Re: Molestation: Fondling Geoghan sent to jail for

[Kane]

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:23:01 GMT, "bobb" > wrote:

>
>"Zippety Dodah" > wrote in message
...
>> This is to Bobb,
>> So you think touching is not that bad. Well you may be right, but I
do
>> not think so. Frankly any child who is inappropriately touched by
an
>> adult is affected for the rest of his or her life. Bobb, I have
read a
>> lot of your threads and if I knew who you were I would definitely
keep
>> any child of mine away from you. You think that if a child is
sexually
>> molested that it is ok??? Do you know what it does to a child who
is
>> being molested by a trusted adult? It takes away all feelings of
trust,
>> it creates self loathing, it creates feelings of suicide, it
creates a
>> lifetime of the child wondering how he or she could have stopped
it.
>> Molestation of any child by any adult is wrong, period. The adult
who is
>> doing the molestation first started out by getting the child to
trust
>> him. Many times the child has noone to trust, often feels like
noone
>> loves him or her and then someone comes along who grooms him or her
for
>> the specific purpose of getting his jollies off. The adult then
starts
>> touching the child and then bribes the child with gifts or
threatens the
>> child with various things (such as the child or his family will be
>> killed if the child ever tells). I truly hope you are not this type
of
>> person.
>>
>
>Hey, Zippy. I never said it was wrong but the penality needs to fit
the
>crime. Let's put is in some kinda perspective as well. If the kid
grows up
>feeling kinda guilty for participating in something he now feels
>uncomfortable with...so be it.

It's not limited to just guilt. Adults that were molested as children
report severe repercussion. They thought they had repressed it,
minimized it. Even tried to deny it, but it comes back to haunt them
and to disrupt their current intimate relationships.

In fact many have such low regard for themselves they live very
dangerously. A high number of street kids left home because they were
molested, often by a family member.

These kids turn to prostitution as a matter of course...they believe
their value lies in what others wish to use them for. It was taught to
them.

>Mygosh, we've all done things, or said things, we kinda wish we
didn't and
>feel the same kinda guitlt.

No we "all" haven't. Have you seen Greegor the Whore mention guilt or
wishing he had done things differently? I haven't.

He's not gonna either, and Dennis defends him as a nice warm loving
parent...forgetting that he tried to train a child like a dog.

Dennis claims to be and advocat for and raised his child by attachment
parenting methods. Nothing in attachment parenting supports punishment
for wetting one's self, nor treating a child like a dog.

> Most of your post contains the same unsupported
>claims (or rationalizations) that a boy cannot make a decision
regarding
>sexual activities.

No one claims that, duffus. What they claim is that the adult, the
person in a more powerful position has the responsibility for acting
out. The child, even if they solicit the adult, is NOT the one to
blame. All kinds of reason they could be doing that, but the adult is
supposed to know better and to control him or herself.

> A girl, of the same age, becomes pregnant but no one
>ever suggests she will become self-loathing or ask if she could of
stopped
>it.

They don't? You have just done something similar. Didn't you notice?

And of course they do. In fact they know the probablity of her having
emotional and developmental problems is very great and they say so.
People with training, who can think, know it's also true for the boy
as well.

>Is not she molested as well? And, I would say, with far greater
>consequences than that of a boy who was merely "touched'.

Really? How, other than pregnancy?

>The imbalance is
>caused by the thought of homosexuality.

Not among professionals and people that can think. That lets out a
whole slew of you ditzes here.

>Hetrosexual 'molestations' are
>viewed very much differently.

Oh, are they now.

>The lastest cases involving school teachers
>demonstrate that quite adequately.

Which ones? The heterosexual males going to jail all the time for
touching females? Mary Kay LaTourneau sitting in a cell in WA state
for all those years for having two or three kids with her underage
lover? that the different view you wish to claim?

>As result, those like Geoghan really get the book thrown at them...

How many kids is he estimated to have molested?

He didn't just pat them on the butt in a coachlike manner, boobby.

>while
>another who committs manslaugher virtually walks away.

There are terrible inequities in the world. I don't think a lot of
murderers get off. In fact far more child molesters to for reasons
that you make very clear. Denial, minimization, ignorance, and a plain
old criminal fascist mindset.

