Be aware of in home reigstered Child Daycares!,(Childcare aware)

[Lilaeyes]

Please give your own opinion. I feel that any
parent that
is looking for childcare should choose a license childcare center,
because
those center's have experience in children. With these centers with a
childhood degree in college?.. I feel comfortable placing my children
in a
center instead. A in home daycare, you do not even need a high school
diploma.
I should know because I was once a in home registered daycare provider
& I
dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children &
know
how to raise children. So to say you need child care classes to become
a
registered daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record for
the
department of children and family is clean. But to say, opening up a
family
daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So many in home daycares are ones
that want
to easily make money, (do not really want to work for a boss and go by
their
rules), or want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion,
knowing
so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due to
violating
the regulations and rules with the department of family and child care
unit.
"Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in home
daycares
running, It is so easy & free to get registered & you do not even have
to
graduate from high school.And to say, you need to take classes in
knowing how
to take care of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my
husband
if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
with
the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you need
to even
take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats to me, not fair
to
children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,(being watched
by a
provider that has no high school diploma or a college dregree in
childhood
development)?.. Think about why more & more in home daycares are
getting
closed down by the state, but less do not by a license center that
carries a
childhood delevopment diploma in college. I believe registered daycares
that
are still running should take more courses & take classes by the child
family
daycare unit that gives providers certificate's. And when a new in home

daycares opens, they should have proof of a high school diploma and
take part
in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones that
can
not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for your college
in
childcare development..

[Jeff]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Please give your own opinion. I feel that any
> parent that
> is looking for childcare should choose a license childcare center,
> because
> those center's have experience in children.

I disagree. Girls in middle school give birth to kids every day. They don't
have an 8th grade diploma, let alone a high school diploma.

A lot of parents take their kids to grandma for daycare, yet grandma doesn't
have a degree.

Parents should choose a day care because the day care gives good quality,
loving care to kids. A high-school degree is not needed.

However, day care centers that are not in home often are impersonal with
lots of staff turnover.

I say go with the quality of care, not the degree.

jeff

> With these centers with a
> childhood degree in college?.. I feel comfortable placing my children
> in a
> center instead. A in home daycare, you do not even need a high school
> diploma.
> I should know because I was once a in home registered daycare provider
> & I
> dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children &
> know
> how to raise children. So to say you need child care classes to become
> a
> registered daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
> certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record for
> the
> department of children and family is clean. But to say, opening up a
> family
> daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So many in home daycares are ones
> that want
> to easily make money, (do not really want to work for a boss and go by
> their
> rules), or want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion,
> knowing
> so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due to
> violating
> the regulations and rules with the department of family and child care
> unit.
> "Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in home
> daycares
> running, It is so easy & free to get registered & you do not even have
> to
> graduate from high school.And to say, you need to take classes in
> knowing how
> to take care of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my
> husband
> if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
> with
> the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you need
> to even
> take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats to me, not fair
> to
> children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,(being watched
> by a
> provider that has no high school diploma or a college dregree in
> childhood
> development)?.. Think about why more & more in home daycares are
> getting
> closed down by the state, but less do not by a license center that
> carries a
> childhood delevopment diploma in college. I believe registered daycares
> that
> are still running should take more courses & take classes by the child
> family
> daycare unit that gives providers certificate's. And when a new in home
>
> daycares opens, they should have proof of a high school diploma and
> take part
> in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones that
> can
> not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for your college
> in
> childcare development..
>

[Lilaeyes]

Jeff wrote:
> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Please give your own opinion. I feel that any
> > parent that
> > is looking for childcare should choose a license childcare center,
> > because
> > those center's have experience in children.
>
> I disagree. Girls in middle school give birth to kids every day. They don't
> have an 8th grade diploma, let alone a high school diploma.
>
> A lot of parents take their kids to grandma for daycare, yet grandma doesn't
> have a degree.
>
> Parents should choose a day care because the day care gives good quality,
> loving care to kids. A high-school degree is not needed.
>
> However, day care centers that are not in home often are impersonal with
> lots of staff turnover.
>
> I say go with the quality of care, not the degree.
>
> jeff
>
> > With these centers with a
> > childhood degree in college?.. I feel comfortable placing my children
> > in a
> > center instead. A in home daycare, you do not even need a high school
> > diploma.
> > I should know because I was once a in home registered daycare provider
> > & I
> > dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children &
> > know
> > how to raise children. So to say you need child care classes to become
> > a
> > registered daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
> > certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record for
> > the
> > department of children and family is clean. But to say, opening up a
> > family
> > daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So many in home daycares are ones
> > that want
> > to easily make money, (do not really want to work for a boss and go by
> > their
> > rules), or want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion,
> > knowing
> > so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due to
> > violating
> > the regulations and rules with the department of family and child care
> > unit.
> > "Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in home
> > daycares
> > running, It is so easy & free to get registered & you do not even have
> > to
> > graduate from high school.And to say, you need to take classes in
> > knowing how
> > to take care of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my
> > husband
> > if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
> > with
> > the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you need
> > to even
> > take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats to me, not fair
> > to
> > children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,(being watched
> > by a
> > provider that has no high school diploma or a college dregree in
> > childhood
> > development)?.. Think about why more & more in home daycares are
> > getting
> > closed down by the state, but less do not by a license center that
> > carries a
> > childhood delevopment diploma in college. I believe registered daycares
> > that
> > are still running should take more courses & take classes by the child
> > family
> > daycare unit that gives providers certificate's. And when a new in home
> >
> > daycares opens, they should have proof of a high school diploma and
> > take part
> > in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones that
> > can
> > not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for your college
> > in
> > childcare development..
> >

[Lilaeyes]

Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the quality
of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care in
education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those centers
have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development. I want my child to
have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high school
diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that &
in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare center's,
just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home daycare.
Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!
>
> I say go with the quality of care, not the degree.
>
> jeff
>
> > With these centers with a
> > childhood degree in college?.. I feel comfortable placing my children
> > in a
> > center instead. A in home daycare, you do not even need a high school
> > diploma.
> > I should know because I was once a in home registered daycare provider
> > & I
> > dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children &
> > know
> > how to raise children. So to say you need child care classes to become
> > a
> > registered daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
> > certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record for
> > the
> > department of children and family is clean. But to say, opening up a
> > family
> > daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So many in home daycares are ones
> > that want
> > to easily make money, (do not really want to work for a boss and go by
> > their
> > rules), or want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion,
> > knowing
> > so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due to
> > violating
> > the regulations and rules with the department of family and child care
> > unit.
> > "Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in home
> > daycares
> > running, It is so easy & free to get registered & you do not even have
> > to
> > graduate from high school.And to say, you need to take classes in
> > knowing how
> > to take care of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my
> > husband
> > if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
> > with
> > the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you need
> > to even
> > take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats to me, not fair
> > to
> > children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,(being watched
> > by a
> > provider that has no high school diploma or a college dregree in
> > childhood
> > development)?.. Think about why more & more in home daycares are
> > getting
> > closed down by the state, but less do not by a license center that
> > carries a
> > childhood delevopment diploma in college. I believe registered daycares
> > that
> > are still running should take more courses & take classes by the child
> > family
> > daycare unit that gives providers certificate's. And when a new in home
> >
> > daycares opens, they should have proof of a high school diploma and
> > take part
> > in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones that
> > can
> > not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for your college
> > in
> > childcare development..
> >

[Lilaeyes]

Jeff wrote:
> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Please give your own opinion. I feel that any
> > parent that
> > is looking for childcare should choose a license childcare center,
> > because
> > those center's have experience in children.

I agree & taking childhood courses in childcare, college graduates have
more underatanding in children's behavior
>
> I disagree. Girls in middle school give birth to kids every day. They don't
> have an 8th grade diploma, let alone a high school diploma.

And shouldn't run a home daycare for reasons why more and more in home
dacares gets their license revoked
>
> A lot of parents take their kids to grandma for daycare, yet grandma doesn't
> have a degree.

I agree that they're grandma's that do not have a degree but i'm
talking about in home daycares that should take part in college courses
for understanding children. That of course would keep daycares open not
getting closed. Like for instance, those couples that were jailed for
porno, (running a in home daycare and taking porn photo's of their
daycare children).That happened in Florida??.. It was on the news???
>
> Parents should choose a day care because the day care gives good quality,
> loving care to kids. A high-school degree is not needed.


And that of course causes alot of field investagators to monitor more &
more home daycares, let alone not a much as license centers..
>
> However, day care centers that are not in home often are impersonal with
> lots of staff turnover.

I rather choice a good quality child care center where their is a B.A.
Degree in understanding children. College graduate that went ALL THE
Way into college. Not a drop out fool that was once on welfare, &
rushes for a lousy registration to open up a in home daycare for the
love of getting rich!!... I rather go broke & pay OUT the good cost of
a professional, quality center that has experience in children & a GOOD
B.A Degree in children. I know definately my children are safe!!

However Daycare centers are professional in the fields. Have good
quality & a B.A. Degree in Child Care..
>
> I say go with the quality of care, not the degree.

I agree with the quality of childcare, when in the fields of graduating
with a B.A degree in child care,( or becoming a director for
childcare).. But in homes need more courses & should take part in some
college, in becoming more professional,not dropping out of high
school,(being on welfare), & opening a private in home daycare ,(not
just for the children they do not want to care for much), but for the
money they want.It is a easy way of making good money, when good
workers go all they way to college for the love for children not much
the money!!.. And to say in home daycares are monitored!?.. Of course,
these high school drop outs monitored their babysitting job for field
investigators, (they do know field invesigators do show up
unexpectedly, to check and see if they're running a good quality
daycare?).. I am not saying that when a provider has no degree, they
are not good quality daycare. But everyday,more & more in home daycares
are getting close, due to poor quality care. So in another words, the
state should make it more difficult for in home daycares to get their
license. So much child abuse & neglect happens alot more in private
home daycares.. They need to be educated more & take part in childhood
in college..
>
> jeff
>
> > With these centers with a
> > childhood degree in college?.. I feel comfortable placing my children
> > in a
> > center instead. A in home daycare, you do not even need a high school
> > diploma.
> > I should know because I was once a in home registered daycare provider
> > & I
> > dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children &
> > know
> > how to raise children. So to say you need child care classes to become
> > a
> > registered daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
> > certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record for
> > the
> > department of children and family is clean. But to say, opening up a
> > family
> > daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So many in home daycares are ones
> > that want
> > to easily make money, (do not really want to work for a boss and go by
> > their
> > rules), or want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion,
> > knowing
> > so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due to
> > violating
> > the regulations and rules with the department of family and child care
> > unit.
> > "Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in home
> > daycares
> > running, It is so easy & free to get registered & you do not even have
> > to
> > graduate from high school.And to say, you need to take classes in
> > knowing how
> > to take care of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my
> > husband
> > if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
> > with
> > the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you need
> > to even
> > take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats to me, not fair
> > to
> > children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,(being watched
> > by a
> > provider that has no high school diploma or a college dregree in
> > childhood
> > development)?.. Think about why more & more in home daycares are
> > getting
> > closed down by the state, but less do not by a license center that
> > carries a
> > childhood delevopment diploma in college. I believe registered daycares
> > that
> > are still running should take more courses & take classes by the child
> > family
> > daycare unit that gives providers certificate's. And when a new in home
> >
> > daycares opens, they should have proof of a high school diploma and
> > take part
> > in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones that
> > can
> > not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for your college
> > in
> > childcare development..
> >

[Jeff]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the quality
> of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care in
> education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those centers
> have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development. I want my child to
> have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
> kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high school
> diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
> anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that &
> in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare center's,
> just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
> education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home daycare.
> Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!

No one ever suggested "stay N Play home daycare." Yet, playing is an
important way kids learn.

I disagree. No childcare center has a degree. The employees do. How often
are the employees turning over? How experienced are the employees? How many
kids to an employee?

Another thing to consider: why is the child going to daycare? Sometimes
parents send kids to daycare for a few hour a week just so that the kid gets
exposed to other kids and working with them. Other times, most of hte kids'
waking hours are at daycare.

While the education of the caregivers is one factor to consider, many
home-based day care centers are better than childcare centers. And vice
versa.

You have to look at the big picture, not just the degrees.

Jeff

[bizby40]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the
> quality
> of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care
> in
> education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those
> centers
> have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development.

I'm not sure where you are posting from, but where I live, there is no
requirement at all that anyone involved in a child care center have
any kind of a degree.

> I want my child to
> have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
> kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high
> school
> diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
> anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that
> &
> in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare
> center's,
> just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
> education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home
> daycare.
> Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!

For the first year and a half of his life, my son went to a home day
care. I don't know or care whether the woman had a degree of any
kind, but she was an excellent care provider for my son. Her home was
neat and orderly, she kept the kids involved in fun activities, she
was quiet and upbeat and positive. I stopped working then and so I
kept him home with me, but we were sad to leave her, and she was sad
to lose him. He still has (and uses) the blanket she hand-made for
him.

When he was three, he started attending an excellent pre-school. He
had the same teacher there for 2 years. We adored her, and he loved
his time at the school. He still has (and plays with) the stuffed
animal they gave him at "graduation."

There is no slam-dunk. There are advantages and disadvantages to one
or the other, but you can find poor to excellent examples of all types
of child care.

Bizby

[Lilaeyes]

Their are way to many home daycares.I hear ones that work,like at super
markets, (that want a better paying job?).. And I hear their friend's
say, why don't you open up a daycare.. That is easy but for childcare
centers that work, (in college for a business center to open for
preschoolers)?. Centers are open all year around with play time with
other children & nap time..Children do have freddom and alot of play
time with other children...It is a better quality daycare with better
education..Centers may be more expensive but their are childcare
fundings. I rather pay out and go broke, as long as my child gets the
best education in a quality preschool center.And with parents working
nights and weekend, home daycares are fine. I'm not against home
daycares but I believe the state should make it more difficult for
providers to get their registration.. Your working for the state. So
the state ahould ask them for a high school diploma and some college
education in early childhood education.. Like for instance, step to LNA
to 9 months in being a LPN to 4 years of college in becoming a RN?.You
can get payed by the state to care for two familes but to open a
registered family daycare, you should take a 9 months course in college
for semi childcare,(for in home daycares that work for the
state)...Their are to many complaints everyday about in home daycares
that allow children watching Tv. more than two hours, or health and
safety issue's. Unsupervised or getting shut down. Children are us ansd
need more quality daycare. An provider with better education in early
childhood education. So again, the state needs to have these providers
to get more education in short time college,(semi education in early
childhood education).. Because in home daycares do need to do a semi
structure daycare,(which alot of these daycares do not follow the
rules), do to not graduating from high school or take semi courses in
college.. In my are, it is over populated with in home daycares,due to
no lack of education/high school diploma or college education.I feel
sorry for children. Thats why their are 1 800 numbers for child abuse
in home daycares/ neglect.. Online to report in home daycares for abuse
and neglect.. We're hurting for Child care centers!!


Jeff wrote:
> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the quality
> > of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care in
> > education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those centers
> > have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development. I want my child to
> > have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
> > kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high school
> > diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
> > anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that &
> > in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare center's,
> > just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
> > education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home daycare.
> > Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!
>
> No one ever suggested "stay N Play home daycare." Yet, playing is an
> important way kids learn.
>
> I disagree. No childcare center has a degree. The employees do. How often
> are the employees turning over? How experienced are the employees? How many
> kids to an employee?


