Good Newsweek article

shinypenny" wrote
And then there's the whole FUD factor: Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt. We are
in a society that has become increasingly paranoid over everything ...
terrorists, hackers, identity theft, and a whole lot more, and usually
the paranoia is way out of proportion to the reality. As parents we use
car seats, insist on bike helmets, worry about nitrates in the cooked
carrots, it goes on and on.

Count in to that day care providers. You hear countless horror stories
about the parents who carefully screened the day care provider, and the
person ended up shaking the baby to death. Or, for example, on recent
Law & Order show, the providers were running a meth lab in the day care
while the children napped!

Or around here, where most pre-schools don't take kids who aren't potty
trained. According to the school where we're likely going to send E in the
fall (she'll be just shy of 2.5), that's often because of the horrific
lawsuit in Long Beach about 15 years ago where the parents decided that the
teachers were molesting the kids. It turned out that the children had been
interviewed badly and ideas had been planted in their heads, but not before
several people's lives were ruined, including some who did jail time. Now,
most of the schools around here won't even hug a child for fear of a
lawsuit. Thank goodness I found one that does hug and kiss the kids as I'd
hate for E to spend three mornings a week with people who profess to care
about her but won't change her diaper, give her a hug when she needs one or
kiss a boo-boo when it happens.
--
Melissa (in Los Angeles)
Mum to Elizabeth 4/13/03
and one due early 3/05

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 13:06:06 -0800, Irene wrote:

That implies huge government subsidies - and where does that money come
from?

That's why you have taxes, but since taxing is so low in the US, this will
never work here. Even in many European countries parents are struggling
with affordable daycare. Employers can pay part of the bill, the remainder
is paid by the parents. In spite of subsidies, this often still adds up to
an above average monthly income for fulltime daycare. At that point, you
might as well hire a nanny if you have more than 1 kid.

It is an extremely complicated problem, and I don't think a solution will
be found any time soon.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to four tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04, 20 May'04 & 28 Oct'04)
preggers with twins EDD August'05
guardian of DH (33)

When I was in elementary school, my friend Cori was the one with the best
birthday parties... Her mom went all out (square dancing, big theme
parties, etc.) and we all looked forward to them. I don't think *my* mom
ever felt threatened by it, and even though I loved Cori's parties, mine
were fun, too (set up the sprinkler and throw the kids into the backyard
and let them entertain themselves). For me... while I *like* the
thought of coming up with creative parties and fun traditions for Micah, I
have a feeling that the reality will be more like my mom's versions.
Although we'll have to move to Hawaii if I want to toss the kids into the
backyard in November...

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04

Sue wrote:

I don't happen to be raising my kids with all the activities and
needing
them to be gifted like in the article. I don't buy matching plates
and so
on, but I do try to make them happy as much as I can. One friend of
my DD
(who is 12) had a sleepover/skating party and rented a limosine for
the
night. Another friend rented a pony for a half birthday. My kids see
this
stuff and then ask if they can have the same thing.

"No, Sweetie, your friends are spoiled and will grow up to be useless,
you don't want to be useless, do you?"

I can't compete with
that and I don't want to, but there is a little part of me that is a
little
bit jealous and feeling incompetent.

I can understand the jealousy, but don't let it make you feel
incompetent! I think that the parent who has the guts to say, "NO," to
the endless stream of organized activities should be proud of herself!

There's a joke here about some parents being 30% less stressed, but I'm
going to try to hold myself back...

Not that I would do it just because
someone else is, but it's still there and it bothers me that our
society has
come to that. But, I do know that there is an underlying pressure for
my
kids to be the best at everything. It comes from hearing other moms
at
school brag about their kids. They ask me what soccer team my kids
play on
and when I say they don't they become quiet and move on to someone
else who
is in their clique. I have pretty much said F*** them.

Good for you, those stupid wenches don't know how to have a
conversation, that's all. I'd be tempted to say, "Gosh, what with
Junior's pre-Ph.D. coursework, and DD's prospects for the 2012
Olympics, we simply don't have time for (sneer) neighborhood soccer."
Let them wonder if you're serious...

These newsgroups are
not good for a parent who is going against the tide because just
about every
post is about reading to your babies in utero to make them smart,
buying
only educational toys, not letting watch TV and having them read at
an early
age, etc.... It's just unnerving that's all.

