Need help ... Interacting with girlfriends baby [Archive]

August 1st 03, 04:02 AM

awwwww, you sound nice to worry about this.
Be yourself, kids know when you are not.
In my opinion, dont force it, just spend time with him, play a few games,
and be very patient. :)

Hope all goes well

Fiona

"rwinnh" > wrote in message
m...
> Hello, I am a young man who is involved in a developing relationship
> with a single mother of a 1 yr old boy. I recently met him for the
> first few times, and while I am excited about getting involved with
> his life, I am admittedly very nervous and unsure of what to do.
> Things seem to go well, he seems to be smiling at me a lot and
> everything, but I have never been in a situation where I have
> interacted with young children, and would love to have someone elses
> perspectives on getting involved in the life of a younger child, and
> any tips they may have. Thank you very much in advance for any advice
> you have.

R. Steve Walz

August 1st 03, 04:25 AM

rwinnh wrote:
>
> Hello, I am a young man who is involved in a developing relationship
> with a single mother of a 1 yr old boy. I recently met him for the
> first few times, and while I am excited about getting involved with
> his life, I am admittedly very nervous and unsure of what to do.
> Things seem to go well, he seems to be smiling at me a lot and
> everything, but I have never been in a situation where I have
> interacted with young children, and would love to have someone elses
> perspectives on getting involved in the life of a younger child, and
> any tips they may have. Thank you very much in advance for any advice
> you have.
-------------
You need to learn english.
Steve

toto

August 1st 03, 05:40 AM

On 31 Jul 2003 19:17:03 -0700, (rwinnh) wrote:

>Hello, I am a young man who is involved in a developing relationship
>with a single mother of a 1 yr old boy. I recently met him for the
>first few times, and while I am excited about getting involved with
>his life, I am admittedly very nervous and unsure of what to do.
>Things seem to go well, he seems to be smiling at me a lot and
>everything, but I have never been in a situation where I have
>interacted with young children, and would love to have someone elses
>perspectives on getting involved in the life of a younger child, and
>any tips they may have. Thank you very much in advance for any advice
>you have.

At one infants and toddlers are self-centered and if you follow his
lead, you should be fine.

Don't try to push yourself on him, let him come to you (I assume he
is walking or at least crawling so he can get to you when you are
around).

Try playing some simple games with him. At this age he will
probably enjoy it if you build a block tower and let him knock it
over. He also will probably enjoy games like peek a boo and
patty cake or other nursery rhymes. If you sing or play music,
you can probably interest him by playing or singing children's
songs. Finger plays are good too. Read board books to him.
Repetition is the key at this age. Babies like to hear and see
the same books and songs over and over again.

Consider that you should talk to him and explain things to him
even if you think he doesn't understand. Name objects for him
when he points to them. Name the colors of things with him.
Play verbal games that let him know you are thinking of him.

When he allows it, try to do the normal things that are care-giving,
like giving a bottle if he is bottle-fed or feeding solids in his high
chair or diapering him. Infants and toddlers relate to people who
take care of them. When you do care for him, do so respectfully.
Toddlers like to know when you are going to pick them up and
not to be suddenly whisked away from their toys to be diapered.
So talk to him and tell him what you are going to do.

Babies are a lot of fun at this age. So enjoy and smile back at
him and just be natural around him.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

Wendy Marsden

August 1st 03, 02:32 PM

rwinnh > wrote:
> Hello, I am a young man who is involved in a developing relationship
> with a single mother of a 1 yr old boy.

Parenting is a little bit like having an obsessive hobby. It takes up ALL
your free time, it doesn't stop and it isn't all that much fun much of the
time. People do it for a variety of reasons, but the underlying reason is
love. If you aren't willing to love this child and spend 40 hours a week
for the next 17 years doing things with and for this child, find another
girlfriend.

I participate in a group supporting marriage and a reoccurring theme is
the marriage with toddlers/preschoolers falling apart. Typically one of
the partners come in saying, "we have a one year old and a three year old
and life is hard and I'm not having ANY fun with my partner, it's all work
work work. I want to find a partner who I can have fun with." They are
completely missing the point that the work comes from their situation, not
from having a bad partner. When life gets easier (like when the kids can
dress themselves, read to themselves, do toileting without help, etc.) the
marriage typically improves simply because the people have more leisure
time.

Anyway, my point is that a girlfriend who has overwhelming personal time
commitments isn't all that available for doing typical teen-age romance
stuff. Parents of one year olds get maybe two hours a week alone together
without their kid. I can't imagine how she even found time to date you to
start with!

Wendy

Astromum

August 1st 03, 03:31 PM

rwinnh wrote:

> Things seem to go well, he seems to be smiling at me a lot and
> everything, but I have never been in a situation where I have
> interacted with young children, and would love to have someone elses
> perspectives on getting involved in the life of a younger child

As already said: toddlers are very self-centered and will be
quite clear about what they like and what they don't like. Be
flexible, follow their 'lead' and you should be fine.

As an adult, you will have to learn how to play again. For a
toddler everything in the world is new. DS just discovered
gravity, and will throw anything down time and time again.
Try to see things in the same perspective, and soon you will
come up with the most impossible games to play, castles to
build and stories to tell.

Fun ways to start off: play hide and seek with a kitchen towel.
Have him discover different parts of your face. Build castles
with wooden blocks, or Lego that he can take apart. Have him
ride on your lap and sing a song, at one point in the song, let
him drop between your legs, or lift him up in the air, do this
several times and always drop/lift at the same point in the song
(of course holding on tight). HTH!

