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Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 5th 07, 09:55 AM posted to misc.kids
Sarah Vaughan
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Posts: 443
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 4:38 pm, Banty wrote:

Do wring said relative's neck.


Yes, dissent from progressive orthodoxy must be silenced! Research on
problems with day care should be ignored!


I think the issue is not so much that people of a different opinion
should be silenced or ignored, as that they should have the tact not to
start telling someone that they *should* do things *this* way when they
don't know the whole story of the individual in question or why that
individual might be in a situation that means that that isn't a good option.

In this case, an important part of the whole story is that the OP needs
to keep her job. If that's the case, then a course of action that means
her losing it is not ultimately going to be in the family's best
interest, which means that it is not ultimately likely to be in the best
interest of this particular child, regardless of what general statistics
say. Therefore, laying a guilt trip on the OP about what she 'should'
be doing was not constructive and may well have been destructive. We
can all theorise about what we should be doing in an ideal world, but
the reality is that we live in non-ideal situations where compromises
are necessary.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

  #22  
Old December 5th 07, 11:57 AM posted to misc.kids
Welches
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Posts: 849
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward wrote:
I was all excited to get a spot at our neighbourhood daycare centre
for my 22-month old, who has been at home until now, but a naysayer
relative has made me wonder if I'm hurting my daughter more than doing
her good by putting her in daycare at this age, in winter, no less.


Asking whether daycare is harmful is a lot like asking
whether food is harmful. You don't know the answer without
knowing a lot more about the situation.

LOL. I like that!
I think that sums it up really.
If you're thinking about germs and illnesses then I don't think that's a big
worry unless they're immune compromised.
As to their mental state/development :-) it's going to depend on the child
and the care. Some children will have problems being sent away from mummy at
that age. Others will love to go and develop much better with peers around.
My #1 did much more stuff with me at home tha she showed them at preschool,
and even now at school. (They were always greeting me with "look she did
***" and I'd think "she's been doing that for a year at home") #2's the
other way, and she does so much more (other than reading) there than with
me.

My one concern if I was you is as you're keeping the younger one at home and
not her, couls it cause resentment that they're being sent away because of
the baby. As the baby's 9 months, I don't think it is likely to be an issue,
but it was the only cause for concern I had upon reading your post.
Debbie


  #23  
Old December 5th 07, 12:13 PM posted to misc.kids
Sue
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Posts: 613
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

IMO, good quality childcare is not going to harm a child. It's not like no
one else beside the mother should ever take care of the child. Children
thrive on other relationships in their lives. It really is a good thing for
children to have other trusting adults in their lives. They learn how to get
along with others. Children in good quality care are usually ahead of those
who stay home with no preschool or nothing. No study, I don't care who wrote
it, good or bad is going to tell you what is going to happen to your child,
only you can tell whether your child will thrive in the situation or not.
And if your gut tells you something is not right, then change it. It really
is none of your relatives business how you raise your child. And honestly,
it doesn't matter if you need to work or not, there is nothing wrong with a
mom having a career and enjoying it. I can't stand those people who try to
make working mothers feel guilty and the ones that stay at home is more
superior. It's not, it truly depends on the situation and family. Do what
you need to do and don't feel guilty about it.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

"Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward" wrote in message
...
I was all excited to get a spot at our neighbourhood daycare centre
for my 22-month old, who has been at home until now, but a naysayer
relative has made me wonder if I'm hurting my daughter more than doing
her good by putting her in daycare at this age, in winter, no less.

I know my daughter will benefit tremendously from being around other
children in a structured educational setting. She will be in a group
of 9 children, who are looked after by 2 teachers and one part-time
assistant.

I work full-time from home, and have a 9-month old here as well. He
will stay with me until he gets a spot at the daycare at 12 months.

The relative (whose neck I would love to wring right now) insists a
child should be kept at home until age 3.

I am doing this because I need to keep my job. Until now I had help
from my mother, but she leaves in a few days, after having been with
us for six months. Already a huge luxury!

What I'd love is to hear some positive stories, and if there's any
scientific backing to my relative's claims.



  #24  
Old December 5th 07, 02:31 PM posted to misc.kids
Stephanie[_2_]
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Posts: 693
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?


"Ericka Kammerer" wrote in message
. ..
Stephanie wrote:

You need to keep you job. Been there, done that. But more than any other
service you ever pay for, buyer beware.