The way I figure it, there are quite a few ways to get from here to
Washington DC. You can fly, you can take the train, you can drive up
through Ohio, or south through Kentucky. You can take the Pennsylvania
turnpike, but you might get lost in Delaware. But the point is that
all of those different paths, country roads and highways, rivers and
railroads, will eventually land you in the same place. So you really
ought to take the path that fulfills you and makes you sane, because
you'll get there.

My poor sainted mother, I was addicted to caffeine (via breastmilk) for
my entire first two years. I slept, literally, 45 minutes at a time.
She read to me constantly (because she could do it sitting down which
was similar to sleep!) and as a result I could read before I was 3. I
was in all the G&T stuff, I was a pretty good pianist and cellist when
I could be persuaded to practice. I got ridiculous scores on my SAT's,
and so on. But you know what, I also dropped out of college as a
sophomore and moved to the Big City to live and work for a while. I
was depressed and I didn't know what I wanted to do with my life, and I
couldn't take the pressures of a big university. Basically, all of
those early advantages, all of that giftedness, was a total wash by
college. Now, I went back and got my degree (paid for it myself, still
paying for it, actually) the hard way, and I am happy now working in a
totally different field (went from special ed to rocket science, hee).
But seriously, all of that early giftedness was a wash by college, and
there are plenty of kids who were objectively not as smart as I was in
early high school who are doing way better than I am now.

I dated two guys in high school - one was second in our class. He went
on to Yale, wanted to be a doctor... Last I heard from him he was
temping as a secretary in our hometown. The other guy had every
advantage in the world, rich parents, went to Notre Dame, has a degree
in law, passed the bar... Last I heard he was living on a friend's
couch, and functioning as her kid's nanny. I guess maybe both of them
are happy, I'm really not sure. They sure aren't where we thought
they'd be...

My point is that early success isn't a predictor for future success.
Ask any teacher. They've seen it a hundred times. The best and the
brightest end up moving back in with mom and dad for 10 years after
college. The kids who had to work at it a little more end up making
$70,000 a year right out of college.

So, anyway, don't let it get you down. I think strong roots are what
enable kids to grow to be huge successes, and you get those roots at
home, not on the soccer field.

Amy

Beach Mum wrote:

I just want to mention (please don't flame me) that someone women (my SIL,
for example) have a lovely time doing this. She just threw a fabulous
'Princess' party for her 3 yr. old with dresses for everyone, a castle cake,
matching streamers, invitations, plates, etc. and, I'm sure, fabulous party
favors. However, she loves doing this and is very good at it. I feel sorry
for the women with whom she is 'friends', though, who feel that now she's
raised the bar. I certainly don't feel that way as she and I both know that
I'm good at other things so won't be throwing and fancy theme party for E.
However, I'm sure there are enough women who aren't as sure of themselves
who feel obligated to keep up with other mums when they do something like
this.

I have little patience for this attitude. To me, that's the
culture of mediocrity speaking--no one can do well at anything, because
if you do, you'll **** off someone who can't do well at it. Well, we
all have strengths and weaknesses. I'm not going to play down my
strengths so that you don't feel bad, and I'm not going to feel bad
when you're fabulous at something I'm not good at (though I might
be a bit envious of your skill--that's okay, I'm a big girl and I
won't fall to pieces at the notion that someone can outdo me at
any number of things I suck at).

I know mums like the ones talked about in the article and I thought they
were exclusive to my (reasonably well-off) part of Southern California
(which is kooky to begin with). I find it very sad that it's a nationwide
phenomena and that I've just lucked into a group of friends who aren't like
this.

Are all these other people "like this?" Or is it just our
defensiveness making us assume that? If someone throws a great party
with all the trimmings, do we automatically assume that she's out to
raise the bar, or that she's materialistic and trying to show off?
Maybe she has a group of friends who are all enjoying her party throwing
ability and congratulating themselves that the folks in their group
aren't "like this." ;-)

Heck, most of spend two hours at the park each morning playing in the
sand and on the climbers and swings. We're not obesessing over pre-schools
(who wants to spend $15k a year for a toddler anyway) and several of the
mums have decided to delay pre-school until their children turn 3 or even
3.5.