I want my children in a child care center being educated by a licensed
teacher that requires a B.A. in early childhood education.. Yes
employee's that work for the center, work under a director/teachers
that have to carry a degree in early childhood education. I do not want
a babysitter,(in home daycare), that does not require a high school
diploma or a college degree.. I want the best for my children, the best
education, grow and play with other children. When preschool centers
are closed for the night & weekend, I trust my emmediate family
mermbers or a SMALL daycare home I have looked into. I view alot of

http://www.brightfutures.dcf.state.vt.us/vtcc/reset.do;jsessionid=FqvSNThT1MvFz83Qdtkw9n1QG0rdm1 tXYSHqdzX1yyLPgQQ3JXwd!669408948?0Mmr3gjumkz13-SgYEjWekr3%3dxguw3YEa.aU7zaju.xnn.xGOOd-SS-Gd%2bGG%256UhD%256USO.DGqgwEkeUs3peYY.wjRszYgwUVm3 1mLUjsegsUWVjUVm3mWgwkmpwUVm31mLUjsegkz13SSd0hFFDF ODGD_O
& check the providers history to see if they've any violations..
>
> Another thing to consider: why is the child going to daycare? Sometimes
> parents send kids to daycare for a few hour a week just so that the kid gets
> exposed to other kids and working with them. Other times, most of hte kids'
> waking hours are at daycare.
>
> While the education of the caregivers is one factor to consider, many
> home-based day care centers are better than childcare centers. And vice
> versa.
>
> You have to look at the big picture, not just the degrees.
>
> Jeff

[Lilaeyes]

I'm happy for you and the thought your son attened a pre-school. I want
my son to attend pre-school not no in home daycare. Your son's provider
was once a in home daycare provider but took courses in college to
become a pre-school teacher. I like the woman that caredc for your son.
That is exactly what i'm getting at. The state should make it more
difficult for ones to become in home day care provider. They should
require at some college education at night school for early childhood
education.. Like for instance, the state would pay providers to care
for up to two familes.. No high school diploma or college. But a in
home daycare,(working for the state), semi courses up to 3 to 9 months
for childhood education should be rquired.. But with pre-schoolers,
think about it?.. Thats what, two to 4 years of college?. Like being a
LNA & a in home registered daycare provider?.. You do not need a high
school diploma or a college degree. But wanting to become a LPN, you
need 9 months of college. And wanting to become a RN, that is 4 years
in college. Think about the children & the education they need.Why is
it so simple to become a in home day care provider?.. I answered the
question above.
bizby40 wrote:
> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
> > Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the
> > quality
> > of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care
> > in
> > education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those
> > centers
> > have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development.
>
> I'm not sure where you are posting from, but where I live, there is no
> requirement at all that anyone involved in a child care center have
> any kind of a degree.
>
> > I want my child to
> > have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
> > kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high
> > school
> > diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
> > anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that
> > &
> > in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare
> > center's,
> > just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
> > education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home
> > daycare.
> > Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!
>
> For the first year and a half of his life, my son went to a home day
> care. I don't know or care whether the woman had a degree of any
> kind, but she was an excellent care provider for my son. Her home was
> neat and orderly, she kept the kids involved in fun activities, she
> was quiet and upbeat and positive. I stopped working then and so I
> kept him home with me, but we were sad to leave her, and she was sad
> to lose him. He still has (and uses) the blanket she hand-made for
> him.
>
> When he was three, he started attending an excellent pre-school. He
> had the same teacher there for 2 years. We adored her, and he loved
> his time at the school. He still has (and plays with) the stuffed
> animal they gave him at "graduation."
>
> There is no slam-dunk. There are advantages and disadvantages to one
> or the other, but you can find poor to excellent examples of all types
> of child care.
>
> Bizby

[bizby40]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm happy for you and the thought your son attened a pre-school.

I don't think pre-school is an absolute necessity, but I was happy
that his was a good one. We weren't as lucky with my daughter. Her
school had an excellent reputation at the time we signed her up, but
it went downhill. I don't think it did her any harm, but it certainly
didn't end up what we had hoped.

> I want my son to attend pre-school not no in home daycare.

Yes, we understand that. It is certainly your prerogative to choose
the kind of care for your son that you think is best.

> Your son's provider
> was once a in home daycare provider but took courses in college to
> become a pre-school teacher. I like the woman that caredc for your
> son.
> That is exactly what i'm getting at.

No, you misunderstand. The woman who cared for my son in her home
still does home day care. The woman who cared for my daughter in her
home did have a degree, though it was in music. She started out
excellent too, but then the care level deteriorated. We had much
better luck with our son all around.

> The state should make it more
> difficult for ones to become in home day care provider. They should
> require at some college education at night school for early
> childhood
> education.. Like for instance, the state would pay providers to care
> for up to two familes.. No high school diploma or college. But a in
> home daycare,(working for the state), semi courses up to 3 to 9
> months
> for childhood education should be rquired.. But with pre-schoolers,
> think about it?.. Thats what, two to 4 years of college?. Like being
> a
> LNA & a in home registered daycare provider?.. You do not need a
> high
> school diploma or a college degree. But wanting to become a LPN, you
> need 9 months of college. And wanting to become a RN, that is 4
> years
> in college. Think about the children & the education they need.Why
> is
> it so simple to become a in home day care provider?.. I answered the
> question above.

I understand your point and agree to an extent. Pretty much anyone
can claim to be a home day care provider. In areas of high demand,
you don't even have to get licensed at all. It would be nice to think
that licensed day care centers are automatically better, it's just not
true.

Even if we could all afford to hire people with 4-year degrees to
watch our infants, I'm not convinced that a degree is the answer. For
infants and toddlers, a loving, calm, attentive, nurturing person is
the best person for the job. Those are things that can't be taught in
college.

But I do think they could do more to make licensure mean something.
Perhaps they could require a course on child safety, just to make sure
they know the basics. I'd also like to see more surprise visits at
both home day care and at centers.

Bizby

[[email protected]]

If it was my kid, I'd want them in a licensed facility.

Angel
www.creativememories.com
www.mtacc.net
www.candletech.com


On Nov 26, 7:25 pm, "Lilaeyes" > wrote:
> Please give your own opinion. I feel that any
> parent that
> is looking for childcare should choose a license childcare center,
> because
> those center's have experience in children. With these centers with a
> childhood degree in college?.. I feel comfortable placing my children
> in a
> center instead. A in home daycare, you do not even need a high school
> diploma.
> I should know because I was once a in home registered daycare provider
> & I
> dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children &
> know
> how to raise children. So to say you need child care classes to become
> a
> registered daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
> certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record for
> the
> department of children and family is clean. But to say, opening up a
> family
> daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So many in home daycares are ones
> that want
> to easily make money, (do not really want to work for a boss and go by
> their
> rules), or want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion,
> knowing
> so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due to
> violating
> the regulations and rules with the department of family and child care
> unit.
> "Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in home
> daycares
> running, It is so easy & free to get registered & you do not even have
> to
> graduate from high school.And to say, you need to take classes in
> knowing how
> to take care of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my
> husband
> if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
> with
> the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you need
> to even
> take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats to me, not fair
> to
> children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,(being watched
> by a
> provider that has no high school diploma or a college dregree in
> childhood
> development)?.. Think about why more & more in home daycares are
> getting
> closed down by the state, but less do not by a license center that
> carries a
> childhood delevopment diploma in college. I believe registered daycares
> that
> are still running should take more courses & take classes by the child
> family
> daycare unit that gives providers certificate's. And when a new in home
>
> daycares opens, they should have proof of a high school diploma and
> take part
> in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones that
> can
> not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for your college
> in
> childcare development..

[Jeff]

Please don't top post. Please in-line post. It makes it easier to follow the
thread.


"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Their are way to many home daycares.

Gee, when I was growing up and mothers usually did not work, about 1/2 the
homes were home daycares. They were run by moms.

> I hear ones that work,like at super
> markets, (that want a better paying job?).. And I hear their friend's
> say, why don't you open up a daycare.. That is easy but for childcare
> centers that work, (in college for a business center to open for
> preschoolers)?. Centers are open all year around with play time with
> other children & nap time..Children do have freddom and alot of play
> time with other children...It is a better quality daycare with better
> education..Centers may be more expensive but their are childcare
> fundings. I rather pay out and go broke, as long as my child gets the
> best education in a quality preschool center.

Do you have any evidence that, in general, "centers" are better than
home-based daycare?

>And with parents working
> nights and weekend, home daycares are fine. I'm not against home
> daycares but I believe the state should make it more difficult for
> providers to get their registration.. Your working for the state. So
> the state ahould ask them for a high school diploma and some college
> education in early childhood education.. Like for instance, step to LNA
> to 9 months in being a LPN to 4 years of college in becoming a RN?.You
> can get payed by the state to care for two familes but to open a
> registered family daycare, you should take a 9 months course in college
> for semi childcare,(for in home daycares that work for the
> state)...

Why should home daycares work for the state? They should work for the
parents and the kids.

>Their are to many complaints everyday about in home daycares
> that allow children watching Tv. more than two hours, or health and
> safety issue's. Unsupervised or getting shut down.

In other words, the licensing authorities are taking action against the bad
ones. Good.

> Children are us ansd
> need more quality daycare. An provider with better education in early
> childhood education. So again, the state needs to have these providers
> to get more education in short time college,(semi education in early
> childhood education).. Because in home daycares do need to do a semi
> structure daycare,(which alot of these daycares do not follow the
> rules), do to not graduating from high school or take semi courses in
> college.. In my are, it is over populated with in home daycares,due to
> no lack of education/high school diploma or college education.I feel
> sorry for children. Thats why their are 1 800 numbers for child abuse
> in home daycares/ neglect.. Online to report in home daycares for abuse
> and neglect.. We're hurting for Child care centers!!

Perhaps the answer is to have the child care centers pay more to the
teachers, so that they can get better quality teachers and have less
turnover of staff.

However, this also costs money.

You keep saying that you would spend all your money for quality daycare.
However, sometimes parents have to work for things like food and housing.
They can't afford everything.

Jeff

>
>
> Jeff wrote:
>> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
>> ps.com...
>> > Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the quality
>> > of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care in
>> > education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those centers
>> > have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development. I want my child to
>> > have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
>> > kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high school
>> > diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
>> > anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that &
>> > in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare center's,
>> > just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
>> > education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home daycare.
>> > Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!
>>
>> No one ever suggested "stay N Play home daycare." Yet, playing is an
>> important way kids learn.
>>
>> I disagree. No childcare center has a degree. The employees do. How often
>> are the employees turning over? How experienced are the employees? How
>> many
>> kids to an employee?
>
>
> I want my children in a child care center being educated by a licensed
> teacher that requires a B.A. in early childhood education.. Yes
> employee's that work for the center, work under a director/teachers
> that have to carry a degree in early childhood education. I do not want
> a babysitter,(in home daycare), that does not require a high school
> diploma or a college degree.. I want the best for my children, the best
> education, grow and play with other children. When preschool centers
> are closed for the night & weekend, I trust my emmediate family
> mermbers or a SMALL daycare home I have looked into. I view alot of
>
> http://www.brightfutures.dcf.state.vt.us/vtcc/reset.do;jsessionid=FqvSNThT1MvFz83Qdtkw9n1QG0rdm1 tXYSHqdzX1yyLPgQQ3JXwd!669408948?0Mmr3gjumkz13-SgYEjWekr3%3dxguw3YEa.aU7zaju.xnn.xGOOd-SS-Gd%2bGG%256UhD%256USO.DGqgwEkeUs3peYY.wjRszYgwUVm3 1mLUjsegsUWVjUVm3mWgwkmpwUVm31mLUjsegkz13SSd0hFFDF ODGD_O
> & check the providers history to see if they've any violations..
>>
>> Another thing to consider: why is the child going to daycare? Sometimes
>> parents send kids to daycare for a few hour a week just so that the kid
>> gets
>> exposed to other kids and working with them. Other times, most of hte
>> kids'
>> waking hours are at daycare.
>>
>> While the education of the caregivers is one factor to consider, many
>> home-based day care centers are better than childcare centers. And vice
>> versa.
>>
>> You have to look at the big picture, not just the degrees.
>>
>> Jeff
>

[Jeff]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> I'm happy for you and the thought your son attened a pre-school. I want
> my son to attend pre-school not no in home daycare.

Then take your son to a preschool.

>Your son's provider
> was once a in home daycare provider but took courses in college to
> become a pre-school teacher.

You need to read more carefully. She had two different daycare providers,
one who was a home daycare provider, and then a preschool.

> I like the woman that caredc for your son.
> That is exactly what i'm getting at. The state should make it more
> difficult for ones to become in home day care provider. They should
> require at some college education at night school for early childhood
> education.. Like for instance, the state would pay providers to care
> for up to two familes..

And where is the state going to get the money? Us.

>No high school diploma or college. But a in
> home daycare,(working for the state), semi courses up to 3 to 9 months
> for childhood education should be rquired.. But with pre-schoolers,
> think about it?.. Thats what, two to 4 years of college?. Like being a
> LNA & a in home registered daycare provider?.. You do not need a high
> school diploma or a college degree. But wanting to become a LPN, you
> need 9 months of college. And wanting to become a RN, that is 4 years
> in college. Think about the children & the education they need.Why is
> it so simple to become a in home day care provider?.. I answered the
> question above.

You provided us with your opinion about licensing requirements. However, you
failed to back your opinion with data that shows poorer outcomes for kids
from home daycare vs. kids from daycare centers.

Jeff
> bizby40 wrote:
>> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
>> ps.com...
>> > Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the
>> > quality
>> > of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care
>> > in
>> > education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those
>> > centers
>> > have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development.
>>
>> I'm not sure where you are posting from, but where I live, there is no
>> requirement at all that anyone involved in a child care center have
>> any kind of a degree.
>>
>> > I want my child to
>> > have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
>> > kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high
>> > school
>> > diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
>> > anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that
>> > &
>> > in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare
>> > center's,
>> > just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
>> > education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home
>> > daycare.
>> > Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!
>>
>> For the first year and a half of his life, my son went to a home day
>> care. I don't know or care whether the woman had a degree of any
>> kind, but she was an excellent care provider for my son. Her home was
>> neat and orderly, she kept the kids involved in fun activities, she
>> was quiet and upbeat and positive. I stopped working then and so I
>> kept him home with me, but we were sad to leave her, and she was sad
>> to lose him. He still has (and uses) the blanket she hand-made for
>> him.
>>
>> When he was three, he started attending an excellent pre-school. He
>> had the same teacher there for 2 years. We adored her, and he loved
>> his time at the school. He still has (and plays with) the stuffed
>> animal they gave him at "graduation."
>>
>> There is no slam-dunk. There are advantages and disadvantages to one
>> or the other, but you can find poor to excellent examples of all types
>> of child care.
>>
>> Bizby
>

[Jeff]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Jeff wrote:
>> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > Please give your own opinion. I feel that any
>> > parent that
>> > is looking for childcare should choose a license childcare center,
>> > because
>> > those center's have experience in children.
>
> I agree & taking childhood courses in childcare, college graduates have
> more underatanding in children's behavior

You can't learn how to handle children in class. You need hands on
experience.

>>
>> I disagree. Girls in middle school give birth to kids every day. They
>> don't
>> have an 8th grade diploma, let alone a high school diploma.
>
> And shouldn't run a home daycare for reasons why more and more in home
> dacares gets their license revoked

Yet they are responsible for their kids. I never suggested that they should
be running daycare facility.

>>
>> A lot of parents take their kids to grandma for daycare, yet grandma
>> doesn't
>> have a degree.
>
> I agree that they're grandma's that do not have a degree but i'm
> talking about in home daycares that should take part in college courses
> for understanding children.

Why shouldn't grandmas who don't have a degree, but have lots of experience,
have home daycares?

> That of course would keep daycares open not
> getting closed. Like for instance, those couples that were jailed for
> porno, (running a in home daycare and taking porn photo's of their
> daycare children).That happened in Florida??.. It was on the news???

That was an isolated event. The same thing can happen in a daycare center,
as well.
>>
>> Parents should choose a day care because the day care gives good quality,
>> loving care to kids. A high-school degree is not needed.
>
>
> And that of course causes alot of field investagators to monitor more &
> more home daycares, let alone not a much as license centers..

Really? Evdience, please.

>>
>> However, day care centers that are not in home often are impersonal with
>> lots of staff turnover.
>
> I rather choice a good quality child care center where their is a B.A.
> Degree in understanding children.

I never heard of a BA degree in understanding children. I heard of a BA in
early childhood education, which is different. A lot of adults understand
children, without having a degree.