>The harm done to a
>victim is not in line with the punishments.

In other words, you've done it again. The harm should be only part of
the issue...and to know the harm you have to know something about what
such actions cause. You don't know and are in deep denial of the
little that is told you.

>In fact, when one considers
>pregnant or molested females as an enjoined class, they receive no
justice.

Oh please.

Okay, <wearily> <sigh> give us some citations please. What exactly do
you mean by the way.

Could you be more obtuse?

>
>bobb
>

Kane

[bobb]

"Kane" > wrote in message
om...
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 00:23:01 GMT, "bobb" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"Zippety Dodah" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> This is to Bobb,
> >> So you think touching is not that bad. Well you may be right, but I
> do
> >> not think so. Frankly any child who is inappropriately touched by
> an
> >> adult is affected for the rest of his or her life. Bobb, I have
> read a
> >> lot of your threads and if I knew who you were I would definitely
> keep
> >> any child of mine away from you. You think that if a child is
> sexually
> >> molested that it is ok??? Do you know what it does to a child who
> is
> >> being molested by a trusted adult? It takes away all feelings of
> trust,
> >> it creates self loathing, it creates feelings of suicide, it
> creates a
> >> lifetime of the child wondering how he or she could have stopped
> it.
> >> Molestation of any child by any adult is wrong, period. The adult
> who is
> >> doing the molestation first started out by getting the child to
> trust
> >> him. Many times the child has noone to trust, often feels like
> noone
> >> loves him or her and then someone comes along who grooms him or her
> for
> >> the specific purpose of getting his jollies off. The adult then
> starts
> >> touching the child and then bribes the child with gifts or
> threatens the
> >> child with various things (such as the child or his family will be
> >> killed if the child ever tells). I truly hope you are not this type
> of
> >> person.
> >>
> >
> >Hey, Zippy. I never said it was wrong but the penality needs to fit
> the
> >crime. Let's put is in some kinda perspective as well. If the kid
> grows up
> >feeling kinda guilty for participating in something he now feels
> >uncomfortable with...so be it.
>
> It's not limited to just guilt. Adults that were molested as children
> report severe repercussion. They thought they had repressed it,
> minimized it. Even tried to deny it, but it comes back to haunt them
> and to disrupt their current intimate relationships.
>
> In fact many have such low regard for themselves they live very
> dangerously. A high number of street kids left home because they were
> molested, often by a family member.
>
> These kids turn to prostitution as a matter of course...they believe
> their value lies in what others wish to use them for. It was taught to
> them.
>
> >Mygosh, we've all done things, or said things, we kinda wish we
> didn't and
> >feel the same kinda guitlt.
>
> No we "all" haven't. Have you seen Greegor the Whore mention guilt or
> wishing he had done things differently? I haven't.

Well, then. For those who don't wish they had done things differently there
isn't any guilt or self-loathing.

>
> He's not gonna either, and Dennis defends him as a nice warm loving
> parent...forgetting that he tried to train a child like a dog.
>
> Dennis claims to be and advocat for and raised his child by attachment
> parenting methods. Nothing in attachment parenting supports punishment
> for wetting one's self, nor treating a child like a dog.
>
> > Most of your post contains the same unsupported
> >claims (or rationalizations) that a boy cannot make a decision
> regarding
> >sexual activities.
>
> No one claims that, duffus. What they claim is that the adult, the
> person in a more powerful position has the responsibility for acting
> out. The child, even if they solicit the adult, is NOT the one to
> blame. All kinds of reason they could be doing that, but the adult is
> supposed to know better and to control him or herself.

I suppose if an adult really had power and control over a kid.. or even a
teacher... we wouldn't be hearing of so many behavior problems. Kids would
do what was expected of them without arguement or resistance.

Undoubtly there There were a number of priests who approached a boy but was
refused. They accepted personal responsiblity for their conduct and rejected
a priest advances.

The common assumption is that the priests were all so powerful they could
command any boy to do anything.


