As I said computer contracts questionable w DCF FL

[Fern5827]

The state has spent at least 45M on a computer system which cw's do not find
easy to navigate.

As I wrote years ago, there's lots of wiggle room in these sweetheart contracts
forged between vendors and the state.

And lots of the juice gets masked with confidentiality label.

Regier is now down. Even the Editorial writers and columnists were openly
speculating that Regier must have had something on Bush to remain in charge for
so long when such unethical, not to say illegal conduct was discovered.

And that's just what transpired. Now the news about the deals is surfacing.

[Kane]

On 02 Sep 2004 17:21:34 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

>The state has spent at least 45M on a computer system which cw's do
not find
>easy to navigate.

Your criticizm on EVERYTHING detracts from criticisms on those
essential points that can and should be addressed. Child safety, in
FL, is obviously the issue that needs attention first.

This is what I mean by "kneecapping." Of you truly wanted reform, you
phony, you would ask for a focus on one point at a time, prioritizing.
Has no ony ever exposed you to management practicies and theory?

If you throw your workers all problems at once, not only will little
get done, but that will probably be botched.

Does that sound to you like a discription of any organization model
YOU know of already?

Hint: What agency in America has more issues to juggle at once likely
than any other?

What agency is most severely underfunded for it's workload, short
handed, short of time to train emplyees, short of training money to
develop and deliver curriculum, short of adequate pay standards to
attract and hold top quality staff?

Get a 10 year old to help you figure it out if I've Stumped you with
too many hard questions.

You remind me of the old farmer that was a hard scrabble failure while
all around him other similar farms prospered. The answer was simple.
He couldn't make his horses plow, or draw the mower, or the planter or
tiller. In fact they had stopped pulling years ago.

Why?

Because he had the nasty habit of putting them in traces, and
screaming "Giddup!!!!" and when they lunged forward into their
collars, snapped the traces chains tight and began to pull the
overheavy loads he would attach them to his way of rewarding them was
to go to the whip, screaming "Giddup!" louder and hitting harder.

I once loaded a young skittish mare that would not load in a truck
after watching the handler do exactly that to her...He would hit her
as she was just about to step INTO the truck bed. She would lunge bakc
away from this monsterous machine that pained her when she approached.

That went on for half and hour until I intervened and put her in
myself.

How did I get her in? Well, I'd like to have had time to gentle her
in, as I had with all horses I trained, that would enter my trailers
and trucks upon my quiet voice or handsignal, with not even a halter
on them..just walking free, but I had to move that little mare that
day to a polo training camp I ran.

So I got up on her, road her up to the back of the truck, spun her
around, and hit her once lightly with the nasty polo whip he'd been
using...not hard enough to hurt, just to trigger the same reaction he
had just taught her.

Of course, she lunged "back" up the ramp into the truck bed. So fast
the guy almost didn't catch what happened. He signed on with me for
lessons shortly after. I used to train horseman in many disciplines.

I could train you, and in fact you'll figure out one day that I have,
right here in this ng in front of everyone....and you knowing now will
be NO protection against me continuing to train you. Enjoy.

>As I wrote years ago, there's lots of wiggle room in these sweetheart
contracts
>forged between vendors and the state.

Well now. Are you an expert in what the normal costs would be to
develop a statewide computer system? Have you ever written a RFP for a
contract that big, on information management?

Are you in fact trained in information management? Even just setting
up a single LAN on site? Can you cost out, say a 150 station system
with two to six servers for provision and backup?

So you know the size the FL system would require? Do you know the
numbr of caseworkers, and computer using support staff (which these
days would require on every worker and support persons desk, every
manager, every administrator, every supervisor, even caseworker aide,
and the receptionist in every office?

When you can show us that $45 mil is excessive based on a cost
analysis, get back to us and let us in on it. If you are correct I
might call FL (I have before) and see if your work would be of help to
them. They need it...and in the meantime, while YOU are occupied and
out of their hair, they can get on with the top priorities.....child
safety.

