneys have caught on and gotten used to his poor attitude.

Admittingly, I was actually quite nervous about my attorney and his attempt
to try to 'be nice' and had strong suspicions of him as a result. I also
noticed my attorney at first appeared to try and take a 'minimize the
damage' approach. Even though at first things seemed right rocky, I am
actually much more comfortable with the fact that the attorneys are not
getting along, the opposing attorney's tactics to make me look like a
monster are getting old, and my attorneys are now more on the offense.

I think I may have a chance now.

In any case, if you want to avoid politicalness in the court arena, it may
be necessary to find an attorney in another town. He'll charge you more,
but he'll have less politicalness to work around.

"Tim" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 07 Dec 2006 17:46:39 GMT, "Dale"
wrote:


wrote in

I don't understand why so many men think they are
better off being represented when they submit or respond to motions.

We are not trained in law matters and that constant phrase, "Only a fool
defends himself" is a mantra constantly cited to laymen by the law
profession so that even the bottom feeders of the law profession can
succeed
by taking advantage of our obvious ignorance in these matters.

Much like the tax & corparate laws, how is a layman supposed to decipher
confusing law jargon?

This is exactly why I wanted to use a lawyer. The only other contact
I've had with the legal system was when they stuck me with the child
support and $5000 worth of medical bills.

The way all court rooms are conducted these days, most cases are put into
the express lane and defendants are told to accept plea bargains or one
sided contracts or face dire consequences if a full trial is forced to
take
place. The American court system is not about fairness, honesty or
justice,
it's about processing cases in the most convenient way for the court,
unless
you have real money to buy justice.

I noticed the same thing about criminal trials. Justice is an excuse
to be there so they can see who wins the game that day.

Understand that these lawyers know before hand what procedures are rubber
stamped and already know the outcome of your requests. Before you hand
them
any money, ask them what exactly they can do for you in terms of meeting
your expectations. They should explain the reality of your expectations
and
the theory of how he is going to address your issues to the court. Any
Lawyer that doesn't give you a realistic view of what you are asking from
the court, is just going to go thru the motions to string you along for a
large bill at the end of a failed or disapointing result.

In short, a lawyer worth his salt will know exactly how to address your
issue and there should be no surprizes in the court. You're paying these
guys big bucks because they are supposed to know there stuff, don't let
them
bull**** you with the judge preference routine. They'll always blame their
failure on the wrong judge for that day. What a crock!

My lawyer is getting all cozy with the lawyer from the other side
saying he can work with her well. WTF? I want you to go in, get the
order, and get out. He has already decided to drag this out due to a
fact that I told him at the start. The other lawyer told him the same
thing and now he's acting as if it's news to him! Of course he had me
agree that he could charge another 30 minutes of phone consultation
for that. I have the feeling that I better grab the vaseline and hang
on.


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