(IL.) Boy dies in DCFS custody

[[email protected]]

Friday, August 22, 2003

Boy dies in DCFS custody

12-year-old hanged himself at hospital

By Steve Silverman
Pantagraph staff

Copyright © 2003, Pantagraph Publishing Co. All rights reserved.

http://tinyurl.com/ku3m

--
Dennis Deakin
State Director:Illinois
CPSWatch, Inc.
http://www.cpswatch.com/il

[Destroycps!]

Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!!

familyfree
> Friday, August 22, 2003
> Boy dies in DCFS custody
> 12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
> By Steve Silverman
> Pantagraph staff
>
> Copyright © 2003, Pantagraph Publishing Co. All rights reserved.

Destroycps!
I'm sure glad we have the © info! I don't know what we would have done
without it!

> http://tinyurl.com/ku3m

Destroycps!
There's nothing wrong with shortening the URL but you should also C&P
the whole article. Tinyurl could go down, and even the Pantagraph could
change URLs or start charging to see articles. Furthermore, some people
in restrictive office setting can get the newsgroups but not the web.
Finally, some people, particualrly those with slow connections, often
hesitate to click on a link.

[My comments on the article in brackets]

Boy dies in DCFS custody
12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
By Steve Silverman
Pantagraph staff
BLOOMINGTON -- Twelve-year-old Ronald Hamilton was buried Thursday,
about two months after the state removed him from his home to ensure his
safety.
The Bloomington boy died Aug. 15 from massive injuries he suffered a few
days earlier when he hanged himself with bed linen at The Pavilion, a
psychiatric hospital in Champaign, according to court records.

[A "psychiatric hospital" by CPS standards is simply a lock-down
institution that has 24-hour doctor presence. CPS sends lots of kids to
these hellholes, and nobody form the public ever gets to look inside.]

He'd been under a suicide watch, records said.

Ronald's mother, Angela Hamilton, said her son had no history of mental
illness, but his psyche rapidly deteriorated after he and his
10-year-old brother were placed in foster care in Ivesdale, a small
village on the Champaign-Piatt County line.
"I don't think he meant to do it," she said. "He was trying to make a
plea for help because he didn't want to go back to the foster home."
Angela Hamilton contends that the state Department of Children and
Family Services overreacted by removing her sons on June 17.
Hamilton denies having an anger-management or substance-abuse problem,
or exposing her children to domestic violence, as prosecutors alleged in
seeking temporary custody for DCFS.

[Same ol' junk CPS lays on everybody]

Judy Renner, chief prosecutor of the abuse and neglect division of the
McLean County state's attorney's office, could not be reached for
comment.
Ronald's death highlights the dilemma child welfare officials face on a
daily basis.

[Here comes the justification.]

They have to weigh the dangers of allowing a child to remain in a
potentially dangerous situation against the trauma a child can suffer
when suddenly taken from his or her family.
"It's tough to adjust, certainly," said DCFS spokeswoman Jill Manuel. "I
think some of these kids handle these adjustments better than others."
"This has not happened before on my watch, but you always live with the
hypothetical possibility that it could," said McLean County Circuit
Judge Ronald Dozier, who presides over abuse and neglect cases.

["Hypothetical"? She means inevitable.]

"You also live with the hypothetical possibility that if you leave the
kids in the home, they could end up dead," the judge said.

[BS spin control. They didn't save that kid; they killed him.]

Family problems
In the early 1990s, Angela Hamilton's three sons were removed from her
home. She acknowledged that she was unable to provide adequate care
because of a drinking problem.
She said she regained custody 10 months later after going through
treatment. Hamilton said she stayed sober for eight years before she
started drinking again about a year ago; she claimed alcohol hasn't been
a problem.
According to court records, DCFS was called in May after Angela Hamilton
was arrested in connection with an altercation in which she and her
sister rear-ended each others' cars and then got in a fight.
Ronald and his 10-year-old brother -- the third son is now an adult --
reportedly were present during the fight.
Interviewed by authorities, the boys reported domestic violence in the
home. They recalled arguments between their mother and her boyfriend and
described an incident in which he caused a cut by accidentally hitting
her with a phone, court records said.
Angela Hamilton insisted her boyfriend is not abusive.
"He never hit me, he never hit the kids," she said.
But DCFS wasn't convinced, and the boyfriend refused to get a domestic
violence assessment or participate in services.

[Good for him. I'm serious.]

A safety plan was implemented barring him from living at the home and
having contact with the children, court records said.

[Where are these court records coming form? Usually, the public isn't
allowed to see anything.]

The children were removed about two weeks later after a DCFS worker saw
the boyfriend at the home for a second time in the presence of the
children.
Angela Hamilton claimed her boyfriend stopped by while the boys were
out, and they came home unexpectedly before he had a chance to leave.
Angela Hamilton said Ronald was extremely unhappy in his foster home and
repeatedly asked to come home during their weekly visits.
She said Ronald was sent to The Pavilion for an evaluation in July after
lashing out by becoming unusually aggressive toward his brother.
He then was returned to his foster home in Ivesdale.
Angela Hamilton said her son was returned to The Pavilion after she
visited with him on Aug. 5 at her home.
She said DCFS did not notify her that he returned to The Pavilion until
Ronald hanged himself on Aug. 11.
He spent several days on a ventilator before he was removed from life
support on Aug. 15.
Ronald's brother is now being cared for by his maternal grandmother.
Contact Steve Silverman

Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroy dfs!!!!!!!!!!

[[email protected]]

"Destroycps!" > wrote:

>
> familyfree
> > Friday, August 22, 2003
> > Boy dies in DCFS custody
> > 12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
> > By Steve Silverman
> > Pantagraph staff
> >
> > Copyright © 2003, Pantagraph Publishing Co. All rights reserved.
>
> Destroycps!
> I'm sure glad we have the © info! I don't know what we would have done
> without it!

Who is "we?"

>
> > http://tinyurl.com/ku3m
>
> Destroycps!
> There's nothing wrong with shortening the URL but you should also C&P
> the whole article.

I do, at the CPSWatchlive site. You have your style, I have mine. And
reasons. Thanks for taking your time, reposting for other's and your
appreciated input.


