preschool?? [Archive] - ParentingBanter.com

January 3rd 07, 03:04 AM

I've been avoiding thinking about this, but Micah will be old enough
for preschool in September. Any thoughts on their merits?? They are
pretty expensive where we are (the heart of Silicon Valley... where we
pay a high school girl $10/hour for babysitting!) and I seem to recall
reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
preparation -- and I'm not really that concerned with him *getting*
academic prep at that age, anyway. It seems like a play-based
curriculum would be fun for him and give me a break, esp. with #2
coming in April, but I'm not sure that's enough to justify the expense.
On the other hand, our daycare provider is getting preschool certified
(whatever that means) and we coud just put him in there -- but while
I'm really happy with the daycare (1 day/week), it's a home-based one
and I remember having a huge preschool with *much* more space/activity
possibilities/etc. when I was a kid.

Anyways, this is rambly -- but I'd like to get feedback on what people
think of the merits of preschool. I don't want to be sucked into the
Silicon Valley mentality of putting your kid in every possible activity
and scouting out Educational Opportunities for toddlers in the hopes of
getting them into Stanford. ;) But if there's something more to it
than that, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks!!

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04

Anne Rogers

January 3rd 07, 03:28 AM

>I seem to recall
> reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
> preparation -- and I'm not really that concerned with him *getting*
> academic prep at that age, anyway.

Many preschools will have some kind of statement explaining this,
essentially, they don't want to usurp what they are going to do in
kindergarten and first grade, so whilst many kids could do some of the
actitivities, they don't, instead they enhance their learning in other ways.

Nathanael goes to one, 3 sessions a week, I am extremely pleased with it,
they have a large indoor space, with plenty of time for free play, a
reasonable sized and equipped outdoor space, including one that is partially
covered, so can be used in moderate rain. They do fantastic craft
activities, sing songs, read stories etc. I was really pleased with what
they did before Christmas, they had practiced a program that included songs
and reciting a verse, I think he learnt so much, about standing in line,
following the person, being quiet when other people were performing, taking
a bow at the end etc.

This is the only activity Nathanael does, other than church classes and I
really do think it is a good thing, you couldn't achieve the same stuff in a
home day care setting, they could acquire the same knowledge (i.e. not
much!), but not the social skills. I really think this will put him in a
better position for kindergarten, in that he will hopefully handle it much
better and therefore will learn better once he is there.

Cheers

Anne

Ericka Kammerer

January 3rd 07, 03:46 AM

wrote:
> I've been avoiding thinking about this, but Micah will be old enough
> for preschool in September. Any thoughts on their merits?? They are
> pretty expensive where we are (the heart of Silicon Valley... where we
> pay a high school girl $10/hour for babysitting!) and I seem to recall
> reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
> preparation -- and I'm not really that concerned with him *getting*
> academic prep at that age, anyway. It seems like a play-based
> curriculum would be fun for him and give me a break, esp. with #2
> coming in April, but I'm not sure that's enough to justify the expense.
> On the other hand, our daycare provider is getting preschool certified
> (whatever that means) and we coud just put him in there -- but while
> I'm really happy with the daycare (1 day/week), it's a home-based one
> and I remember having a huge preschool with *much* more space/activity
> possibilities/etc. when I was a kid.
>
> Anyways, this is rambly -- but I'd like to get feedback on what people
> think of the merits of preschool. I don't want to be sucked into the
> Silicon Valley mentality of putting your kid in every possible activity
> and scouting out Educational Opportunities for toddlers in the hopes of
> getting them into Stanford. ;) But if there's something more to it
> than that, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks!!

