Desparate,Tired: I Need Help for Nap vs. Night Sleep

Hello, I have a 3 1/2 year old. He doesn't go to bed until between
11pm and midnight. He naps in the day for about 3 hours (usually
starts nap around 1pm, goes till about 4pm). I am SO tired by the end
of the day, I'm just wiped out and feel underslept every day. I cannot
nap with him for enough time during the day to feel well rested. What
to do?

I've tried for several days in a row over the past several months to
cut his naptime short...he still goes to bed around 10 or 11pm.
Recently I've tried to completely eliminate his nap, still he goes to
bed late, and is just very tired but keeps going, I've done this for 2
days at a stretch, then we just go back to the old routine.

Is this a case of him just being "wired" this way? His father is also
a night owl, stays up every night until about 3am. There is NO WAY I
can get his Dad to go to bed earlier.

He does like to watch TV before bed, I have him watch very slow and
soothing things such as Mr. Rogers--nothing stimulating. Frankly, I'm
so tired, I don't have energy to play with him in the later evening.
I'm really out of ideas and so darn tired!

Should I just keep on insisting on cutting his naps short? How long
for naps? 1 hour? 1 1/2 hours? I've tried this so many times, but it
just hasn't changed his normal pattern--always goes back to staying up
very late! Should I stop all TV at night? Do more of a bedtime
routine at an earlier time? I'll try anything at this point, so that I
can get some sleep for myself (and how about some personal time for
myself!!!) Thanks very much in advance!! ---Sarah

bugsy wrote:

Hello, I have a 3 1/2 year old. He doesn't go to bed until between
11pm and midnight. He naps in the day for about 3 hours (usually
starts nap around 1pm, goes till about 4pm). I am SO tired by the end
of the day, I'm just wiped out and feel underslept every day. I cannot
nap with him for enough time during the day to feel well rested. What
to do?

I've tried for several days in a row over the past several months to
cut his naptime short...he still goes to bed around 10 or 11pm.
Recently I've tried to completely eliminate his nap, still he goes to
bed late, and is just very tired but keeps going, I've done this for 2
days at a stretch, then we just go back to the old routine.

Is this a case of him just being "wired" this way? His father is also
a night owl, stays up every night until about 3am. There is NO WAY I
can get his Dad to go to bed earlier.

He does like to watch TV before bed, I have him watch very slow and
soothing things such as Mr. Rogers--nothing stimulating. Frankly, I'm
so tired, I don't have energy to play with him in the later evening.
I'm really out of ideas and so darn tired!

Should I just keep on insisting on cutting his naps short? How long
for naps? 1 hour? 1 1/2 hours? I've tried this so many times, but it
just hasn't changed his normal pattern--always goes back to staying up
very late! Should I stop all TV at night? Do more of a bedtime
routine at an earlier time? I'll try anything at this point, so that I
can get some sleep for myself (and how about some personal time for
myself!!!) Thanks very much in advance!! ---Sarah



Why don't you go to bed when you're sleepy and let your husband put your
son to bed? If he's a night owl, too, it seems like he'd be available.

Clisby

Hey, great idea but hubby is WORKING late---no way I will cut into the
income-earning potential of the household. Thanks for the suggestion.
More ideas, please? Thanks! ---Sarah

In article . com,
"bugsy" wrote:

Should I just keep on insisting on cutting his naps short? How long
for naps? 1 hour? 1 1/2 hours? I've tried this so many times, but it
just hasn't changed his normal pattern--always goes back to staying up
very late!

A few months ago my son (almost three at the time) quit taking naps. He
didn't sleep any more at night and, quite frankly, it was awful -- I
think this is part of why he had such bad ADHD-type behavior. It took
almost a month before he started sleeping more at night. Now he's
settled into a regular sleeping pattern and almost never naps, and life
is much better.

My point is that maybe you need to cut the naps back, and give it a long
time for his clock to reset itself to sleep more at night.
--
Sara
accompanied by TK, number two, due in April of 2006

On 8 Dec 2005 09:13:33 -0800, "bugsy" wrote:

Hey, great idea but hubby is WORKING late---no way I will cut into the
income-earning potential of the household. Thanks for the suggestion.
More ideas, please? Thanks! ---Sarah

What time does your child get up in the morning?


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

On 8 Dec 2005 08:58:15 -0800, "bugsy" wrote:

Should I just keep on insisting on cutting his naps short? How long
for naps? 1 hour? 1 1/2 hours? I've tried this so many times, but it
just hasn't changed his normal pattern--always goes back to staying up
very late! Should I stop all TV at night? Do more of a bedtime
routine at an earlier time? I'll try anything at this point, so that I
can get some sleep for myself (and how about some personal time for
myself!!!) Thanks very much in advance!! ---Sarah

What is his bedtime routine?

If he does not have one, create one. And perhaps allow him to
listen to stories on tape for a while or to read in bed, but stay in
bed.

I would gradually make the actual time to get into bed earlier.

Note: you can't make him sleep, but you can ask him to stay in
his bed quietly for an hour or so before he would normally
fall asleep.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

"bugsy" wrote in message
Is this a case of him just being "wired" this way? His father is also
a night owl, stays up every night until about 3am. There is NO WAY I
can get his Dad to go to bed earlier.