Tinyurl could go down, and even the Pantagraph could
> change URLs or start charging to see articles. Furthermore, some people
> in restrictive office setting can get the newsgroups but not the web.
> Finally, some people, particualrly those with slow connections, often
> hesitate to click on a link.
>
> [My comments on the article in brackets]
>
> Boy dies in DCFS custody
> 12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
> By Steve Silverman
> Pantagraph staff
> BLOOMINGTON -- Twelve-year-old Ronald Hamilton was buried Thursday,
> about two months after the state removed him from his home to ensure his
> safety.
> The Bloomington boy died Aug. 15 from massive injuries he suffered a few
> days earlier when he hanged himself with bed linen at The Pavilion, a
> psychiatric hospital in Champaign, according to court records.
>
> [A "psychiatric hospital" by CPS standards is simply a lock-down
> institution that has 24-hour doctor presence. CPS sends lots of kids to
> these hellholes, and nobody form the public ever gets to look inside.]
>
> He'd been under a suicide watch, records said.
>
> Ronald's mother, Angela Hamilton, said her son had no history of mental
> illness, but his psyche rapidly deteriorated after he and his
> 10-year-old brother were placed in foster care in Ivesdale, a small
> village on the Champaign-Piatt County line.
> "I don't think he meant to do it," she said. "He was trying to make a
> plea for help because he didn't want to go back to the foster home."
> Angela Hamilton contends that the state Department of Children and
> Family Services overreacted by removing her sons on June 17.
> Hamilton denies having an anger-management or substance-abuse problem,
> or exposing her children to domestic violence, as prosecutors alleged in
> seeking temporary custody for DCFS.
>
> [Same ol' junk CPS lays on everybody]
>
> Judy Renner, chief prosecutor of the abuse and neglect division of the
> McLean County state's attorney's office, could not be reached for
> comment.
> Ronald's death highlights the dilemma child welfare officials face on a
> daily basis.
>
> [Here comes the justification.]
>
> They have to weigh the dangers of allowing a child to remain in a
> potentially dangerous situation against the trauma a child can suffer
> when suddenly taken from his or her family.
> "It's tough to adjust, certainly," said DCFS spokeswoman Jill Manuel. "I
> think some of these kids handle these adjustments better than others."
> "This has not happened before on my watch, but you always live with the
> hypothetical possibility that it could," said McLean County Circuit
> Judge Ronald Dozier, who presides over abuse and neglect cases.
>
> ["Hypothetical"? She means inevitable.]
>
> "You also live with the hypothetical possibility that if you leave the
> kids in the home, they could end up dead," the judge said.
>
> [BS spin control. They didn't save that kid; they killed him.]
>
> Family problems
> In the early 1990s, Angela Hamilton's three sons were removed from her
> home. She acknowledged that she was unable to provide adequate care
> because of a drinking problem.
> She said she regained custody 10 months later after going through
> treatment. Hamilton said she stayed sober for eight years before she
> started drinking again about a year ago; she claimed alcohol hasn't been
> a problem.
> According to court records, DCFS was called in May after Angela Hamilton
> was arrested in connection with an altercation in which she and her
> sister rear-ended each others' cars and then got in a fight.
> Ronald and his 10-year-old brother -- the third son is now an adult --
> reportedly were present during the fight.
> Interviewed by authorities, the boys reported domestic violence in the
> home. They recalled arguments between their mother and her boyfriend and
> described an incident in which he caused a cut by accidentally hitting
> her with a phone, court records said.
> Angela Hamilton insisted her boyfriend is not abusive.
> "He never hit me, he never hit the kids," she said.
> But DCFS wasn't convinced, and the boyfriend refused to get a domestic
> violence assessment or participate in services.
>
> [Good for him. I'm serious.]
>
> A safety plan was implemented barring him from living at the home and
> having contact with the children, court records said.
>
> [Where are these court records coming form? Usually, the public isn't
> allowed to see anything.]
>
> The children were removed about two weeks later after a DCFS worker saw
> the boyfriend at the home for a second time in the presence of the
> children.
> Angela Hamilton claimed her boyfriend stopped by while the boys were
> out, and they came home unexpectedly before he had a chance to leave.
> Angela Hamilton said Ronald was extremely unhappy in his foster home and
> repeatedly asked to come home during their weekly visits.
> She said Ronald was sent to The Pavilion for an evaluation in July after
> lashing out by becoming unusually aggressive toward his brother.
> He then was returned to his foster home in Ivesdale.
> Angela Hamilton said her son was returned to The Pavilion after she
> visited with him on Aug. 5 at her home.
> She said DCFS did not notify her that he returned to The Pavilion until
> Ronald hanged himself on Aug. 11.
> He spent several days on a ventilator before he was removed from life
> support on Aug. 15.
> Ronald's brother is now being cared for by his maternal grandmother.
> Contact Steve Silverman
>
>

--
Dennis

[[email protected]]

