Raising children - Being too soft to them? [Archive]

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tired_mom

March 1st 05, 12:23 AM

My question is -
If I am too soft to my child, will he became a weak person when he
grows up.

I think I am a very soft/sensitive person. DH is also kind of same way.
DS is 2 years old. He is happy fun loving kid but very sensitive. He
feels sad and starts to cry even if we change the tone in our voice.

In the daycare too, he is very touchy and needs personal attention when
there is a change (like a new place or new teacher) . He just needs
more attention and prefers holding/hugging more often. He is also
afraid of elder kids, he does not play with is favorite toy if a big
kid is around.

This weekend, we went over to friends house who have son same age as my
son. That kid something bad, so the mother was scolding him. My son
heard that (and maybe thought they are scolding him) and started crying
a lot.
The other kid did not care a bit, even though he knew he was being
scolded. The next moment, he was into some other activities and moving
on. I have noticed that generally they are less concerned when their
son is hurt etc when compared to how we would react for the same
incident. (There was one incident in the past when their child fell
down and was bleeding from his nose. his mom just gave him some tissue
and asked HIM to wipe it off. whereas if it was me, I would have been
panicking and behaving soo different)

I told the whole incident to my father, he says we are raising DS too
soft and weak and that is not good for him. Children should be tough
and strong. (He obviously did not bring his daugther that way if it is
indeed true) He reminds me of the proverb - That which bloomed in the
fire will not fade in the heat of daylight.
Thank you for your thoughts.

Ericka Kammerer

March 1st 05, 01:00 AM

Nan

March 1st 05, 01:11 AM

On 28 Feb 2005 16:23:27 -0800, "tired_mom" >
scribbled:

>I told the whole incident to my father, he says we are raising DS too
>soft and weak and that is not good for him. Children should be tough
>and strong. (He obviously did not bring his daugther that way if it is
>indeed true) He reminds me of the proverb - That which bloomed in the
>fire will not fade in the heat of daylight.
>Thank you for your thoughts.

Pfft. Your father has outdated ideas.
I believe kids are more hard-wired with their emotions. IOW, they're
born sensitive. Sure, you can "toughen them up", but at what cost?
I'd much rather have a sensitive child than a "tough" one.

Fwiw, I find an adult that is sensitive and not afraid to be emotional
"stronger" than one who hides behind a tough facade.

Nan

Penny Gaines

March 1st 05, 01:54 PM

tired_mom wrote:

> My question is -
> If I am too soft to my child, will he became a weak person when he
> grows up.

"You don't make someone strong by stamping on them, you just make dents
in their soul". Probably from a Diana Wynne Jones book, but I can't
remember for certain.

[snip]
> In the daycare too, he is very touchy and needs personal attention when
> there is a change (like a new place or new teacher) . He just needs
> more attention and prefers holding/hugging more often. He is also
> afraid of elder kids, he does not play with is favorite toy if a big
> kid is around.

Some children are like this. Its not a problem in the child, you just
have to be sensitive to them, and in their own time they will get more
daring. It might take some years, but that's the way some kids are.

> This weekend, we went over to friends house who have son same age as my
> son. That kid something bad, so the mother was scolding him. My son
> heard that (and maybe thought they are scolding him) and started crying
> a lot.
> The other kid did not care a bit, even though he knew he was being
> scolded.

Not a very effective method for the other child.

> The next moment, he was into some other activities and moving
> on. I have noticed that generally they are less concerned when their
> son is hurt etc when compared to how we would react for the same
> incident. (There was one incident in the past when their child fell
> down and was bleeding from his nose. his mom just gave him some tissue
> and asked HIM to wipe it off. whereas if it was me, I would have been
> panicking and behaving soo different)

I don't think their method is bad: certainly if my child was bleeding
lots I'd be panicing, but trying not to show it to the kid. If it was
a moderate bleed, or the child had lots of nosebleeds, just handing a
tissue seems a perfectly sensible way of dealing with it. Especially
if this isn't your first child.