--
-- Ilse
mom to Olaf (07/15/2002)
TTC #2
"What's the use of brains if you are a girl?"
Aletta Jacobs, first Dutch woman to receive a PhD

Tom P

August 1st 03, 08:02 PM

What great advise Dorothy, just reading your advise will help me relate to
my own child. Well done.
"toto" > wrote in message
...
> On 31 Jul 2003 19:17:03 -0700, (rwinnh) wrote:
>
> >Hello, I am a young man who is involved in a developing relationship
> >with a single mother of a 1 yr old boy. I recently met him for the
> >first few times, and while I am excited about getting involved with
> >his life, I am admittedly very nervous and unsure of what to do.
> >Things seem to go well, he seems to be smiling at me a lot and
> >everything, but I have never been in a situation where I have
> >interacted with young children, and would love to have someone elses
> >perspectives on getting involved in the life of a younger child, and
> >any tips they may have. Thank you very much in advance for any advice
> >you have.
>
> At one infants and toddlers are self-centered and if you follow his
> lead, you should be fine.
>
> Don't try to push yourself on him, let him come to you (I assume he
> is walking or at least crawling so he can get to you when you are
> around).
>
> Try playing some simple games with him. At this age he will
> probably enjoy it if you build a block tower and let him knock it
> over. He also will probably enjoy games like peek a boo and
> patty cake or other nursery rhymes. If you sing or play music,
> you can probably interest him by playing or singing children's
> songs. Finger plays are good too. Read board books to him.
> Repetition is the key at this age. Babies like to hear and see
> the same books and songs over and over again.
>
> Consider that you should talk to him and explain things to him
> even if you think he doesn't understand. Name objects for him
> when he points to them. Name the colors of things with him.
> Play verbal games that let him know you are thinking of him.
>
> When he allows it, try to do the normal things that are care-giving,
> like giving a bottle if he is bottle-fed or feeding solids in his high
> chair or diapering him. Infants and toddlers relate to people who
> take care of them. When you do care for him, do so respectfully.
> Toddlers like to know when you are going to pick them up and
> not to be suddenly whisked away from their toys to be diapered.
> So talk to him and tell him what you are going to do.
>
> Babies are a lot of fun at this age. So enjoy and smile back at
> him and just be natural around him.
>
>
> --
> Dorothy
>
> There is no sound, no cry in all the world
> that can be heard unless someone listens ..
> Outer Limits

Elizabeth Reid

August 2nd 03, 03:11 AM

Wendy Marsden > wrote in message >...

> I participate in a group supporting marriage and a reoccurring theme is
> the marriage with toddlers/preschoolers falling apart. Typically one of
> the partners come in saying, "we have a one year old and a three year old
> and life is hard and I'm not having ANY fun with my partner, it's all work
> work work. I want to find a partner who I can have fun with." They are
> completely missing the point that the work comes from their situation, not
> from having a bad partner. When life gets easier (like when the kids can
> dress themselves, read to themselves, do toileting without help, etc.) the
> marriage typically improves simply because the people have more leisure
> time.
>
> Anyway, my point is that a girlfriend who has overwhelming personal time
> commitments isn't all that available for doing typical teen-age romance
> stuff. Parents of one year olds get maybe two hours a week alone together
> without their kid. I can't imagine how she even found time to date you to
> start with!

Maybe it's just because we're just entering the toddler stage
(my son is almost one) and I'm about to encounter a staggering
comeuppance, but... it's hard, but I'm not sure I think it's *that*
hard. What time do most people's one-year-olds go to bed? Mine
is usually down by eight and I'm good until ten, so we get
two hours a day alone together without our son. Granted, I'm
usually a little punchy, and it's not like we spend it gazing
into each other's eyes while violins play, mostly it's doing
dishes and laundry and such, but still, it's adult together
time and it does a lot to keep us connected with each other.

I freely admit that my house is a mess and we eat too much
convenience food and there's laundry everywhere in various stages
of done, and so on, so maybe it's my pathetically low standards
that make this all possible, or something.

Beth
Sam 8/16/2002

toto

August 2nd 03, 03:32 AM

On 1 Aug 2003 15:45:27 -0700, (rwinnh) wrote:

>As far as details that I didn't include in the first message. I am 19
>going on 20, and she is 26 going on 27, I know rereading my first
>message it sounded as if we were both probably teenagers and I wanted
>to correct that. As far as how she had the time to start dating me,
>her ex-husband/Kobi's father has custody of him every Sunday, so that
>was the time when we would date at the start of the relationship, and
>only recently now that she is comfortable with me being involved with
>her son as well have we spent time together on other days.