>And lots of the juice gets masked with confidentiality label.

That could be. Can you provide us with something we could use if we
actually wanted to make a useful criticism directly to the state of
FL? Just standing around bitching at them in a general sense, as you
do, doesn't actually help.

>Regier is now down. Even the Editorial writers and columnists were
openly
>speculating

The world is full of speculation. Sometimes it right, but more often
it is wrong or incomplete, or an out and out pile of bull****. I see a
lot of that here, moreso with you than any other poster. Aren't you
proud of your status?

> that Regier must have had something on Bush to remain in charge for
>so long when such unethical,

While it may turn out that he behaved unethically. we cannot be sure
just from media accounts. When they are wrong they come back less
strong than when they made the claim earlier. Every notice?

I notice when YOU are caught out in error you don't even come back at
all. That called "immoral and unethical" in the media.

> not to say illegal conduct was discovered.

He has been convicted then? I hadn't even heard of charges, let alone
a trial. Could they have held secret trials...HERE, in America?

Please point us to a source that will varify his guilt by our system
of laws, not your sloppy newsgroup babbling accusations.

>And that's just what transpired.

I'd like to decide after watching the legal process unfold and come to
conclusion. Why is it you are unable to contain your blood lust and
must rush to judgement on your own? You a trained LE detective, a
lawyer, a prosecutor, a judge? Or any combination there of?

> Now the news about the deals is surfacing.

"News" is not proof. We just saw, for instance, in ascps, Sherman post
a newspaper correction that completely changed the significance of a
prior statement, that 10% of all SIDS deaths showed a particular virus
involved.

Interestingly the correction said, 10% of all infant DEATHS. I would
imagine that only a tiny few would be SIDS deaths, because an
identification of another cause...a virus.....shows that it's not that
catchall that was created to label UNEXPLAINED infant death by some
name, any name at all, just so we had a name.

The logic lapses, and stupidity excess in this ng is well represented
by you...but you are in good company. ...for you see even that article
AFTER correction is not strickly right....as if you KNOW what killed a
child...it is automatically NOT SIDS...but a virus death, or a
smothering death, or any other of the many things that kill infants,
including abuse and neglect.

However, you seem to be having a lot of joy from this, so don't let me
spoil your fun with logic and thought.

You must be slipping off your chair from excessive lubrication.

Kane

[Ron]

Actually kane, I'm more curious about what fern's actual knowledge is
concerning the costs of current information technology is? Another masters
degree in IT? An A+ certification? Maybe she/he/it is a buyer for a major
technology firm? Could he/she/it be a retailer of IT equipment?

IOW, what is the basis for his/her/its statements concerning the technology
side of the different states computer systems, software, networking,
servers, etc.

I don't work in a major IT firm anymore, but still have several friends that
do, and are in the technical side of the house. I also maintain an A+
certification, and have at times taken many courses concerning current IT
trends. I have also seen the systems that several states use, and I would
not consider the 45 million cost of a system to be out of order, but more
along the lines of a bit on the small side. Certainly not cutting edge
technology.

So fern, just what IS your background in IT? What gives you the background
to make this claim?

Ron


"Fern5827" > wrote in message
...
> The state has spent at least 45M on a computer system which cw's do not
find
> easy to navigate.
>
> As I wrote years ago, there's lots of wiggle room in these sweetheart
contracts
> forged between vendors and the state.
>
> And lots of the juice gets masked with confidentiality label.
>
> Regier is now down. Even the Editorial writers and columnists were openly
> speculating that Regier must have had something on Bush to remain in
charge for
> so long when such unethical, not to say illegal conduct was discovered.
>
> And that's just what transpired. Now the news about the deals is
surfacing.

[Kane]

On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 22:46:25 -0500, "Ron" >
wrote:

>Actually kane, I'm more curious about what fern's actual knowledge is
>concerning the costs of current information technology is?