> I told the whole incident to my father, he says we are raising DS too
> soft and weak and that is not good for him. Children should be tough
> and strong. (He obviously did not bring his daugther that way if it is
> indeed true) He reminds me of the proverb - That which bloomed in the
> fire will not fade in the heat of daylight.
> Thank you for your thoughts.

It's a balancing act. Some children need more molly-coddling then others,
and will gradually learn to be tougher. Other children of the same age
would find it too restrictive, and try and push their parents away. Some
children don't need it, but are quite happy to accept it. You just have
to work out where your child is on the scale and respond accordingly.

--
Penny Gaines
UK mum to three

Melania

March 1st 05, 05:11 PM

tired_mom wrote:
> My question is -
> If I am too soft to my child, will he became a weak person when he
> grows up.
>
> I think I am a very soft/sensitive person. DH is also kind of same
way.
> DS is 2 years old. He is happy fun loving kid but very sensitive. He
> feels sad and starts to cry even if we change the tone in our voice.

Sounds to me as though your son is just sensitive like you and your dh
- seems perfectly natural to me, and not something to try and change.

Although we certainly mold and influence our children's characters, I
think the basic elements of personality and coping methods are there
from birth. For instance, ds tends to be fairly social but is not
nearly as outgoing as some other kids his age, tends not to be an
aggressor, and would rather hang back watching until he gets the lay of
the land and then follow a leader (often an older boy or girl) than
dive into a social situation and be a leader. I don't think we've
taught him this - it's a typical personality trait among many in our
extended family (although not in me . . .)

I was a "cries when mom changes her tone" kid, but extremely
extroverted and assertive generally (bossing other toddlers - and my
parents - around). I grew out of it and didn't turn out soft! Mom and
dad knew how I responded to these things, and discipline was a gentle,
easy affair in our house. Until my unflappable brother turned up and
would laugh at my parents or outright ignore them, regardless of how
they tried to discipline him. They ended up having to to be very
different in their approach with him. He has grown up to be a very
rational, gentle adult.

>
> In the daycare too, he is very touchy and needs personal attention
when
> there is a change (like a new place or new teacher) . He just needs
> more attention and prefers holding/hugging more often. He is also
> afraid of elder kids, he does not play with is favorite toy if a big
> kid is around.

This too is very natural with some kids. Frankly, I would far rather
have a boy who needed hugs and touching frequently, than a pint-sized
steamroller . . .
>
> This weekend, we went over to friends house who have son same age as
my
> son. That kid something bad, so the mother was scolding him. My son
> heard that (and maybe thought they are scolding him) and started
crying
> a lot.
> The other kid did not care a bit, even though he knew he was being
> scolded.

I'll echo others here and say that doesn't sound like the parent's
technique is very effective in this instance, then.

The next moment, he was into some other activities and moving
> on. I have noticed that generally they are less concerned when their
> son is hurt etc when compared to how we would react for the same
> incident. (There was one incident in the past when their child fell
> down and was bleeding from his nose. his mom just gave him some
tissue
> and asked HIM to wipe it off. whereas if it was me, I would have been
> panicking and behaving soo different)

I'm an "oh, you're fine" parent - if my son isn't screaming
hysterically, that is. If he catches a good thump (running into a wall
or something) and is crying hard, he gets snuggles and comforting
instantly. OTOH, he's a generally tough kid who seems to have a high
pain threshold - I've found scabs or weeping scrapes on him and had no
idea where they came from, since he didn't react when the injury
happened. Once he came to me, perfectly calm, and showed me his hand
bleeding (he'd caught it on a piece of wire under my aunt's fridge,
that was holding part of the fridge together). I had to control my own
natural aversion to blood and continue to act like it was no big deal,
since it obviously wasn't to him.