>
> > A girl, of the same age, becomes pregnant but no one
> >ever suggests she will become self-loathing or ask if she could of
> stopped
> >it.
>
> They don't? You have just done something similar. Didn't you notice?
>
> And of course they do. In fact they know the probablity of her having
> emotional and developmental problems is very great and they say so.
> People with training, who can think, know it's also true for the boy
> as well.
>
> >Is not she molested as well? And, I would say, with far greater
> >consequences than that of a boy who was merely "touched'.
>
> Really? How, other than pregnancy?

Isn't pregnancy enough? A boy being 'touched' hardly reaches the level of
penetration or pregnancy.
>
> >The imbalance is
> >caused by the thought of homosexuality.
>
> Not among professionals and people that can think. That lets out a
> whole slew of you ditzes here.

Maybe professionals see things a bit differently but it's public opinon that
really counts.

>
> >Hetrosexual 'molestations' are
> >viewed very much differently.
>
> Oh, are they now.
>
> >The lastest cases involving school teachers
> >demonstrate that quite adequately.
>
> Which ones? The heterosexual males going to jail all the time for
> touching females? Mary Kay LaTourneau sitting in a cell in WA state
> for all those years for having two or three kids with her underage
> lover? that the different view you wish to claim?
>
> >As result, those like Geoghan really get the book thrown at them...
>
> How many kids is he estimated to have molested?
>
> He didn't just pat them on the butt in a coachlike manner, boobby.
>
> >while
> >another who committs manslaugher virtually walks away.
>
> There are terrible inequities in the world. I don't think a lot of
> murderers get off. In fact far more child molesters to for reasons
> that you make very clear. Denial, minimization, ignorance, and a plain
> old criminal fascist mindset.
>
> >The harm done to a
> >victim is not in line with the punishments.
>
> In other words, you've done it again. The harm should be only part of
> the issue...and to know the harm you have to know something about what
> such actions cause. You don't know and are in deep denial of the
> little that is told you.

Oh come on now. Woman are gropped, grabbed, and patted all the time. Yes,
there are a few who complain loudly and legally but the are far more who
accept it as a fact of life.

>
> >In fact, when one considers
> >pregnant or molested females as an enjoined class, they receive no
> justice.
>
> Oh please.
>
> Okay, <wearily> <sigh> give us some citations please. What exactly do
> you mean by the way.
>
> Could you be more obtuse?
>
> >
> >bobb
> >
>
> Kane

[Dan Sullivan]

"bobb" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> Oh come on now. Woman are gropped, grabbed, and patted all the time.
Yes,
> there are a few who complain loudly and legally but the are far more who
> accept it as a fact of life.

WOW!!!

That's not what I'm teaching my kids.

Where do you live, Bobb?

Best, Dan

[Dan Sullivan]

"toto" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:53:47 GMT, "bobb" > wrote:
>
> >> >The harm done to a
> >> >victim is not in line with the punishments.
> >>
> >> In other words, you've done it again. The harm should be only part of
> >> the issue...and to know the harm you have to know something about
> >> what such actions cause. You don't know and are in deep denial of
> >> the little that is told you.
> >
> >Oh come on now. Woman are gropped, grabbed, and patted all the
> >time. Yes, there are a few who complain loudly and legally but the are
> >far more who accept it as a fact of life.
>
> Why should women accept this as a fact of life, bobb?
>
> I don't run in circles where this is the norm, thank heavens, but if
> men did start groping me, they would get a swift kick where it
> hurts. Unfortunately most women are still brought up to accept
> that men have power over their bodies and that we have to accept
> that.

I don't or actually HOPE that's not true.

> We don't.

Pass it on...

Best, Dan

[bobb]

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "bobb" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> > Oh come on now. Woman are gropped, grabbed, and patted all the time.
> Yes,
> > there are a few who complain loudly and legally but the are far more who
> > accept it as a fact of life.
>
> WOW!!!
>
> That's not what I'm teaching my kids.
>
> Where do you live, Bobb?
>
> Best, Dan
>
>

Aw, Dan, I'm not teaching anyone anything. Look, I beleive you have you're
head screwed on right so I know, you know, there are women who get touched
but... 1) they learned how to handle the situation, 2) they learn to
perceive the context in which it is done, and 3) it certainly doesn't ruin a
women's life.