Oh, I'd say it would probably be on the order of It's knowledge of
child welfare and fostering, with a dash of Douggie Dummy thrown
in....get my drift? 0;->


The answer to your question about It's competence in this area is
neatly provided by It, Itself, in the sentence from It's post: "a
computer system which cw's do not find easy to navigate."

I followed the evolution (as you probably have in other settings) of
IT in a state's CPS offices over the period from 1990, just forteen
years ago, to the present...and I can tell you that even though they
spent far more than $45 mill on their system, including training, and
a very competent LAN and WAN administrator staff, there are still
today, masses of them that haven't become what I would call competent
with the screens they use.

The Plant has no idea of the complexity of information that a worker
must feed into database case records, nor why it just can't all be
written out in narrative form and given to the computer to
miraculously sort out and put the bits and pieces where it must go for
later accessing for things such as moving the case to the next state,
or for planning, to data analysis for statistical use.

It hasn't a clue, or a Stamen.

>Another masters
>degree in IT?

The Plant has a master's degree? I never saw It say that, but just
brag that It had taught MSW candidates.....but of course has not
admitted that it was a state mandated Safe Driver course.....rr r r r
r r r r r .....or how to disinfect work surfaces when changing a baby.

> An A+ certification?

F minus more likely.

> Maybe she/he/it is a buyer for a major
>technology firm?

Yep. But was let go when those Pet Rocks ran out.

>Could he/she/it be a retailer of IT equipment?

Was. Pet Rocks.

>IOW, what is the basis for his/her/its statements concerning the
technology
>side of the different states computer systems, software, networking,
>servers, etc.

Sorry. Can't hear you for the noise of what It's blowin' out It's ass.

Or maybe that's Douggie. I get them confused. Must be an age thing.

>I don't work in a major IT firm anymore, but still have several
friends that
>do, and are in the technical side of the house.

How do you keep your screen clean after reading one of It's discourses
on the subject of IT development costs? I use the Certified
Laboratories stuff. Works great.

Recently I decided, if I'm going to read much more of Douggie's
Dodges, and The Plant's Potatoes, that I should buy shares in the
company and get some of that money back I spend on so much of the
stuff.

>I also maintain an A+
>certification, and have at times taken many courses concerning
current IT
>trends. I have also seen the systems that several states use, and I
would
>not consider the 45 million cost of a system to be out of order, but
more
>along the lines of a bit on the small side. Certainly not cutting
edge
>technology.

Probably still running 386's on desktops, one for every 20 employees,
more likely.

>So fern, just what IS your background in IT? What gives you the
background
>to make this claim?

Ron!!!

Now that is just plain mean......R R R R R ....oh, dear, 'scuse me.
eheheheheheheh. You stop that, you hear? 0;->

>Ron

Kane


>
>
>"Fern5827" > wrote in message
...
>> The state has spent at least 45M on a computer system which cw's do
not
>find
>> easy to navigate.
>>
>> As I wrote years ago, there's lots of wiggle room in these
sweetheart
>contracts
>> forged between vendors and the state.
>>
>> And lots of the juice gets masked with confidentiality label.
>>
>> Regier is now down. Even the Editorial writers and columnists were
openly
>> speculating that Regier must have had something on Bush to remain
in
>charge for
>> so long when such unethical, not to say illegal conduct was
discovered.
>>
>> And that's just what transpired. Now the news about the deals is
>surfacing.
>

[Fern5827]

FL has experienced significant problems with its database, even though it
spends millions on it.

And they still couldn't find Rilya or hundreds of missing kids.

Let along with the thousands of employees it has.

Luckily, I have a career. Fostering may be your fifteenth career, Ron.
Apparently you couldn't cut it in any other of your careers.

Police officer, financial manager, etc.

And the writers are going by my information, not yours.

Confirming it.

It won't be too long now.......

[Kane]

On 03 Sep 2004 12:55:30 GMT, (Fern5827) wrote:

>FL has experienced significant problems with its database, even
though it
>spends millions on it.