Ds often doesn't *want* comforting, even if he's crying and hurting.
He'll fall off a play structure, burst into tears, and shove me away
when I try to comfort him - racing back to get back on that play
structure, even through his tears.
>
> I told the whole incident to my father, he says we are raising DS too
> soft and weak and that is not good for him. Children should be tough
> and strong.

I have seen parents who coddle and coddle a child, and they end up
spoiled and whiny. But that's not being sensitive to the child's
emotional needs - that's replying to every slightest hurt feeling (or
pride) with an avalanche of "here, what can we do to make everything
all right? What do you want? Oh, you poor thing!!" and usually it's
clear that the child has realized s/he can play the parents and is
doing so.

Children grow tough and strong when they feel secure and supported,
IMO. It gives them self-confidence. Overprotection can sometimes erode
that confidence, because the message the child gets is "we don't think
you're capable of taking care of yourself," but that does NOT sound
like what you're doing.

Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
and #2 (edd May 21, 2005)

Sue

March 1st 05, 06:26 PM

"Melania" > wrote in message
>Mom and dad knew how I responded to these things, and discipline was a
gentle,
> easy affair in our house. Until my unflappable brother turned up and
> would laugh at my parents or outright ignore them, regardless of how
> they tried to discipline him. They ended up having to to be very
> different in their approach with him. He has grown up to be a very
> rational, gentle adult.

What kinds of disipline measures did your parents do with your brother. This
sounds like my third child and we are struggling.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Melania

March 1st 05, 10:57 PM

Sue wrote:
> "Melania" > wrote in message
> >Mom and dad knew how I responded to these things, and discipline
was a
> gentle,
> > easy affair in our house. Until my unflappable brother turned up
and
> > would laugh at my parents or outright ignore them, regardless of
how
> > they tried to discipline him. They ended up having to to be very
> > different in their approach with him. He has grown up to be a very
> > rational, gentle adult.
>
> What kinds of disipline measures did your parents do with your
brother. This
> sounds like my third child and we are struggling.
> --
> Sue (mom to three girls)

Hi Sue! Okay, just got off the phone with my mom. I asked if I was
remembering things correctly and she said yes. Basically, she said that
generally my brother was not an ill-behaved child, so outright
discipline was not usually a big issue - but when it was it really was.
DB was incredibly stubborn, and had some PPD issues (they thought for a
while that he was autistic). He had/has an incredible ability to tune
people out, and there was nothing he cared about enough (toys, tv,
treats, favorite activities, you name it) that it would matter if it
was taken away. Mom says he could outlast her on the stubborn front,
often going for weeks if necessary, so locking wills didn't work. He
had a high pain threshold and no sense of humiliation at being spanked
- the first and only time she spanked him he thought it was a game,
laughed, turned, and socked her in the face - so spanking didn't work
with him (we got the very rare spanking when we were too young to
reason with and no other methods were working - not an approach I have
any problems with, although since other methods worked, we almost never
got spanked).

What *did* work? Sitting him down, getting his attention, and
explaining to him why his behaviour was inappropriate, and talking with
him about why he was in trouble. Asking him what he would do if he was
the dad and his child behaved this way. Asking him how he could change
his behaviour. Giving him choices and options WRT solving the issue at
hand. If communication wasn't working, which certainly happened,
separating him (in his room) and letting him either rage about it for a
while or simply play for a while, and then bringing him out and asking
him why he had been sent to his room, and then starting the
conversation from there.

She did this with all of us. Her favorite tactic, and one which was
very effective from a surprisingly early age, was to explain how she
felt, the situation she was put in, and ask the child what they would
do in that situation themselves. It made us consider the effects of our
actions.

Mom says that in a conflict situation, she would take a child as young
as 3 or 4 and tell them, "I am speaking to you like an adult right now"
(she always showed respect when speaking to us) and put the onus (sp?)
on the child to step up and take responsibility. This also worked
really well with us.