I've had people rub my back or arm... which can certainly be suggestive, and
often is. I've had women go so far as to pat my butt... some in jest...
some with far serious implications. In some case it was truely annoying and
in front of others, can be embarassing. However, in the course of life and
living, we learn how to deal with those people instead of looking to the
courts for 'victim's rights' and some kinda valuation. We are catering to a
few women, Dan. Certainly not the majority.

bobb

[bobb]

"toto" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:53:47 GMT, "bobb" > wrote:
>
> >> >The harm done to a
> >> >victim is not in line with the punishments.
> >>
> >> In other words, you've done it again. The harm should be only part of
> >> the issue...and to know the harm you have to know something about
> >> what such actions cause. You don't know and are in deep denial of
> >> the little that is told you.
> >
> >Oh come on now. Woman are gropped, grabbed, and patted all the
> >time. Yes, there are a few who complain loudly and legally but the are
> >far more who accept it as a fact of life.
>
> Why should women accept this as a fact of life, bobb?
>
> I don't run in circles where this is the norm, thank heavens, but if
> men did start groping me, they would get a swift kick where it
> hurts. Unfortunately most women are still brought up to accept
> that men have power over their bodies and that we have to accept
> that. We don't.
>
>

I can't say that you've ever been touched or bothered in an inappropriate
manner... but as you note.. you are well suited to handle the situation. I
would also beleive before you resorted to the 'swift kick' you would have
used the appropriate words first. Perhaps not.. but either way, you win.

It is not a matter of power. Such behaviors are misguided attention getters
by men who do not know better yet we all know there are many women who like
that kind of attention.

I also note that you chose your circle of friends more appropriately as
well. The are many women who do not... and sorta put themselves in
positions that attract....hmmm.. attention.


Lastly, I doubt anyone would find you entering a man's hotel room, at any
time of day, alone.

It is a matter of common sense...

bobb

>
>
> --
> Dorothy
>
> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..
> Outer Limits

[bobb]

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "toto" > wrote in message
> ...
> > On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:53:47 GMT, "bobb" > wrote:
> >
> > >> >The harm done to a
> > >> >victim is not in line with the punishments.
> > >>
> > >> In other words, you've done it again. The harm should be only part of
> > >> the issue...and to know the harm you have to know something about
> > >> what such actions cause. You don't know and are in deep denial of
> > >> the little that is told you.
> > >
> > >Oh come on now. Woman are gropped, grabbed, and patted all the
> > >time. Yes, there are a few who complain loudly and legally but the are
> > >far more who accept it as a fact of life.
> >
> > Why should women accept this as a fact of life, bobb?
> >
> > I don't run in circles where this is the norm, thank heavens, but if
> > men did start groping me, they would get a swift kick where it
> > hurts. Unfortunately most women are still brought up to accept
> > that men have power over their bodies and that we have to accept
> > that.
>
> I don't or actually HOPE that's not true.
>
> > We don't.
>
> Pass it on...
>
> Best, Dan
>
>
Actually, there were many times I wish I had the power and control as a man
that we, of the male species, are accused of having. :-)

bobb

[Dan Sullivan]

"bobb" > wrote in message
link.net...
>
> "Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
> et...
> >
> > "bobb" > wrote in message
> > link.net...
> > >
> > > Oh come on now. Woman are gropped, grabbed, and patted all the time.
> > Yes,
> > > there are a few who complain loudly and legally but the are far more
who
> > > accept it as a fact of life.
> >
> > WOW!!!
> >
> > That's not what I'm teaching my kids.
> >
> > Where do you live, Bobb?
> >
> > Best, Dan
> >
> >
>
> Aw, Dan, I'm not teaching anyone anything. Look, I beleive you have
you're
> head screwed on right so I know, you know, there are women who get touched
> but...
> 1) they learned how to handle the situation,

I hope they've learned to ask/demand that the touching stops if it makes
them uncomfortable.

> 2) they learn to perceive the context in which it is done, and

Sure.

> 3) it certainly doesn't ruin a women's life.

But it isn't something they HAVE to tolerate.

> I've had people rub my back or arm... which can certainly be suggestive,
and
> often is. I've had women go so far as to pat my butt... some in jest...
> some with far serious implications. In some case it was truely annoying
and
> in front of others, can be embarassing. However, in the course of life
and
> living, we learn how to deal with those people instead of looking to the
> courts for 'victim's rights' and some kinda valuation. We are catering to
a
> few women, Dan. Certainly not the majority.