The spending of millions is not the only criteria for computer
database effectiveness. And I know of NO state system that didn't cost
millions, some more than Florida's.

>And they still couldn't find Rilya or hundreds of missing kids.

Rilya's loss had nothing to do with computer records. The foster
family that had her, two women who lied and said they were relatives,
YOUR favorite placement choice, lost her and have not come up with any
answer but, someone said they were with CPS and took her and never
brought her back," which is patent nonsense.

There is a market for children for illegal adoption in other
countries, as well as one for children as sex slaves. The prices are
high.

>Let along with the thousands of employees it has.

The numbers of "lost children" first proferred by the media began to
whither away rather quickly into just spending time going through the
records to find them. RELATIVES, YOUR FAVORITES, who had taken them to
other states then lost contact, and teens that had run, a population
it is impossible to track and know the location of.

>Luckily, I have a career.

Sure you do, babble this kind of **** and spreading on thickly.

>Fostering may be your fifteenth career, Ron.

Why would that be significant in a negative sense. I resume Ron is old
enough to have done many things, and probably well, given his
contributions here.

And fostering isn't really a "career" in a job sense...it's a calling.
Careers allow people to make a living, hopefully. I daresay if Ron
quite his job he would run out of money rather quickly....unless he
has some other source than THE CHILD'S subsidy.

>Apparently you couldn't cut it in any other of your careers.

What would suggest that to you? Your usual fantasies? Been huffin'
again?

>Police officer, financial manager, etc.

Dear me, I feel sorry for him if he's had only two jobs in his
professional life, but I think you are wrong. He's had more. And I
sense a strong tone of envy and jealousy on your part.

>And the writers are going by my information, not yours.

You have been providing consultation to the writers? Well, maybe you
are somebody after all, instead of a Potted Palm.

>Confirming it.

Confirming what? That millions have been spent. That Rilya went
missing, which isn't a computer problem or solvable by millions or the
lack of them, when it was very likely the criminal actions of the two
women, or those mysterious strangers that showed up at the door and
took Rilya?

>It won't be too long now.......

R R R R...the douggie clone speaks.

And it won't be much longer after that we start to see the horrendous
outcomes of police state child welfare enforcement and the effects of
even more funding cuts....or, when the need for police and more
training comes up, the HUGE expense of this sad plan to make child
welfare a police matter, exclusively.

Kane

[Ron]

"Fern5827" > wrote in message
...
> FL has experienced significant problems with its database, even though it
> spends millions on it.

So does Microsoft, and while they didnt quite invent databases, they
certainly know a hell of a lot more about them than you do, or the
technicials in florida.
>
> And they still couldn't find Rilya or hundreds of missing kids.

Uhhh, fern? One dos not use a database to find someone, one usually goes
out (usually with a flashlight) and looks for them. Besides, the "theory"
that they were lost has already been debunked here many times, as well as in
Florida. Time for a new line.

>
> Let along with the thousands of employees it has.

Florida is missing employees" CALL THE FBI!!!

>
> Luckily, I have a career. Fostering may be your fifteenth career, Ron.
> Apparently you couldn't cut it in any other of your careers.

I am a man of many talents. Moving from one to another is not only well
thought of in many circles, but a norm in today's workforce. The difference
between you and I fern, is that I do them all well, and you do the one you
have poorly at best. That and your failing as the news groups self
appointed spelling / grammar monitor.

>
> Police officer, financial manager, etc.

Oh, lets not forget 13 years in the military (USAF Security Police,
Honorably Discharged), long haul truck driver, pizza delivery driver,
fireman (California Division of Forrestry), and quite a few others. All of
which require skills and education you lack.

>
> And the writers are going by my information, not yours.

So, they are using your usual faulty information? Its a wonder that Florida
has not fallen off the southern side of the country and gone floating
towards Cuba.

> Confirming it.
>
> It won't be too long now.......