Of course, she also added that anything she says should be taken with a
huge grain of salt, since she doesn't know you or your kids ;) and
therefore can't assess the situation. Mind you, that's her attitude WRT
anyone's parenting, even people she knows well. She's a real "won't
pass judgement till I've walked a mile in their shoes" kind of person.

Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
and #2 (edd May 21, 2005)

Sue

March 2nd 05, 05:20 PM

"Melania" > wrote in message
> Hi Sue! Okay, just got off the phone with my mom. I asked if I was
> remembering things correctly and she said yes. Basically, she said that
> generally my brother was not an ill-behaved child, so outright
> discipline was not usually a big issue - but when it was it really was.
> DB was incredibly stubborn, and had some PPD issues (they thought for a
> while that he was autistic). He had/has an incredible ability to tune
> people out, and there was nothing he cared about enough (toys, tv,
> treats, favorite activities, you name it) that it would matter if it
> was taken away. Mom says he could outlast her on the stubborn front,
> often going for weeks if necessary, so locking wills didn't work. He
> had a high pain threshold and no sense of humiliation at being spanked
> - the first and only time she spanked him he thought it was a game,
> laughed, turned, and socked her in the face - so spanking didn't work
> with him (we got the very rare spanking when we were too young to
> reason with and no other methods were working - not an approach I have
> any problems with, although since other methods worked, we almost never
> got spanked).
>
> What *did* work? Sitting him down, getting his attention, and
> explaining to him why his behaviour was inappropriate, and talking with
> him about why he was in trouble. Asking him what he would do if he was
> the dad and his child behaved this way. Asking him how he could change
> his behaviour. Giving him choices and options WRT solving the issue at
> hand. If communication wasn't working, which certainly happened,
> separating him (in his room) and letting him either rage about it for a
> while or simply play for a while, and then bringing him out and asking
> him why he had been sent to his room, and then starting the
> conversation from there.
>
> She did this with all of us. Her favorite tactic, and one which was
> very effective from a surprisingly early age, was to explain how she
> felt, the situation she was put in, and ask the child what they would
> do in that situation themselves. It made us consider the effects of our
> actions.
>
> Mom says that in a conflict situation, she would take a child as young
> as 3 or 4 and tell them, "I am speaking to you like an adult right now"
> (she always showed respect when speaking to us) and put the onus (sp?)
> on the child to step up and take responsibility. This also worked
> really well with us.
>
> Of course, she also added that anything she says should be taken with a
> huge grain of salt, since she doesn't know you or your kids ;) and
> therefore can't assess the situation. Mind you, that's her attitude WRT
> anyone's parenting, even people she knows well. She's a real "won't
> pass judgement till I've walked a mile in their shoes" kind of person.

Thank you so much Melania. This information is great. Your brother sounds
exactly like my third child. Even with the issues related to the autistic
behavior. She was tested last year for this, but it did come out negative. I
will save this post to see if any of your mom's methods have any positive
change in her. Again thank you very much. I am pretty much at my wit's end
with her.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Melania