One thing you may also need to realize is that you are going to have
a relationship with her ex as well as with your gf and Kobi. You may
want to look into support groups for step-parenting as well if you
decide to live together or get married. As long as the relationship
is more casual and you are not acting in the role of parent with Kobi
full time, you may be able to ignore this, but if the relationship
becomes a full time one, it is wise to be prepared for the possible
complications that another parent in the picture *will* inevitably
present.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..
Outer Limits

Nikki

August 2nd 03, 04:37 AM

Elizabeth Reid wrote:
> Wendy Marsden > wrote in message
> >...
>
>> I participate in a group supporting marriage and a reoccurring theme
>> is the marriage with toddlers/preschoolers falling apart. Typically
>> one of the partners come in saying, "we have a one year old and a
>> three year old and life is hard and I'm not having ANY fun with my
>> partner, it's all work work work. I want to find a partner who I
>> can have fun with." They are completely missing the point that the
>> work comes from their situation, not from having a bad partner.
>> When life gets easier (like when the kids can dress themselves, read
>> to themselves, do toileting without help, etc.) the marriage
>> typically improves simply because the people have more leisure time.
>>
>> Anyway, my point is that a girlfriend who has overwhelming personal
>> time commitments isn't all that available for doing typical teen-age
>> romance stuff. Parents of one year olds get maybe two hours a week
>> alone together without their kid. I can't imagine how she even
>> found time to date you to start with!
>
> Maybe it's just because we're just entering the toddler stage
> (my son is almost one) and I'm about to encounter a staggering
> comeuppance, but... it's hard, but I'm not sure I think it's *that*
> hard. What time do most people's one-year-olds go to bed?

I wouldn't describe it so dismally and my marriage is fine but it sounded
right on the mark to me. There are many factors including the intensity of
the children, # of hours the parents work, personality of the parents etc.
etc. My time is pretty much all accounted for until 10 most night and it is
only in the last few months that I can count on my two actually sleeping
alone for any meaningful length of time so I can have my very own free time
or couple time (but dh is generally sleeping by then). The age mine are now
(2 and 4) I'm just more worn out then ever with how much *work* they are
just to keep them clothed and fed much less entertained and I haven't even
started potty training Luke :-) Jeez, I wanted 3???? Not till these two can
put on their own shoes, open all the doors, and do their own seat belts,
Lol.
--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

Kereru

August 2nd 03, 08:49 AM

"Wendy Marsden" > wrote in message
...
> rwinnh > wrote:
> > Hello, I am a young man who is involved in a developing relationship
> > with a single mother of a 1 yr old boy.
>
> Parenting is a little bit like having an obsessive hobby. It takes up ALL
> your free time, it doesn't stop and it isn't all that much fun much of the
> time.

My little boy is 22 months and I'd say life is a lot of fun most of the
time. Maybe I'm particularly lucky? Yeah sure it doesn't stop but you can
still have loads of fun while you do it.

People do it for a variety of reasons, but the underlying reason is
> love. If you aren't willing to love this child and spend 40 hours a week
> for the next 17 years doing things with and for this child, find another
> girlfriend.

I imagine the guy will be at work for forty hours a week and the rest of the
week will be a combination of time with the girlfriend and her child, and
time for the two of them while baby is in bed or with a baby sitter. You
just have to be organised.

> I participate in a group supporting marriage and a reoccurring theme is
> the marriage with toddlers/preschoolers falling apart. Typically one of
> the partners come in saying, "we have a one year old and a three year old
> and life is hard and I'm not having ANY fun with my partner, it's all work
> work work. I want to find a partner who I can have fun with." They are
> completely missing the point that the work comes from their situation, not
> from having a bad partner. When life gets easier (like when the kids can
> dress themselves, read to themselves, do toileting without help, etc.) the
> marriage typically improves simply because the people have more leisure
> time.
>
> Anyway, my point is that a girlfriend who has overwhelming personal time
> commitments isn't all that available for doing typical teen-age romance
> stuff. Parents of one year olds get maybe two hours a week alone together
> without their kid. I can't imagine how she even found time to date you to
> start with!
>
> Wendy

DS goes to bed at 7.30pm, we have a great extended family who can babysit if
we want to go out. Even if we stay in we are together. So if I go to bed at
10.30pm that's at least 21 hours a week alone together or for us to get out
or do our own thing.

It's not always as bleak as you are painting it. My relationship has only
strengthened with a toddler in the house. It does take a little extra work
and organisation but it's possible.

Judy

Elizabeth Reid

August 2nd 03, 12:54 PM

"Nikki" > wrote in message news:<3f29e04b_4@newsfeed>...
> Elizabeth Reid wrote:
> > Wendy Marsden > wrote in message
> > >...

> >> Anyway, my point is that a girlfriend who has overwhelming personal
> >> time commitments isn't all that available for doing typical teen-age
> >> romance stuff. Parents of one year olds get maybe two hours a week
> >> alone together without their kid. I can't imagine how she even
> >> found time to date you to start with!
> >
> > Maybe it's just because we're just entering the toddler stage
> > (my son is almost one) and I'm about to encounter a staggering
> > comeuppance, but... it's hard, but I'm not sure I think it's *that*
> > hard. What time do most people's one-year-olds go to bed?
>
> I wouldn't describe it so dismally and my marriage is fine but it sounded
> right on the mark to me. There are many factors including the intensity of
> the children, # of hours the parents work, personality of the parents etc.
> etc. My time is pretty much all accounted for until 10 most night and it is
> only in the last few months that I can count on my two actually sleeping
> alone for any meaningful length of time so I can have my very own free time
> or couple time (but dh is generally sleeping by then). The age mine are now
> (2 and 4) I'm just more worn out then ever with how much *work* they are
> just to keep them clothed and fed much less entertained and I haven't even
> started potty training Luke :-) Jeez, I wanted 3???? Not till these two can
> put on their own shoes, open all the doors, and do their own seat belts,
> Lol.

Yeah, this is one big reason we think we might stop at one. But
the OP's girlfriend only has one, so her experience might be
more like mine.

