Lying

On Fri, 13 Feb 2004 08:22:57 -0800, "Circe" wrote:

........but sadly, in the story below, miss the point.

In the last day and a half, I have caught my 6.5yo son telling
bald-faced
fibs at least three times. In most cases, the fibs seem to be
motivated by
either fear on his part that he's going to get in trouble for
doing/not
doing something or by a desire to avoid something (like taking cough
medicine!). Here are the three lies I know about since Wednesday
night:

Your careful count is more indicative of YOUR investment in this than
his. YOU can't let it go. Thus you freeze him into THIS pattern.

1. I walked into the kitchen while he was at the end of opening a bag
of
Valentine's candy. He knew he didn't have my permission to open it,
and when
he saw me, he told me his sister did it. I knew that was not true
because
I'd seen him. The thing is, I wouldn't have been particularly upset
with him
if he had simply told me he'd opened it without asking; I was livid
that
he had lied to me and tried to blame his sister so she'd get into the
trouble he thought he was avoiding with the fib. We had a very long
and
serious talk about lying, and why it's a bad idea (the fib almost
always
gets you into worse trouble than the 'fessing up and people can't
trust you
when you are telling the truth because you're so prone to lying). I
nearly
decided to punish him by not letting him go to a friend's birthday
party on
Saturday, but he seemed very contrite and ashamed, so I let him off
the
hook. Buuuuut...

The key to this is the response you'd give if it were a friend. And
that is varied. With a friend: You might simply ignore and let it go
as an attempt to save face; You might just smile and joke about it the
all too obvious truth, as in "hey, yah got me there."; or you might
just say, "hon, can I get you some more of these?"

Why must your CHILD, but not your friend, be treated like a criminal
under interrogation?

2. Yesterday, the school called me to come get him because he wasn't
feeling
well. He was coughing a lot, so on the way to the van, I told him I'd
give
him some cough medicine when we got home. He hates cough medicine. He
tried to tell me the school nurse had given him some already, which I
of
course knew was a lie because the school nurse can't give a child any
medication without express permission from the parent. Again, we had
the
talk about lying.

I'm sure you did. At the end of this I'll tell you what works. In the
meantime, can you see the traps you are setting for him that MAKES him
think that lying is the only way to deal with unpleasantness?

3. Last night, he was taking a bubble bath. I went in to check on
him. He
told me he'd put the bath soap back up on the shelf already,
obviously
trying to make me believe he'd used it. I knew he had not used it or
even
taken it down because the bubbles were still copious (you know how
soap or
shampoo always kills bubble bath bubbles). It was no big deal,
because I
always figure the soap suds in the bubble bath are sufficient for
washing
with, but here he was, trying again to get out of trouble he wasn't
even
in by telling me a lie!

And if THAT isn't proof YOU have anchored this behavior in him by your
obsession with it I don't know what would be.

I am just at my wit's end with this.

Yep, I'd say that's pretty accurate. You are a victim of the old, if
an adult lies, oh well, and if a child lies it's catastrophic and MUST
be stopped.

The lies are not terrible ones by any
stretch of the imagination, and I even understand why he is telling
them.

Then why do you make them such a big issue...huge in fact?

What bothers me is a) he's telling lies to get out of trouble he's
not even
in and b) repeatedly getting into trouble with me for telling them
seems to
be having no effect on his propensity to do it again. At this point,
I have
told him that I really cannot trust him on anything any longer
without
some evidence of the truth. And that disappoints me.

Mmmm....well, now that's a great demonstration of love. You forget who
has the real responsibility here.

What I'm hoping is that some of you can reassure me that this is just
a
phase

Yep, sure can. Sure do. Sure want to warn you you are turning it most
assuredly into something MORE than a phase though.

and that his repeated untruths aren't evidence of some more serious
character failing.

Other than taking his examples from adults around him who lie as a
matter of course and rename it anything but lies? No. It's not a
character failing.

How many names for "lie" to you have for your own? When you tell that
traffic cop you were only going at the speed of the traffic flow? When
you tell your friend that disaster of a dress really makes her hair
color come out beautifully? When you tell a child "The Tooth Fairly
Left It?" When you tell the child that if they do that their eyes will
stay stuck that way?"

See, WE lie all the time, but we call it fun or play or saving some
money on our auto insurance, or preserving our friendships, or just
greasing the wheels of social discourse.

He's sure he is supposed to learn that himself and you are the coach,
the opponent, the partner, all rolled into one. And My guess is his
growing logical mind (6.5 is the key fact here...all kids have some of
this challenge just as those analytical thought brain pathways make
their massive connections) is bugged no end that you aren't really
cooperating.

Additionally, I'd love to hear some suggestions of
"logical consequences" for lying beyond the fact that nobody believes
you
any more.

Okay.

When you walk in and he's taken the candy the correct "logical
consequence" is to say, "oh gosh I've got to go buy more now for your
sister" and drop the damn subject.

Or if something is spilled or broken the first words out of your mouth
should NOT be "did you do that?" (What a prime invitation to
lie...you are demanding he lie, you are begging him to lie), but
rather, you get the broom and dust pan and I'll get the mop honey."
with not another word of comment until things are cleaned up.

Then, and only then, and with considerable tact and moral support for
HIM just as you would give a friend, you might ask if he'd like to
learn how adults use misinformation or socially acceptable lies and
avoid criminal lies, and let him understand he is not skilled with the
polite social lie.

And that YOU and he have an investment in truth together BECAUSE HE
CAN TRUST YOU NOT TO BEAT HIM UP WITH IT.

Can he?

Can you trust yourself? Relax.

TEACH YOUR CHILD TO LIE, that is teach the difference between criminal
lying and social grease.

Or do you really expect him to confess, when he's older, to the
traffic offficer, "Yes maam, I was doing 70 in a thirty mph zone, so
slap on the cuffs."

Or, to his wife, "Yes honey, that dress makes your hips look a yard
wide and really shows up that dull grey in your hair."

Do yah, huh, is that what you want.

This child is asking, for the first time in a real way, with the
capacity to make his first forays into true analytical analysis (brain
capacity just peaked for this at 6 or so) of a nagging social reality
and YOU are buggin' out on him.

Calm down. Get real...really real and teach, no...TEACH, stop judging
and condemning.

Ah, kids, can't live without 'em, can't kill 'em!

Well, continue messing with his attempt to learn how to socialize and
you actually COULD have a hand in his getting himself killed someday.

I can see the honest training popping up with a mugger holding a knife
to his throat, "do, sucker, do you like me, do you want to give me
your money, you want to give it to me, don't you?"

Your son could react reflexively and tell the truth the whole truth
and nothing but the truth, instead of having had a mom that clued him
in on the social necessity to tell fibs for safety and profit.

Or continue on until he learns how to lie to YOU more skillfully and
lose his trust forever.

He'll go the same place for information on how to lie, if you don't
get with it, that kids go when they don't have good sex education from
their parents. His peers.

NOW is the time for trust building.

Take your pick.

Kane