> College graduate that went ALL THE
> Way into college. Not a drop out fool that was once on welfare, &
> rushes for a lousy registration to open up a in home daycare for the
> love of getting rich!!...

First, being on welfare doesn't make one a fool. A lot of smart people are
on welfare. Some of them just had horrible childhoods or bad luck. In fact,
I know a lot of smart people whose families live or lived in public housing
and were on welfare.

Second, if you have someone who has no money (like someone on welfare) and
opens a business, more power to her (or him). That's one way to get off
welfare.

Third, I doubt anyone ever gets rich from running a home daycare.

> I rather go broke & pay OUT the good cost of
> a professional, quality center that has experience in children & a GOOD
> B.A Degree in children.

Then go broke. But please stop suggesting that a good degree in children
(there's no such thing; it's early childhood education) is the end all and
be all of a good daycare center.

> I know definately my children are safe!!

Yeah, there are bad people with degrees in early childhood education. The
only way you can be sure that your child is safe in any daycare setting is
to make surprise inspections of the daycare center are various times of the
day. It doesn't matter if it is a in-home daycare or a daycare center.
Daycare centers have been known to have poor quality of care, too.

> However Daycare centers are professional in the fields. Have good
> quality & a B.A. Degree in Child Care..

They have more training. However, it is more important that the people love
children. Having a degree in early childhood education is not as important,
IMHO.

Jeff

>>
>> I say go with the quality of care, not the degree.
>
> I agree with the quality of childcare, when in the fields of graduating
> with a B.A degree in child care,( or becoming a director for
> childcare).. But in homes need more courses & should take part in some
> college, in becoming more professional,not dropping out of high
> school,(being on welfare), & opening a private in home daycare ,(not
> just for the children they do not want to care for much), but for the
> money they want.It is a easy way of making good money, when good
> workers go all they way to college for the love for children not much
> the money!!.. And to say in home daycares are monitored!?.. Of course,
> these high school drop outs monitored their babysitting job for field
> investigators, (they do know field invesigators do show up
> unexpectedly, to check and see if they're running a good quality
> daycare?).. I am not saying that when a provider has no degree, they
> are not good quality daycare. But everyday,more & more in home daycares
> are getting close, due to poor quality care. So in another words, the
> state should make it more difficult for in home daycares to get their
> license. So much child abuse & neglect happens alot more in private
> home daycares.. They need to be educated more & take part in childhood
> in college..
>>
>> jeff
>>
>> > With these centers with a
>> > childhood degree in college?.. I feel comfortable placing my children
>> > in a
>> > center instead. A in home daycare, you do not even need a high school
>> > diploma.
>> > I should know because I was once a in home registered daycare provider
>> > & I
>> > dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children &
>> > know
>> > how to raise children. So to say you need child care classes to become
>> > a
>> > registered daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
>> > certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record for
>> > the
>> > department of children and family is clean. But to say, opening up a
>> > family
>> > daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So many in home daycares are ones
>> > that want
>> > to easily make money, (do not really want to work for a boss and go by
>> > their
>> > rules), or want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion,
>> > knowing
>> > so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due to
>> > violating
>> > the regulations and rules with the department of family and child care
>> > unit.
>> > "Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in home
>> > daycares
>> > running, It is so easy & free to get registered & you do not even have
>> > to
>> > graduate from high school.And to say, you need to take classes in
>> > knowing how
>> > to take care of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my
>> > husband
>> > if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
>> > with
>> > the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you need
>> > to even
>> > take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats to me, not fair
>> > to
>> > children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,(being watched
>> > by a
>> > provider that has no high school diploma or a college dregree in
>> > childhood
>> > development)?.. Think about why more & more in home daycares are
>> > getting
>> > closed down by the state, but less do not by a license center that
>> > carries a
>> > childhood delevopment diploma in college. I believe registered daycares
>> > that
>> > are still running should take more courses & take classes by the child
>> > family
>> > daycare unit that gives providers certificate's. And when a new in home
>> >
>> > daycares opens, they should have proof of a high school diploma and
>> > take part
>> > in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones that
>> > can
>> > not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for your college
>> > in
>> > childcare development..
>> >
>

[bizby40]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> Daycare centers have been known to have poor quality of care, too.

When my daughter was in pre-school, the school lost a child. The kids
had been outside playing, and when they walked back inside, the
teachers failed to realize that one child didn't come in. The school
never did notice her missing. It so happened that a man who was
walking with his son saw the girl wandering by the side of the road
alone. This would be bad under any circumstances, but was worse than
usual as this is one of those winding country roads with no shoulders,
no sidewalks, and cars that routinely top 60mph.

The man returned the child, the parents withdrew her, and we other
parents might never have even found out except that a month later the
school got a call from the newspaper. The parents, frustrated at the
cover-up, had called them. The school desperately tried to contact
all of us parents that day to explain the situation. The story came
out the next day. According to the story, the parents had all been
advised, and the school had taken steps to ensure that it would never
happen again. There was no mention of the fact that the school had
waited over a month to do this, and probably would never have done
anything if they hadn't been exposed.

Just an isolated incident of course, but a graphic and personal
example of how even licensed day care centers offer no real
guarantees. I remember another incident from the news. A mom was
late picking up her child, and when she got there, the school was
closed and locked. Hearing her child crying inside, she broke a
window and found him alone in the building in a crib.

I'm so glad my kids are older now.

Bizby

[Jeff]

"bizby40" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Daycare centers have been known to have poor quality of care, too.
>
> When my daughter was in pre-school, the school lost a child. The kids had
> been outside playing, and when they walked back inside, the teachers
> failed to realize that one child didn't come in. The school never did
> notice her missing.

It is so easy for a child to be missed. Which is why there must be
procedures in place to make sure that *all* the kids return to the school.
If a kid is missing, there must be procedures in place to quickly locate the
kid. That kids turn up missing every now and again is no surprise. How many
kids get lost in the store every day? That the school had a kid who was lost
for a short period of time isn't a problem. That the school did not have a
proper procedure in place to handle the situation and get the kid safely
back to school is a problem. So is the school's cover-up.

<...>

> Just an isolated incident of course, but a graphic and personal example of
> how even licensed day care centers offer no real guarantees. I remember
> another incident from the news. A mom was late picking up her child, and
> when she got there, the school was closed and locked. Hearing her child
> crying inside, she broke a window and found him alone in the building in a
> crib.

My cousin was left on the bus in kindergarten. He was sleeping on the
*front* seat. The bus driver went to the back of the bus, turned the "no
child left behind sign" that indicates the bus has been searched for left
behind kids, and left the bus. Some search. When the kid did not show up at
home, the parents called the school, who called the bus company who found
the kid sleeping.

And these are licensed people.

And in public schools, the teachers are also licensed. Yet, in NYC, about
1/2 the kids fail to graduate high school. Just because you have licensed
professionals, you don't necessarily have a good admistrative system or
proper support.

Jeff
>
> I'm so glad my kids are older now.
>
> Bizby
>

[Anne Rogers]

coming from the UK, where in home childcare is much much more strongly
regulated, I do find it surprising the lack of regulation here, but then
again, day care centres also have strict rules in the UK and the carer to
child ratio is much lower (1 to 3). Whilst living there, I was very lucky to
find excellent child minders who looked after my children in there own
homes, to my children, the child minder was like an extra aunt and the other
children were like cousins. If I were to use an in home day care provider
here in the US, I would initially be much more cautious due to the lack of
regulation, but if I chose that route I'm sure that with careful checks and
proceeding slowly, I could find excellent care. Going the day care route,
I've also had to proceed carefully, just as I would in the UK, some centres
have high staff turn overs and very high carer to child ratios, the rooms
can be small and become very crowded, I think we've found one that suits.

If we needed childcare for after school in future, I would very seriously
consider in home care, that has got to be much better than riding the school
bus to the local kindercare.

There has been scandals and news worthy occurances associated with both day
care centres and in home child care, some things might be more risky in one
setting and others in another.

Cheers

Anne

[Stephanie]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the quality
> of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care in
> education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those centers
> have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development. I want my child to
> have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
> kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high school
> diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
> anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that &
> in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare center's,
> just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
> education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home daycare.
> Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!


You seem very confused. While a center director is required to have a
degree, aroundhere, the staff is not. The education and training
requirements for staff are much the same as for home providers. YOu seem to
think that because the state does not *require* a degree that home providers
don't have them. If you believe that there is no value in "play toys" in
early education or that home providers universally use tv as a sitter then I
expect it was wise of you to stop being a home provider.

[Stephanie]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Their are way to many home daycares.I hear ones that work,like at super
> markets, (that want a better paying job?).. And I hear their friend's
> say, why don't you open up a daycare.. That is easy but for childcare
> centers that work, (in college for a business center to open for
> preschoolers)?. Centers are open all year around with play time with
> other children & nap time..Children do have freddom and alot of play
> time with other children...It is a better quality daycare with better
> education..


Wow. I am pretty sure I would like to argue with you. But your written
language skills are so poor it is hard to be crystal clear what you are
trying to say. It does seem that you are making generalizations that have no
basis in real fact for comparing centers to home providers as groups. My
children have spent time in both, and are luckily here with me at my home
daycare. Thanks to the library and a good friend, I have more knowledge of
early childhood education than the bozos at the 2 centers that they went to.

Around here, the vast majority of home providers are touting early childhood
education degrees. I know this through my market research before starting.
The centers are largely staffed by high school students who are not doing
well in school or have dropped out.



> Centers may be more expensive but their are childcare
> fundings. I rather pay out and go broke, as long as my child gets the
> best education in a quality preschool center.And with parents working
> nights and weekend, home daycares are fine. I'm not against home
> daycares but I believe the state should make it more difficult for
> providers to get their registration..



WHile that would not bother me, I think the correct approach is for parents
to have buyer beware attitude, and have a clear understanding of what
quality childcare means to them and use their powers of examination to
choose the best provider for them.


> Your working for the state. So
> the state ahould ask them for a high school diploma and some college
> education in early childhood education.. Like for instance, step to LNA
> to 9 months in being a LPN to 4 years of college in becoming a RN?.


Why on earth would nursing training qualify you to provide childcare?


> You
> can get payed by the state to care for two familes but to open a
> registered family daycare, you should take a 9 months course in college
> for semi childcare,(for in home daycares that work for the
> state)...Their are to many complaints everyday about in home daycares
> that allow children watching Tv. more than two hours, or health and
> safety issue's. Unsupervised or getting shut down. Children are us ansd
> need more quality daycare.


that's funny. around here the stats around this show WAY more citations and
closures among centers

>An provider with better education in early
> childhood education. So again, the state needs to have these providers
> to get more education in short time college,(semi education in early
> childhood education).. Because in home daycares do need to do a semi
> structure daycare,(which alot of these daycares do not follow the
> rules), do to not graduating from high school or take semi courses in
> college.. In my are, it is over populated with in home daycares,due to
> no lack of education/high school diploma or college education.I feel
> sorry for children. Thats why their are 1 800 numbers for child abuse
> in home daycares/ neglect.. Online to report in home daycares for abuse
> and neglect.. We're hurting for Child care centers!!
>
>
> Jeff wrote:
>> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
>> ps.com...
>> > Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the quality
>> > of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care in
>> > education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those centers
>> > have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development. I want my child to
>> > have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
>> > kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high school
>> > diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
>> > anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that &
>> > in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare center's,
>> > just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
>> > education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home daycare.
>> > Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!
>>
>> No one ever suggested "stay N Play home daycare." Yet, playing is an
>> important way kids learn.
>>
>> I disagree. No childcare center has a degree. The employees do. How often
>> are the employees turning over? How experienced are the employees? How
>> many
>> kids to an employee?
>
>
> I want my children in a child care center being educated by a licensed
> teacher that requires a B.A. in early childhood education.. Yes
> employee's that work for the center, work under a director/teachers
> that have to carry a degree in early childhood education. I do not want
> a babysitter,(in home daycare), that does not require a high school
> diploma or a college degree.. I want the best for my children, the best
> education, grow and play with other children. When preschool centers
> are closed for the night & weekend, I trust my emmediate family
> mermbers or a SMALL daycare home I have looked into. I view alot of
>
> http://www.brightfutures.dcf.state.vt.us/vtcc/reset.do;jsessionid=FqvSNThT1MvFz83Qdtkw9n1QG0rdm1 tXYSHqdzX1yyLPgQQ3JXwd!669408948?0Mmr3gjumkz13-SgYEjWekr3%3dxguw3YEa.aU7zaju.xnn.xGOOd-SS-Gd%2bGG%256UhD%256USO.DGqgwEkeUs3peYY.wjRszYgwUVm3 1mLUjsegsUWVjUVm3mWgwkmpwUVm31mLUjsegkz13SSd0hFFDF ODGD_O
> & check the providers history to see if they've any violations..
>>
>> Another thing to consider: why is the child going to daycare? Sometimes
>> parents send kids to daycare for a few hour a week just so that the kid
>> gets
>> exposed to other kids and working with them. Other times, most of hte
>> kids'
>> waking hours are at daycare.
>>
>> While the education of the caregivers is one factor to consider, many
>> home-based day care centers are better than childcare centers. And vice
>> versa.
>>
>> You have to look at the big picture, not just the degrees.
>>
>> Jeff
>

[Caledonia]

bizby40 wrote:

> Even if we could all afford to hire people with 4-year degrees to
> watch our infants, I'm not convinced that a degree is the answer. For
> infants and toddlers, a loving, calm, attentive, nurturing person is
> the best person for the job. Those are things that can't be taught in
> college.

DD1 and DD2's infant care-provider (in a center) had decided at 18 that
she wanted to care for infants. She was (and is) absolutely great at
this, 12 years later. I've come to realize that caring for multiple
infants, all day, 5 days/week is a vocation, and we're just so very
lucky we found her. She did not attend college, and frankly, it didn't
matter a whit to us.