True.

Every situation should be handled on a case by case basis.

I will tell you that my kids have been taught by me that someone touching
them is never to be taken lightly.

And the same goes for them touching someone else.

Best, Dan

[bobb]

"Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "bobb" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> >
> > "Dan Sullivan" > wrote in message
> > et...
> > >
> > > "bobb" > wrote in message
> > > link.net...
> > > >
> > > > Oh come on now. Woman are gropped, grabbed, and patted all the
time.
> > > Yes,
> > > > there are a few who complain loudly and legally but the are far more
> who
> > > > accept it as a fact of life.
> > >
> > > WOW!!!
> > >
> > > That's not what I'm teaching my kids.
> > >
> > > Where do you live, Bobb?
> > >
> > > Best, Dan
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Aw, Dan, I'm not teaching anyone anything. Look, I beleive you have
> you're
> > head screwed on right so I know, you know, there are women who get
touched
> > but...
> > 1) they learned how to handle the situation,
>
> I hope they've learned to ask/demand that the touching stops if it makes
> them uncomfortable.
>
> > 2) they learn to perceive the context in which it is done, and
>
> Sure.
>
> > 3) it certainly doesn't ruin a women's life.
>
> But it isn't something they HAVE to tolerate.

Hmm... this is and example of statements that wrong society. We all need
to tolerate, or put up with, bad behaviors of others - and we need to learn
to deal with a variety of people in different situations. Somehow we've
forgotten that all people do not raise their kids as you, or some kids
will forget what they were taught and will commit indescretions both as
kids and adults. I think they're needs to be a sense of tolerance, as
opposed to the zero tolerance attitude which seems to be popular these days.
We no longer teach personal and individual responsiblity. We are losing
coping skills and instead turn to the courts and others to create remedies.

Look at the Kobe incident. The lessons of early life were violated and will
suffer the consequences forever after. Will society really benefit from
charging him as an offender of some type and sending him to jail?

If he had went to her room the picture would be dramically different. Why
shouldn't we take the same position when a girl goes to the boy's room. We
are all taken to task sometime or another for poor judgement but when it
somes to sex... we tend to excuse poor judgement and blame the others. There
are those who set themselves up for failure... and then seek resitution from
the government ... and the government readily complies.

The Kobe incident as probably far from merely touching but if both had
learned and obeyed what they were taught neither would find themselves
involved today.

bobb












>
> > I've had people rub my back or arm... which can certainly be suggestive,
> and
> > often is. I've had women go so far as to pat my butt... some in jest...
> > some with far serious implications. In some case it was truely annoying
> and
> > in front of others, can be embarassing. However, in the course of life
> and
> > living, we learn how to deal with those people instead of looking to
the
> > courts for 'victim's rights' and some kinda valuation. We are catering
to
> a
> > few women, Dan. Certainly not the majority.
>
> True.
>
> Every situation should be handled on a case by case basis.
>
> I will tell you that my kids have been taught by me that someone touching
> them is never to be taken lightly.
>
> And the same goes for them touching someone else.
>
> Best, Dan
>
>

[Greg Hanson]

toto said:
> Why should women accept this as a fact of life, bobb?
>
> I don't run in circles where this is the norm,
> thank heavens, but if men did start groping me,
> they would get a swift kick where it hurts.

> Unfortunately most women are still brought up
> to accept that men have power over their bodies
> and that we have to accept that. We don't.

Ah yes, the meek submissive women.
I've NEVER met one yet.

Yet you say women are still brought up that way.
Odd then how many women are involved in various
flavors of MIlitant Feminism? Always asserting
the weak sister argument..
I'll bet that SICKENS Gloria Steinem.
She fought for years about women being equally
capable, even physically (though different).
The weak sister argument is very heart rending.

Much like Internet Hoax chain letters circulating
on the internet about a kid with cancer and how
continuing the chain will bring 32c for the cause.

SO HEART rending, but completely false.

The Munchausen By Proxy tactic used by CPS is a
similarly palusible FALSEHOOD.

Spiral Fractures mean Child Abuse?? Falsehood.
Ask Dan and Kane! They know it's false.

