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#141
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I am now so lost and confused I don't know which end is up. LOL.
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Becca Momma to two boys Big Guy 3/02 and Wuvy-Buv 8/05 |
#142
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What has hapenned to this group?
Doan wrote:
On 22 Jan 2006, 0:- wrote: Doan wrote: On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, toto wrote: On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 15:32:47 -0800, Doan wrote: On Sat, 14 Jan 2006, toto wrote: On 14 Jan 2006 06:34:33 -0800, "Ron" wrote: As I have said before, the 1 or two decades of biased "research" you have available that may or may not support your theories pale in comparison when placed next to the 10 to 20 Millennia of unbiased historical fact. I am not going by research, but on my own experience as both a parent and teacher. So your experience outtrumped the experience of hunmanity??? In preschool classes in particular, you can tell by behavior which children were spanked and which were not. The children who are spanked are much more likely to hit other kids when they are frustrated or angry. Not that other children don't hit, but they get the idea of solving problems using words much more quickly. And how do know which children were spanked and which were not? Is this data part of the school record? We ask parents what discipline techniques they use and we observe how they act around the children when they are at school as well. And, of course, the children role play in the housekeeping corner. If you don't think that the preschool teachers know a lot about what goes on in your home, you are kidding yourself because 3 to 5 year olds are the greatest mimics in the world and they often talk in their parents voices. Do you know how "unscientific" this method is? Do you keep records? Do you allow for confounding factors? If you think that preschool teachers know lot about what's going on in EVERY student house, YOU ARE KIDDING yourself! Where did toto claim it was scientific? She didn't. I pointed it out to her that! Which since she didn't make the claim, and you did not provide "scientific" proof yourself, was a pointless criticism. Useless and diverting. Of course they keep records. It's the bane of school teachers. The excessive record keeping. What do you think progress reports to parents requires? Each childs file in the office? On spanking??? Yes, she told you that. If she asks the parents what discipline methods they use so you suppose they don't say they spank? Or deny it if they do? How could they not allow for confounding factors? Because it wasn't SCIENTIFIC! Then everyone that comments on their experience is required to report here only if they have conducted a study according to scientific reseach protocols? You'd hold the parents that come here that spank to this standard, would you? Who spends more time with a child in terms of hours and repetition (five day a week contact for 9 months of the year)? The parents! And not divided among 20-30 children as the case with the classroom. Sorrry. YOu are wrong. The parents have the children when the children sleep 9 to 10 hours a night. Parents these days are very busy, with both often working. The children are in afterschool daycare often as well. The 6 hours of uninterupted observation of children in the company of OTHER CHILDREN is exactly what toto was discussing. How they act with other children. Social behaviors, just like the scientific studies discussed in this ng so very many times. The parents may well not see them much at all with other children. 16 hours a day are taken up with school (like more considering bus travel and afterschool day care) leavening the parent at best, only 8 hours. Do you think they spend those 8 hours in the observation that teachers do for 6? They have other children over and watch the social interactions and behaviors? How do kids find enough time for TV? R R R R R You do know how many hours children average watching TV each week? Right? Do the parents watch there TV watching behaviors? toto said: "If you don't think that the preschool teachers know a lot about what goes on in your home, you are kidding yourself because 3 to 5 year olds are the greatest mimics in the world and they often talk in their parents voices." What's that got to do with "science," Doan? Nothing! Yep. So why bring up science other than to divert, dodge, mislead and thereby lie? Are you going to try and tell toto that children to not, for instance, use the same language their parents use? They they do not reflect the attitudes and biases of their parent? That children this age are not mimicing their parents? I don't know. You tell me. YOu don't know, yet you know that parent's should decide whether or not to spank. Interesting. And yes, I'll tell you. Children mimic their parents rather a lot. They also act out in ways that reveal much about their live when away from the observer. What they see on TV. What they see with other children and their parents when visiting. What they see and hear on the bus. Etc. You do realise your answer, "you tell me" and "I don't know" is very revealing in itself. You have a great number of opinions about children for someone that does not know. Including opinions about what others know about children. Or that them doing so does not reflect what goes on in the home? It migth and again, it might not! It isn't all that hard to figure out. Teachers are required in all states, as mandatory reporters to notify child protection agenices of suspected abuse. Do you think the state thinks they don't have