Caledonia

[Lilaeyes]

Anne Rogers wrote:
> coming from the UK, where in home childcare is much much more strongly
> regulated, I do find it surprising the lack of regulation here, but then
> again, day care centres also have strict rules in the UK and the carer to
> child ratio is much lower (1 to 3). Whilst living there, I was very lucky to
> find excellent child minders who looked after my children in there own
> homes, to my children, the child minder was like an extra aunt and the other
> children were like cousins. If I were to use an in home day care provider
> here in the US, I would initially be much more cautious due to the lack of
> regulation, but if I chose that route I'm sure that with careful checks and
> proceeding slowly, I could find excellent care. Going the day care route,
> I've also had to proceed carefully, just as I would in the UK, some centres
> have high staff turn overs and very high carer to child ratios, the rooms
> can be small and become very crowded, I think we've found one that suits.
>
> If we needed childcare for after school in future, I would very seriously
> consider in home care, that has got to be much better than riding the school
> bus to the local kindercare.
>
> There has been scandals and news worthy occurances associated with both day
> care centres and in home child care, some things might be more risky in one
> setting and others in another.
>
> Cheers
>
> Anne

[Lilaeyes]

Anne Rogers wrote:
> coming from the UK, where in home childcare is much much more strongly
> regulated, I do find it surprising the lack of regulation here, but then
> again, day care centres also have strict rules in the UK and the carer to
> child ratio is much lower (1 to 3). Whilst living there, I was very lucky to
> find excellent child minders who looked after my children in there own
> homes, to my children, the child minder was like an extra aunt and the other
> children were like cousins. If I were to use an in home day care provider
> here in the US, I would initially be much more cautious due to the lack of
> regulation, but if I chose that route I'm sure that with careful checks and
> proceeding slowly, I could find excellent care. Going the day care route,
> I've also had to proceed carefully, just as I would in the UK, some centres
> have high staff turn overs and very high carer to child ratios, the rooms
> can be small and become very crowded, I think we've found one that suits.
>
> If we needed childcare for after school in future, I would very seriously
> consider in home care, that has got to be much better than riding the school
> bus to the local kindercare.
>
> There has been scandals and news worthy occurances associated with both day
> care centres and in home child care, some things might be more risky in one
> setting and others in another.
>
> Cheers
>
> Anne


Anne I know what you are saying, & excuse my 101 English everyone,(I am
really sorry)... I am not against family home daycares. What I really
want to know is why is it so easy to open up a family home daycare but
not a pre-school center?.. Even so,(like me that will be plunt), I left
11th grade and after a few years, I open up a family daycare... I
closed because I wanted to go out and work.. Where I live, our city is
loaded with family home daycares. Even so, I know quit a few mothers
that recently were on Welfare & drop their ANFC, to run a daycare.. I
just know pre-school center that also include daycare too, are more
educated & had to go to college to get a B.A. Degree in early childhood
development.. I just believe that the state should pass the law and
have new family daycares require proof of high school diploma & more
semi college in early childhood develpoment.. Even so, with family home
daycares that require CPR, & courses,(while running a registered family
daycare), in learning about children's behavior/develpoment and anger
manage, thats not just for registered providers. That is also free to
the public to join. Our classes are at the county parent child center.
And that is to easy still for any one to simply open up a family
registered daycare.. I'm a happily married woman with three beautiful
children , & with a CPR certificate.. So to say, still its to easy.. I
have been reading this website here alot & i'm working with them. Our
city is nothing but a Welfare family registered daycare... The state
should change the law & make new registered family daycares require
proof of a high school diploma & some semi courses, like night school
at Stafford.. But I will admit, when my daughter was a baby, she was in
Agnes Blow's Registeed family daycare for 3 years. Agnes ran a small
residential daycare.. She was WONDERFUL to all the children.. My
daughter was the only baby. Every time I came to pick up my daughter,
my daughter Kris smelled like Johnson and Johnson baby. Anges bathed
her & when I go home & unpack my daughter's diaper bag, Kris had new
toys.. Even so, Anges made my baby girl a baby blanket for her
crib..Anges was registered with the state for over 20 years or more, &
still has a clean record with the state. No violations or
complaints!!.. Now that Anges doesn't run daycare, I just do not trust
any other home daycares. They're way to many in my city & when I visit
some,all I see is trashy homes, filthy kids, & providers sitting in
their house, staring up at the ceiling,(while children are running
around swearing/fighting or running outside unsupervised).. And I know
a few providers that are single parents that just got off of welfare..
I'm not against family daycares, its I wish the state would make it
more difficult for providers to get their registration to open up a
family home daycare.. I loved Anges & now with her not running a
family home daycare anyone, I am afraid to place my children with a
family home setting. I'm on a waiting list for my 3 year old. I want
him to go to VAC.. Vermont Acheivement Center..The child care cusumer
concern line is located in VAC. It is a huge daycare center thats been
in operation since the early 1970's..I looked up VAC in this site
also,(below), and VAC does not even have one sub- complaint or any
violations. And this childcare center and pre-school has been out since
the early 1970's...

http://www.vac-rutland.com/flash/childcare_support.html


http://www.daycaresdontcare.org/index.htm

[Lilaeyes]

Anne I do agree with you. I will admit, my daughter Kristine,(now 20)
was in Anges Blow family dacare when she was a baby. And everytime I
picked up my girl after work my daughter' s diaper bag had new toys &
she smelled like johnson & johnson baby. Kris was the only baby in
Anges care. Anges was wonderful & always ran a small daycare. Anges was
registered with the state for years & never had any complaints or
violations. Anges ran a daycare for years, till she was in her late
50's. And now that she closed, I just don't trust any family daycare to
care for my children. Anges even made my daughter a baby blanket & my
daughter still has it & gave it to her daughter Kaylee,(my 9 month old
grand daughter).. I am 40 years old & have a three year old son & I am
on a waiting list with the Vermont Acheivment Center, a child care
pre-school & daycare center thats been in operation since the early
1970's.. I am overly protective of my children. I even checked out VAC
on this site http://www.vac-rutland.com/flash/childcare_support.htm
& see that this center does not even have one sub- complaint or
violations.I want my little man to attend that center. It is a huge
center with the childcare consumer concern line, to report child abuse
& neglect at the center... My city is nothing but a home daycare
world.. Every street I know down pack has a family daycare running. I
even visit quit a few family daycares and see nothing but a trashy
house with children running around inside amd out, picking their
noise.. Filthy children chasing one another, swearing & fighting. And I
see providers just sitting at their kitchen table,spacing out, staring
at the ceiling. I mean, its nothing but a welfare family home daycares
in our huge city. I even know a couple of single mom's that just got
off of ANFC & go into running a registered family dacare.And these
classes you take at the county parent child center to keep your license
active in running a family home daycare is Bull. Its free for the
public too. And to even say you even NEED a CPR certificate. I have
one just for my children's sake. I believe the state now should changed
the law & make it more difficult for a new home daycare to open. They
should require proof of a high school diploma & have a new provider
attend night classes at stafford techiical center for 3 to 9 months for
semi courses in early childhood develpoment and understanding children
more... I also want to apologize to everyone for my poor grammar and
writting. I'm sorry everyone



http://www.daycaresdontcare.org/index.htm





Anne Rogers wrote:
> coming from the UK, where in home childcare is much much more strongly
> regulated, I do find it surprising the lack of regulation here, but then
> again, day care centres also have strict rules in the UK and the carer to
> child ratio is much lower (1 to 3). Whilst living there, I was very lucky to
> find excellent child minders who looked after my children in there own
> homes, to my children, the child minder was like an extra aunt and the other
> children were like cousins. If I were to use an in home day care provider
> here in the US, I would initially be much more cautious due to the lack of
> regulation, but if I chose that route I'm sure that with careful checks and
> proceeding slowly, I could find excellent care. Going the day care route,
> I've also had to proceed carefully, just as I would in the UK, some centres
> have high staff turn overs and very high carer to child ratios, the rooms
> can be small and become very crowded, I think we've found one that suits.
>
> If we needed childcare for after school in future, I would very seriously
> consider in home care, that has got to be much better than riding the school
> bus to the local kindercare.
>
> There has been scandals and news worthy occurances associated with both day
> care centres and in home child care, some things might be more risky in one
> setting and others in another.
>
> Cheers
>
> Anne

[Jeff]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> Anne I do agree with you. I will admit, my daughter Kristine,(now 20)
> was in Anges Blow family dacare when she was a baby. And everytime I
> picked up my girl after work my daughter' s diaper bag had new toys &
> she smelled like johnson & johnson baby. Kris was the only baby in
> Anges care. Anges was wonderful & always ran a small daycare. Anges was
> registered with the state for years & never had any complaints or
> violations. Anges ran a daycare for years, till she was in her late
> 50's. And now that she closed, I just don't trust any family daycare to
> care for my children. Anges even made my daughter a baby blanket & my
> daughter still has it & gave it to her daughter Kaylee,(my 9 month old
> grand daughter).. I am 40 years old & have a three year old son & I am
> on a waiting list with the Vermont Acheivment Center, a child care
> pre-school & daycare center thats been in operation since the early
> 1970's.. I am overly protective of my children. I even checked out VAC
> on this site http://www.vac-rutland.com/flash/childcare_support.htm
> & see that this center does not even have one sub- complaint or
> violations.I want my little man to attend that center. It is a huge
> center with the childcare consumer concern line, to report child abuse
> & neglect at the center... My city is nothing but a home daycare
> world.. Every street I know down pack has a family daycare running. I
> even visit quit a few family daycares and see nothing but a trashy
> house with children running around inside amd out, picking their
> noise.. Filthy children chasing one another, swearing & fighting. And I
> see providers just sitting at their kitchen table,spacing out, staring
> at the ceiling. I mean, its nothing but a welfare family home daycares
> in our huge city.

According to http://www.rutlandvermont.com/business.html, there are about
300,000 people in the entire county. That was a few years ago, so perhaps
there are 500,000 people in the entire county. The city is not so huge.

> I even know a couple of single mom's that just got
> off of ANFC & go into running a registered family dacare. And these
> classes you take at the county parent child center to keep your license
> active in running a family home daycare is Bull. Its free for the
> public too. And to even say you even NEED a CPR certificate. I have
> one just for my children's sake. I believe the state now should changed
> the law & make it more difficult for a new home daycare to open.

Bingo. Write your legislators and tell them of your findings. We can't help
you. You can help the kids in vermount.


> They
> should require proof of a high school diploma & have a new provider
> attend night classes at stafford techiical center for 3 to 9 months for
> semi courses in early childhood develpoment and understanding children
> more... I also want to apologize to everyone for my poor grammar and
> writting. I'm sorry everyone

Now we get to the bottom of what is going on. Thanks.

It sounds like you had an excellent experience and are upset that a
wonderful lady retired from daycare.

Now, the home daycare places you see are run by people whom you don't trust
because they don't meet your standards. That doesn't mean that other home
daycares are not good.

Please, write your legislators. I am all for improving standards. All kids
deserve them.

Jeff

[Lilaeyes]

Thankyou Jeff. My throat is tight. . I'm in tears. I'm sorry about the
confusion. I am not a good writer. I will write to them when I have a
day alone, when my kids and grand daughter are napping. Its 11:50 pm
here now & I am going to bed. Talk to you later. And again, thankyou
for your support.



Jeff wrote:
> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> > Anne I do agree with you. I will admit, my daughter Kristine,(now 20)
> > was in Anges Blow family dacare when she was a baby. And everytime I
> > picked up my girl after work my daughter' s diaper bag had new toys &
> > she smelled like johnson & johnson baby. Kris was the only baby in
> > Anges care. Anges was wonderful & always ran a small daycare. Anges was
> > registered with the state for years & never had any complaints or
> > violations. Anges ran a daycare for years, till she was in her late
> > 50's. And now that she closed, I just don't trust any family daycare to
> > care for my children. Anges even made my daughter a baby blanket & my
> > daughter still has it & gave it to her daughter Kaylee,(my 9 month old
> > grand daughter).. I am 40 years old & have a three year old son & I am
> > on a waiting list with the Vermont Acheivment Center, a child care
> > pre-school & daycare center thats been in operation since the early
> > 1970's.. I am overly protective of my children. I even checked out VAC
> > on this site http://www.vac-rutland.com/flash/childcare_support.htm
> > & see that this center does not even have one sub- complaint or
> > violations.I want my little man to attend that center. It is a huge
> > center with the childcare consumer concern line, to report child abuse
> > & neglect at the center... My city is nothing but a home daycare
> > world.. Every street I know down pack has a family daycare running. I
> > even visit quit a few family daycares and see nothing but a trashy
> > house with children running around inside amd out, picking their
> > noise.. Filthy children chasing one another, swearing & fighting. And I
> > see providers just sitting at their kitchen table,spacing out, staring
> > at the ceiling. I mean, its nothing but a welfare family home daycares
> > in our huge city.
>
> According to http://www.rutlandvermont.com/business.html, there are about
> 300,000 people in the entire county. That was a few years ago, so perhaps
> there are 500,000 people in the entire county. The city is not so huge.
>
> > I even know a couple of single mom's that just got
> > off of ANFC & go into running a registered family dacare. And these
> > classes you take at the county parent child center to keep your license
> > active in running a family home daycare is Bull. Its free for the
> > public too. And to even say you even NEED a CPR certificate. I have
> > one just for my children's sake. I believe the state now should changed
> > the law & make it more difficult for a new home daycare to open.
>
> Bingo. Write your legislators and tell them of your findings. We can't help
> you. You can help the kids in vermount.
>
>
> > They
> > should require proof of a high school diploma & have a new provider
> > attend night classes at stafford techiical center for 3 to 9 months for
> > semi courses in early childhood develpoment and understanding children
> > more... I also want to apologize to everyone for my poor grammar and
> > writting. I'm sorry everyone
>
> Now we get to the bottom of what is going on. Thanks.
>
> It sounds like you had an excellent experience and are upset that a
> wonderful lady retired from daycare.
>
> Now, the home daycare places you see are run by people whom you don't trust
> because they don't meet your standards. That doesn't mean that other home
> daycares are not good.
>
> Please, write your legislators. I am all for improving standards. All kids
> deserve them.
>
> Jeff

[Jen]

"bizby40" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>> Jeff I forgot to mention that I would like to say, go for the quality
>> of care & the degree. Children..Children need more good quality care in
>> education. Thats why I would choice a Childcare center. Those centers
>> have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development.
>
> I'm not sure where you are posting from, but where I live, there is no
> requirement at all that anyone involved in a child care center have any
> kind of a degree.

Here in Australia the rules are very strict, and getting stricter all the
time. When I did childcare (more than 10 years ago) there had to be at
least one fully qualified staff member in each room. Qualifying then was 2
years full-time study. I can't remember the nunmber of kids to adults, but
it changed with each age group, and meant quite a few adults. The
regulations change regularly, and I know that now it take 5 years fulltime
study to be fully qualified. I don't know what it takes to do home care,
but I know police checks are done with anyone who works with kids.

Jen
>
>> I want my child to
>> have a good start in education,(preschool), to get ready for
>> kindergarden.. Not stay & play at home daycare that has no high school
>> diploma or a B.A. Degree in understanding in a child's behavior or
>> anger management.. Childcare center's have a B.A. Degree in all that &
>> in preschools.. I rather go broke, paying out into childcare center's,
>> just as long as my child is getting the proper care & in
>> education,(ready for kinder garden). Not no stay N Play home daycare.
>> Watch the Tv. set, play toys. Thats ridiculous!
>
> For the first year and a half of his life, my son went to a home day care.
> I don't know or care whether the woman had a degree of any kind, but she
> was an excellent care provider for my son. Her home was neat and orderly,
> she kept the kids involved in fun activities, she was quiet and upbeat and
> positive. I stopped working then and so I kept him home with me, but we
> were sad to leave her, and she was sad to lose him. He still has (and
> uses) the blanket she hand-made for him.
>
> When he was three, he started attending an excellent pre-school. He had
> the same teacher there for 2 years. We adored her, and he loved his time
> at the school. He still has (and plays with) the stuffed animal they gave
> him at "graduation."
>
> There is no slam-dunk. There are advantages and disadvantages to one or
> the other, but you can find poor to excellent examples of all types of
> child care.
>
> Bizby
>

[cjra]

Anne Rogers wrote:
> coming from the UK, where in home childcare is much much more strongly
> regulated, I do find it surprising the lack of regulation here, but then
> again, day care centres also have strict rules in the UK and the carer to
> child ratio is much lower (1 to 3). Whilst living there, I was very lucky to
> find excellent child minders who looked after my children in there own
> homes, to my children, the child minder was like an extra aunt and the other
> children were like cousins. If I were to use an in home day care provider
> here in the US, I would initially be much more cautious due to the lack of
> regulation, but if I chose that route I'm sure that with careful checks and
> proceeding slowly, I could find excellent care. Going the day care route,
> I've also had to proceed carefully, just as I would in the UK, some centres
> have high staff turn overs and very high carer to child ratios, the rooms
> can be small and become very crowded, I think we've found one that suits.

"here" in the US varies by state. Each state makes its own regulations,
and within the state there may be different districts. How well
regulations are adhered to may depend upon the quality of the local
regulators.

I am pleased with the licensing procedures for in home daycares in
Texas - at least in my area. No degree is required, but training in
infant and child CPR and other first aid issues is required and
references are checked regularly. Inspections are made on a fairly
frequent basis - every few months or so. I don't think that's anything
spectacular, I'd assume that was normal, tho perhaps it varies by area.
I'm happy with it. My inhome provider happens to be on a military base,
so she's also subject to their regulations.

One of the advantages I've found with DD at an inhome daycare rather
than a center is that she's with kids of multiple ages - a couple of
school aged kids who come after school (the children of the sitter), a
1yo, 2yo, another older baby and occassionally a 4yr old. While that
brings certain problems - such as exposure to school-germs, that
interaction with older kids is *really* good for her. She's a social
kid, and really enjoys the stimulation from the other kids. She's doing
some things more advanced for her age because she's learning from them.
It's kind of like having older sibs around :). In a center, she'd be in
a room with only other babies in their cribs, soher only real
interaction would be with the providers. I didn't realize this before
we started, it's just a happy outcome of the situation.