I mostly spoke up because I remember reading these posts when
I was pregnant, and they scared me silly. I fell into some
sort of prenatal depression when I was about eight weeks along,
I think, and every time someone made a comment about my life
being over or I saw a post like Wendy's, I thought, what have
I done?!? No joking, I really felt awful. I had one friend
who's a parent of a two-year-old send me condolences instead of
congratulations when he heard I was pregnant. Made me feel
just great.

So anyway, I feel compelled to testify that at the moment
it's hard for us, but not as hard as Wendy's picture. Sam does
sleep for some stretches of time, we get a few hours in the
evening to chat while we do chores, and our time while he's
awake doesn't feel like work work work even if in a sense
that's what it is. He's awfully cute in our biased eyes,
and we have lots of fun hanging out as a threesome, even
if our primary activity is thwarting his attempts at self-
destruction. I don't have a sense of us putting off enjoyment
until he turns five, I guess is what I mean.

Beth
Sam 8/16/2002

llama mama

August 2nd 03, 01:40 PM

(Elizabeth Reid) wrote in
om:

> Wendy Marsden > wrote in message
> >...
>
>> I participate in a group supporting marriage and a reoccurring theme
>> is the marriage with toddlers/preschoolers falling apart. Typically
>> one of the partners come in saying, "we have a one year old and a
>> three year old and life is hard and I'm not having ANY fun with my
>> partner, it's all work work work. I want to find a partner who I can
>> have fun with." They are completely missing the point that the work
>> comes from their situation, not from having a bad partner. When life
>> gets easier (like when the kids can dress themselves, read to
>> themselves, do toileting without help, etc.) the marriage typically
>> improves simply because the people have more leisure time.
>>
>> Anyway, my point is that a girlfriend who has overwhelming personal
>> time commitments isn't all that available for doing typical teen-age
>> romance stuff. Parents of one year olds get maybe two hours a week
>> alone together without their kid. I can't imagine how she even found
>> time to date you to start with!
>
> Maybe it's just because we're just entering the toddler stage
> (my son is almost one) and I'm about to encounter a staggering
> comeuppance, but... it's hard, but I'm not sure I think it's *that*
> hard. What time do most people's one-year-olds go to bed? Mine
> is usually down by eight and I'm good until ten, so we get
> two hours a day alone together without our son. Granted, I'm
> usually a little punchy, and it's not like we spend it gazing
> into each other's eyes while violins play, mostly it's doing
> dishes and laundry and such, but still, it's adult together
> time and it does a lot to keep us connected with each other.

it depends on your kid. at one, my kid was never out of my arms or off
my lap. when he went to bed, so did i. i did any housework i was going to
do while lugging the kid. if i was very lucky i could set him down for 5
minutes & do something, but that was vanishingly rare. he wouldn't have
anything to do with even his daddy at that stage either, so i couldn't
pawn him off & get time for a shower even. (fortunately, i didn't know
all babies weren't like that at the time<g>)
at 3, i still go to bed when he does, but at least he will play by
himself or with daddy for 15-20 minutes, so i can get a few more things
done. yesterday he fell asleep on a chair instead of my lap for the first
time. i cleaned my office. it was wonderful (until he woke up & stressed
from being alone).
i still have no idea what normal kids are really like, but one can adapt
to high-needs kids if necessary. parents are grown-ups. it's *not* all
about them anymore. if they don't realize that, they shouldn't have kids.
there's no guarantee any kid will be easy. and any father that whines
about not getting time with wifey or a clean house deserves to be left
alone with the kid(s) for a week :p
BTW, if they complain about not having 'fun', i suspect they need to
learn a new definition of fun. how can you NOT have fun with a 1 year old
& a 3 year old? thier perspectives on things are hilarious (even when
they are driving you to distraction)
>
> I freely admit that my house is a mess and we eat too much
> convenience food and there's laundry everywhere in various stages
> of done, and so on, so maybe it's my pathetically low standards
> that make this all possible, or something.

my house is a mess, i don't like convenience food so we eat a lot of
stir-fry or casseroles (crockpots are handy, too). i wash the laundry,
Tom sorts & folds, we each put our own away. i do get more cleaning done
in the winter though. summer here means clipping the llamas, working the
llamas & gardening. inside stuff is really backburner.

lee
--
It is paradoxical that many educators and parents still differentiate
between a time for learning and a time for play without seeing the vital
connection between them. -Leo Buscaglia, author (1924-1998)

0tterbot

August 2nd 03, 02:07 PM

"rwinnh" > wrote in message
om...
> I would like to thank everyone who has given me their suggestions and
> advice over the last day. And I just wanted to give a little more
> information about my relationship and other details that a few people
> have inquired about.
>
> First and foremost, I had done a lot of thinking prior to meeting her
> son Kobi for the first time. My girlfriend was very upfront about him
> being her highest priority from day #1, and as the relationship has
> grown, my admiration of how great of a mother she is has grown as
> well. And I am 100% sure that I want to have a relationship of 3, to
> have both my girlfriend and him in my life and to do things together
> and spend time together.
>
> As far as details that I didn't include in the first message. I am 19
> going on 20, and she is 26 going on 27, I know rereading my first
> message it sounded as if we were both probably teenagers and I wanted
> to correct that. As far as how she had the time to start dating me,
> her ex-husband/Kobi's father has custody of him every Sunday, so that
> was the time when we would date at the start of the relationship, and
> only recently now that she is comfortable with me being involved with
> her son as well have we spent time together on other days.
>
> Anyway, I cannot begin to thank everyone for their comments. I know
> just how much I want for Kobi to like me and for the three of us to
> fit well as a single unit. My concerns were always of not knowing the
> exact thing to do to make things work and to make him happy. But I
> know that there is no real rule book to parenting and interacting with
> younger children, and I am glad that there are people willing to give
> their advice and opinions. And from the time I have had in my
> relationship, I have even more respect and admiration for all parents,
> especially single parents. I will keep reading the board for any
> other suggestions, thank you for your support.

i think you're going into it with both eyes open, and since you want a
relationship with the baby, that will make all the difference. follow his
lead & have fun with him & see how it develops. best of luck & hope it
continues to go well :-)
kylie

Wendy Marsden

August 2nd 03, 03:42 PM

Elizabeth Reid > wrote:

> I mostly spoke up because I remember reading these posts when
> I was pregnant, and they scared me silly.