"Destroycps!" > wrote:
> Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!!
>
> familyfree
> > Friday, August 22, 2003
> > Boy dies in DCFS custody
> > 12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
> > By Steve Silverman
> > Pantagraph staff
> >
> > Copyright © 2003, Pantagraph Publishing Co. All rights reserved.
>
> Destroycps!
> I'm sure glad we have the © info! I don't know what we would have done
> without it!
>
> > http://tinyurl.com/ku3m
>
> Destroycps!
> There's nothing wrong with shortening the URL but you should also C&P
> the whole article. Tinyurl could go down, and even the Pantagraph could
> change URLs or start charging to see articles. Furthermore, some people
> in restrictive office setting can get the newsgroups but not the web.
> Finally, some people, particualrly those with slow connections, often
> hesitate to click on a link.
>
> [My comments on the article in brackets]
>
> Boy dies in DCFS custody
> 12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
> By Steve Silverman
> Pantagraph staff
> BLOOMINGTON -- Twelve-year-old Ronald Hamilton was buried Thursday,
> about two months after the state removed him from his home to ensure his
> safety.
> The Bloomington boy died Aug. 15 from massive injuries he suffered a few
> days earlier when he hanged himself with bed linen at The Pavilion, a
> psychiatric hospital in Champaign, according to court records.
>
> [A "psychiatric hospital" by CPS standards is simply a lock-down
> institution that has 24-hour doctor presence. CPS sends lots of kids to
> these hellholes, and nobody form the public ever gets to look inside.]
>
> He'd been under a suicide watch, records said.
>
> Ronald's mother, Angela Hamilton, said her son had no history of mental
> illness, but his psyche rapidly deteriorated after he and his
> 10-year-old brother were placed in foster care in Ivesdale, a small
> village on the Champaign-Piatt County line.
> "I don't think he meant to do it," she said. "He was trying to make a
> plea for help because he didn't want to go back to the foster home."
> Angela Hamilton contends that the state Department of Children and
> Family Services overreacted by removing her sons on June 17.
> Hamilton denies having an anger-management or substance-abuse problem,
> or exposing her children to domestic violence, as prosecutors alleged in
> seeking temporary custody for DCFS.
>
> [Same ol' junk CPS lays on everybody]
>
> Judy Renner, chief prosecutor of the abuse and neglect division of the
> McLean County state's attorney's office, could not be reached for
> comment.
> Ronald's death highlights the dilemma child welfare officials face on a
> daily basis.
>
> [Here comes the justification.]
>
> They have to weigh the dangers of allowing a child to remain in a
> potentially dangerous situation against the trauma a child can suffer
> when suddenly taken from his or her family.
> "It's tough to adjust, certainly," said DCFS spokeswoman Jill Manuel. "I
> think some of these kids handle these adjustments better than others."
> "This has not happened before on my watch, but you always live with the
> hypothetical possibility that it could," said McLean County Circuit
> Judge Ronald Dozier, who presides over abuse and neglect cases.
>
> ["Hypothetical"? She means inevitable.]
>
> "You also live with the hypothetical possibility that if you leave the
> kids in the home, they could end up dead," the judge said.
>
> [BS spin control. They didn't save that kid; they killed him.]
>
> Family problems
> In the early 1990s, Angela Hamilton's three sons were removed from her
> home. She acknowledged that she was unable to provide adequate care
> because of a drinking problem.

You may have overlooked this one: They 'first' took away her children, and
then she 'stipulated' (e.g. acknowledged) to being "unable to provide
adequate care because of a drinking problem" under the guise that this was
the only way she could/would ever get them back. i.e. 'the carrot.'

> She said she regained custody 10 months later after going through
> treatment. Hamilton said she stayed sober for eight years before she
> started drinking again about a year ago; she claimed alcohol hasn't been
> a problem.
> According to court records, DCFS was called in May after Angela Hamilton
> was arrested in connection with an altercation in which she and her
> sister rear-ended each others' cars and then got in a fight.
> Ronald and his 10-year-old brother -- the third son is now an adult --
> reportedly were present during the fight.
> Interviewed by authorities, the boys reported domestic violence in the
> home. They recalled arguments between their mother and her boyfriend and
> described an incident in which he caused a cut by accidentally hitting
> her with a phone, court records said.
> Angela Hamilton insisted her boyfriend is not abusive.
> "He never hit me, he never hit the kids," she said.
> But DCFS wasn't convinced, and the boyfriend refused to get a domestic
> violence assessment or participate in services.
>
> [Good for him. I'm serious.]
>
> A safety plan was implemented barring him from living at the home and
> having contact with the children, court records said.
>
> [Where are these court records coming form? Usually, the public isn't
> allowed to see anything.]
>
> The children were removed about two weeks later after a DCFS worker saw
> the boyfriend at the home for a second time in the presence of the
> children.
> Angela Hamilton claimed her boyfriend stopped by while the boys were
> out, and they came home unexpectedly before he had a chance to leave.
> Angela Hamilton said Ronald was extremely unhappy in his foster home and
> repeatedly asked to come home during their weekly visits.
> She said Ronald was sent to The Pavilion for an evaluation in July after
> lashing out by becoming unusually aggressive toward his brother.
> He then was returned to his foster home in Ivesdale.
> Angela Hamilton said her son was returned to The Pavilion after she
> visited with him on Aug. 5 at her home.
> She said DCFS did not notify her that he returned to The Pavilion until
> Ronald hanged himself on Aug. 11.
> He spent several days on a ventilator before he was removed from life
> support on Aug. 15.
> Ronald's brother is now being cared for by his maternal grandmother.
> Contact Steve Silverman
>
> Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroy dfs!!!!!!!!!!

--
Dennis

[Dan Sullivan]

wrote in message >...
> "Destroycps!" > wrote:
> > Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > familyfree
> > > Friday, August 22, 2003
> > > Boy dies in DCFS custody
> > > 12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
> > > By Steve Silverman
> > > Pantagraph staff
> > >
> > > Copyright © 2003, Pantagraph Publishing Co. All rights reserved.
> >
> > Destroycps!
> > I'm sure glad we have the © info! I don't know what we would have done
> > without it!
> >
> > > http://tinyurl.com/ku3m
> >
> > Destroycps!
> > There's nothing wrong with shortening the URL but you should also C&P
> > the whole article. Tinyurl could go down, and even the Pantagraph could
> > change URLs or start charging to see articles. Furthermore, some people
> > in restrictive office setting can get the newsgroups but not the web.
> > Finally, some people, particualrly those with slow connections, often
> > hesitate to click on a link.
> >
> > [My comments on the article in brackets]
> >
> > Boy dies in DCFS custody
> > 12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
> > By Steve Silverman
> > Pantagraph staff
> > BLOOMINGTON -- Twelve-year-old Ronald Hamilton was buried Thursday,
> > about two months after the state removed him from his home to ensure his
> > safety.
> > The Bloomington boy died Aug. 15 from massive injuries he suffered a few
> > days earlier when he hanged himself with bed linen at The Pavilion, a
> > psychiatric hospital in Champaign, according to court records.
> >
> > [A "psychiatric hospital" by CPS standards is simply a lock-down
> > institution that has 24-hour doctor presence. CPS sends lots of kids to
> > these hellholes, and nobody from the public ever gets to look inside.]
> >
> > He'd been under a suicide watch, records said.
> >
> > Ronald's mother, Angela Hamilton, said her son had no history of mental
> > illness, but his psyche rapidly deteriorated after he and his
> > 10-year-old brother were placed in foster care in Ivesdale, a small
> > village on the Champaign-Piatt County line.
> > "I don't think he meant to do it," she said. "He was trying to make a
> > plea for help because he didn't want to go back to the foster home."
> > Angela Hamilton contends that the state Department of Children and
> > Family Services overreacted by removing her sons on June 17.
> > Hamilton denies having an anger-management or substance-abuse problem,
> > or exposing her children to domestic violence, as prosecutors alleged in
> > seeking temporary custody for DCFS.
> >
> > [Same ol' junk CPS lays on everybody]

Oh yeah?