The big challenge is that few people know how to evaluate
quality daycare or preschool programs, so many just sort of freeze
and don't ask a lot of questions or don't spend some real time in
the center to see for themselves how things are going.





And... how to differntiate a happy horse **** answer from an answer that
really speaks to the question. It is not easy to do!




While I
think that it is difficult to *create* a good classroom, it's one
of those things that if you only have to *evaluate* it, it's not
all that difficult. You may not know precisely what you'd need to
do to be a great childcare provider, but you'll know a good situation
when you see it if you spend some time there and drop in unannounced
on occasion.




I agree completely that unannounced drop ins are critical.




I'm not sure why people feel so inhibited about asking
to see classrooms in action, but that's ultimately what you need to
do. It's possible for the childcare providers to try to put on a
show for you, but the kids don't lie. You can see from their
behavior how things are going.




Also, walk quickly away from a provider who wont let you se them in action
unannounced.


The other negative aspect of full time child care (you did not mention if
it would be full time) that I observed when I was in child care myself
was that many full time working parents spend so much time getting
through the day, get the day done... that they never got to know their
children. Families who spent so little time with their children that they
could not solve things like eating issues, sleep issues or whatever. They
neither spent enough time with their kids to really understand the issue
nor did they ahve the will to do what it took to deal. They needed to get
so much done in the few hours between pick up and bed... Now I don't mean
to claim that this is pervasive. Truth be told, if you are aware of the
risk it is likely mitigated easily enough.


Absolutely. I've seen working parents in that situation,
and other parents working similar hours who are very well connected
to their children. I think it has a lot more to do with what you
do when you're around. After all, if you couldn't get to know your
kids if you weren't around them 24/7, then the traditional father
who works outside the home would be completely out of luck!
If you tally up the hours, the amount of time a working
parent (with something near a 40 hour work week and a reasonable
commute) is available to a child (with a reasonable bedtime, etc.)
is about the same amount of time that the child is with either
the other parent or a childcare provider. It's shorter on the
weekdays, but longer on the weekends. There's no reason a working
parent can't be plenty available to their children and get to know
them and deal with all those issues that come up. It's just a
choice. Not every parent elects to put in the time or effort, but
by and large, that's not just because of a job!

Best of luck. It is a difficult thing to work out. But YOU have the only
skills, knowledge, loving care to decide what is right for your family.
So keep that confidence with you no matter what you decide.


And, frankly, as the saying goes, there's no use crying
over spilt milk. If you really do have to work, then you have
to work, and obsessing over this sort of thing is one of the
most toxic things you can do. Find quality care, tune in to
your children, and respond when/if your gut tells you something
isn't right. Children are tremendously resilient. As someone
who grew up in an extended family setting, I firmly believe that
this notion that only parents can give proper, loving care to
a child is completely bogus. From time immemorial children
have had close bonds with adults other than their parents.
There's no reason why a good childcare provider can't be one
of those people. The trick is finding that high quality care,
but you do the best you can and respond as things unfold.
On top of that, if the nosy relative thinks your
child shouldn't be in daycare, then said relative can haul
her butt over and start providing the care that you need.
She's family, after all. If she's so all-fired concerned about
it, then perhaps she should do something about it! If not, then
she can keep her guilt trips to herself ;-)

Best wishes,
Ericka



  #25  
Old December 5th 07, 02:36 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
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Posts: 2,278
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

In article , Sarah Vaughan says...

Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 4:38 pm, Banty wrote:

Do wring said relative's neck.


Yes, dissent from progressive orthodoxy must be silenced! Research on
problems with day care should be ignored!


I think the issue is not so much that people of a different opinion
should be silenced or ignored, as that they should have the tact not to
start telling someone that they *should* do things *this* way when they
don't know the whole story of the individual in question or why that
individual might be in a situation that means that that isn't a good option.


Yes - it was a reaction to the busybody intrusiveness of said relative, not an
effort to undermine the First Amendment, LOL.

But now we also have proof that conservatives don't have a sense of humor ;-)


In this case, an important part of the whole story is that the OP needs
to keep her job. If that's the case, then a course of action that means
her losing it is not ultimately going to be in the family's best
interest, which means that it is not ultimately likely to be in the best
interest of this particular child, regardless of what general statistics
say. Therefore, laying a guilt trip on the OP about what she 'should'
be doing was not constructive and may well have been destructive. We
can all theorise about what we should be doing in an ideal world, but
the reality is that we live in non-ideal situations where compromises
are necessary.