I'm sorry if I made it sound bleak. I didn't mean it to sound like my
world was terrible with toddlers - it wasn't. But my world WAS centered
on toddlers and I *barely* had enough time and energy to keep my own
marriage together (it really got tough after the second) and that was in a
situation with planned pregnancies and the man in question was as devoted
to the children as I was.

The fact is, though, that a marriage needs some private grown-up time (at
least mine does) and there was a period of time in there where it was
being neglected. I don't mean to extrapolate to all of your marriages
being in danger, but I do mean to point out to the OP that he isn't going
to get a relationship with this woman all by herself.

When I had one and three year olds I recall a co-worker who went skiing
every week-end for about six months of the year and most week-day evenings
in the winter. He had an all-consuming hobby that took every spare minute
of his time and money. I recall thinking that it was JUST LIKE having
kids. Mind you, both he and I *enjoyed* our time and money consuming
"hobbies", but they just don't leave much room to bring new people into
a relationship with you.

> So anyway, I feel compelled to testify that at the moment
> it's hard for us, but not as hard as Wendy's picture. Sam does
> sleep for some stretches of time, we get a few hours in the
> evening to chat while we do chores, and our time while he's
> awake doesn't feel like work work work even if in a sense
> that's what it is. He's awfully cute in our biased eyes,
> and we have lots of fun hanging out as a threesome, even
> if our primary activity is thwarting his attempts at self-
> destruction. I don't have a sense of us putting off enjoyment
> until he turns five, I guess is what I mean.

Read this again. You get to chat while you do chores. You get to hang
out playing with the baby. Does this sound like a great date to a 19 year
old? My memory is that they like sex, too. I don't even WANT to go into
my memories of how much sex I wanted when I was working full-time and the
mother of a toddler. Let's just say it wasn't quite up to the standards
of a 19 year old man.

Wendy

Wendy Marsden

August 2nd 03, 03:55 PM

0tterbot > wrote:
> when my first baby was one, he
> went to sleep at 6-ish every night & still had several naps during the day.
> i would call this a lot of time together without him (without him conscious,
> that is). we also still did (& do) go out at night sometimes. there are
> people who will babysit.

That wasn't my experience. Please note that I loved having my kids and
*did* enjoy their babyhood. My best summer of my life was the year they
were four and two and I spent the summer hanging out with them. It was
better than any summer on the Riviera.

But my kids aren't sleepers. The older one cried from 8 to 9 pm every
night for a YEAR when she was three. This started about the time our
second one was six months old. They shared a room. I cannot even begin
to tell you how stressful that child was to us. Our third child is also
not a sleeper but he is at least very cheerful about it. I call him
"relentless boy". On a recent child development questionaire a question
asked was when he started talking. I wrote, "at birth and continuously
since."

Joking aside, the child gave up his second nap when he was about four
months old and gave up ALL naps when he was two. He just turned four
and sleeps from 10 pm to 7 am. His older sister sleeps from 11 pm or
midnight to 8 am or so. I would think this was normal except that my
middle child sleeps like other people's kids seem to.

So your experiences about having alone time with your husband are vastly,
radically different than mine. Add to that the fact that we live nowhere
near family and babysitters are expensive and you get a couple who don't
go out on adult dates very often.

Now, I'm not asking for pity. My life (and marriage) are just fine. We
truly *like* are kids and devote ourselves to them. Our kids are old
enough and our support structure is in place enough so that we *can* get
away once in a while now.

But do you understand that I'm telling this young man that life with a
toddler is fundamentally about the toddler? I'm sorry if I made it sound
like toddler days aren't fun. But it truly isn't a lifestyle for everyone
and the people I would think it was LEAST for would be an unrelated 19
year old man.

Wendy

Sue

August 2nd 03, 06:43 PM

Elizabeth Reid > wrote in message
> Maybe it's just because we're just entering the toddler stage
> (my son is almost one) and I'm about to encounter a staggering
> comeuppance, but... it's hard, but I'm not sure I think it's *that*
> hard. What time do most people's one-year-olds go to bed? Mine
> is usually down by eight and I'm good until ten, so we get
> two hours a day alone together without our son. Granted, I'm
> usually a little punchy, and it's not like we spend it gazing
> into each other's eyes while violins play, mostly it's doing
> dishes and laundry and such, but still, it's adult together
> time and it does a lot to keep us connected with each other.
>
> I freely admit that my house is a mess and we eat too much
> convenience food and there's laundry everywhere in various stages
> of done, and so on, so maybe it's my pathetically low standards
> that make this all possible, or something.
>
> Beth
> Sam 8/16/2002

My kids go to bed at around 10 pm because they are out of school for the
summer. When they are in school, I want them in bed by 8:30-9:00 PM. And
then I go to bed because I get up early to work at home. So no, not too much
time after they go to bed to have alone time.