March 2nd 05, 05:46 PM

Sue wrote:
> "Melania" > wrote in message
> > Hi Sue! Okay, just got off the phone with my mom. I asked if I was
> > remembering things correctly and she said yes. Basically, she said
that
> > generally my brother was not an ill-behaved child, so outright
> > discipline was not usually a big issue - but when it was it really
was.
> > DB was incredibly stubborn, and had some PPD issues (they thought
for a
> > while that he was autistic). He had/has an incredible ability to
tune
> > people out, and there was nothing he cared about enough (toys, tv,
> > treats, favorite activities, you name it) that it would matter if
it
> > was taken away. Mom says he could outlast her on the stubborn
front,
> > often going for weeks if necessary, so locking wills didn't work.
He
> > had a high pain threshold and no sense of humiliation at being
spanked
> > - the first and only time she spanked him he thought it was a game,
> > laughed, turned, and socked her in the face - so spanking didn't
work
> > with him (we got the very rare spanking when we were too young to
> > reason with and no other methods were working - not an approach I
have
> > any problems with, although since other methods worked, we almost
never
> > got spanked).
> >
> > What *did* work? Sitting him down, getting his attention, and
> > explaining to him why his behaviour was inappropriate, and talking
with
> > him about why he was in trouble. Asking him what he would do if he
was
> > the dad and his child behaved this way. Asking him how he could
change
> > his behaviour. Giving him choices and options WRT solving the issue
at
> > hand. If communication wasn't working, which certainly happened,
> > separating him (in his room) and letting him either rage about it
for a
> > while or simply play for a while, and then bringing him out and
asking
> > him why he had been sent to his room, and then starting the
> > conversation from there.
> >
> > She did this with all of us. Her favorite tactic, and one which was
> > very effective from a surprisingly early age, was to explain how
she
> > felt, the situation she was put in, and ask the child what they
would
> > do in that situation themselves. It made us consider the effects of
our
> > actions.
> >
> > Mom says that in a conflict situation, she would take a child as
young
> > as 3 or 4 and tell them, "I am speaking to you like an adult right
now"
> > (she always showed respect when speaking to us) and put the onus
(sp?)
> > on the child to step up and take responsibility. This also worked
> > really well with us.
> >
> > Of course, she also added that anything she says should be taken
with a
> > huge grain of salt, since she doesn't know you or your kids ;) and
> > therefore can't assess the situation. Mind you, that's her attitude
WRT
> > anyone's parenting, even people she knows well. She's a real "won't
> > pass judgement till I've walked a mile in their shoes" kind of
person.
>
> Thank you so much Melania. This information is great. Your brother
sounds
> exactly like my third child. Even with the issues related to the
autistic
> behavior. She was tested last year for this, but it did come out
negative. I
> will save this post to see if any of your mom's methods have any
positive
> change in her. Again thank you very much. I am pretty much at my
wit's end
> with her.
> --
> Sue (mom to three girls)

How old is your youngest, Sue? I just wanted to add that things were
worst with my brother between ages 3 or 4 and 10 or 11 (okay, that's a
long stretch!!), but that he got quite a lot better after puberty (more
extroverted, more social, better at handling problems/conflict). I
think it helped that he and I often moved in the same circles of
friends, and I always considered him more like a twin brother than a
younger one (even though he's 2 years younger, intellectually he was
quite precocious).

A couple other things that worked well for him, not as discipline but
just for socialization and channelling his abilities: he loved music
from an early age and started Suzuki violin at age 3 (I think), at his
request (my grandfather was a violinist and he wanted to play, too).
Went on to do performance violin in university and a Master's of
Musicology. He also has a highly logical, analytical mind, and my mom
and dad did a lot of projects at home with him - and eventually got him
into a science club (which I joined too, for moral support . . . )

I'm glad my mom's story seems applicable - I think he was a challenging
kid, but in so many ways a really wonderful one, too. Good luck!

Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
and #2 (edd May 21, 2005)

Sue

March 2nd 05, 09:07 PM

"Melania" > wrote in message
> How old is your youngest, Sue? I just wanted to add that things were
> worst with my brother between ages 3 or 4 and 10 or 11 (okay, that's a
> long stretch!!), but that he got quite a lot better after puberty (more
> extroverted, more social, better at handling problems/conflict). I
> think it helped that he and I often moved in the same circles of
> friends, and I always considered him more like a twin brother than a
> younger one (even though he's 2 years younger, intellectually he was
> quite precocious).
>
> A couple other things that worked well for him, not as discipline but
> just for socialization and channelling his abilities: he loved music
> from an early age and started Suzuki violin at age 3 (I think), at his
> request (my grandfather was a violinist and he wanted to play, too).
> Went on to do performance violin in university and a Master's of
> Musicology. He also has a highly logical, analytical mind, and my mom
> and dad did a lot of projects at home with him - and eventually got him
> into a science club (which I joined too, for moral support . . . )
>
> I'm glad my mom's story seems applicable - I think he was a challenging
> kid, but in so many ways a really wonderful one, too. Good luck!
>