[toto]

On 26 Nov 2006 16:25:12 -0800, "Lilaeyes" > wrote:

>Please give your own opinion. I feel that any parent that is looking
>for childcare should choose a license childcare center, because
>those center's have experience in children. With these centers with
>a childhood degree in college?..

Even in licensed childcare centers, there is not a requirement that
teachers have college degrees. Some teachers do have such degrees,
but many do not and the licensing requirements differ in different
states in the US. I don't know what the requirements are in other
countries.

>I feel comfortable placing my children in a center instead. A in home
>daycare, you do not even need a high school diploma. I should know
>because I was once a in home registered daycare provider & I
>dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children
>& know how to raise children.

Why then do you assume that a home daycare provider does *not* know
how to raise children or take care of them. While education *can* be
helpful, a warm, loving caregiver does not always need a college
degree. My mom didn't go to college, though she did graduate high
school and later went on to get a business degree *after* she raised
us. My dad dropped out of school in his junior year, but he was a
very good dad.

>So to say you need child care classes to become a registered
>daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
>certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record
>for the department of children and family is clean.

That's good

>But to say, opening up a family daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So
>many in home daycares are ones that want to easily make money,
>(do not really want to work for a boss and go by their rules), or
>want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion, knowing
>so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due
>to violating the regulations and rules with the department of family
>and child care unit.

OTOH, in the areas where I worked in daycare centers, often centers
also violated the rules and lost licenses. This is not specific to
home daycare. An unlicensed home may or may not be good care, btw.
It's not the license that makes a center *or* a home daycare a good
one.

>"Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in
>home daycares running, It is so easy & free to get registered &
>you do not even have to graduate from high school.

Do you ever use high school girls as babysitters? I babysat from the
time I was 12. I don't think that a high school diploma has much to
do with being able to take care of children. In fact, there are
mentally challenged parents who are very good parents and there are
college educated ones who abuse their children.

>And to say, you need to take classes in knowing how to take care
>of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my husband
>if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
>with the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you
>need to even take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats
>to me, not fair to children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,
>(being watched by a provider that has no high school diploma or a
>college dregree in childhood development)?..

But you can learn about child development from many sources. You do
not need a degree to understand this.

>Think about why more & more in home daycares are getting closed
>down by the state, but less do not by a license center that carries a
>childhood delevopment diploma in college.

Source? I haven't heard this at all.

>I believe registered daycares that are still running should take more
>courses & take classes by the child family daycare unit that gives
>providers certificate's. And when a new in home daycares opens,
>they should have proof of a high school diploma and take part
>in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones
>that can not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for
>your college in childcare development..

Well, it would be nice if the state could pay for college courses for
more childcare workers, but I don't think it's likely to happen. Most
childcare workers in daycare centers are not well paid. Many of these
while they often do have HS diplomas are still not well versed in
child development. If a center is accredited, though, they often do
provide guidance for their workers and do provide courses. The fact
is that home providers can also take advantage of courses give by
child and family services as well. And they can take courses from
nearby community colleges if they are interested. I'm not sure their
is a lot of financial aid around for this though.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[toto]

On 26 Nov 2006 18:52:53 -0800, "Lilaeyes" > wrote:

>Those centers have a B.A. Degree in early childhood development.

No, the center does NOT have a degree.

Honestly, this is silly. It *is* possible that the director has a
degree in child development, but even that is not a requirement in
many states. And the director's degree says nothing at all about the
degrees of those who actually teach in the classrooms.

For example, here in Louisiana:

http://www.daycare.com/louisiana/

For a class A license:

A. The director/director designee shall be at least 21 years of age.

B. The director/director designee shall have documentation of at least
one of the following upon date of hire as director or director
designee:

1. a bachelor's degree from an accredited college or university
with at least 12 credit hours of child development or early childhood
education and one year of experience in a licensed child care center
or comparable setting, subject to approval by the Bureau;

2. an Associate of Arts degree in child development or a closely
related area, and one year of experience in a licensed child care
center, or comparable setting, subject to approval by the Bureau;

3. a National Administrator Credential as awarded by the National
Child Care Association, and one year experience in a licensed child
care center, or comparable setting, subject to approval by the Bureau;

4. a Child Development Associate Credential (CDA) and one year of
experience in a licensed child care center, or comparable setting,
subject to approval by the Bureau;

5. diploma from a post secondary technical early childhood
education training program approved by the Board of Regents or
correspondence course approved by the Bureau and one year of
experience in a licensed child care center, or comparable setting,
subject to approval by the Bureau;

6. Three years of experience as a director or staff in a licensed
child care center, or comparable setting, subject to approval by the
Bureau; plus six credit hours in child care, child development, or
early childhood education or 90 "clock hours" of training approved by
the Bureau. Up to three credit hours or 45 clock hours may be in
management/administration education.

Note that the director has to have a BA, but only 12 hours of child
development courses within that BA.\

Worker Qualifications
Staff: Must be at least 18.

No mention at all of even a HS diploma (note that teacher aids in the
public schools in Louisian do not need a HS diploma either).

5309. REQUIRED STAFF

A. Each center shall have a qualified director who is an on-site
full-time employee at the licensed location and is responsible for
planning, managing, and controlling the center's daily activities, as
well as responding to parental concerns and ensuring that minimum
licensing requirements are met. When the director is not an on-site
full-time employee at the licensed location, there shall be a
qualified director designee who is an on-site full-time employee
responsible for planning, managing, and controlling the center's daily
activities, as well as responding to parental concerns and ensuring
that minimum licensing requirements are met.

B. When the director or director designee is not on the premises due
to a temporary absence, there shall be an individual appointed as
staff-in-charge who is at least 21 years of age. This staff shall be
given the authority to respond to emergencies, inspections/inspectors,
parental concerns, and have access to all required information.

C. If the number of children in care exceeds 42, the director/director
designee’s duties shall consist only of performing administrative
functions.

D. There shall be regularly employed staff who are capable of
fulfilling job duties of the position to which they are assigned.

E. Adequate provisions for cooking and housekeeping duties shall be
provided. These duties shall not interfere with required supervision
of children or required child/staff ratios. F. There shall be
provisions for substitute staff who are qualified to fulfill duties of
the position to which they are assigned.

G. Child care staff shall be age 18 years or older. The provider may,
however, include in the staff-child ratio, a person 16 or 17 years old
who works under the direct supervision of a qualified adult staff. No
one under age 16 shall be used as child care staff.

**************
D. CONTINUING EDUCATION

1. The director shall provide opportunities for continuing education
of staff through attendance at child care workshops or conferences,
for paid and non-paid staff who are left alone with children, or who
have supervisory or disciplinary authority over children. The child
care staff, excluding foster grandparents, shall obtain 12 clock hours
of approved training per center’s anniversary year in job related
subject areas. At least three of the 12 clock hours of training for
directors/director designees shall be in administrative issues.
Documentation shall consist of attendance records or certificates
received by staff. This is in addition to the required training hours
from the Department of Health and Hospitals, pediatric first aid and
infant/child/adult CPR. Medication administration training by a Child
Care Health Consultant may count toward fulfilling three of the
mandated 12 hours of continuing education training. All training shall
have prior approval by the Department of Social Services. Original
certificates shall be made available upon request.

This is true in many states, btw. The low pay for childcare workers
in centers virtually guarantees that many college graduates will *not*
work in such centers unless they have a reason such as bringing their
own child to the center while they work or supplementing their income
rather than supporting themselves.








--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[toto]

On 26 Nov 2006 20:00:20 -0800, "Lilaeyes" > wrote:

>Their are way to many home daycares.I hear ones that work,like at super
>markets, (that want a better paying job?)..

You don't know what you are talking about. There are good and bad in
all fields of work.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[toto]

On 26 Nov 2006 19:06:49 -0800, "Lilaeyes" > wrote:

>> I disagree. Girls in middle school give birth to kids every day. They don't
>> have an 8th grade diploma, let alone a high school diploma.
>
>And shouldn't run a home daycare for reasons why more and more in home
>dacares gets their license revoked

One of my girl scouts was illiterate. She did graduate from HS, but
there was no way she could have gone to college. She was, however,
one of the best childcare workers I've known. She was kind and
compassionate. She knew how to care for children from experience as
she had been caring for her siblings and cousins since she was 8 or 9.

I don't think that a degree or courses can make anyone a good
childcare worker.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[toto]

On 27 Nov 2006 00:02:27 -0800, wrote:

>If it was my kid, I'd want them in a licensed facility.
>
>Angel
>www.creativememories.com
>www.mtacc.net
>www.candletech.com

Having worked in several licensed facilities, I know for a fact that
the license is *not* what makes for good care.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[Jen]

"bizby40" > wrote in message
...
>


> Even if we could all afford to hire people with 4-year degrees to watch
> our infants, I'm not convinced that a degree is the answer. For infants
> and toddlers, a loving, calm, attentive, nurturing person is the best
> person for the job. Those are things that can't be taught in college.

But an interest in becoming a childcare worker often means that they already
have many of these qualities. There is also a selection criteria to gaet
into the course.

>
> But I do think they could do more to make licensure mean something.
> Perhaps they could require a course on child safety, just to make sure
> they know the basics. I'd also like to see more surprise visits at both
> home day care and at centers.

A childcare qualification involves lots of health knowledge, safety
knowledge, how to handle behaviour problems, and so many other problems that
can relate to watching children.

I believe short stays with carers could be with almost anyone, but if it's
for long hours, or long term they really need to know a lot of stuff, not
just be able to watch them and be nurturing.

Jen

[Jen]

"Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Jeff wrote:
>> "Lilaeyes" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> > Please give your own opinion. I feel that any
>> > parent that
>> > is looking for childcare should choose a license childcare center,
>> > because
>> > those center's have experience in children.
>
> I agree & taking childhood courses in childcare, college graduates have
> more underatanding in children's behavior

I agree

>>
>> I disagree. Girls in middle school give birth to kids every day. They
>> don't
>> have an 8th grade diploma, let alone a high school diploma.
>
> And shouldn't run a home daycare for reasons why more and more in home
> dacares gets their license revoked

I agree

>> However, day care centers that are not in home often are impersonal with
>> lots of staff turnover.

No true. It depends on the workers, and they have worked hard to get where
they. Many homes can be very impersonal.

>
> I rather choice a good quality child care center where their is a B.A.
> Degree in understanding children. College graduate that went ALL THE
> Way into college. Not a drop out fool that was once on welfare, &
> rushes for a lousy registration to open up a in home daycare for the
> love of getting rich!!... I rather go broke & pay OUT the good cost of
> a professional, quality center that has experience in children & a GOOD
> B.A Degree in children. I know definately my children are safe!!
>
> However Daycare centers are professional in the fields. Have good
> quality & a B.A. Degree in Child Care..

I agree

>>
>> I say go with the quality of care, not the degree.

I agree. But it's a bit difficult to judge when there's one person in their
own home possibly putting on a show. Compared to a center where there are
many different and varied adults, and strict rules and regulations.

>
> I agree with the quality of childcare, when in the fields of graduating
> with a B.A degree in child care,( or becoming a director for
> childcare).. But in homes need more courses & should take part in some
> college, in becoming more professional,not dropping out of high
> school,(being on welfare), & opening a private in home daycare ,(not
> just for the children they do not want to care for much), but for the
> money they want.It is a easy way of making good money, when good
> workers go all they way to college for the love for children not much
> the money!!.. And to say in home daycares are monitored!?.. Of course,
> these high school drop outs monitored their babysitting job for field
> investigators, (they do know field invesigators do show up
> unexpectedly, to check and see if they're running a good quality
> daycare?).. I am not saying that when a provider has no degree, they
> are not good quality daycare. But everyday,more & more in home daycares
> are getting close, due to poor quality care. So in another words, the
> state should make it more difficult for in home daycares to get their
> license. So much child abuse & neglect happens alot more in private
> home daycares.. They need to be educated more & take part in childhood
> in college..

I agree

>> > With these centers with a
>> > childhood degree in college?.. I feel comfortable placing my children
>> > in a
>> > center instead. A in home daycare, you do not even need a high school
>> > diploma.
>> > I should know because I was once a in home registered daycare provider
>> > & I
>> > dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children &
>> > know
>> > how to raise children. So to say you need child care classes to become
>> > a
>> > registered daycare provider?. That is so simple. I already have a CPR
>> > certificate for children because i'm a worried mother & my record for
>> > the
>> > department of children and family is clean. But to say, opening up a
>> > family
>> > daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So many in home daycares are ones
>> > that want
>> > to easily make money, (do not really want to work for a boss and go by
>> > their
>> > rules), or want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion,
>> > knowing
>> > so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due to
>> > violating
>> > the regulations and rules with the department of family and child care
>> > unit.
>> > "Child neglect and abuse". Thats why their are so many, many in home
>> > daycares
>> > running, It is so easy & free to get registered & you do not even have
>> > to
>> > graduate from high school.And to say, you need to take classes in
>> > knowing how
>> > to take care of children?..I wouldn't wanted children myself with my
>> > husband
>> > if I didn't know how to raise children.. All you need is a clean record
>> > with
>> > the Children's Daycare Unit that grants you a registration, & you need
>> > to even
>> > take 6-9 courses while running a in home daycare. Thats to me, not fair
>> > to
>> > children that are at risk. Being put in a home daycare,(being watched
>> > by a
>> > provider that has no high school diploma or a college dregree in
>> > childhood
>> > development)?.. Think about why more & more in home daycares are
>> > getting
>> > closed down by the state, but less do not by a license center that
>> > carries a
>> > childhood delevopment diploma in college. I believe registered daycares
>> > that
>> > are still running should take more courses & take classes by the child
>> > family
>> > daycare unit that gives providers certificate's. And when a new in home
>> >
>> > daycares opens, they should have proof of a high school diploma and
>> > take part
>> > in college for childhood delevopment, like 6 to 9 months. And ones that
>> > can
>> > not afford college can get VSAC so the state can pay for your college
>> > in
>> > childcare development..

I agree

Jen

[Jen]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>>
>> I agree & taking childhood courses in childcare, college graduates have
>> more underatanding in children's behavior
>
> You can't learn how to handle children in class. You need hands on
> experience.

What about all the posts asking about behaviour problems etc all the time in
this group? What about all the great books people keep refering to. People
have learnt a lot from good advice, they then bring those ideas to the
children. There is a lot of hands on experience in childcare courses, there
are many short visits to different childrens settings, and there is also
plenty of work experience where the students are gradually integrated into
being a proper staff member. They need to learn the best ways of doing
things from somewhere.

>
>>>
>>> I disagree. Girls in middle school give birth to kids every day. They
>>> don't
>>> have an 8th grade diploma, let alone a high school diploma.

And do you really think they would be great bringing up other kids? You
think their own kids are going to be great?

>> That of course would keep daycares open not
>> getting closed. Like for instance, those couples that were jailed for
>> porno, (running a in home daycare and taking porn photo's of their
>> daycare children).That happened in Florida??.. It was on the news???
>
> That was an isolated event. The same thing can happen in a daycare center,
> as well.

Less likely because there are so many different adults around.

>>> However, day care centers that are not in home often are impersonal with
>>> lots of staff turnover.

Not always, and most here strive to make them as homely as possible.

>>
>> I rather choice a good quality child care center where their is a B.A.
>> Degree in understanding children.
>
> I never heard of a BA degree in understanding children. I heard of a BA in
> early childhood education, which is different. A lot of adults understand
> children, without having a degree.

She just didn't know the proper term. No need to be nasty.

>
> Second, if you have someone who has no money (like someone on welfare) and
> opens a business, more power to her (or him). That's one way to get off
> welfare.

But should that make them good at looking after kids?

>> However Daycare centers are professional in the fields. Have good
>> quality & a B.A. Degree in Child Care..
>
> They have more training. However, it is more important that the people
> love children. Having a degree in early childhood education is not as
> important, IMHO.

I couldn't imagine too many people going throught all that studying and
training if they don't love kids to begin with.