Right after 9/11 Dan staunchly defended Red Cross
blood activities. This was BEFORE the Red Cross
misdeeds BLEW UP. Courts and US Congress even had
to raise hell about it. This newsgroup even got
a pretty good lesson on the business of blood.
One state which was not part of Red Cross had a
blood bank CEO who was immensely wealthy.
Company Mercedez or Benz or such exorbitant car.

Often those things "everybody knows" like the
superb reputation of Red Cross are bogus.
There was a prevailing mythology that Red Cross
whole blood operations are charitable when they are
actually a quite profitable BUSINESS within
a ""no profit"". If you asked people they thought
blood was freely given by Red Cross ""to those in need".
Look at a surgical hospital bill and you'll see it's not.


You yourself described the groin attack. That
is a pretty common response. Of course, talking
about it and doing it are two different things.
I knew two people who took a campus self defense
class, and I proved that they were OVERLY confident
and punctured their illusion about actually using
it. One went on to take serious education in Karate.
She now has legitimate confidence rather than a dangerous myth.

I am, however, worried about girls among the gang and
quasi gang mentality in public school teenagers.
While the girls are the opposite of meek or submissive,
they feel group pressure to submit to things as
part of continuing to be ""accepted"" by the group.

Smoking is through the roof among teen girls, even
though overall in society it's way down.
The commit terrible violent crimes and have in
many instances masterminded group crime attacks.

This is not being taught them by parents.

Women taught to be submissive? Certainly not en masse!

[Greg Hanson]

GH Ah yes, the meek submissive women.
GH I've NEVER met one yet.

DS Greg, you LIVE with one.

GH Clearly you DO NOT know her. :)


DS And you tried to turn her 6 yo daughter into one too.

GH Yeah, teaching a girl how to safely change her own tire
GH and how to add her own engine oil is bound to make her
GH a dependant woman who needs a man for such things.
GH And that advanced reading level sure encourages dependance!

GH Is getting her age WRONG after I've corrected you so
GH many times on it some kind of test?



GH The Munchausen By Proxy tactic used by CPS is a
GH similarly [plausible] FALSEHOOD.

DS That's not to say some woman don't kill or harm their children.

GH Where did I say that none do?
GH That doesn't justify the use of a MYTH, a KNOWN FALSEHOOD,
GH just like the one YOU DISCOVERED to remove lots of kids!
GH A thread of truth does not justify the steamroller behavior.
GH But YOU have yourself discovered that caseworkers DO
GH use MYTH, bogus science, to tear up families.

GH Spiral Fractures mean Child Abuse?? Falsehood.
GH Ask Dan and Kane! They know it's false.

DS Not all spiral fractures, dipstick!

GH from what YOU found, MOST spiral fractures are not.
GH However, caseworkers and even many doctors have wrongly
GH believed that spiral factures are automatically child abuse.

GH Therefore it is a FALSEHOOD to equate
GH Spiral Fractures with Child Abuse.
GH That's what I said above, based on your own discovery.

DS Dipstick!

GH Right after 9/11 Dan staunchly defended Red Cross
GH blood activities. This was BEFORE the Red Cross
GH misdeeds BLEW UP. Courts and US Congress even had
GH to raise hell about it.

DS Good things aren't always good, Greg.
DS As bad things aren't always bad.

GH You're preaching to the choir.
GH And after you have vilified me for a considerable length of time.

GH Contrary to Kane I have actually said there are things I
GH could have done better. But I will not go all mumblety peg
GH and become COWED doing mea culpas for piddly stuff when the
GH things the state has done should qualify as RACKETEERING.



GH This newsgroup even got
GH a pretty good lesson on the business of blood.
GH One state which was not part of Red Cross had a
GH blood bank CEO who was immensely wealthy.
GH Company Mercedez or Benz or such exorbitant car.

GH Often those things "everybody knows" like the
GH superb reputation of Red Cross are bogus.
GH There was a prevailing mythology that Red Cross
GH whole blood operations are charitable when they are
GH actually a quite profitable BUSINESS within
GH a ""no profit"". If you asked people they thought
GH blood was freely given by Red Cross ""to those in need".
GH Look at a surgical hospital bill and you'll see it's not.