What did the kids say about what was going on re violence?

Didn't these kids witness their mother crashing her car into her
sister's car?

And then didn't they watch the police arrest their mother for it?

Didn't they witness their mother fight with her sister and her
boyfriend?

Didn't the mother admit she started drinking again?

Yeah, things were comin up roses for these kids.

> > Judy Renner, chief prosecutor of the abuse and neglect division of the
> > McLean County state's attorney's office, could not be reached for
> > comment.
> > Ronald's death highlights the dilemma child welfare officials face on a
> > daily basis.
> >
> > [Here comes the justification.]
> >
> > They have to weigh the dangers of allowing a child to remain in a
> > potentially dangerous situation against the trauma a child can suffer
> > when suddenly taken from his or her family.
> > "It's tough to adjust, certainly," said DCFS spokeswoman Jill Manuel. "I
> > think some of these kids handle these adjustments better than others."
> > "This has not happened before on my watch, but you always live with the
> > hypothetical possibility that it could," said McLean County Circuit
> > Judge Ronald Dozier, who presides over abuse and neglect cases.
> >
> > ["Hypothetical"? She means inevitable.]

No it doesn't.

If it was inevitable all the kids removed by CPS would kill
themselves.

> > "You also live with the hypothetical possibility that if you leave the
> > kids in the home, they could end up dead," the judge said.
> >
> > [BS spin control. They didn't save that kid; they killed him.]

These kids wouldn't have been removed if the mother took the agreement
seriously.

> > Family problems
> > In the early 1990s, Angela Hamilton's three sons were removed from her
> > home. She acknowledged that she was unable to provide adequate care
> > because of a drinking problem.
>
> You may have overlooked this one: They 'first' took away her children, and
> then she 'stipulated' (e.g. acknowledged) to being "unable to provide
> adequate care because of a drinking problem" under the guise that this was
> the only way she could/would ever get them back. i.e. 'the carrot.'
>
> > She said she regained custody 10 months later after going through
> > treatment.

You may have overlooked the fact that this woman acknowledged her
alcohol problem, took appropriate measures, and regained custody of
her children ten months later.

Kids aren't carrots or any other kind of vegetable.

They're her kids.

> > Hamilton said she stayed sober for eight years before she
> > started drinking again about a year ago; she claimed alcohol hasn't been
> > a problem.
> > According to court records, DCFS was called in May after Angela Hamilton
> > was arrested in connection with an altercation in which she and her
> > sister rear-ended each others' cars and then got in a fight.
> > Ronald and his 10-year-old brother -- the third son is now an adult --
> > reportedly were present during the fight.
> > Interviewed by authorities, the boys reported domestic violence in the
> > home. They recalled arguments between their mother and her boyfriend and
> > described an incident in which he caused a cut by accidentally hitting
> > her with a phone, court records said.
> > Angela Hamilton insisted her boyfriend is not abusive.
> > "He never hit me, he never hit the kids," she said.
> > But DCFS wasn't convinced, and the boyfriend refused to get a domestic
> > violence assessment or participate in services.
> >
> > [Good for him. I'm serious.]
> >
> > A safety plan was implemented barring him from living at the home and
> > having contact with the children, court records said.

Another moron boyfriend with Greg Hanson logic, refuse to be evaluated
even by yer own psychologist, refuse to participate in parenting
classes ... and then the worst possible consequence occurs, the
boyfriend gets barred from the house and having contact with the kids

OR CPS'll take the kids away!!!

> > [Where are these court records coming form? Usually, the public isn't
> > allowed to see anything.]
> >
> > The children were removed about two weeks later after a DCFS worker saw
> > the boyfriend at the home for a second time in the presence of the
> > children.

CPS gave him two chances???

I wouldn't have given him one.

> > Angela Hamilton claimed her boyfriend stopped by while the boys were
> > out, and they came home unexpectedly before he had a chance to leave.
> > Angela Hamilton said Ronald was extremely unhappy in his foster home and
> > repeatedly asked to come home during their weekly visits.
> > She said Ronald was sent to The Pavilion for an evaluation in July after
> > lashing out by becoming unusually aggressive toward his brother.
> > He then was returned to his foster home in Ivesdale.
> > Angela Hamilton said her son was returned to The Pavilion after she
> > visited with him on Aug. 5 at her home.
> > She said DCFS did not notify her that he returned to The Pavilion until
> > Ronald hanged himself on Aug. 11.
> > He spent several days on a ventilator before he was removed from life
> > support on Aug. 15.
> > Ronald's brother is now being cared for by his maternal grandmother.
> > Contact Steve Silverman
> >
> > Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroy dfs!!!!!!!!!!

An alcoholic starts boozing again, brawling in public, fighting at
home, crashing her car into other people's cars, getting arrested,

all in front of her children.

What a shame, Dan

[Destroycps!]

familyfree
> > > Copyright © 2003, Pantagraph Publishing Co. All rights
reserved.
> > > http://tinyurl.com/ku3m

Destroycps!
> > I'm sure glad we have the © info! I don't know what we
> > would have done without it!

familyfree
> Who is "we?"

Destroycps!
The pronoun refers to everybody who reads what you copied. I was being
sarcastic. You posted the useless copyright info but left practically
everything else out.

Destroycps!
> > but you should also C&P
> > the whole article.

familyfree
> I do, at the CPSWatchlive site.

Destroycps!
What's wrong with the Google archive? It's more accessible, searchable,
and reliable.

And as I argued before, some office people can see newsgroups but not
the web. Their browsers are disabled but their email clients work.

familyfree
> You have your style, I have mine.

Destroycps!
That's not an argument. It's not a matter of artistic style. Posting an
article in text gives the article exposure. If you don't want exposure,
then why post it in the first place?

familyfree
> And reasons.

Destroycps!
You're welcome to state them.

familyfree
> Thanks for taking your time, reposting for other's and your
> appreciated input.

Destroycps!
Thank you for the politeness, but that doesn't mean we still can't
disagree on technique. It would be newsgroup-phony if I were to ignore
your posting deficiencies because I agree with your general position on
CPS.