Said relative can step in for the OP's mother, if he or she cares so strongly
about it.

Banty

  #26  
Old December 5th 07, 03:04 PM posted to misc.kids
Beliavsky
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Posts: 453
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 5, 3:55 am, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 4:38 pm, Banty wrote:


Do wring said relative's neck.


Yes, dissent from progressive orthodoxy must be silenced! Research on
problems with day care should be ignored!


I think the issue is not so much that people of a different opinion
should be silenced or ignored, as that they should have the tact not to
start telling someone that they *should* do things *this* way when they
don't know the whole story of the individual in question or why that
individual might be in a situation that means that that isn't a good option.


That standard should apply both to people who tell the OP to send to
her daughter to day care and to those who advise against it. But a
blanket statement "Your daughter will do just fine", made by someone
who knows neither the child or the day care center, raises no hackles,
except from me. My questioning such a blanket statement, without
telling what the OP what she should do, does upset people. There is a
double standard when it comes to discussing the merits of day care,
both in this group and the media in general. Some articles and books
discussing bias in the latter are

Fear and Loathing at the Day-Care Center
Kay S. Hymowitz
City Journal, Summer 2001
http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_..._loathing.html

Media, Academia Ignore Day Care's Downsides
By Sean Grindlay
November 7, 2003
http://www.aim.org/briefing/A103_0_5_0_C/

Day Care Deception: What the Child Care Establishment Isn't Telling Us
By Brian C. Robertson
Encounter Books
http://www.encounterbooks.com/books/daycaredeception/
  #27  
Old December 5th 07, 03:32 PM posted to misc.kids
Sarah Vaughan
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Posts: 443
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 5, 3:55 am, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 4:38 pm, Banty wrote:
Do wring said relative's neck.
Yes, dissent from progressive orthodoxy must be silenced! Research on
problems with day care should be ignored!

I think the issue is not so much that people of a different opinion
should be silenced or ignored, as that they should have the tact not to
start telling someone that they *should* do things *this* way when they
don't know the whole story of the individual in question or why that
individual might be in a situation that means that that isn't a good option.


That standard should apply both to people who tell the OP to send to
her daughter to day care and to those who advise against it.


It should apply to anyone who tries to tell a parent who has made a
decision about their child that they 'should' be doing something
different, without taking that person's individual situation into
account. I would indeed feel just as strongly if this was a woman who
did not feel it right to put her child into day care and was receiving
unsolicited advice that she should do so. The difference here is that
the OP herself feels day care to be appropriate for their situation.

But a
blanket statement "Your daughter will do just fine", made by someone
who knows neither the child or the day care center, raises no hackles,
except from me.


Because it was made in response to the same belief from the parent, who
does know both the child and the day care centre. It did strike me as a
bit sweeping, but I think there's a hell of a difference between
reassuring someone that they're capable of making the right decision and
trying to tell them that they should be making a different decision.


All the best,

Sarah
--
http://www.goodenoughmummy.typepad.com

"That which can be destroyed by the truth, should be" - P. C. Hodgell

  #28  
Old December 5th 07, 04:36 PM posted to misc.kids
Banty
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Posts: 2,278
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

In article ,
Beliavsky says...

On Dec 5, 3:55 am, Sarah Vaughan wrote:
Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 4:38 pm, Banty wrote:


Do wring said relative's neck.


Yes, dissent from progressive orthodoxy must be silenced! Research on
problems with day care should be ignored!


I think the issue is not so much that people of a different opinion
should be silenced or ignored, as that they should have the tact not to
start telling someone that they *should* do things *this* way when they
don't know the whole story of the individual in question or why that
individual might be in a situation that means that that isn't a good option.


That standard should apply both to people who tell the OP to send to
her daughter to day care and to those who advise against it. But a
blanket statement "Your daughter will do just fine", made by someone
who knows neither the child or the day care center, raises no hackles,
except from me. My questioning such a blanket statement, without
telling what the OP what she should do, does upset people.


Sarah answered this pretty well, and I point out that her question was about
whether or not she should wait until her child is three years old, and I've seen
nothing yet that would back up the relative's assertion.

Just like TV, or leaving kids with grandma, there are times are reasons where
it's a parent sloughing off responsibility with daycare, and time where it's
not. We do have a bias, but it's not so much pro-or anti-daycare ("YMMV" is our
motto), is a bias that the people posting here are considering carefully their
decisions.