And again, maybe the folks putting their toddlers in preschool
are just doing it because it works for their families, and not
necessarily because they think they have to? Heck, Genevieve is
going to preschool next year. It's in our church (a familiar place
she loves) and she'll probably have a neighborhood friend as a teacher.
I'll get a few extra hours to work without having to get a babysitter
and she'll have great fun playing with the other kids. Works for me
(though thank goodness it isn't going to run is $15k/year! ;-) On
the other hand, such a situation didn't work for my first, who
didn't start preschool until 3.5 (which I consider optional even
then--I put him in so I'd have some one-on-one time with his
toddler brother).
Frankly, I think the vast majority of us are just making
the choices we think are right for our situations and our families.
We get in trouble when we try to judge others' actions against our
own situations. That's doomed to be crazy making. I don't see
why people even start.

Best wishes,
Ericka

"I know that for me, and for many women I know, part time work is the
answer."

I'd love to teach one class/semester... so if I don't get any of these
jobs, I'll look into adjucting.

I was thinking over what I wrote earlier, and I'm realizing that for me,
being supermommy would be a way to 'justify' having my degree but not
working outside the home like I'm 'supposed' to. I'm not proud of this
attitude/tendency, and as I said earlier, given my other personality
traits, I think it's a pretty safe bet that I wouldn't turn into
supermommy anyway -- which of course would make me feel guilty all over
again... :P But for women who have been raised/educated to 'be all you
can be' as it were, being supermommy becomes a way to sublimate the
education and drive and expectations -- and, probably even more
importantly (and sadly!!), it's a way to live vicariously through your
kids.

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04

Irene wrote:

Heh - that just goes to show you the competitive mindset! I didn't
even consider pre-school until 3!


My kids have gone to an early childhood centre from birth, I don't think
it's competitive, of course I don't dump and run, it's not that kind of
centre. Playcentre is a parent co-operative http://playcentre.org.nz and
we stay with our kids and are their educators. Children can be left on a
session from the age of 2 1/2 but I generally stay with mine because I
like to share in their play and learning.

Andrea

Melania wrote:
wrote:

I plan to have a fabulous career, but I can do that well into my
80s.

I'm glad someone else thinks this way. I see no problem with getting
really career-focused later in life. Of course, we also have met our
deadline of having kids who can be finished high school and leaving
home by the time we're 50, so that helps.

Oooh, gosh, when the one I'm cooking is 18, I'll be... 47! All right!!
I've got time for one more! Hahaa...

And working for my husband. That can be interesting.

Wow, that's uncanny. I'm in the same boat. Working for/with the
husband
can certainly be interesting!!

No kidding! Do you work from home, or from an office? We do aerospace
engineering research, primarily on a contractual basis, for the
government. He does all the hard work, and I keep the books and play
secretary. It was great fun going to the OB for the first time...

Admit Nurse: Where do you work?
Amy: (Name of Company), I'll bet most people don't bring their bosses
with them to their prenatal appointments, do they?
Admit Nurse: No..... Not usually....
Amy: That's ok, he's the one that got me into this situation to begin
with!

Hahahaa....

We're planning on bringing baby to the office (outside our home), that
should be interesting!!

Amy

On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:16:56 -0500, Sue wrote:

And you're considered a bad parent if your child doesn't perform in the
"gifted level."
snip
On another newsgroup, a mom is terrified to give her 3 week old baby a
pacifier because it doesn't fit into the AP parameters.

No offense, but those things I have found to be very typical for US-born
parents. Many of them seem to lack a good amount of common sense in what
they do, and that is also part of the problem. They force themselves to do
it exactly according to the rules in book A, and punish themselves if they
cannot keep up. That is a major social problem. Just look at the strive
for including creationism as a valid alternative to evolution. They even
want to take the Bible literally. That makes no sense.

BUT, this problem is *not* specific to the US, although it maybe more
pronounced. In the Netherlands the kids from the last decade are called
the Backseat Generation, as they spend more time in the car going from one
activity to the next than actually doing fun things. So the basic problem
must lie elsewhere.

Well I do. I think the government could make child care more easier and
offer things like other countries do so we can raise our children.

You mention a lot of countries with fantastic solutions. But you fail to
ask whether the same problem exists there. I know for a fact it does. So
although government regulations will help, they won't keep women from
putting the pressure on themselves.

--
-- I
mommy to DS (July '02)
mommy to four tiny angels (28 Oct'03, 17 Feb'04, 20 May'04 & 28 Oct'04)
preggers with twins EDD August'05
guardian of DH (33)

I agree with Ericka here. I think we should try and give people the
benefit of the doubt -- they're doing what they think is best for their
children and family; they're not giving their kid violin lessons and
breastfeeding their baby to make all the other moms look bad.

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04