[Dan Sullivan]

"Destroycps!" > wrote in message
t...
> Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Destroycps!
> > > > [Same ol' junk CPS lays on everybody]
>
> Dan
> > Oh yeah?
> >
> > What did the kids say about what was going on re violence?
> >
> > Didn't these kids witness their mother crashing her car into her
> > sister's car?
> >
> > And then didn't they watch the police arrest their mother for it?
> >
> > Didn't they witness their mother fight with her sister and her
> > boyfriend?
> >
> > Didn't the mother admit she started drinking again?
> >
> > Yeah, things were comin up roses for these kids.
>
> Destroycps!
> Do you mean roses for the funeral? You can argue forever about how bad
> the mom was. But whatever the situation was, it wasn't so bad that the
> kid was being driven to suicide.

You know for a fact that it wasn't the mother's behavior that drove this
little boy to suicide?

Let's examine the facts.

This little boy knew he was placed in FC before when his mother's drinking
was out of control.

And now it was happening all over again.

Hoping to be returned to his mother, he watched her deny her problem with
alcohol, deny her problem with anger management, and he watched her and her
boyfriend ignore the agreement that kept their family together.

Don't ya think he BEGGED his mother to admit what was known by the police,
CPS, and the Judge at Family Court so he could go home?

From the news story,

"Angela Hamilton said Ronald was extremely unhappy in his foster home and
repeatedly asked to come home during their weekly visits."

He asked HER to come home because he knew SHE had the key!

But she refused to admit the obvious.

> Article
> > > > "This has not happened before on my watch, but you always live
> with the
> > > > hypothetical possibility that it could," said McLean County
> Circuit
> > > > Judge Ronald Dozier, who presides over abuse and neglect cases.
>
> Destroycps!
> > > > ["Hypothetical"? She means inevitable.]
>
> Dan
> > No it doesn't.
>
> Destroycps!
> It's inevitable that some kids will be so depressed about being
> locked-up away form home that they will commit suicide.

This boy was depressed because his mother chose to ignore the road that HE
KNEW got his family reunited before.

<<<snip>>>

> Destroycps!
> You're blaming the mom for the kid killing himself because the mom
> couldn't satisfy CPS?

If the mother wasn't drinking again, crashing cars, getting arrested, and
brawling in public and at home, ALL in front of her children, CPS never
would have been involved in these people lives.

And what kept the boy in FC was the mother refusal to provide a safe place
for him and his brother to live.

> Article
> > > > A safety plan was implemented barring him from living at the home
> and
> > > > having contact with the children, court records said.
>
> Dan
> > Another moron boyfriend with Greg Hanson logic, refuse to be evaluated
> > even by yer own psychologist, refuse to participate in parenting
> > classes ... and then the worst possible consequence occurs, the
> > boyfriend gets barred from the house and having contact with the kids
> > OR CPS'll take the kids away!!!
>
> Destroycps!
> Parenting classes and psychologist evaluations do no good for the cause
> of parents in a CPS case.

You believe this is true in what percentage of cases?

> If these services were applied to a boyfriend,
> they would have the same non-beneficial effect.

In what percentage of cases?

> Frequently, CPS will in a roundabout way advocate for the split-up of a
> couple. If a couple then splits up to appease CPS, they will find that
> doing so didn't help their
> cause. CPS will simply say that there still is an attachment that will
> redevelop later. CPS will also come up with other faults of the
> parent(s).

Roundabout?

I've seen CPS TELL women that if they don't get their boyfriend out of the
house their kids will be placed in FC.

> Dan
> > An alcoholic starts boozing again, brawling in public, fighting at
> > home, crashing her car into other people's cars, getting arrested,
> >
> > all in front of her children.
> >
> > What a shame,
>
> Destroycps!
> No. That's not the shame of this story. The story is about a kid killing
> himself because he was hopelessly stuck in foster custody.

If he believed he was hopelessly stuck in foster care it was because his
mother refused to do any of the things HE BELIEVED would get him out.

Keep in mind, the first step to this story is the mother goin back to the
booze.

If not for Step #1 you would never get to all the other things that
happened...

> Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroy dfs!!!!!!!!!!

And what would your solution have been, Nehmo?

Dan

[Dan Sullivan]

"Destroycps!" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> [My comments on the article in brackets]
>
> Boy dies in DCFS custody
> 12-year-old hanged himself at hospital
> By Steve Silverman
> Pantagraph staff
> BLOOMINGTON -- Twelve-year-old Ronald Hamilton was buried Thursday,
> about two months after the state removed him from his home to ensure his
> safety.
> The Bloomington boy died Aug. 15 from massive injuries he suffered a few
> days earlier when he hanged himself with bed linen at The Pavilion, a
> psychiatric hospital in Champaign, according to court records.
>
> [A "psychiatric hospital" by CPS standards is simply a lock-down
> institution that has 24-hour doctor presence. CPS sends lots of kids to
> these hellholes, and nobody form the public ever gets to look inside.]
>
> He'd been under a suicide watch, records said.
>
> Ronald's mother, Angela Hamilton, said her son had no history of mental
> illness, but his psyche rapidly deteriorated after he and his
> 10-year-old brother were placed in foster care in Ivesdale, a small
> village on the Champaign-Piatt County line.
> "I don't think he meant to do it," she said. "He was trying to make a
> plea for help because he didn't want to go back to the foster home."
> Angela Hamilton contends that the state Department of Children and
> Family Services overreacted by removing her sons on June 17.
> Hamilton denies having an anger-management or substance-abuse problem,
> or exposing her children to domestic violence, as prosecutors alleged in
> seeking temporary custody for DCFS.
>
> [Same ol' junk CPS lays on everybody]

The mother was arrested for intentionally crashing her car into her sister's
car.

Or is that not an anger-management problem?

And does an alcoholic who starts drinking again not have a substance-abuse
problem?