Um, while Wendy's perception is a quite grim, Elizabeth you only have one
child. When I only had one child, life was fun. It was exciting to see her
learn new things and it was fun playing with her. I have three kids now, and
life is far from fun at this moment. But, to say that it is never fun isn't
a good description either. My life waffles between being harried and busy
to enjoying watching them develop their own personalities to deep love that
I can't imagine my life without them.

Each of my children has their own thing going. I run all the time here and
there for them. I don't have a moments peace. I don't get many breaks
without them at all. I have been with these children 24/7 since they got out
of school and frankly, it is wearing on me. It doesn't help that I am
experiencing lots of fighting between two children right now and
pre-hormones are raging.

My marriage is extremely stable. We made this commitment to these children
and since we are the adults, our needs can be put off. We are able to spend
some time with each other in the evening and since I am a home body, it
doesn't bother me too much that we haven't been out together alone in eight
months. There is never enough money, never enough time for each one of them,
never enough energy to keep up. But, we made the decision to have them and
we are making the best of it. I also believe that Wendy was emphasizing the
bad parts of being a parent to this VERY YOUNG OP to make sure that his
decision to stay with this mom doesn't end up hurting the baby. The young
OP needs to make sure that he is ready for this life-long responsibility and
frankly at 19, I couldn't make a decision like that.
--
Sue
mom to three girls

dragonlady

August 2nd 03, 07:58 PM

In article >,
Wendy Marsden > wrote:

> Elizabeth Reid > wrote:
>
> > I mostly spoke up because I remember reading these posts when
> > I was pregnant, and they scared me silly.
>
> I'm sorry if I made it sound bleak. I didn't mean it to sound like my
> world was terrible with toddlers - it wasn't. But my world WAS centered
> on toddlers and I *barely* had enough time and energy to keep my own
> marriage together (it really got tough after the second) and that was in a
> situation with planned pregnancies and the man in question was as devoted
> to the children as I was.
>
> The fact is, though, that a marriage needs some private grown-up time (at
> least mine does) and there was a period of time in there where it was
> being neglected. I don't mean to extrapolate to all of your marriages
> being in danger, but I do mean to point out to the OP that he isn't going
> to get a relationship with this woman all by herself.

Yes, but sometimes that time has to be put on hold, at least
temporarily, and the ability to do that can be important.

DH and I had a serious conversation about this when we had a 3 yo and
infant twins, and basically agreed that *our* relationship was not going
to have much attention for some period of time, but that we knew we'd
get back to it. And we did OK with that.

meh
--
Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

Banty

August 2nd 03, 09:54 PM

In article >,
dragonlady says...
>
>
>DH and I had a serious conversation about this when we had a 3 yo and
>infant twins, and basically agreed that *our* relationship was not going
>to have much attention for some period of time, but that we knew we'd
>get back to it. And we did OK with that.

Gee.

Realizing that life goes through phases, and not expecting some constant level
of reinforcement in all your relationships.

WHAT PLANET ARE *YOU* FROM!!!

:-)

Banty (really - that's rare, wonderfully centered and mature and constructive,
but damn rare)

Elizabeth Reid

August 3rd 03, 02:22 AM

"Sue" > wrote in message >...

> Um, while Wendy's perception is a quite grim, Elizabeth you only have one
> child. When I only had one child, life was fun. It was exciting to see her
> learn new things and it was fun playing with her. I have three kids now, and
> life is far from fun at this moment. But, to say that it is never fun isn't
> a good description either. My life waffles between being harried and busy
> to enjoying watching them develop their own personalities to deep love that
> I can't imagine my life without them.

Oh, this is totally true, I'm sure it makes a huge difference to
have more than one. But the situation the OP was describing
involved a single child, so I don't know how much of the toughness
of having more than one would affect them right now, although
obviously it would be an issue if they decided to have a child
together.

> Each of my children has their own thing going. I run all the time here and
> there for them. I don't have a moments peace. I don't get many breaks
> without them at all. I have been with these children 24/7 since they got out
> of school and frankly, it is wearing on me. It doesn't help that I am
> experiencing lots of fighting between two children right now and
> pre-hormones are raging.

It sounds tough. I hope you're hanging in there. Is school
starting soon?

> My marriage is extremely stable. We made this commitment to these children
> and since we are the adults, our needs can be put off. We are able to spend
> some time with each other in the evening and since I am a home body, it
> doesn't bother me too much that we haven't been out together alone in eight
> months. There is never enough money, never enough time for each one of them,
> never enough energy to keep up. But, we made the decision to have them and
> we are making the best of it. I also believe that Wendy was emphasizing the
> bad parts of being a parent to this VERY YOUNG OP to make sure that his
> decision to stay with this mom doesn't end up hurting the baby. The young
> OP needs to make sure that he is ready for this life-long responsibility and
> frankly at 19, I couldn't make a decision like that.

I've known various people who were moms at 19 (the MIL I mentioned in
another post and a few friends) and they were all capable of making
the sacrifices necessary for parenthood. Granted, the situations
were different in that they were the biological parents of the
children in question and didn't have the choice of 'trying'
parenthood and then walking away. I just know that some young
people can be good parents. Whether the OP can be one is not
something I can know, but personally I wouldn't assume he can't
be just on the basis of age.