DS The Red Cross has no overhead, Greg?

GH Where did I say they don't? My point was the false
GH prevailing public perception, and you fell for it.
GH (And you ridiculed myself and others who exposed the myth.)
GH You were a loyal "believer" with your eyes closed.
GH After a few in here squawked about it, it BROKE OUT
GH in the news media, festered and even CONGRESS got angry!

GH Overhead was not the issue here. Myth, blind loyalty and
GH false public perception are the issue. That was the
GH reason I brought it up THEN, and why I bring it up now,
GH after your epiphany about the bone breakage MYTH!

GH People STILL believe incorrectly that Red Cross DONATES blood.
GH It's a MYTH.

GH Dan, I don't blame you for believing it, as I did too!
GH But when I posted that an aquaintance was giving away
GH soft drinks and sandwiches for Salvation Army in NYC,
GH while Red Cross was CHARGING $5 for about the same thing,
GH you let the MYTH blind you for too long.
GH I like to use a term from the cold war days for this.
GH "Trust but Verify."

GH You noticed that I was willing to tell Neal he
GH was wrong when he was. As strong willed and blustery
GH as you two were, I tried to get you two to stop
GH bickering and do some good for parents falsely maligned
GH by CPS. You just could not. Like rabid dogs you both
GH just kept at it to the point that you made this forum
GH almost useless to any constructive ends.
GH I asked you two to agree to disagree.

GH But it really seems like you seem to let that Irish fighting
GH spirit in you get wasted on infighting rather than really
GH solving problems, EXCEPT where you can use the case as a BRAG!

GH Dennis does not need to BRAG!
GH Nor do I!
GH Nobody gives a crap about your ego, or mine. Get over it.

GH Your bashing at me and mine displays qualities that
GH NOBODY wants in an advocate. Sure, tenacity can be good,
GH but sitting in judgement of people like you do and bashing
GH them is not the sort of character advocates need.
GH That kind of behavior is NOT tolerated in CPSWATCH.

GH I did that once when a broadcaster who had propagandized
GH for CPS was now asking for help to fight them.
GH (They did not like that she was a career woman!)
GH Unlike you, though, I would have quickly dropped the
GH complaint and begun helping her. I was cynical
GH because there has been a spate of moles and boll weevil
GH type of problems within the advocate community.

GH There are even some well known parent advocates who
GH want to be "king of the hill" or claim they patented
GH the word advocate.

GH One woman found it was not religious enough for her.
GH It's multi-denominational, small prayers tolerated.
GH Bickering about religion is not, for long.
GH A short prayer, from whatever belief, is OK once in awhile.
GH We all need to get along and not be preachy or judgemental.

GH Your judgementalism worries me, if you're an advocate
GH for parents, Dan. You seem to be unable to get along
GH enough to make it work. Too busy defending your ego,
GH or championing the one, the TRUE faith! (Red Cross!)

GH You keep telegraphing too many of the signs that I
GH really DETEST in some of the parent advocates out there.
GH The heavy Judgementalism and the long term taunting,
GH repeated ad nauseum like a water torture are downright
GH unethical for a parent advocate.

GH Apparently you KNOW that, as you complained when I barked
GH about the pro-CPS On Air person who came under CPS attack.

GH Rightly so, but you do that MORE than I, and can't let go.
GH I would have gotten over it and helped her anyway.
GH You seem heavily ego driven. It's not about you.

GH You are seeing me in here, under siege, which you should
GH know since you are anonymous, and have layed siege upon me.
GH Worse yet, you try to put me (us) on trial here knowing
GH that is just not possible.
GH I am fighting with hands tied behind my back on here.
GH This channel is being WATCHED and you know it.
GH At what point does your ego pumping take a back seat to
GH your advocacy?

GH As a parent advocate it looks like you would only skim
GH the cream, the really proveable innocent people and
GH reject all borderline or difficult cases, right?
GH Or in difficult cases will you just be MEAN to them?
GH Where are your ethics on the tough cases?
GH Gonna just throw them away and swear at them?