> Judy Renner, chief prosecutor of the abuse and neglect division of the
> McLean County state's attorney's office, could not be reached for
> comment.
> Ronald's death highlights the dilemma child welfare officials face on a
> daily basis.
>
> [Here comes the justification.]
>
> They have to weigh the dangers of allowing a child to remain in a
> potentially dangerous situation against the trauma a child can suffer
> when suddenly taken from his or her family.
> "It's tough to adjust, certainly," said DCFS spokeswoman Jill Manuel. "I
> think some of these kids handle these adjustments better than others."
> "This has not happened before on my watch, but you always live with the
> hypothetical possibility that it could," said McLean County Circuit
> Judge Ronald Dozier, who presides over abuse and neglect cases.
>
> ["Hypothetical"? She means inevitable.]
>
> "You also live with the hypothetical possibility that if you leave the
> kids in the home, they could end up dead," the judge said.
>
> [BS spin control. They didn't save that kid; they killed him.]

Would the boy have been suicidal if he knew his mother was going to
counseling, AA meetings, parenting classes, and anger-management classes?

IOW doing the same things that got him out of FC the first time?

Or was he freaked out because his mother failed to comply with the safety
plan she had agreed to in Court?

> Family problems
> In the early 1990s, Angela Hamilton's three sons were removed from her
> home. She acknowledged that she was unable to provide adequate care
> because of a drinking problem.
> She said she regained custody 10 months later after going through
> treatment. Hamilton said she stayed sober for eight years before she
> started drinking again about a year ago; she claimed alcohol hasn't been
> a problem.
> According to court records, DCFS was called in May after Angela Hamilton
> was arrested in connection with an altercation in which she and her
> sister rear-ended each others' cars and then got in a fight.
> Ronald and his 10-year-old brother -- the third son is now an adult --
> reportedly were present during the fight.
> Interviewed by authorities, the boys reported domestic violence in the
> home. They recalled arguments between their mother and her boyfriend and
> described an incident in which he caused a cut by accidentally hitting
> her with a phone, court records said.
> Angela Hamilton insisted her boyfriend is not abusive.
> "He never hit me, he never hit the kids," she said.
> But DCFS wasn't convinced, and the boyfriend refused to get a domestic
> violence assessment or participate in services.
>
> [Good for him. I'm serious.]

A 12 yo boy kills himself partially because his mother's boyfriend refused
to comply with the Court ordered safety plan which kept his family together.

Can you make sure the boyfriend gets a copy of your post, Nehmo?

I'd like him to know that someone thinks he did something good.

I'm serious.

Dan

[Kane]

"Destroycps!" > wrote in message >...
> Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Destroycps!
> > > > [Same ol' junk CPS lays on everybody]
>
> Dan
> > Oh yeah?
> >
> > What did the kids say about what was going on re violence?
> >
> > Didn't these kids witness their mother crashing her car into her
> > sister's car?
> >
> > And then didn't they watch the police arrest their mother for it?
> >
> > Didn't they witness their mother fight with her sister and her
> > boyfriend?
> >
> > Didn't the mother admit she started drinking again?
> >
> > Yeah, things were comin up roses for these kids.
>
> Destroycps!
> Do you mean roses for the funeral? You can argue forever about how bad
> the mom was. But whatever the situation was, it wasn't so bad that the
> kid was being driven to suicide.

Wrong again, One-track-mind.

I've seen adults kill themselves after having parents that failed
their children in exactly this way. Hanging seems to be the method of
choice so often for those with terribly low self esteem.

This mother chose booze, violence, and her boyfriend over her child.
What's left for the kid?

> Article
> > > > "This has not happened before on my watch, but you always live
> with the
> > > > hypothetical possibility that it could," said McLean County
> Circuit
> > > > Judge Ronald Dozier, who presides over abuse and neglect cases.
>
> Destroycps!
> > > > ["Hypothetical"? She means inevitable.]
>
> Dan
> > No it doesn't.
>
> Destroycps!
> It's inevitable that some kids will be so depressed about being
> locked-up away form home that they will commit suicide.

Unlike you, this 12 year old was pretty clear about who was to blame
for his situation. Where would YOU have put him? Back with mother and
boyfriend, so that in a few weeks or months you could dance in his
blood after he got killed by the stupid violent mother or boyfriend,
and blame CPS for NOT taking him out of the home?

> Judge Ronald
> Dozier (I incorrectly thought the quote came form Jill) is trying to
> play down this inevitability by using the diminishing adjective
> "hypothetical" to refer to a situation before the fact. But actually
> it's after the fact right now. The risk is no longer "hypothetical".

If you apply the risk at the right time to the right thing the judge
was correct. You seem to miss the point rather a lot.

So if you think "hypothetical" actually means, in such cases,
"inevitable"
how is it that many more children in foster care don't kill
themselves?

It's rather easy, monday morning quarter backing, to lay blame
wherever one wishes, now isn't it.

All you have to do is ignore the behavior of the mother and boyfriend.
Something like you ignore the Greg case.

>
> Dan
> > If it was inevitable all the kids removed by CPS would kill
> > themselves.
>
> Article
> > > > "You also live with the hypothetical possibility that if you leave
> the
> > > > kids in the home, they could end up dead," the judge said.
>
> Destroycps!
> > > > [BS spin control. They didn't save that kid; they killed him.]
>
> Dan
> > These kids wouldn't have been removed if the mother took the agreement
> > seriously.
>
> Destroycps!
> You're blaming the mom for the kid killing himself because the mom
> couldn't satisfy CPS?

No, because the mother couldn't satisfy the kid and his sense of worth
by giving up the booze, violence, and boyfriend.

It wouldn't have mattered if CPS had never entered the picture. She'd
have, as she showed clearly, gone on until injuring or killing
someone, been lost to the boy for his childhood anyway, or killed him
or his sibs.

Think about what you are advocating.

In other words, what would YOU have done in this case? Left the
children with her, dispite her clear intent NOT to get clean, to stop
her violence?

> Article
> > > > A safety plan was implemented barring him from living at the home
> and
> > > > having contact with the children, court records said.
>
> Dan
> > Another moron boyfriend with Greg Hanson logic, refuse to be evaluated
> > even by yer own psychologist, refuse to participate in parenting
> > classes ... and then the worst possible consequence occurs, the
> > boyfriend gets barred from the house and having contact with the kids
> > OR CPS'll take the kids away!!!
>
> Destroycps!
> Parenting classes and psychologist evaluations do no good for the cause
> of parents in a CPS case.

How is it then that so many are among the approximately 60% of natural
parents that get their children back from CPS? The parents that DO
attend such classes and do have evaluations, and do get off the ****?