Beth

Nikki

August 3rd 03, 04:54 AM

Elizabeth Reid wrote:

> Yeah, this is one big reason we think we might stop at one. But
> the OP's girlfriend only has one, so her experience might be
> more like mine.
>
> I mostly spoke up because I remember reading these posts when
> I was pregnant, and they scared me silly. I fell into some
> sort of prenatal depression when I was about eight weeks along,
> I think, and every time someone made a comment about my life
> being over or I saw a post like Wendy's, I thought, what have
> I done?!? No joking, I really felt awful. I had one friend
> who's a parent of a two-year-old send me condolences instead of
> congratulations when he heard I was pregnant. Made me feel
> just great.
>
> So anyway, I feel compelled to testify that at the moment
> it's hard for us, but not as hard as Wendy's picture. Sam does
> sleep for some stretches of time, we get a few hours in the
> evening to chat while we do chores, and our time while he's
> awake doesn't feel like work work work even if in a sense
> that's what it is. He's awfully cute in our biased eyes,
> and we have lots of fun hanging out as a threesome, even
> if our primary activity is thwarting his attempts at self-
> destruction. I don't have a sense of us putting off enjoyment
> until he turns five, I guess is what I mean.

I see where you are coming from now. I do want to clarify that when *I* say
it is a lot of work I don't necessarly mean work as something negative.
What I should say is that the majority of my time is spent taking care of
the kids. I guess I say work because it isn't something I can not do. But
I want to do it, that is why I had them :-) I certainly do not feel as if I
am putting of enjoyement, they are my enjoyment.

--
Nikki
Mama to Hunter (4) and Luke (2)

Barbara Bomberger

August 3rd 03, 12:25 PM

On Sat, 02 Aug 2003 13:03:32 GMT, "0tterbot" > wrote:

>"Wendy Marsden" > wrote in message
...
>> rwinnh > wrote:
>> > Hello, I am a young man who is involved in a developing relationship
>> > with a single mother of a 1 yr old boy.
>>
>> Parenting is a little bit like having an obsessive hobby. It takes up ALL
>> your free time, it doesn't stop and it isn't all that much fun much of the
>> time.
>
>millions would disagree. i find it unexpectedly fun, & the parts that aren't
>fun aren't always not-fun either. it's like anything - it won't be fun all
>the time but can be positive in other ways. (even really ****ty days can be
>positive - because there's another ****ty day you won't have again. ****ty
>days as a parent are much more instructive than ****ty days at work, for
>example).

Okay, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. While there were
times I was stressed and tired, for the most part I enjoyed my
children's babyhood. It was fun.

I was also a single parent with an infant, toddler and then
preschooler, working full time, sometimes doing shift work, with my
fist child. If I had stress, it wasn't from the child, she was a joy.
It was from the "scheduling:" that parents, especially single parents
have to do.

I also had an active social life, and even sex on occasion during my
oldest daughter's young years. I dated, and I regularly took time for
myself. I also went on dates with my child, but if it was someone I
was casually dating (and yes I did), I didnt introduce them to
daughter right away.

As well as going on dates alone, we spent alot of fun time with my
child, that gave us time together and enjoy Katie as wello. We went
to the beach and had picnics, we went to the zoo, we went on hikes, we
sat on the pation and had burgers while she played in the grass.

While I dint go to parrites, beer blasts and so on, I would suggest
that all nineteen year olds dont do that either, and its a disservice
to assume they do.

Eventually I met someone when my oldest was four, and quite frankly it
was much more difficult introducing a new adult into her life at four
and five than it may have been earlier.
>
> People do it for a variety of reasons, but the underlying reason is
>> love. If you aren't willing to love this child and spend 40 hours a week
>> for the next 17 years doing things with and for this child, find another
>> girlfriend. (snip)

Okay, now said daughter is twenty four, youngest is fourteen and you
know what, I actually spend hours weekly "not" doing something with
and for the child. Heck, he actually spends alot of time doing things
for me these days, while I am elsewhere (that 800 dollar phone bill
you know).

while we all have different parenting styles and different
personalities in our kids, your view really sounds scary to me.

Barb

Barbara Bomberger

August 3rd 03, 12:29 PM

On 1 Aug 2003 15:45:27 -0700, (rwinnh) wrote:

>I would like to thank everyone who has given me their suggestions and
>advice over the last day. And I just wanted to give a little more
>information about my relationship and other details that a few people
>have inquired about.
>
>First and foremost, I had done a lot of thinking prior to meeting her
>son Kobi for the first time. My girlfriend was very upfront about him
>being her highest priority from day #1, and as the relationship has
>grown, my admiration of how great of a mother she is has grown as
>well. And I am 100% sure that I want to have a relationship of 3, to
>have both my girlfriend and him in my life and to do things together
>and spend time together.
Good for you, glad you thought about this. Realize though, that you
are still beginning a relationship and your decisions may change. This
is not a bad thing.
>
>As far as details that I didn't include in the first message. I am 19
>going on 20, and she is 26 going on 27, I know rereading my first
>message it sounded as if we were both probably teenagers and I wanted
>to correct that. As far as how she had the time to start dating me,
>her ex-husband/Kobi's father has custody of him every Sunday, so that
>was the time when we would date at the start of the relationship, and
>only recently now that she is comfortable with me being involved with
>her son as well have we spent time together on other days.
Sound slike me. ONly I didnt have family, I had a regular babysitter
one night a week and an afternoon for a couple hours. So I had time
to date and to explore the "single world" alone. Once I had dated
someone for awhile then I would introduce child.