First, I'd suggest education. Some at least. Computers are a very
complicated subject, far more than just hitting a button and clicking a
mouse. You can begin your education at www.cnet.com, they have a fairly
good selection of current articles on the subject.

Oh, and I won't hold my breath. Your record at precognition /
prognostication is a bit precarious for me.

Ron

[Kane]

On Mon, 6 Sep 2004 22:10:31 -0500, "Ron" >
wrote:

>
>"Fern5827" > wrote in message
...
>> FL has experienced significant problems with its database, even
though it
>> spends millions on it.
>
>So does Microsoft, and while they didnt quite invent databases, they
>certainly know a hell of a lot more about them than you do, or the
>technicials in florida.
>>
>> And they still couldn't find Rilya or hundreds of missing kids.
>
>Uhhh, fern? One dos not use a database to find someone, one usually
goes
>out (usually with a flashlight) and looks for them. Besides, the
"theory"
>that they were lost has already been debunked here many times, as
well as in
>Florida. Time for a new line.
>
>>
>> Let along with the thousands of employees it has.
>
>Florida is missing employees" CALL THE FBI!!!
>
>>
>> Luckily, I have a career. Fostering may be your fifteenth career,
Ron.
>> Apparently you couldn't cut it in any other of your careers.
>
>I am a man of many talents. Moving from one to another is not only
well
>thought of in many circles, but a norm in today's workforce. The
difference
>between you and I fern, is that I do them all well, and you do the
one you
>have poorly at best. That and your failing as the news groups self
>appointed spelling / grammar monitor.
>
>>
> Police officer, financial manager, etc.
>
>Oh, lets not forget 13 years in the military (USAF Security Police,
>Honorably Discharged),

And that ain't MPs, folks. We all dreaded the possible incursion of
one of these very very spooky spooks. Ex USAF speaking here.

>long haul truck driver, pizza delivery driver,
>fireman (California Division of Forrestry), and quite a few others.
All of
>which require skills and education you lack.

The Plant couldn't get a pizza to the car, let alone to an address.
And it's only connection to forestry would be as One.

>>
>> And the writers are going by my information, not yours.
>
>So, they are using your usual faulty information? Its a wonder that
Florida
>has not fallen off the southern side of the country and gone floating
>towards Cuba.

I find it interesting that statement, the writers are going by my
information, rather interesting in light of the preceding sentence it
would normally be referencing in human conversation or writing;

"
>> Luckily, I have a career. Fostering may be your fifteenth career,
Ron.
>> Apparently you couldn't cut it in any other of your careers.
"

Now tell me, how does that relate to being the source for information
to the state of Florida? If confusion is The Plants job, I admit, from
time to time It does a job on me....R R R R R.....

>
>> Confirming it.
>>
>> It won't be too long now.......
>
>First, I'd suggest education. Some at least. Computers are a very
>complicated subject, far more than just hitting a button and clicking
a
>mouse. You can begin your education at www.cnet.com, they have a
fairly
>good selection of current articles on the subject.

No no, you forgot to tell it to double click or copy and past to the
universal resource locator field in It's bro....oh ****, why do I
bother. It's so dumb it thinks an URL is that guy from the TV ads and
movies Ernest kept talking to off camera.

>Oh, and I won't hold my breath. Your record at precognition /
>prognostication is a bit precarious for me.

Well now, Ron. I'm sorry to hear what an abject failure you have been.
So far you've not learned how to sit on your ass all day on sabbatical
and get someone else to support you. tsk.

No talent loser!! 0;->

By the way, I suppose our ages are too far apart, but one of you guys,
and no, I won't use the actual acronym either <shudder> tried to
compromise my TS clerk checkout desk, among other things in our
intelligence estimates offices at Hickam.

He was the newly assigned sargent in the office, but oddly seemed to
have no real duties and kind of came and went very freely. All the
tiem.

Leaned on my desk one day while engaging me in all too energetic a
conversation and stuck his hand to a piece marked TS and started to
slide it off the desk.