I've only checked one of your references below (no time), but I see it again
cites the same single study, and Ericka is right that this study, if anything,
sees differences in the margins - as with anything some parents will not care.
On the other hand, for many of these children, daycare is a *refuge* from what
they would otherwise have at home.

There is a
double standard when it comes to discussing the merits of day care,
both in this group and the media in general.


But didn't *you* ballyhoo that it's that bastion of East Coast 'liberals', the
NY Times, that you first cited for an article describing the study??

Some articles and books
discussing bias in the latter are

Fear and Loathing at the Day-Care Center
Kay S. Hymowitz
City Journal, Summer 2001
http://www.city-journal.org/html/11_..._loathing.html

Media, Academia Ignore Day Care's Downsides
By Sean Grindlay
November 7, 2003
http://www.aim.org/briefing/A103_0_5_0_C/


Which is the one I looked at (I'm not very happy to be told to go read a whole
book, it being impractical, and authorship of a book not being a qualification
in my mind).

Again, the same one study, and lots of talk of "having it all". Having it
all, apparently, meaning working and raising children too. So I searched on
that term which describes those who have "had it all" for some decades, and
found only two matches in the entire article:

fathers

While there are over thirty matches for those who are described as unrealistic
for wanting to "have it all":

mothers

THAT, is bias.

Banty

  #29  
Old December 5th 07, 04:50 PM posted to misc.kids
Barbara
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Posts: 271
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 11:14 pm, Beliavsky wrote:
On Dec 4, 10:38 pm, Barbara wrote:

You carefully selected an article that said what you wanted it to


say.


Yeah, the New York Times is part of my vast right wing conspiracy. It
looks like Ericka and Akuvikate may have joined, since I think they
were talking about the same studies as the article.

Right wing conspiracy? What on earth are you talking about? I'm
talking about YOUR selection of articles. Unquestionably, there are
studies that refer to teh downside of daycare. Just as there are
studies that say the opposite.

Here are a couple:

Study Finds Major Day Care Benefits

http://www.socsci.uci.edu/~cohenp/strat/daycare.html

Potential Health Benefits of Child Day Care Attendance

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en... dexed=google

Non-Parental Day Care Has Short and Long Term Benefits for Children

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en... dexed=google

There is Evidence That Day Care Benefit Children's Well Being

http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...62941099902784


You deliberately ignored articles that set forth the advantages of daycare.


For better or for worse, Penelope needs this job. Unless you intend
to start supporting her family, you've done nothing to help her.
You've just thrown out a parade of unlikely horribles designed to make
her feel bad.


Stephanie first threw out the "parade of unlikely horribles", and I
don't think it was her intention to make the OP feel bad.

And what was YOUR intention?

Barbara
  #30  
Old December 5th 07, 05:51 PM posted to misc.kids
[email protected]
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Posts: 2
Default Am I hurting my child by putting her in daycare at 22 months?

On Dec 4, 5:00 pm, "Stephanie" wrote:
"Lady Penelope Creighton-Ward" wrote in ...


many full time working parents spend so much time getting through the day,
get the day done... that they never got to know their children. Best of luck. It is a difficult thing to work out. But YOU have the only
skills, knowledge, loving care to decide what is right for your family. So
keep that confidence with you no matter what you decide.


You make an excellent point here. Even more that children's need for
social interaction with other children, I would argue that children
desperately need consistency. And while it is unfortunately true that
good childcare is scarce, we would always choose to raise our children
differently than other people. I believe that this is why it is so
easy to find parenting flaws within others, rather than in ourselves.
We will always be the best care providers available to our children.
But YOU have the only
skills, knowledge, loving care to decide what is right for your family. So
keep that confidence with you no matter what you decide.

I would have to agree with this statement. Ultimately, you are the
one who your children entrust to make the best decissions for them.
And again, keep that confidence that your children look to you for
that. The best option for your family could be to leave your children
with a grandparent while you work, or to leave your child at a day
care center with other children.

My advice to parents who are seeking a child care provider for their
children, talk with the other parents of the children at the center.
Ask them about why they trust the provider or any concerns they might
have. Ask about noticing appropriate or inappropriate disciplinary
actions. Try to be as educated and informed about a program as
possible. Make sure you make strong, educated decissions that you
know with confidence that you will want to stick with. Because, from
my experience, consistency is the key to raise children that trust.
 




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