The best advise I can give you is to be honest in your relationshp
and to the child. If you are relaxed and yoruself, the relationship
will gradually progress. Just dont be too pushy and let the child
come to you, if that makes any sense.

As far as the "being in control part" let mom do that as much as
possilbe in the beginning and then slowly work yourself into that role
if the relationship progresses.

Good Luck to you both

Barb

Stephanie and Tim

August 3rd 03, 07:22 PM

"dragonlady" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> Wendy Marsden > wrote:
>
> > Elizabeth Reid > wrote:
> >
> > > I mostly spoke up because I remember reading these posts when
> > > I was pregnant, and they scared me silly.
> >
> > I'm sorry if I made it sound bleak. I didn't mean it to sound like my
> > world was terrible with toddlers - it wasn't. But my world WAS centered
> > on toddlers and I *barely* had enough time and energy to keep my own
> > marriage together (it really got tough after the second) and that was in
a
> > situation with planned pregnancies and the man in question was as
devoted
> > to the children as I was.
> >
> > The fact is, though, that a marriage needs some private grown-up time
(at
> > least mine does) and there was a period of time in there where it was
> > being neglected. I don't mean to extrapolate to all of your marriages
> > being in danger, but I do mean to point out to the OP that he isn't
going
> > to get a relationship with this woman all by herself.
>
> Yes, but sometimes that time has to be put on hold, at least
> temporarily, and the ability to do that can be important.
>
> DH and I had a serious conversation about this when we had a 3 yo and
> infant twins, and basically agreed that *our* relationship was not going
> to have much attention for some period of time, but that we knew we'd
> get back to it. And we did OK with that.
>

I have a hard time understanding that. A big new part of our relationship is
our son. Not the only part, to be sure. We go out on dates and stuff. But I
would not be a very competent Mom if I could not share opinions and whatnot
with DH. We do not talk ONLY about DS and our upcoming DD. We still talk
about work and whatnot. But we still know what is going on in each other's
thoughts and feelings most of the time. We have not roller bladed in over 3
years. But that is not what our marriage is made of. You know what I mean?

I think the work / hard thing is largely a matter of attitude. When my Dad
had a brain injury and my Mom was caring for him at home, after a long, long
time in hospitals and rehabs and whatnot, she would admit that this was the
hardest thing she had ever done. But she said what you have to do in life is
"find your responsibilities and make them your joy." "In the old days" there
was a greater population whose life centered on survival. I would bet,
though I certainly have no way to prove, that the difference between the
happy and the grumpy was largely a matter of attitude.

Don't get me wrong, I am not accusing anyone here of being a grump. I just
am differing with the statement
"*our* relationship was not going to have much attention for some period of
time"

It seems to me that, though a marital relationship changes when children
come, that it can morph into a different set of interactions that are part
of the new reality. That's all.

S

>
> meh
> --
> Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care
>

Wendy Marsden

August 3rd 03, 08:29 PM

Stephanie and Tim > wrote:

> I have a hard time understanding that. A big new part of our relationship is
> our son. Not the only part, to be sure. We go out on dates and stuff.

See, I would disagree that your son is part of your relationship. You
have a relationship with your son, he has a relationship with your son,
and you and your DH have a relationship.

Two people who both love the same kid can do things together that revolve
around the kid and both enjoy it. If that's what you mean by it being
part of your relationship then I'd agree. My husband and I frequently do
activities together with the children that revolve around doing what the
kids want to do. I somehow doubt that it would be as enjoyable for a man
who isn't ga ga in love with the kids, though.

I'm also glad to see you go on dates. I am very disheartened to see just
how many people are divorcing when they've got a three year old. I think
people forget that the relationship needs to be nurtured between the
adults. I know that was a big part of the problem during the rough patch
that my marriage went through.

Wendy

Wendy Marsden

August 3rd 03, 08:34 PM

Banty > wrote:
> Yeah - I was a single mom with a baby, and although granted I was much
> older and more settled, it wasn't like I only had two hours to myself
> the whole week! And I did find time to date, etc.

I never said I didn't have two hours to myself the whole week. I said I
could barely scrape together two hours a week with my husband. Between
chores, taking care of the children, work schedules, exhaustion (a
constant, as I recall) and lack of child-care we just didn't have much in
the way of quality time.

Your mileage may vary. I'm glad you were able to date. I recall my
mother dating, too, and it wasn't an awful thing... until she brought a
guy home to live with us (and eventually married us.) That wasn't a great
thing. (But I don't feel like going into my rant today about parents who
displace teen kids when they have a new love.)

Wendy

Elizabeth Reid

August 4th 03, 01:18 PM

"Nikki" > wrote in message news:<3f2c8834$1_3@newsfeed>...

> > I don't know about the 'man' part, but I do know that the
> > '19' part can make more or less difference depending on the person
> > in question. My MIL was married with two kids by the time she
> > was 19. I think more depends on life experiences and basic
> > maturity level. I don't know anything about the OP beside his
> > few posts, but you never know, he might well be up to the
> > challenge.
> >
> He might be, but I can't imagine her having the will/desire to build a new
> relationship while mothering an infant. I know plenty of people do it, I
> certainly would not be one of them, lol. Good think the world has all
> types.

She's a little older... but I have to agree with you for myself
too. At any maturity level, I'm not sure I can picture having
an intense relationship with a baby and an equally intense just-
budding new romance. I'm more of an introvert, so maybe a
high-energy extrovert would have no problem with this.

Beth
Sam 8/16/2003