insight into home life, or can't observe and draw valid conclusions? If a child comes to school with belt marks on their legs does the teacher not know something about what goes in the home...particularly if she asks the child..which is highly likely? Huh? What does this have to do with child abuse? What do belt marks on a child's legs have to do with "child abuse?" Gosh, you tell me. I don't know. 0;- How could they not know a great deal about what goes on at home given the propensity for kids to talk about their home life? Because they are not there! Can you tell if someone drinks a lot in their home by how they act in public? I can. It's obvious, as with a neighbor, when they come out the door, stagger to their car, and back over their mailbox as they leave. That and the stack of wine, liquor and beer bottles in their recycle bins. If the child comes to school consistently marked, and it's not consistent with those marks left by play accidents, then it's time to check and see if they are being abused. Often that is the case. Certain kinds of marks, by the way, simply don't happen from other causes. A child might get a burn on one place on their body, but not repeated patterns of burns over time (some partially healed and some not) without abuse. Marks made by a coat hanger are very specific. So are those made with a belt if the buckle end is used on the child. Think teachers don't see these things? Think again. And why did you provoke again with a an insult like, "YOU ARE KIDDING yourself!" yelled at toto? That's not the Golden Rule your parents taught you, is it? She informs you, and you scream at her? Is that what you came to believe as a result of being spanked, that you have to escalate? LOL! why don't you ask toto to see if i insult her? She might not be aware. Or care. Or wish to get into it with us. I asked YOU the question, and YOU are not answering, again. She did not yell at you. Did I say she did? Nope. You said you don't insult unless the other person does. And teacher's classrooms have been the classic laboratory for behavior investigations of children and their lives. There is a good reason to use the classroom rather than other settings, such as playgrounds (though they have been used on rare occasions), or the home, though it too has been used. LOL! Here you go with your "formidable research skill" again! It as part of my profession for a number of years. Do you wish to argue that school classrooms are NOT a common child behavioral research location? And that somewhere else is more common? "Pima Community College District Course Outlines for Early ... ... Assertive discipline; Glasser Model; Ginott Model; Dreikurs Model; Adlerian Model; ... principles, knowledge, and skills learned in classroom and laboratory in real ... http://www.pima.edu/~curonline/catcu...ines/ece-o.htm - 71k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages" LOL! The nervous giggle at having been caught. To suggest that teachers don't have insight into homelife by the child's actions and revelations in the classroom is very much kidding yourself, Doan. Now yell back at me and call me stupid. I don't have to. You just proved it! ;-) That I'm stupid? Posting information is stupid? That SOME homelife is not revealed has to be true. But where else would it be more revealed, when it is, than in the classroom? LOL! Another nervous giggle when you can't respond and have been caught in yet another stupid mistake. I expect an answer to that question. Where would you get better information on what goes in in the home than from the classroom? How available is the home, compared to the classroom to anyone collecting such information? What artificial inhibiting constraints might be involved in attempting to do in home observations that do not occur in the classroom when the observer is the familiar teacher? Can the teacher's report be more trusted than the parent's report on a child's behavior? If not, why not? How about a home visit? ;-) You think the parent is going to not have a mitigating effect on the child's behavior? Where are the other children to allow a social behaviors observation? Are you a classroom teacher? Full time so that you develop a trust relationship with children? There is more reason for the term "in loco parentis" than just to assign responsibility. LOL! Sorry to have embarassed you. Have you observed children that are not spanked mixed with children that are and seen their behaviors? Yes! I saw YOU! In other words, you have lost the debate and now have to resort to nonsense. Can't answer the question, or won't. I see. If not how can you judge the validity of toto's experience? Why should toto have to answer to your attacks when what she is doing is relating her experiences and observations? I didn't attack her. You yelled. Not like you don't KNOW WHAT ALL CAPS MEAN IN A COMMENT. That is your most frequent mode of "debate." Attack. And you mode is what? Calling others a "smelly-****"? No, dodging, attacking, provoking. Refusing to answer while demanding other's do. Instead of asking questions to learn more you ask them to attack. You have a years long history of it, so don't bother to deny it. LOL! You seem to have a lot of embarassment in this exchange. For instance, such rhetorical questions as 'Do you know how "unscientific" this method is?' So is it? I do not know. I do know that reseachers collectin information from teachers a great deal. Are they wrong to do so? Does it compromise the scientific method? 