> If these services were applied to a boyfriend,
> they would have the same non-beneficial effect.

All she had to do was kick the boyfriend out, and do her own numbers
with CPS. She did it once.

Instead she told the boy, by her actions and inactions, what value HE
had to her. And he responded in kind the only way he knew how. Some
kids just go the same route later in life...become like their
parent...or worse. Some kill themselves. Some even get so tired of the
violence, some of which is perpetrated on them they kill the parent.

> Frequently, CPS will in a roundabout way advocate for the split-up of a
> couple.

No, they tell them flat out most of the time. Often it's because the
boyfriend is an adjudicated sex offender, or criminal, or domestically
violent. Sometimes they give the boy friend one shot at getting his
act together.

The mother gets the call. This mother blew it.

> If a couple then splits up to appease CPS, they will find that
> doing so didn't help their
> cause.

Bull****.

> CPS will simply say that there still is an attachment that will
> redevelop later.

They will say such a thing because it is true. That's how humans work.
They caution the mother NOT to reconnect, as is so often the case, or
risk losing her children. Sounds perfectly logical to me if the
boyfriend is a problem.

I invite you to comment on the Greg Hansen situation.

> CPS will also come up with other faults of the
> parent(s).

Well, I do believe that IS their mandate, if it concerns the safety of
the children. Now isn't it?

> Dan
> > An alcoholic starts boozing again, brawling in public, fighting at
> > home, crashing her car into other people's cars, getting arrested,
> >
> > all in front of her children.
> >
> > What a shame,
>
> Destroycps!
> No. That's not the shame of this story. The story is about a kid killing
> himself because he was hopelessly stuck in foster custody.

and so stuck there by his mother's unwillingness to demonstrate to the
child he was worth giving up her boyfriend, her booze, and her
violence for.

Many such a child has been saved, if caught by CPS soon enough, for a
foster or adoptive parent to reeducate and teach the child they are
worth loving and sacrificing for. Too late in this case...but you
loonies here help with this, often.

He took what appeared to him to be the only way out. Parents that
behave like this forever brand their child as having less worth.
"Worthless" is what causes a lot of suicides.

> Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroy dfs!!!!!!!!!!

Interesting mindset.

What would you replace CPS with, a lot of dead kids?

Kane

[Destroycps!]

Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!!


Woody
> >It doesn't say the services were court ordered.

Kane
> Ah, but it does, as I pointed out to you. It would not be in the court
> record were it not court ordered.

Destroycps!
The "court record" (and it's unclear how the author got access to this)
includes everything submitted. The Safety Plans, which I assume are the
same as the Treatment Plans or Service Plans of other states, are
included in the big submitted CPS report. The orders are something
separate.

Kane
> CPS doesn't "order" plans. They
> submit them to the court to order.

Destroycps!
Very seldom does a CPS court order the parent to do something. It's a
complicated legal issue, and recognizing this, the courts simply avoid
it. For example, the court may order CPS to "provide" a service, but the
court doesn't directly order the parent to attend.

The parent is really not under the jurisdiction (by this I mean control)
of the court. From a legal point of view, this is important.

Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroy dfs!!!!!!!!!!

[[email protected]]

"Destroycps!" > wrote:
> familyfree
> > > > Copyright © 2003, Pantagraph Publishing Co. All rights
> reserved.
> > > > http://tinyurl.com/ku3m
>
> Destroycps!
> > > I'm sure glad we have the © info! I don't know what we
> > > would have done without it!
>
> familyfree
> > Who is "we?"
>
> Destroycps!

Hoy, hoy...Destroycps!!!

> The pronoun refers to everybody who reads what you copied.

Yes, and that "everybody" also includes those anti-family apologists, that
I'm sure by now I've made my opinion of them very clear. That's the way it
is.

> I was being
> sarcastic.

Yes, I understood that. So was I. Tit for tat, in a subtle reference to
the "we." No offense intended.


> You posted the useless copyright info but left practically
> everything else out.

Only useless if no explanation is given with it. Allow me, please. It's
added not only as a filler to the subject body but also for (It isn't
uncommon for someone to open up a post that contains only the link to the
URL alone and not see that link.) clarity. It also (imo) helps to
authenticate the link as being an authentic media article and not a link
to an opinion, personal web-site, or say, a forum. The addition of the
copyright information is a convenient and accurate way of informing you
and others the originating source. It has nothing at all to with Kanes
fictional: respect of copyright or his lame-ass attempt to coin a
fictional usenet abbreviation: "roc" Kane has became infamous for blowing
smoke out of his own ass to the point it has became humorous and
undermines any credibility that he once (if any) may have enjoyed.
Personally, I think he is just another anonymous young 'punk' that has
succeeded in fooling most of the readers here. But, that is another
subject.

>
> Destroycps!
> > > but you should also C&P
> > > the whole article.
>
> familyfree
> > I do, at the CPSWatchlive site.
>
> Destroycps!
> What's wrong with the Google archive? It's more accessible, searchable,
> and reliable.

A lot actually. And I don't think I have to remind you where my loyalties
are, do I? ( : Usenet is accessible to all, even hackers, and with no
back-up. Many of the articles I post are not only for my own archives, but
also for those lurkers that I have personally directed here. Some of them
in the media, others in the political and legal arena and still more, just
families looking for help. It may sound selfish, but if others wish to
take the time to read the articles for their own benefit, or convenience,
then all the better. But, due to new circumstances, I really no longer
have the time to engage in mindless, never-ending flamewars with those
anti-family apologists that would wish to turn an alleged "support" NG
into their very own debate platform, where they gleefully exclaim: "I
win." every time they crap in someone's back yard in obvious disregard for
truth and preservation of family rights and family sanctity. So, I
continue to post in both places. I prefer the other list, as a fee is paid
to use the story, and readers are encouraged to write the reporter's and
the editors from the quoting source (where they read the story) and they
do, whereas, I doubt very much that happens very much here at Usenet. I
have found that posts that I have made (this while doing research for a
reporter that had contacted me.) had been corrupted. In fact after further
searching I found many posts were gone altogether, or corrupted in the
same manner. Here is an example: http://tinyurl.com/l1xr So, evidently,
Google may not be as reliable as we wish. But, I know without a doubt I
can go to the other news list and the post is securely archived in it's
entirety. If not then I can fall back on my own files, but that doesn't
help those "lurkers" I mentioned, and also takes up a lot of space.
Lengthy explanation, I hope it some way you will see where I'm coming
from. Everything changes.