Jen

[Jen]

"bizby40" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Daycare centers have been known to have poor quality of care, too.
>
> When my daughter was in pre-school, the school lost a child. The kids had
> been outside playing, and when they walked back inside, the teachers
> failed to realize that one child didn't come in. The school never did
> notice her missing. It so happened that a man who was walking with his
> son saw the girl wandering by the side of the road alone. This would be
> bad under any circumstances, but was worse than usual as this is one of
> those winding country roads with no shoulders, no sidewalks, and cars that
> routinely top 60mph.
>
> The man returned the child, the parents withdrew her, and we other parents
> might never have even found out except that a month later the school got a
> call from the newspaper. The parents, frustrated at the cover-up, had
> called them. The school desperately tried to contact all of us parents
> that day to explain the situation. The story came out the next day.
> According to the story, the parents had all been advised, and the school
> had taken steps to ensure that it would never happen again. There was no
> mention of the fact that the school had waited over a month to do this,
> and probably would never have done anything if they hadn't been exposed.
>
> Just an isolated incident of course, but a graphic and personal example of
> how even licensed day care centers offer no real guarantees. I remember
> another incident from the news. A mom was late picking up her child, and
> when she got there, the school was closed and locked. Hearing her child
> crying inside, she broke a window and found him alone in the building in a
> crib.


I definitely know for a fact that can't happen in childcares here. There
are childproof gates and doors at every opening, and parents, as well as a
carer has to sign a book when a child arrives and leaves.

Jen

[Jen]

"bizby40" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jeff" > wrote in message
> ink.net...
>> Daycare centers have been known to have poor quality of care, too.
>
> When my daughter was in pre-school, the school lost a child. The kids had
> been outside playing, and when they walked back inside, the teachers
> failed to realize that one child didn't come in. The school never did
> notice her missing. It so happened that a man who was walking with his
> son saw the girl wandering by the side of the road alone. This would be
> bad under any circumstances, but was worse than usual as this is one of
> those winding country roads with no shoulders, no sidewalks, and cars that
> routinely top 60mph.
>
> The man returned the child, the parents withdrew her, and we other parents
> might never have even found out except that a month later the school got a
> call from the newspaper. The parents, frustrated at the cover-up, had
> called them. The school desperately tried to contact all of us parents
> that day to explain the situation. The story came out the next day.
> According to the story, the parents had all been advised, and the school
> had taken steps to ensure that it would never happen again. There was no
> mention of the fact that the school had waited over a month to do this,
> and probably would never have done anything if they hadn't been exposed.
>
> Just an isolated incident of course, but a graphic and personal example of
> how even licensed day care centers offer no real guarantees. I remember
> another incident from the news. A mom was late picking up her child, and
> when she got there, the school was closed and locked. Hearing her child
> crying inside, she broke a window and found him alone in the building in a
> crib.


That sort of thing is terrible and the centre should be dealt with. That's
why I think strict regulations are so good.

Jen

[Jen]

"Jeff" > wrote in message
ink.net...
>
> My cousin was left on the bus in kindergarten. He was sleeping on the
> *front* seat. The bus driver went to the back of the bus, turned the "no
> child left behind sign" that indicates the bus has been searched for left
> behind kids, and left the bus. Some search. When the kid did not show up
> at home, the parents called the school, who called the bus company who
> found the kid sleeping.
>
> And these are licensed people.
>
> And in public schools, the teachers are also licensed. Yet, in NYC, about
> 1/2 the kids fail to graduate high school. Just because you have licensed
> professionals, you don't necessarily have a good admistrative system or
> proper support.


These people should be sacked. They're not doing their job properly.
That's the beauty of paid staff, you can sack them if they don't do their
job. And if they're just not good at it, they aren't likely to get another
job in the same field.

Jen

[Jen]

"toto" > wrote in message
...
> On 26 Nov 2006 19:06:49 -0800, "Lilaeyes" > wrote:
>
>>> I disagree. Girls in middle school give birth to kids every day. They
>>> don't
>>> have an 8th grade diploma, let alone a high school diploma.
>>
>>And shouldn't run a home daycare for reasons why more and more in home
>>dacares gets their license revoked
>
> One of my girl scouts was illiterate. She did graduate from HS, but
> there was no way she could have gone to college. She was, however,
> one of the best childcare workers I've known. She was kind and
> compassionate. She knew how to care for children from experience as
> she had been caring for her siblings and cousins since she was 8 or 9.
>
> I don't think that a degree or courses can make anyone a good
> childcare worker.


It doesn't make them good, but it can make them better.

Jen

[Jen]

"toto" > wrote in message
...
> On 27 Nov 2006 00:02:27 -0800, wrote:
>
>>If it was my kid, I'd want them in a licensed facility.
>>
>>Angel
>>www.creativememories.com
>>www.mtacc.net
>>www.candletech.com
>
> Having worked in several licensed facilities, I know for a fact that
> the license is *not* what makes for good care.


Having worked in several licensed facilities myself, I know for a fact that
it's not what makes good care, but it's certainly better than any old
babysitter, or homecare. But I believe the best place for a child is with
it's mother (or father).

Jen

[bizby40]

"Jen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "bizby40" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Even if we could all afford to hire people with 4-year degrees to
>> watch our infants, I'm not convinced that a degree is the answer.
>> For infants and toddlers, a loving, calm, attentive, nurturing
>> person is the best person for the job. Those are things that can't
>> be taught in college.
>
> But an interest in becoming a childcare worker often means that they
> already have many of these qualities. There is also a selection
> criteria to gaet into the course.

I'm not saying that a degree is a bad thing -- just that the most
important skills, IMO, aren't things that can be taught in school.

But you also have to remember the context of the discussion. The OP
seemed to be claiming that day care centers are always better than
home centers because the center licenses require the teachers to have
degrees.

I have had good and bad experiences with both types of child care, so
I strongly disagree that centers are automatically better.

Bizby

[bizby40]

"Jen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "bizby40" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> When my daughter was in pre-school, the school lost a child.
>
> I definitely know for a fact that can't happen in childcares here.
> There are childproof gates and doors at every opening, and parents,
> as well as a carer has to sign a book when a child arrives and
> leaves.

That's in all centers? Not just the one you use?

That center did put procedures in place after the incident. They
built a set of steps down from the back door so that the kids could
get from the class to the playground without ever leaving a fenced
area. And the teachers started taking a clipboard out with them.
They'd check the name of every kid they took out, and then check them
again on the way back in.

I took my son to a different daycare though, and it was back to lining
the kids up and marching them across open grass to the fenced in area,
and no lists. They never lost a kid though.

One advantage that the second place had over the first was that it was
pre-school only, so all the kids were there from 8:30 - 12. As long
as you knew how many had shown up in the morning, all you had to do
was count. The first place was a combo pre-school/day care. Some
kids came as early as 7:30, others showed up at 9:00 for pre-school.
Some were picked up at noon when pre-school was over, and others at
1:00 when "half-day" was over, and others throughout the afternoon
when their parents got off work, some as late as 6:00. You might take
10 kids out to the playground, but only bring 6 back because the
others had been picked up. It's easy to see how the teacher got
confused.

That's why I agree with Jeff. It wasn't the fact that the child was
lost that was so bad (though it was very scary!) it was the fact that
they tried to cover it up and told some flat out lies to the paper,
and almost certainly to us too.

Bizby

[Jeff]

"Jen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "bizby40" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Jeff" > wrote in message
>> ink.net...
<...>

> I definitely know for a fact that can't happen in childcares here. There
> are childproof gates and doors at every opening, and parents, as well as a
> carer has to sign a book when a child arrives and leaves.

Yeah, it can. No system is full-proof. I would hope part of the system is
checking every room and closet for kids before going home for the evening.
And the kids might not be daycare kids (perhaps a neighborhood kid came in
behind some parents and fell asleep on a couch). Or two parents are picking
up their triplets, sign for the three kids, but each parent takes one,
thinking the other parent is taking the third.

Yeah, these are weird and rare events. But these sort of events do happen.

And in NYC, I see preschool age kids walking down the sidewalk to a park or
in a park (there is big park in the central part of Manhatten) holding
hands. I can easily see how a child can be misplaced, which is why there
must be steps to make sure it doesn't happen and a plan for the rare times
it does.

Saying something can't happen is almost the first step to make sure it does.

Jeff
>
> Jen
>

[Jen]

"bizby40" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jen" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "bizby40" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> When my daughter was in pre-school, the school lost a child.
>>
>> I definitely know for a fact that can't happen in childcares here. There
>> are childproof gates and doors at every opening, and parents, as well as
>> a carer has to sign a book when a child arrives and leaves.
>
> That's in all centers? Not just the one you use?

Definitely. It's part of the regulations every childcare center has to
follow.

>
> That center did put procedures in place after the incident. They built a
> set of steps down from the back door so that the kids could get from the
> class to the playground without ever leaving a fenced area. And the
> teachers started taking a clipboard out with them. They'd check the name
> of every kid they took out, and then check them again on the way back in.
>
> I took my son to a different daycare though, and it was back to lining the
> kids up and marching them across open grass to the fenced in area, and no
> lists. They never lost a kid though.
>
> One advantage that the second place had over the first was that it was
> pre-school only, so all the kids were there from 8:30 - 12.

All childcare centres, whether they have preschool as well, or not, have
this rule

As long
> as you knew how many had shown up in the morning, all you had to do was
> count. The first place was a combo pre-school/day care. Some kids came
> as early as 7:30, others showed up at 9:00 for pre-school. Some were
> picked up at noon when pre-school was over, and others at 1:00 when
> "half-day" was over, and others throughout the afternoon when their
> parents got off work, some as late as 6:00. You might take 10 kids out to
> the playground, but only bring 6 back because the others had been picked
> up. It's easy to see how the teacher got confused.

AFAIK all preschools have the same rule here too. No kids can leave a
building or fenced area on hteir own

>
> That's why I agree with Jeff. It wasn't the fact that the child was lost
> that was so bad (though it was very scary!) it was the fact that they
> tried to cover it up and told some flat out lies to the paper, and almost
> certainly to us too.


Yeah that's just terrible

Jen

[bizby40]

"Jen" > wrote in message
...
>
> "bizby40" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Jen" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "bizby40" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> When my daughter was in pre-school, the school lost a child.
>>>
>>> I definitely know for a fact that can't happen in childcares here.
>>> There are childproof gates and doors at every opening, and
>>> parents, as well as a carer has to sign a book when a child
>>> arrives and leaves.
>>
>> That's in all centers? Not just the one you use?
>
> Definitely. It's part of the regulations every childcare center has
> to follow.

I'm trying to think if any of the places I've used has had sign-in and
sign-out. The school my son went to might have...but I don't think
so. The church nursery had that, and the gym nursery, but I think
that's because they had random kids there and the workers might not
know the parents.

Just to be clear though, the child that got lost did not wander out of
an unguarded door. The kids had to walk from the fenced-in playground
around the corner of the building, along the sidewalk, and to the
front door. The teachers always lined them up to do this, and the
kids were good about getting and staying in line. In this case
though, one of the girls lagged, and the teacher didn't notice, so
when they went in the door, she was left outside. She was found long
before her parents came to pick her up. So neither of the two
precautions you mentioned would have prevented this particular
incident from happening.

If the regulations also specify that the kids are never to be walked
outside in an unfenced area, that might have done it.

Bizby

[Jen]

"bizby40" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Jen" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "bizby40" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> "Jen" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> "bizby40" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>> When my daughter was in pre-school, the school lost a child.
>>>>
>>>> I definitely know for a fact that can't happen in childcares here.
>>>> There are childproof gates and doors at every opening, and parents, as
>>>> well as a carer has to sign a book when a child arrives and leaves.
>>>
>>> That's in all centers? Not just the one you use?
>>
>> Definitely. It's part of the regulations every childcare center has to
>> follow.
>
> I'm trying to think if any of the places I've used has had sign-in and
> sign-out. The school my son went to might have...but I don't think so.
> The church nursery had that, and the gym nursery, but I think that's
> because they had random kids there and the workers might not know the
> parents.
>
> Just to be clear though, the child that got lost did not wander out of an
> unguarded door.

"The kids had to walk from the fenced-in playground
> around the corner of the building, along the sidewalk, and to the front
> door. "

This would never be allowed at all. They can't go out of fenced- in or
locked doors.

The teachers always lined them up to do this, and the
> kids were good about getting and staying in line. In this case though,
> one of the girls lagged, and the teacher didn't notice, so when they went
> in the door, she was left outside. She was found long before her parents
> came to pick her up. So neither of the two precautions you mentioned
> would have prevented this particular incident from happening.
>
> If the regulations also specify that the kids are never to be walked
> outside in an unfenced area, that might have done it.


Yeah, that's what I mean, there is never allowed to be a time when a child
is not behind a locked door or fence. Access to playgrounds are through the
doors to the centre.

You'd be amazed at some of the regulations. They even cover all sorts of
stuff about the buildings themselves even. I can't remember what they were
now, but there weer things about the room sizes etc. A lot of childcare
centres weren't happy about the regulations then, and now they're even
stricter.

Jen

[Jen]

"bizby40" > wrote in message
...

>> But an interest in becoming a childcare worker often means that they
>> already have many of these qualities. There is also a selection criteria
>> to gaet into the course.
>
> I'm not saying that a degree is a bad thing -- just that the most
> important skills, IMO, aren't things that can be taught in school.
>


I agree with what you're saying, and definitely there could be some
wonderful home carers. But in general I believe that to do a childcare
course, a person would have a natural affinity with kids, and therefore have
a lot of the qualities you're talking about. And a person who has knowledge
of many different things associated with children and childcare (eg
qualified) is better than just a nurturing, loving person.

And of course, there is always a selection criteria in the interview to get
the job in the first place. And a centre that doesn't have staff that the
parents like, isn't going to last too long.

Without the qualifications the person is just a babysitter, good or bad.

Jen

[Anne Rogers]

> "here" in the US varies by state. Each state makes its own regulations,
> and within the state there may be different districts. How well
> regulations are adhered to may depend upon the quality of the local
> regulators.

though, to my knowledge, there is no state as strict as the UK and some
states are very lax

> One of the advantages I've found with DD at an inhome daycare rather
> than a center is that she's with kids of multiple ages - a couple of
> school aged kids who come after school (the children of the sitter), a
> 1yo, 2yo, another older baby and occassionally a 4yr old. While that
> brings certain problems - such as exposure to school-germs, that
> interaction with older kids is *really* good for her. She's a social
> kid, and really enjoys the stimulation from the other kids. She's doing
> some things more advanced for her age because she's learning from them.
> It's kind of like having older sibs around :). In a center, she'd be in
> a room with only other babies in their cribs, soher only real
> interaction would be with the providers. I didn't realize this before
> we started, it's just a happy outcome of the situation.

also something I didn't think of, but appreciated about inhome day care, our
church is so large, that they divide up the nursery care on Sunday mornings
to half year groups, which means my DS isn't even in the same class as other
kids he will start kindergarten with in a couple of years time, he's in the
middle of his 6 month chunk, but is pretty verbal for his age (he's been put
in the 6 months above in preschool), whilst this is not a problem for an
hour on a Sunday, it reminds me what it could be like in daycare.

Cheers

Anne

[Rosalie B.]

"Jen" > wrote:

>
>"bizby40" > wrote in message
...
>
>>> But an interest in becoming a childcare worker often means that they
>>> already have many of these qualities. There is also a selection criteria
>>> to gaet into the course.
>>
>> I'm not saying that a degree is a bad thing -- just that the most
>> important skills, IMO, aren't things that can be taught in school.
>>
>I agree with what you're saying, and definitely there could be some
>wonderful home carers. But in general I believe that to do a childcare
>course, a person would have a natural affinity with kids, and therefore have
>a lot of the qualities you're talking about. And a person who has knowledge
>of many different things associated with children and childcare (eg
>qualified) is better than just a nurturing, loving person.
>
>And of course, there is always a selection criteria in the interview to get
>the job in the first place. And a centre that doesn't have staff that the
>parents like, isn't going to last too long.
>
>Without the qualifications the person is just a babysitter, good or bad.
>
I personally think - and not just on this issue, but in general - that
there is too much emphasis now on paper qualifications. That is
checking off the courses required or the degree required. This is
mostly (again MO) to exclude people from applying for jobs that they
are otherwise perfectly qualified to do.