[Dan Sullivan]

"Greg Hanson" > wrote in message
om...
>
> GH Ah yes, the meek submissive women.
> GH I've NEVER met one yet.
>
> DS Greg, you LIVE with one.
>
> GH Clearly you DO NOT know her. :)

I know you've been lounging around her abode 24/7 for years without her
doing anything about it.

What do ya do all day, Greg?

When was the last time you had a regular job?

> DS And you tried to turn her 6 yo daughter into one too.
>
> GH Yeah, teaching a girl how to safely change her own tire
> GH and how to add her own engine oil is bound to make her
> GH a dependant woman who needs a man for such things.
> GH And that advanced reading level sure encourages dependance!

I don't know what your motives were for any of that or even if any of it's
true.

And what does a little girl own that has an engine for her to "add her own
engine oil?"

BTW was that a bicycle tire?

Or did ya have her workin on a lawnmower?

> GH Is getting her age WRONG after I've corrected you so
> GH many times on it some kind of test?

I know she was removed at seven years of age.

You didn't do any of your "encouraging (in)dependance " when she was six?

<<<snip>>>

> DS Good things aren't always good, Greg.
> DS As bad things aren't always bad.
>
> GH You're preaching to the choir.
> GH And after you have vilified me for a considerable length of time.

Just because you won't admit that what you did to the little girl was wrong
doesn't make it acceptable or right.

> GH Contrary to Kane I have actually said there are things I
> GH could have done better. But I will not go all mumblety peg
> GH and become COWED doing mea culpas for piddly stuff when the
> GH things the state has done should qualify as RACKETEERING.

So you choose to do nothing.

<<<snip>>>

> GH You noticed that I was willing to tell Neal he
> GH was wrong when he was. As strong willed and blustery
> GH as you two were, I tried to get you two to stop
> GH bickering and do some good for parents falsely maligned
> GH by CPS. You just could not.

Don't ya remember Jennifer getting her kids back?

Chuck?

David and Amy Carl?

> GH Like rabid dogs you both
> GH just kept at it to the point that you made this forum
> GH almost useless to any constructive ends.

My side of the debate was constructive.

It demonstrated that whatsisname's advice was ineffective and dangerous.

> GH I asked you two to agree to disagree.
>
> GH But it really seems like you seem to let that Irish fighting
> GH spirit in you get wasted on infighting rather than really
> GH solving problems, EXCEPT where you can use the case as a BRAG!
>
> GH Dennis does not need to BRAG!

He's got nothing to brag about.

> GH Nor do I!

You're right about that.

> GH Nobody gives a crap about your ego, or mine. Get over it.

Then the few people who claim that I haven't helped anyone prevail over CPS
should stop BSn.

I only mention what I do and have done in reaction to their unfounded
claims.

> GH Your bashing at me and mine displays qualities that
> GH NOBODY wants in an advocate. Sure, tenacity can be good,
> GH but sitting in judgement of people like you do and bashing
> GH them is not the sort of character advocates need.

If I determine, based on what people tell me, that they ARE maltreating
children I AM gonna say so.

You did ask for comments when you posted the infamous MOTION, didn't you?

And when you make posts about other things you do expect comments, don't
you, Greg?

<<<snip>>>

> GH Your judgementalism worries me, if you're an advocate
> GH for parents, Dan. You seem to be unable to get along
> GH enough to make it work.

I haven't made anything "work" since I've come to this NG, Greg?

> GH Too busy defending your ego,
> GH or championing the one, the TRUE faith! (Red Cross!)

And as I've said all along, show me a more successful strategy and I'll
advocate for that.

And I posted my opinion about the Red Cross back in 2001... after 9-11.

<<<snip>>>

> GH As a parent advocate it looks like you would only skim
> GH the cream, the really proveable innocent people and
> GH reject all borderline or difficult cases, right?

I've always taken on every case from this NG I possibly could have, Greg.

Show me a case I avoided.

I'm working on cases from this NG you aren't even aware of, Greg.

> GH Or in difficult cases will you just be MEAN to them?

I've told any and all of the parents I've worked with what I believe,
whether they like it or not. .

> GH Where are your ethics on the tough cases?

Are there "tough cases" and easy CPS cases, Greg?

> GH Gonna just throw them away and swear at them?

You think your girlfriend's case is a "tough case," Greg?

If there was an "easy case" that'd be it.

Dan