>
> And as I argued before, some office people can see newsgroups but not
> the web. Their browsers are disabled but their email clients work.

Is it okay to joke here? I hope they aren't in the office 24/7 or they
will miss all the pictures at the URL's and the captions and links to the
related stories that you just can't get in this NG. And, if there was a
problem with anyone accessing (which there hasn't been yet) they could
always email me at the address provided or contact information under the
posted URL. That is why I put that specific contact information there, and
I would be glad to provide the information to all legitimate requests.

>
> familyfree
> > You have your style, I have mine.
>
> Destroycps!
> That's not an argument.

It wasn't meant to be.

> It's not a matter of artistic style.

OK, so I may have phrased it wrong. Presentation has little to do with it.
(Thanks though, I do try to make the posts tidy, guess it's those OJT years
in the type shops as an apprentice graphic artist, years ago. Except the
trusty, rusty X-acto knife now electronically replaced.) Though...I really
should have said: "format." You have your format, and this is mine when it
comes to archiving "News" stories. "Art" here is relative only to a part of
the elephant overall.

> Posting an
> article in text gives the article exposure.

Yes, you are right. And as I have told others, I would now count on those
diligent activists, if any, to root out the pertinent parts and wave them
as a banner. I've also told the same people that my time at Usenet is
limited and expiring fast.(Lifebeyond Usenet.) ( There has been so many
times that I've asked for some kind of unity among the pro-family posters,
there doesn't seem to be any. I think dan, ron and kane actually display
more. (IMO) So this is the format, if any at all.My apologies.

> If you don't want exposure,
> then why post it in the first place?

I think I explained my somewhat selfish motives above. And you are
speaking about exposure of the article.

>
> familyfree
> > And reasons.
>
> Destroycps!
> You're welcome to state them.

I wish that I could, but "confidentiality" and strategy from legal
advisors, prevent me from stating all reasons. However you can be assured
that when I started out posting in this method, it was to save time, until
recently, when I received a call from a reporter friend of mine. She
informed me that her Editors had received an anonymous call from someone
that: "had information on someone posting one of her stories on the
internet" (hmmm, wonder who that could be, huh?) According to the
reporter, they gave all the information they knew about me, and wanted to
know if it was copyright infringement. Evidently the Editor really didn't
give a d***, and when he asked the caller's name...the caller hung up. If
they call someone in my area, then it stands to reason they have called
others. I don't worry about me, but I do have an obligation, and
responsibility to others. Funny, thing is, I don't see family rights
people, or those that are looking for help, pulling underhanded dirty
tricks such as this. They are in it to help, or get their kids back.
That's all.

>
> familyfree
> > Thanks for taking your time, reposting for other's and your
> > appreciated input.
>
> Destroycps!
> Thank you for the politeness, but that doesn't mean we still can't
> disagree on technique.

Thank-you. I think we've always been friends. As for "technique" sometimes
still water runs deep. I probably, unfortunately, agree with you. Things
have changed.

> It would be newsgroup-phony if I were to ignore
> your posting deficiencies because I agree with your general position on
> CPS.

If there is one outstanding quality that I could name, among your many,
Destroycps, it is your sincerity and objective honest viewpoint. I regret
you seeing this as a deficiency.

As always,

--
free

[[email protected]]

"Destroycps!" > wrote:
> Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Destroycps!
> > > > [Same ol' junk CPS lays on everybody]
>
> Dan
> > Oh yeah?
> >
> > What did the kids say about what was going on re violence?
> >
> > Didn't these kids witness their mother crashing her car into her
> > sister's car?
> >
> > And then didn't they watch the police arrest their mother for it?
> >
> > Didn't they witness their mother fight with her sister and her
> > boyfriend?
> >
> > Didn't the mother admit she started drinking again?
> >
> > Yeah, things were comin up roses for these kids.
>
> Destroycps!
> Do you mean roses for the funeral? You can argue forever about how bad
> the mom was. But whatever the situation was, it wasn't so bad that the
> kid was being driven to suicide.

Here's what I have been told about this. Its very possible the boy didn't
mean to commit suicide, he wanted to go home. He may have been thinking
they would have cut him down in time. It is a sad tragedy. My heart goes
out to this family. There was no intentional rear ending of a car. The
argument followed an accident. (one of those backing out while other
person was backing in) There was no domestic violence between boyfriend and
Mom, only an argument with and accidental cutting with a telephone. There
is no law against arguing. It is not abuse as defined by law. There is no
law against drinking. It is not abuse as defined by law. Many times, and
I've spoke with many families that this has happened to, they are coerced
to submit to services concerning a non-existing drinking problem (maybe a
prior DUI or slanted evaluation by a cps vendor, or just plain duress)
under the threat of never seeing their children again. (The child dangled
in front of the parents nose as a carrot in front of a horse.) Once they
submit to these services they have stipulated. They are official child
abusers and there is no reason to the court to order services because the
family has already plead guilty. Yes, of course it will be in the court
records. And,there is no chance for appeal. It's a done deal.
This is what dan is promoting---submit to their reasonable services. Will
you ask yourself...what does he stand to gain? Open your eyes people.
<snip>
>
> Destroycps!
> No. That's not the shame of this story. The story is about a kid killing
> himself because he was hopelessly stuck in foster custody.

Everyone that I have talked to that is close to this story says the same
thing. If the boy would have been placed with his grandmother like the
other child has been, he would still be alive now.

--
Dennis

[Destroycps!]

Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!!

Familyfree
> . you can be assured
> that when I started out posting in this method,

Destroycps!
There's a residential center in Kansas City that I've mentioned before.
Every worker there has net connection that can send & receive email and
get newsgroups, but they can't get the web. Even though these people
work for a CPS contractor, some of them are very anti-CPS, at least in
the closet. They know about newsgroups, and a few of them at least
occasionally look at this one. A link for them is useless.

If you're worried about the law (even though you shouldn't be), there
are several ways to post anonymously.

Mail2news
http://www.google.com/search?&q=Mail2news

Anonymizer
http://www.google.com/search?&q=anonymizer

Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroycps!!!!!!!!!! Destroy dfs!!!!!!!!!!