Wow, I just cannot get over the similarities. Kara is 8 yrs old. She loves
the piano and music also. I have promised piano lessons (her choice) when we
move. I suspect that Kara is gifted in many ways, but is not being
challenged enough and once again, when we move, I plan to persue some more
activities for her to help her along with the social aspect of her problems.
I wish I could call your mom and talk with her. She probably could give me
lots of help. :o) The other problem with face with her is that her sisters
don't find her behavior amusing and can be really mean to her. Her middle
sister is only 19 months older than she is, but they just can't seem to get
along very well, at least not right now. Hopefully that will change.
--
Sue (mom to three girls)

Melania

March 3rd 05, 03:57 AM

Sue wrote:
> "Melania" > wrote in message
> > How old is your youngest, Sue? I just wanted to add that things
were
> > worst with my brother between ages 3 or 4 and 10 or 11 (okay,
that's a
> > long stretch!!), but that he got quite a lot better after puberty
(more
> > extroverted, more social, better at handling problems/conflict). I
> > think it helped that he and I often moved in the same circles of
> > friends, and I always considered him more like a twin brother than
a
> > younger one (even though he's 2 years younger, intellectually he
was
> > quite precocious).
> >
> > A couple other things that worked well for him, not as discipline
but
> > just for socialization and channelling his abilities: he loved
music
> > from an early age and started Suzuki violin at age 3 (I think), at
his
> > request (my grandfather was a violinist and he wanted to play,
too).
> > Went on to do performance violin in university and a Master's of
> > Musicology. He also has a highly logical, analytical mind, and my
mom
> > and dad did a lot of projects at home with him - and eventually got
him
> > into a science club (which I joined too, for moral support . . . )
> >
> > I'm glad my mom's story seems applicable - I think he was a
challenging
> > kid, but in so many ways a really wonderful one, too. Good luck!
> >
>
> Wow, I just cannot get over the similarities. Kara is 8 yrs old. She
loves
> the piano and music also. I have promised piano lessons (her choice)
when we
> move. I suspect that Kara is gifted in many ways, but is not being
> challenged enough and once again, when we move, I plan to persue some
more
> activities for her to help her along with the social aspect of her
problems.
> I wish I could call your mom and talk with her. She probably could
give me
> lots of help. :o)

That would be nice, hey? It was really funny, explaining why I was
asking: "well, there's this woman I know, well, sort of know, we both
frequent this newsgroup on the internet, and I was talking about my
brother, well, I'd better go back and explain . . . " she was bemused
but very willing to offer her experience!

The other problem with face with her is that her sisters
> don't find her behavior amusing and can be really mean to her. Her
middle
> sister is only 19 months older than she is, but they just can't seem
to get
> along very well, at least not right now. Hopefully that will change.

I hope it will change as they get older - I was often embarrassed by my
brother, but there's something so different about being the only girl,
and the oldest (IME) that gives one the luxury of being magnanamous
with younger siblings. My role was secure, so there wasn't much sibling
rivalry to get in the way. It probably depends on the older daughter's
disposition as much as anything, especially as she moves into her teens
(still a few years away, right?), but I know absolutely nothing about
a)having sisters, b)parenting older kids, so I'm the wrong person for
any advice/perspective here!

Oh, and I can't say enough good things about the music lessons, if your
daughter is keen. It's very good for self-discipline, and channels so
much of the unresolved frustration kids can bring home from school -
speaking here from 13 years of piano during school, myself. Choir and
band are also great opportunities to explore musical interest, and you
stand at least a chance of her making friends who share her love of
music, and who may be on the same trajectory socially (speaking from my
brother's experience).

Melania
Mom to Joffre (Jan 11, 2003)
and #2 (edd May 21, 2005)