Outranked me but I put a .45 up his nose for emphasis and asked to
have that document return to is "at rest" position on my desktop.
Seems he thought that was a good idea.

Wish I could remember his name, not that that would have mattered.
Likely he wasn't an E-4 either.

He was a gas. Even left his orders on his desk with the background
info on it, educated at The Lenin Instituted of Vladivostok..etc
Matriculated highschool at the Karl Marks Institute of Moscow.

Had me howling but the other guys in the office were ****ing their
pants not getting the joke he was pulling just before he mysteriously
he left us.

I knew he was a plant when I reported him to my colonel and the
colonel shined me on and left him in the office.

I guess by then he had managed to penetrate other's security quite
thoroughly. One guy wound up at the psych ward at Trippler Army
Hospital up on the hill.

Never got through mine though and earned me a little letter of
commendation and that solidified on discharge, honorably, that
sometimes laughable Howdy Duty Button. I'd seen habituals drunk get
them, but I was proud of mine for the facts involved.

You guys were a gas. You don't have to tell me if you did that kind of
work, but...R R R ...wouldn't surprise me none.

Odd how you are willing to work, and admit it, while the Plant won't
even share what "work" It does, or what field that impressive master's
degree is in or who awarded it to It?

Are you taking any lessons in work habits improvement from the couch
croucher. He seems to have it whipped.

Takes all kinds, I guess.

>
>Ron
>

Of we go, into the wild blue yonder....etc.

Kane

[Fern5827]

Australia implemented a database with MICROSOFT for 9M.

Let's face it....CPS is seriously flawed and lots of potential for unauthorized
scamming exists.

And we are exposing their serious deficiencies, one person at a time.

[Ron]

"Fern5827" > wrote in message
...
> Australia implemented a database with MICROSOFT for 9M.

That's pretty cheap, but its also just a database. 9 million would also
cover the cost of supplemental software upgrades and system support by
Microsoft technicians. For that price they wouldn't even get onsite support,
but telephone and internet based only. That makes no mention of the
mainframe systems to hold the data, the networks needed to access it, the
terminals the users use, or the software needed to interpret the data from
the database at the terminals. Not to mention the cost of all the
technicians needed to install and maintain the afore mentioned systems.

There's a lot more to these systems than you think fern, obviously.

>
> Let's face it....CPS is seriously flawed and lots of potential for
unauthorized
> scamming exists.
>
> And we are exposing their serious deficiencies, one person at a time.

While I and a few others take the time to expose your ignorance of the
subjects involved and the untruths you take such little care in spouting.
Seems we have been doing this for quite some time now, and you still think
you know what you are talking about. Amazing.

Ron

[Sherman]

"Ron" > wrote in message
news:YNj%c.6663$OZ6.5427@okepread06...
>
> "Fern5827" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Australia implemented a database with MICROSOFT for 9M.
>
> That's pretty cheap, but its also just a database. 9 million would also
> cover the cost of supplemental software upgrades and system support by
> Microsoft technicians. For that price they wouldn't even get onsite
support,
> but telephone and internet based only. That makes no mention of the
> mainframe systems to hold the data, the networks needed to access it, the
> terminals the users use, or the software needed to interpret the data from
> the database at the terminals. Not to mention the cost of all the
> technicians needed to install and maintain the afore mentioned systems.
>
> There's a lot more to these systems than you think fern, obviously.

Think? fern? Hmmm, that would be an interesting attempt for some old putz
sitting in Jersey, figuring out how to recycle it's used water to save money
during it's retirement...

Sherman.

> > Let's face it....CPS is seriously flawed and lots of potential for
> unauthorized
> > scamming exists.
> >
> > And we are exposing their serious deficiencies, one person at a time.
>
> While I and a few others take the time to expose your ignorance of the
> subjects involved and the untruths you take such little care in spouting.
> Seems we have been doing this for quite some time now, and you still think
> you know what you are talking about. Amazing.
>
> Ron
>
>