This has two subsidiary results IME *other* *than* the primary problem
of excluding people from doing jobs that they are well suited for.

1) People who are not well suited for the job, but who have the paper
qualifications will be doing the jobs instead of the people who should
be doing them.

2) The training required will become a business and will be watered
down in order to get as much money as possible from people who really
want or need that job.

Myself as an example. I could perfectly well have become an MD
(medical doctor) had I wanted to. I was a zoology major in college,
and I think I'm definitely smart enough to have passed medical school.
But I would not be a good doctor. I just don't like listening to
people talk about their health.

I was a swim team coach and I had absolutely no paper qualifications
for that AT ALL. I never swam competitively. But I think I was a
good coach, and one of the swimmers on my team went to the Barcelona
Olympics (he came to me when he was 6, so he had other coaches and he
had a great drive and determination)

I have also been involved in those mandated courses for asbestos
removers and talked to a number of the people doing that work.
Mandating courses does not do much to actually ensure that people are
trained.

[toto]

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:16:31 -0500, "bizby40" >
wrote:

>If the regulations also specify that the kids are never to be walked
>outside in an unfenced area, that might have done it.

Every center I worked in had two teachers with each class. One had
the front of the line and the other had the back of the line. While
that doesn't mean a child *can't* be missed, it does mean someone will
be aware of it quickly.

We had children who were picked up by special ed teachers from class
and at one time, a teacher came and got a child on the playground
without telling us. We were frantic. We were always counting to make
sure we had everyone if we were not inside the classroom.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[toto]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 05:07:58 GMT, "Jen" >
wrote:

>This would never be allowed at all. They can't go out of fenced- in or
>locked doors.

Interesting. Most of the centers I worked in walked children to
nearby parks or even to the public library or various other places for
activities. I can't imagine not being able to utilize the community
as a resource for learning. We walked to a nearby bank and the
children learned about banking. We walked to the bread store and
the children got to knead dough and take some home to bake. We
walked to the library for their story time once a month. At the last
preschool I worked in the playground we used was a park across the
street, not a fenced in area.

Interstingly, while the US seems less restrictive than Australia from
what people are saying, Sweden and Switzerland are even less
restrictive and you will see children playing outside with no adult
supervision on the center grounds from what I understand.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[Ruth Baltopoulos]

bizby40 wrote:

> I'm not saying that a degree is a bad thing -- just that the most
> important skills, IMO, aren't things that can be taught in school.

Family Child Care Providers in Massachusetts have been
having an ongoing discussion about just this, as a new
initiative (Early Education for All) makes its way through
the political system. Our argument is not that a degree is
a bad thing, but that using it as the sole litmus test for
quality is flawed.


> But you also have to remember the context of the discussion. The OP
> seemed to be claiming that day care centers are always better than
> home centers because the center licenses require the teachers to have
> degrees.

This is a common misconception, along with the safety in
numbers theory. It works both ways IMO and IME.

> I have had good and bad experiences with both types of child care, so
> I strongly disagree that centers are automatically better.

My feelings exactly. Family child care is an *option*, as
is Center based or Preschool based, all running the gamut of
quality. If one is interested in their child being in a
setting the emulates the home (heck, it is a home) and
spending their days with one (or possibly two) caregivers
that remain constant, then this would be the choice.
Finding the one that suits your needs, falls within your
comfort zone, provides the required stimulation and program,
and matches your philosophies is the next challenge.
--
Ruth

[Ruth Baltopoulos]

Jen wrote:

> I agree with what you're saying, and definitely there could be some
> wonderful home carers. But in general I believe that to do a childcare
> course, a person would have a natural affinity with kids, and therefore have
> a lot of the qualities you're talking about. And a person who has knowledge
> of many different things associated with children and childcare (eg
> qualified) is better than just a nurturing, loving person.

I respectfully disagree. A nurturing, loving person without
a degree can be just as stimulating and knowledgeable when
working with preschool age children. This is a fallacy that
is bandied about often in many circles. Their approach may
be different (although not necessarily) and certainly not
inferior.

The nurturing, loving person probably also has the ability
to read, and resources abound on child care and age
appropriate activities. They may have worked in different
settings during their lifetime which provides then with
wonderful experience which is then applied in the home care
environment.

> And of course, there is always a selection criteria in the interview to get
> the job in the first place. And a centre that doesn't have staff that the
> parents like, isn't going to last too long.

Not necessarily. I have been in this business for 20 years,
and am continually surprised at some of the care I have seen
by certain providers, degrees notwithstanding.

> Without the qualifications the person is just a babysitter, good or bad.

That statement is hopelessly mired in ignorance and bias.
--
Ruth

[Ruth Baltopoulos]

Rosalie B. wrote:

> I personally think - and not just on this issue, but in general - that
> there is too much emphasis now on paper qualifications. That is
> checking off the courses required or the degree required. This is
> mostly (again MO) to exclude people from applying for jobs that they
> are otherwise perfectly qualified to do.

> This has two subsidiary results IME *other* *than* the primary problem
> of excluding people from doing jobs that they are well suited for.

> 1) People who are not well suited for the job, but who have the paper
> qualifications will be doing the jobs instead of the people who should
> be doing them.

> 2) The training required will become a business and will be watered
> down in order to get as much money as possible from people who really
> want or need that job. [..]

Nice post, Rosalie. I have such tremendous resistance to
this 'degree is all' thinking. I completely agree that
pursuing one's education is important, and raised my
daughters to view college as a natural step after high
school, but fail to grasp the mindset which then makes it
paramount to all else.

Learning should never cease, but that does not equate to
measurement in the form of a document. It is amazingly
narrow to take one small segment of experience and hold it
up as the jewel in one's crown, when in reality it may
simply be a stepping stone on the pathway of their life.
--
Ruth

[Stephanie]

"Ruth Baltopoulos" > wrote in message
news:pcibh.19068$mM1.1971@trndny08...
> Jen wrote:
>
>> I agree with what you're saying, and definitely there could be some
>> wonderful home carers. But in general I believe that to do a childcare
>> course, a person would have a natural affinity with kids, and therefore
>> have a lot of the qualities you're talking about. And a person who has
>> knowledge of many different things associated with children and childcare
>> (eg qualified) is better than just a nurturing, loving person.
>
> I respectfully disagree. A nurturing, loving person without a degree can
> be just as stimulating and knowledgeable when working with preschool age
> children. This is a fallacy that is bandied about often in many circles.
> Their approach may be different (although not necessarily) and certainly
> not inferior.
>


There seems to be a sense with some people that learning can only be
achieved in school. I have a pal who is a degreed early childhood educator.
When I started she handed me the mother stack of books. Over the course of
the last year I have learned a TON. And my kids are thriving. I got some
major ego boosting feedback at a recent workshop when I spoke to the
presenter, a decades experienced and Masters educator, after class. I told
him that in 6 months a 5yo raging tantrumer, diaper wearing, learned
helplessness, non-speaker was

- speaking, learning colors, numbers and counting.
- was starting to *really try* and take pride in accomplishing as well as
being part of the team that is our daycare,
- fully self toileting
- controlling his temper and asking for help to identify solutions to
problems, and coming up with solutions on his own.

I was looking for help on one remaining issue. When I told him that this was
what was achieved, he was awe struck. He basically told me that whatever I
am doing, keep doing it. And when I figured it out, let him know!

My point I think is the same as yours. Getting your learning in classrooms
is one way to get your learning.


> The nurturing, loving person probably also has the ability to read, and
> resources abound on child care and age appropriate activities. They may
> have worked in different settings during their lifetime which provides
> then with wonderful experience which is then applied in the home care
> environment.
>
>> And of course, there is always a selection criteria in the interview to
>> get the job in the first place. And a centre that doesn't have staff
>> that the parents like, isn't going to last too long.
>
> Not necessarily. I have been in this business for 20 years, and am
> continually surprised at some of the care I have seen by certain
> providers, degrees notwithstanding.
>


I have found the good, the bad and the ugly and the fantastic but it has not
seemed to depend one whit whether a home or a center. This is in my short
5year stint as a parent.

>> Without the qualifications the person is just a babysitter, good or bad.
>
> That statement is hopelessly mired in ignorance and bias.


Yes indeed.

> --
> Ruth

[Banty]

In article <pcibh.19068$mM1.1971@trndny08>, Ruth Baltopoulos says...
>
>Jen wrote:
>
>> I agree with what you're saying, and definitely there could be some
>> wonderful home carers. But in general I believe that to do a childcare
>> course, a person would have a natural affinity with kids, and therefore have
>> a lot of the qualities you're talking about. And a person who has knowledge
>> of many different things associated with children and childcare (eg
>> qualified) is better than just a nurturing, loving person.
>
>I respectfully disagree. A nurturing, loving person without
>a degree can be just as stimulating and knowledgeable when
>working with preschool age children. This is a fallacy that
>is bandied about often in many circles. Their approach may
>be different (although not necessarily) and certainly not
>inferior.
>
>The nurturing, loving person probably also has the ability
>to read, and resources abound on child care and age
>appropriate activities. They may have worked in different
>settings during their lifetime which provides then with
>wonderful experience which is then applied in the home care
>environment.
>
>> And of course, there is always a selection criteria in the interview to get
>> the job in the first place. And a centre that doesn't have staff that the
>> parents like, isn't going to last too long.
>
>Not necessarily. I have been in this business for 20 years,
>and am continually surprised at some of the care I have seen
>by certain providers, degrees notwithstanding.
>
>> Without the qualifications the person is just a babysitter, good or bad.
>
>That statement is hopelessly mired in ignorance and bias.

I had my son in a family day care, and to my way of thinking, the
experience/qualification aspect spoke in favor of family day care over centers.

Never mind the degrees that a daycare center owner/operator/manager/planner may
need to have, the people who would care for my child every day are *not*
required to have a college degree. At least not in my state (and I'd be
surprised if it were true anywhere - that would make the cost of a daycare
center quite expensive).

A person who sets up a home daycare, however, *whatever* her status is w.r.t.
having a degree, has demonstrated the wherewithall to set up her home by certain
codes, has registered/certified with the state, researched rates/costs, has
advertised her availability - all the things one does to set up a business, even
quite a small one. While the people daily caring for my child in a daycare
center only showed that they can fill out a job application and show up as far
as I know.

So, leaving aside for a moment how a person relates to a child, etc., just as
far as having their head screwed on straight and dealing with stuff, I'm voting
for home care. (Now, that doesn't mean that any particular daycare center
worker isn't great and competent and all that - just that her having that job
doesn't necessarily show that.)

Add to this that a home daycare provider is there every day, and I see her
(usually her) every day, and we form a rapport and a relationship, and there's
no such advantage to the providers in a daycare center, to me hands down the
best person(s) would be found in the family care setting. Even if the turnover
rate is low in a daycare center, there's still the matter of workers being
present on different days of the week.

Now of course, buyer beware - the parent needs to have some judgement, and some
cofidence in that judgement, to interveiw, visit, check, and vet the person who
will be hired. And choosing someone with a temprament and philosophy that fits.
But going on qualification alone (and leaving behind this fascination with
having someone with a degree somewhere around...), family care wins out in my
view.

Banty

[cjra]

Rosalie B. wrote:
> "Jen" > wrote:
>
> >
> >"bizby40" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >>> But an interest in becoming a childcare worker often means that they
> >>> already have many of these qualities. There is also a selection criteria
> >>> to gaet into the course.
> >>
> >> I'm not saying that a degree is a bad thing -- just that the most
> >> important skills, IMO, aren't things that can be taught in school.
> >>
> >I agree with what you're saying, and definitely there could be some
> >wonderful home carers. But in general I believe that to do a childcare
> >course, a person would have a natural affinity with kids, and therefore have
> >a lot of the qualities you're talking about. And a person who has knowledge
> >of many different things associated with children and childcare (eg
> >qualified) is better than just a nurturing, loving person.
> >
> >And of course, there is always a selection criteria in the interview to get
> >the job in the first place. And a centre that doesn't have staff that the
> >parents like, isn't going to last too long.
> >
> >Without the qualifications the person is just a babysitter, good or bad.
> >
> I personally think - and not just on this issue, but in general - that
> there is too much emphasis now on paper qualifications. That is
> checking off the courses required or the degree required. This is
> mostly (again MO) to exclude people from applying for jobs that they
> are otherwise perfectly qualified to do.
>
> This has two subsidiary results IME *other* *than* the primary problem
> of excluding people from doing jobs that they are well suited for.
>
> 1) People who are not well suited for the job, but who have the paper
> qualifications will be doing the jobs instead of the people who should
> be doing them.

I agree that a degree isn't everything, and respect should be given to
experience in training. However, as a PhD working in a field were no
degree *was* required in the past (at least a BS is required now, and
MPH prefered), the difference between those who were grandfathered in
and those who come with degrees is significant. Even a BS is not enough
because there are rarely concentrations in this subject at that level.
I am tired of teaching people the fundamentals of this field just to
get to a starting point for on the job training. We *all* need on the
job training, but if you're starting from scratch, it is so much more
work for the staff. I don't get paid to teach this and I'm already
doing too many jobs.

we have one person who really is very good at what he does. he has no
college degree, but has been in the dept 20 yrs, has worked his way up
and has learned a lot. I do go to him for a lot of info and highly
respect his skills. However, he is lacking significantly in certain
elements - he can do the practical stuff, but really was never taught
some fundamentals, and he lacks writing and organizational skills
(which are critical to the work we do). As a result, I end up doing all
of that as well, and making a paper trail for him. 10 yrs ago it wasn't
such a big deal, today it is due to a variety of outside issues. Again,
I highly respect his skills and experience, but lacking certain
components of the education required for this job make it difficult for
many others.

I don't think a degree is required for everything, and I don't think a
childcare person who is not a teacher needs a degree - they do need
training incertain topics, but that's obtained without a degree. I
htink apprenticeships are good things. However, there are some fields
in which having the educational background makes all the difference.

[Caledonia]

Jen wrote:

> Without the qualifications the person is just a babysitter, good or bad.

Yikes -- I've been found out.

But seriously, most *parents* I know aren't steeped in early child
development and education, and degrees notwithstanding (and heck, how
does a PhD in chemistry really help someone in the context of caring
for a little one, beyond thinking that a tantrum can't be as bad as a
thesis defense?), a lot of learning happens on the fly, or derived from
the experiences of others (either gained from books, conversations, or
m.k :). Or are you saying that most parents are just babysitters, good
or bad?

Caledonia

[Jen]

"Rosalie B." > wrote in message
...
> "Jen" > wrote:
>
>
> Myself as an example. I could perfectly well have become an MD
> (medical doctor) had I wanted to. I was a zoology major in college,
> and I think I'm definitely smart enough to have passed medical school.
> But I would not be a good doctor. I just don't like listening to
> people talk about their health.

That's my point. People who have the mindset to become childcare workers
already have a lot of the natural talents for the job.

Jen

[Jen]

"Rosalie B." > wrote in message
...

> 1) People who are not well suited for the job, but who have the paper
> qualifications will be doing the jobs instead of the people who should
> be doing them.

No. They are the babysitters.

>
> 2) The training required will become a business and will be watered
> down in order to get as much money as possible from people who really
> want or need that job.

No. Too many regulations, etc.

>
> Myself as an example. I could perfectly well have become an MD
> (medical doctor) had I wanted to. I was a zoology major in college,
> and I think I'm definitely smart enough to have passed medical school.
> But I would not be a good doctor. I just don't like listening to
> people talk about their health.


My point exactly. If you don't have the natural abilities you wouldn't do
it.

Jen

[Jen]

"toto" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 05:07:58 GMT, "Jen" >
> wrote:
>
>>This would never be allowed at all. They can't go out of fenced- in or
>>locked doors.
>
> Interesting. Most of the centers I worked in walked children to
> nearby parks or even to the public library or various other places for
> activities. I can't imagine not being able to utilize the community
> as a resource for learning. We walked to a nearby bank and the
> children learned about banking. We walked to the bread store and
> the children got to knead dough and take some home to bake. We
> walked to the library for their story time once a month. At the last
> preschool I worked in the playground we used was a park across the
> street, not a fenced in area.