0:- And I said the question was rhetorical. Your question was not a question for information but to claim that her method is not scientific, without asking if she had ever done any, or participated in any scientific study. What a pointless but attacking question that is. Of course she knows. So what? So she knows it is not science and yet you wanted me to believe that??? Believe what? That her observations have value? Do you think they don't? If so why? Do you think they do not reflect reality? A teacher could not work with a class and the children in it effectively if the teacher were not correct most of the time in their observations, any more than you could drive down the street without a wreck if yours were not. So, do you do scientific observations driving? She was not trying in particular to be scientific and in fact anecdote is but a small part of any investigation..but it can be useful to the scientist to collect experiencial information. Many reputable studies include them. And various forms of observation is ALL a teacher has. LOL! "Unscientific" anecdotal evident is useful to scientist??? Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... ;-) Yes, it certainly is. Collected, tabulated, compared, they are quite useful. And it's very logical to presume so. Your question is nothing more than an insulting attack. You are insulting because you are pretending she's trying to be scientific or should be and is not doing so. You are fishing for ways to attack. LOL! And you were not insulting when you call others "smelly-****"??? I don't recall claiming I don't insult. Do you? Logic and the anti-spanking zealotS.... ;-) You claimed you don't insult unless you are insulted first. I posted citations of instances where you do indeed. In fact your next questions and statements are a "you must use science to be right" further attack. LOL! More discomfort? I wonder why? "Do you keep records? Do you allow for confounding factors? If you think that preschool teachers know lot about what's going on in EVERY student house, YOU ARE KIDDING yourself!" And your last sentence is obviously incorrect. You have NO scientific proof smile that teachers do not know "lot" about what's going on in every student house. What is "lot?" LOL! So a "lot" is "LOL!" I thought so. And why must it be "every?" On day one of the school year, they may know nothing. By the end of that day they have started to. By school year end they are going to know a great deal you cannot know, and in fact, other than the parent, no one else would know more than the teacher. LOL! You can't answer, so you nervously giggle. They only need to know and can find out by asking, as she told you, about spanking and home discipline, for the purposes of this discussion. But they are likely to know considerable detail down to the name of pet rat and how many in her last litter. LOL! Very revealing. I gather you were spanked. I must be very observent or psychic, eh? You obviously wish, rather than deal with and discuss her experiences and what meaning those might have, to engage her in a "you are not doing science" debate so you can attack the lack of scientific rigor of her exerience. snipping the rest of you ludricous babble. ;-) You mean more "LOL!" was being too revealing? You couldn't respond because you did not have an argument. Your dodging today has taken on the amateurish nature of the newbie troll. You need more practice. Have a nice day! Let me see. Lots of sun today. After lots of rain. My garden loves it. I lifted another huge climbing rose today, trunks on it over an inch thick, and transplanted it to a better spot over by the entryway to my house. It will, when it comes back, along with the other two, make a lovely shady passageway between the carport and the flowerbed as one approaches the front door. Deep red roses. Not my favorite but my wife is fond of them. Dug a bunch of carrots the Elk didn't manage to get and took them over and left them on the porch of the folks that provide my horse compost. Sort of getting what comes out of one end to provide for the other end, presuming they'll feed some to their horses. What else did I do today? Oh yea, installed the backlighting behind my row of computers, printers, and scanner. Very dramatic shining up the cedar wall against the light pine ceiling and brings in more light in the winter darkness. "Nice day!?" I had a wonderful day. YOU were the frosting on it. Thanks. Doan Ever yours, 0:- -- Isn't it interesting that the more honest an author appears to be, the more like ourselves we think him. And the less so, how very alien he doth appear? Kane 2006 |
#143
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The logic of an anti-spanking zealotS
Kane said: "Reading it is not the same as having read it. At that time I had not completed reading it, but it was a delight to read." LOL! Doan |
#144
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What has hapenned to this group?
That happens a lot on this group becca.
"beccafromlalaland" wrote in message .com... I am now so lost and confused I don't know which end is up. LOL. -- beccafromlalaland |
#145
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What has hapenned to this group?
Jeremy James wrote: That happens a lot on this group becca. becca, you might want to look into the posting history of this person on Usenet. He appears to have a spanking fetish and apparently comes here to engage people in conversations to that end. pun intended Any discussion related to "spanking" get's them off, usually. Some especially like to converse with the unsuspecting. http://groups.google.com/group/alt.p...01ef58d3117 c http://groups.google.com/group/soc.s...20a979d80c3cff "beccafromlalaland" wrote in message .com... I am now so lost and confused I don't know which end is up. LOL. -- beccafromlalaland |
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