He does like to watch TV before bed, I have him watch very slow and
soothing things such as Mr. Rogers--nothing stimulating. Frankly, I'm
so tired, I don't have energy to play with him in the later evening.

Well a couple of things, yes you should not let him watch TV before bed.
Believe it or not even the boring shows are stimulation for kids. If it were
me, since your husband is the night owl, let him have night time duty and
you go to bed. Also, your son is old enough that you can let him play by
himself if you don't feel like playing, but really he should be of an age
where you can put him to bed and tell him that he must remain in his
bedroom, but he can read or listen to some songs on a tape recorder, but he
has to stay in his room or bed. And then go to bed yourself.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

bugsy wrote:

Hey, great idea but hubby is WORKING late---no way I will cut into the
income-earning potential of the household. Thanks for the suggestion.
More ideas, please? Thanks! ---Sarah


Sure. At 9 p.m., put him in his bed (or in his room - I'm assuming at 3
1/2 he can get into bed by himself if he wants to.) Tell him he can
read, play, do whatever as long as he's reasonably quiet. Then you go
to bed, and get your sleep. You might need to work up to this
gradually, but the main point is - you need sleep, and you ought to be
able to get it. If he doesn't need sleep, he's entitled to stay awake -
but he's not entitled to bother you while he's doing it.

Clisby

"bugsy" wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello, I have a 3 1/2 year old. He doesn't go to bed until between
11pm and midnight. He naps in the day for about 3 hours (usually
starts nap around 1pm, goes till about 4pm). I am SO tired by the end
of the day, I'm just wiped out and feel underslept every day. I cannot
nap with him for enough time during the day to feel well rested. What
to do?

I've tried for several days in a row over the past several months to
cut his naptime short...he still goes to bed around 10 or 11pm.


Why? Who is in charge of bedtime? Do you wait until he is falling down
tired? IMO, it is time to set a reasonable bedtime routine. Whatever it is
it needs to be
- pleasant (reading, bath, cuddle, all of the above)
- consistent
- and trigger the time after which he remains quiet and in bed.



Recently I've tried to completely eliminate his nap, still he goes to
bed late, and is just very tired but keeps going, I've done this for 2
days at a stretch, then we just go back to the old routine.

Is this a case of him just being "wired" this way? His father is also
a night owl, stays up every night until about 3am. There is NO WAY I
can get his Dad to go to bed earlier.


I doubt it. From what I understand, sleep habits are more made than born.

He does like to watch TV before bed, I have him watch very slow and
soothing things such as Mr. Rogers--nothing stimulating. Frankly, I'm
so tired, I don't have energy to play with him in the later evening.
I'm really out of ideas and so darn tired!



Read up on the phenomenon of sleep association when other things put you to
sleep.

Should I just keep on insisting on cutting his naps short? How long
for naps? 1 hour? 1 1/2 hours? I've tried this so many times, but it
just hasn't changed his normal pattern--always goes back to staying up
very late! Should I stop all TV at night? Do more of a bedtime
routine at an earlier time? I'll try anything at this point, so that I
can get some sleep for myself (and how about some personal time for
myself!!!) Thanks very much in advance!! ---Sarah

bugsy wrote:
Hello, I have a 3 1/2 year old. He doesn't go to bed until between
11pm and midnight. He naps in the day for about 3 hours (usually
starts nap around 1pm, goes till about 4pm). I am SO tired by the end
of the day, I'm just wiped out and feel underslept every day. I cannot
nap with him for enough time during the day to feel well rested. What
to do?

I've tried for several days in a row over the past several months to
cut his naptime short...he still goes to bed around 10 or 11pm.
Recently I've tried to completely eliminate his nap, still he goes to
bed late, and is just very tired but keeps going, I've done this for 2
days at a stretch, then we just go back to the old routine.

Is this a case of him just being "wired" this way? His father is also
a night owl, stays up every night until about 3am. There is NO WAY I
can get his Dad to go to bed earlier.

I think people are somewhat wired to be larks or
night owls; however, I think there are also decent odds that
your son is overtired by the time you try to put him to bed
and that's why he has trouble falling asleep. You may be
missing your window of opportunity.

He does like to watch TV before bed, I have him watch very slow and
soothing things such as Mr. Rogers--nothing stimulating. Frankly, I'm
so tired, I don't have energy to play with him in the later evening.
I'm really out of ideas and so darn tired!

This may also be a problem. A little while ago,
I read a study that said that screen time can reset your
biological clock. So, the tv might be exactly what is
helping him through the hump where he's ready to go to
sleep, and then perking him up so that he's ready to
go for hours more. This may not work for all people,
but it certainly works for my husband. If he goes to
play on the computer after the kids go to bed, it'll
be after midnight before he starts to get tired. If
he is somehow denied access to his computer in the
evening, he'll be in bed by 10:30 and out like a light.
I'd cut out the evening screen time, institute some
really active outdoor play in the morning, cut the
afternoon nap a bit shorter, and put him down to
bed between 8 and 9 for a while (institute a nice
bedtime routine--maybe even include and evening
bath every night for a while to see if that helps
wind him down). See if you can make a go of that.
It might even help to try this out on a family
vacation or over the holidays when the normal routine
is already shaken up.

Best wishes,
Ericka