Special outings are sometimes done, but include a lot of paperwork, and are
rarely done. More commonly are visitors to the childcare. One childcare
cantre used to have Santa visit once a year.

>
> Interstingly, while the US seems less restrictive than Australia from
> what people are saying, Sweden and Switzerland are even less
> restrictive and you will see children playing outside with no adult
> supervision on the center grounds from what I understand.


Jen

[toto]

On 29 Nov 2006 09:13:03 -0800, Banty > wrote:

>But going on qualification alone (and leaving behind this fascination with
>having someone with a degree somewhere around...), family care wins out in my
>view.
>
>Banty

I don't think that this follows any more than the OP's ideas did.

I think that children of different temperaments need different kinds
of care.

I think that children of different ages and stages have different
needs.

Generalizing is difficult, but ime, homecare is much better for
children under the age of 2 (sometimes to 3). Children over 3 often
do better in group daycare settings because the routines are easier
for them to follow. Still this will also depend on the personality
of the child as well.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[toto]

On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 21:17:59 GMT, "Jen" >
wrote:

>Special outings are sometimes done, but include a lot of paperwork, and are
>rarely done. More commonly are visitors to the childcare. One childcare
>cantre used to have Santa visit once a year.

I'm not talking about special outings though. We walked children
around the neighborhood frequently. Sometimes we did nature walks and
looked for leaves or acorns. There was not a lot of paperwork
involved in our library trips either since parents knew at the
beginning of the year when they would be. These were not *field
trips* on a bus or in a car, but walking trips.


--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

[cjra]

toto wrote:

> Interstingly, while the US seems less restrictive than Australia from
> what people are saying, Sweden and Switzerland are even less
> restrictive and you will see children playing outside with no adult
> supervision on the center grounds from what I understand.

I've not see childcare centers in Switzerland (DH's friends and family
all use in home care), but that wouldn't surprise me. People there are
much less paranoid. Kids play outside unsupervised all the time. Our
friends' kids, ages 2.5,6,8, and 9 live in town, and the kids are
always out down the street on their own, or in a playground. The 2.5 yo
and 6 yo walked to the grocery story together. Unsupervised. The
environment is just better suited to that, certainly we did that stuff
as kids in the US.

[bizby40]

"Jen" > wrote in message
...
> "Rosalie B." > wrote in message
> ...
>> Myself as an example. I could perfectly well have become an MD
>> (medical doctor) had I wanted to. I was a zoology major in
>> college,
>> and I think I'm definitely smart enough to have passed medical
>> school.
>> But I would not be a good doctor. I just don't like listening to
>> people talk about their health.
>
>
> My point exactly. If you don't have the natural abilities you
> wouldn't do it.

I disagree. Some people enter college with a good idea of where their
interests lie. Others figure it out while they're there and switch
majors. Others never do figure it out and choose their major based on
a lot of other factors like what's easiest, what they got the best
grades in during high school, or where they think they can make the
most money.

A lot of 18 year olds have little or no experience with children.
They likely have very little idea of what caring for children full
time entails. Unless they have much younger siblings, they may have
never been around young children for more than a couple hours at a
time, or may never have been solely responsible for them.

In contrast, most home day care providers choose to do that after
they've had a child or children of their own. They are generally in a
much better position to decide whether or not they have the
personality and tolerance to care for other children full time. What
they are not in the position to do is to return to school full-time to
get another degree -- particularly in what is generally a low-paying
field.

It's true that some women do open home day care centers without a lot
of thought and preparation (Stephanie not being one of those), and
that some do more "babysitting" than actual caring. On the other
hand, most of those find that it's not as easy as they thought, and
get out of the business in a few years. People who have a degree may
feel a lot more pressure to stay in that field. I'm sure we've all
known a teacher or two who seemed to really dislike kids -- again, the
degree is no guarantee.

Bizby

[hedgehog42]

toto wrote:
> On 26 Nov 2006 16:25:12 -0800, "Lilaeyes" > wrote:
>
> >Please give your own opinion. I feel that any parent that is looking
> >for childcare should choose a license childcare center, because
> >those center's have experience in children. With these centers with
> >a childhood degree in college?..
>
> Even in licensed childcare centers, there is not a requirement that
> teachers have college degrees. Some teachers do have such degrees,
> but many do not and the licensing requirements differ in different
> states in the US. I don't know what the requirements are in other
> countries.
>
> >I feel comfortable placing my children in a center instead. A in home
> >daycare, you do not even need a high school diploma.

No -- but some in-home daycare providers have them. Couldn't you ask,
if it's important to you?

> > I should know
> >because I was once a in home registered daycare provider & I
> >dropped out of 11th grade. I am a mother of three beautiful children
> >& know how to raise children.

> Why then do you assume that a home daycare provider does *not* know
> how to raise children or take care of them. While education *can* be
> helpful, a warm, loving caregiver does not always need a college
> degree. My mom didn't go to college, though she did graduate high
> school and later went on to get a business degree *after* she raised
> us. My dad dropped out of school in his junior year, but he was a
> very good dad.

I agree that generalizations can be dangerous.

I did home daycare for 2 girls (ages 2 and 4 initially) for 2 years,
primarily as a favor to an aquaintance whose life had turned topsy
turvy.

Now, I'm a college graduate who had done extensive reading of parenting
books in the course of mothering -- subscribed to parenting magazines,
attended a mother's group that periodically sponsored talks by
specialists in child behavior, child nutrition etc. But I had
absolutely no early childhood, health or education classes that would
qualify me to work in a child center, and the only license I had was a
driver's license.

Even if this mom had been able to afford a topnotch childcare center
(she insisted on paying me) I really think her girls were better off
with me (or another competent, in-home caregiver) than in a center. The
mom worked irregular hours and these girls each needed an extra dollop
of individual attention, reassurance and stability -- nevery bit as
much as they needed the stories we read, the projects we made, "field
trips" we took, family dinners we ate and cookies we baked

> >But to say, opening up a family daycare is hard?.. No it isn't!.. So
> >many in home daycares are ones that want to easily make money,

Did I mention I received $25 a week? :)

> >(do not really want to work for a boss and go by their rules), or
> >want to get off of social welfare.. That is my own opinion, knowing

But there are also people who go seek employment in centers because
they figure it's a relatively quick way to get assured of a job that's
in high-demand, or a job for which they can avoid the expense of day
care for their own kid.

> >so many in home daycares get their registered license revoked due
> >to violating the regulations and rules with the department of family
> >and child care unit.
>
> OTOH, in the areas where I worked in daycare centers, often centers
> also violated the rules and lost licenses. This is not specific to
> home daycare. An unlicensed home may or may not be good care, btw.
> It's not the license that makes a center *or* a home daycare a good
> one.
>
Right. I'm not opposed to licensing or childcare centers or preschool
(my kids went to a great one 3 mornings a week). And I understand that
it's easier to believe that bad things will never happen when you have
licensed, educated workers.

Less than 2 years ago, a Milwaukee-area 2 YO died, still strapped into
her safety seat, in a day care van parked in the lot on a hot summer
day, at a licensed suburban facility that had previously had a pretty
good reputation for care. (And you can also find cases in which loving
but tragically preoccupied and distracted parents have done the very
same thing and their own kids have died (shudder).)

I understand wanting to know about your care provider, and I understand
wanting assurance that she's on top of current thinking -- like not
rubbing whisky on a teething infant's gums or laying a baby to sleep on
its stomach. But you don't need a course to teach you those things, and
by the same token, I don't think the license gives you the assurance
that this provider loves children.

If you need to be assured that your care provider has those special
courses, why would you not just ask for her qualifications during the
initial interview, rather than rule out an entire class of care based
on assumptions?

Lori G.
Milwaukee, WI

[Banty]

In article >, toto says...
>
>On 29 Nov 2006 09:13:03 -0800, Banty > wrote:
>
>>But going on qualification alone (and leaving behind this fascination with
>>having someone with a degree somewhere around...), family care wins out in my
>>view.
>>
>>Banty
>
>I don't think that this follows any more than the OP's ideas did.
>
>I think that children of different temperaments need different kinds
>of care.
>
>I think that children of different ages and stages have different
>needs.
>
>Generalizing is difficult, but ime, homecare is much better for
>children under the age of 2 (sometimes to 3). Children over 3 often
>do better in group daycare settings because the routines are easier
>for them to follow. Still this will also depend on the personality
>of the child as well.

Actually I think we're both right. :)

I'm only talking about the aspect of qualification. I absolutely agree thwat
other aspects may make one or other kind of childcare venue a better fit.

Cheers,
Banty

[Rosalie B.]

"Jen" > wrote:

>
>"Rosalie B." > wrote in message
...
>
>> 1) People who are not well suited for the job, but who have the paper
>> qualifications will be doing the jobs instead of the people who should
>> be doing them.
>
>No. They are the babysitters.

I do not understand your response. Are you saying that people who are
not well suited to be day care providers temperamentally, but who have
the paper qualifications are babysitters? Because if you mean that
people who don't have the paper qualifications are just babysitters,
then I disagree strongly with that assertion.
>
>>
>> 2) The training required will become a business and will be watered
>> down in order to get as much money as possible from people who really
>> want or need that job.
>
>No. Too many regulations, etc.
>
What do you mean by this. I can't figure out any reason that you
would make this response. Training will not become a business because
there are too many regulations??? That is absolutely not so - the
training is in response to the regulations.
>>
>> Myself as an example. I could perfectly well have become an MD
>> (medical doctor) had I wanted to. I was a zoology major in college,
>> and I think I'm definitely smart enough to have passed medical school.
>> But I would not be a good doctor. I just don't like listening to
>> people talk about their health.
>
>
>My point exactly. If you don't have the natural abilities you wouldn't do
>it.
>
Lots of people with no natural abilities are doing things just because
they can, or because they've fallen into a place where they realize
after the qualify that they really don't like it or aren't suited for
it. I didn't become a medical doctor, but it was NOT because I
realized that I didn't like to listen to people who were sick - that
insight came LONG after college.

It takes a tremendous amount of determination and energy to change
from one job/profession to another one once you've started in it.

[Ruth Baltopoulos]

Rosalie B. wrote:

<snippet>

> I do not understand your response. Are you saying that people who are
> not well suited to be day care providers temperamentally, but who have
> the paper qualifications are babysitters? Because if you mean that
> people who don't have the paper qualifications are just babysitters,
> then I disagree strongly with that assertion.

Somewhat off the beaten path of the original topic (but just
a stone's throw, really :) I mentioned in another post that
there is an initiative in MA that is making it's way through
the political machine. The main method of determining
quality (in it's infancy and without much change during
later revisions) is the requirement of a degree in Early
Care and Education (as this is a simple, measurable device,
which makes the Pols happy).

Family Child Care was lumped in with Centers and Preschools,
as it couldn't rightly be excluded (there is funding
involved), with few to no exceptions made to address it's
markedly different offering on the menu of child care. If a
FCC provider is interested in caring for children aged 2.9+
with parents who wish to take advantage of the funding (and
they would be crazy not to; where the $$ are coming from is
another almost laughable matter) then one must recreate
their program and space to emulate a mini-preschool,
effectively defeating the concept of home care, and sending
many scurrying to the nearest college to pursue a degree.

In my town peer group of perhaps 50ish FCC providers, I
would say most all have High School diplomas, a goodly
number have degrees of some sort, and quite a few have ECE
degrees, national accreditation or CDAs. Personally, I have
no interest in going back to school to acquire a degree to
do what I have been doing for 20 years, particularly where
it will not benefit my income or business, and will place a
huge burden on my already bursting at the seams life.

The ultimate effect, if and when this comes to pass, is that
we may lose many wonderful, long term providers, simply
because they are unwilling or find it objectionable to be
required to return to school to obtain a degree (and often
enough, yet another degree). Parents dedicated to having
their children with a particular provider and/or setting may
have to forgo the funding.

Perhaps it will soon be asserted that one can only be a
superior parent, or can only give a child its best start in
life, if one has an ECE degree. Maybe have it as a
requirement that children 2.9 to 5, either at home or in a
structured setting, be involved in a mandated preschool
program. What happened to learning through play and letting
children enjoy the early years without benefit of a
structured school setting? Why is this looked at aslant, in
some circles, and considered an inferior start or a
lackadaisically approach, rather than a different option?

To boil it all down, I find it unfortunate that 'the best
start' for children is being measured solely by a document,
with a preschool setting being touted as the one true way
for ages 2.9 to 5. I don't believe that homogenizing child
care offerings to meet a specific mold is a positive step.
Choices are a wonderful thing, and we should revel in
differences, rather than rubber stamp offerings IMO. Some
will say that this type of law separates the wheat from the
chaff, but in my view, we are throwing the baby out with the
bath water...
--
Ruth

[[email protected]]

I have followed this conversation with great interest, and tried not to
weigh in because there were already many very even-minded, well-versed
posters offering their opinion. But, the original post has still
nagged me throughout the this conversation. How odd that a former home
care provider who's high school drop-out who can barely write would
post such a message with a newsgroup frequented by child care
professionals. Odder still that she would place the message with
parenting groups as if she wants those members to assume that all home
providers share her lack of education and that all should avoid
providers who are just like her. ("Look at me! Stay away from people
like me!")

I owned and operated a licensed child care facility in my home here in
Texas for ten years. ("Licenced" doesn't always mean 'center'; and not
all home care facilities are 'registered'.) I had to research and
learn regulations and operate under the scrutiny of city, county, state
and federal agencies; so it shouldn't be assumed that home facilities
are fly-by-night operations run by welfare cheats who have no idea how
to run a business, seek training, provide proper care for children or
write a decent sentence.

I was dismayed that the OP used her flawed self to exemplify home child
care facilities and attempt to spread ignorance disguised as a
cautionary tale; but so many of the replies were right on the money.

cjra wrote:
> Anne Rogers wrote:
> > coming from the UK, where in home childcare is much much more strongly
> > regulated, I do find it surprising the lack of regulation here, but then
> > again, day care centres also have strict rules in the UK and the carer to
> > child ratio is much lower (1 to 3). Whilst living there, I was very lucky to
> > find excellent child minders who looked after my children in there own
> > homes, to my children, the child minder was like an extra aunt and the other
> > children were like cousins. If I were to use an in home day care provider
> > here in the US, I would initially be much more cautious due to the lack of
> > regulation, but if I chose that route I'm sure that with careful checks and
> > proceeding slowly, I could find excellent care. Going the day care route,
> > I've also had to proceed carefully, just as I would in the UK, some centres
> > have high staff turn overs and very high carer to child ratios, the rooms
> > can be small and become very crowded, I think we've found one that suits.
>
> "here" in the US varies by state. Each state makes its own regulations,
> and within the state there may be different districts. How well
> regulations are adhered to may depend upon the quality of the local
> regulators.
>
> I am pleased with the licensing procedures for in home daycares in
> Texas - at least in my area. No degree is required, but training in
> infant and child CPR and other first aid issues is required and
> references are checked regularly. Inspections are made on a fairly
> frequent basis - every few months or so. I don't think that's anything
> spectacular, I'd assume that was normal, tho perhaps it varies by area.
> I'm happy with it. My inhome provider happens to be on a military base,
> so she's also subject to their regulations.
>
> One of the advantages I've found with DD at an inhome daycare rather
> than a center is that she's with kids of multiple ages - a couple of
> school aged kids who come after school (the children of the sitter), a
> 1yo, 2yo, another older baby and occassionally a 4yr old. While that
> brings certain problems - such as exposure to school-germs, that
> interaction with older kids is *really* good for her. She's a social
> kid, and really enjoys the stimulation from the other kids. She's doing
> some things more advanced for her age because she's learning from them.
> It's kind of like having older sibs around :). In a center, she'd be in
> a room with only other babies in their cribs, soher only real
> interaction would be with the providers. I didn't realize this before
> we started, it's just a happy outcome of the situation.