Obviously, kids can thrive just fine without preschool,
so there's no need to take out a second mortgage to afford it.
Also, it is entirely possible for a home daycare provider to
provide a great preschool experience, depending on the
circumstances. You just have to evaluate what she can
provide and what you want out of the experience.
My three have all been to preschool. Personally,
I thought it was great for them. I could have provided
similar experiences without preschool...but it was easy
and fun with preschool. It gave me one on one time with
younger sibs. Now, it gives me time to get some work
done or get to meetings or volunteer at the older kids'
school.
Personally, I think that developmentally based
curricula are better for most kids than preschools geared
toward academic preparation. While preschool certainly
provided fun and engaging access to academic foundations,
those are some of the easier things to supply at home.
The things I really noticed were things like learning
how to function in a classroom, learning how to interact
with other kids and adults, taking more responsibility
for age-appropriate tasks, taking pride in showing me
what they did without me, etc.
My first was a bit more shy, and preschool really
seemed to help him feel comfortable interacting with others.
His preschool teachers were extremely helpful supporting
him through that process, which I think made his transition
to kindergarten much easier.
My second was more happy go lucky and didn't
need help coming out of his shell, but it did seem useful
to help him learn some appropriate boundaries in a
classroom setting. Also, he was a very active kid and
preschool was a great outlet for lots of fun, active
play.
My third is currently in preschool, and with
her I'm not sure how I'd survive without preschool!
She is a huge social butterfly. She needs lots of
time with other people, and spending a day at home
is torture to her. I certainly *could* take her
out to classes/the library/playdates/etc., but
preschool is so much easier, especially considering
my other obligations.
So, whether those sorts of things are worth
the expense of preschool to you is a personal decision
based on your own situation. I think our preschool
is quite good, so I can't really speak to the benefits
of all preschools. For me, it's a no brainer.

Best wishes,
Ericka

toto

January 3rd 07, 04:21 AM

On 2 Jan 2007 19:04:17 -0800, wrote:

>I've been avoiding thinking about this, but Micah will be old enough
>for preschool in September. Any thoughts on their merits??

I'm going back a ways, but both my children did go to preschool
primarily because it helped them find playmates. Almost everyone in
our area did preschool, so there were no kids around to play with
during the mornings if your child did not go.

Academically, kids don't *need* it, but it provides an opportunity for
messy play if you don't like doing that at home. It also provided
outdoor play every day (weather permitting), so I didn't feel like I
had to get out to the park myself.

A developmental play based preschool provides a lot of fun for kids
from 3 to 5 (before the K cutoff) and it was worth it for me to have
some time to run errands without having to take them with me. When
the older one went, it allowed one on one time with his sister. Once
she went, it allowed me time to myself.

--
Dorothy

There is no sound, no cry in all the world
that can be heard unless someone listens ..

The Outer Limits

joni

January 3rd 07, 05:47 AM

On Jan 2, 7:04 pm, wrote:
> reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
> preparation

I agree that the advantage of kids going to preschool is, as a few
others mentioned, the social aspect of it. They get to meet other kids
their own age, and have to learn to share, take turns, and act civil in
a social setting by listening to one person (the teacher and or
assistants) and taking directions from them from time to time. It
REALLY sets them ahead of the bunch for kindergarten.

> On the other hand, our daycare provider is getting preschool certified
> (whatever that means)

It means that a certain percentage of time has to be spent actually
teaching the children and not just babysitting them while they play.
Thats really a difference btwn a 'playschool' and a 'preschool'. My two
daughters went to preschool, and while I like to think they were bright
anyways for their ages, in preschool they went over numbers, the
alphabet, colors, shapes, etc etc alot that usually is a part of
kindergarten - so learning all this ahead of the pack was a real
advantage I think. They could already read by the time they started in
kindergarten (and starting to print/write) while the rest of the Kclass
were just beginning to learn their ABC's.
Also as someone mentioned, it was great place for doing alot of messy
arts n crafts that you wouldnt want to tryout at home with your
preschooler. :-) It was a really creative/artistic with music and lots
of fun - well worth the price!
Why not ask if you can sit on on a typical day (I dont think they would
mind) to check out their routines and see if its what you are looking
for?

joanne

Anne Rogers

January 3rd 07, 07:18 AM

> Thats really a difference btwn a 'playschool' and a 'preschool'. My two
> daughters went to preschool, and while I like to think they were bright
> anyways for their ages, in preschool they went over numbers, the
> alphabet, colors, shapes, etc etc alot that usually is a part of
> kindergarten - so learning all this ahead of the pack was a real
> advantage I think. They could already read by the time they started in
> kindergarten (and starting to print/write) while the rest of the Kclass
> were just beginning to learn their ABC's.

Has anyone ever shown there is any long term advantage to this? I have this
suspicion that there isn't and for comparable kids, the ability at the end
of 2nd grade will be the same regardless of ability at the beginning of
kindergarten, but I couldn't drag out anything to back this up just now. My
fear would actually be that with particular personalities of child, being
ahead at the start of kindergarten would actually lead to bordom and
disruptive behaviour. That said, you can't prevent a child from learning, I
wouldn't be surprised if my DS could read by the time he gets to
kindergarten, or print some of his letters, because he consistently asks to
write, if you give him an activity book, even one not designed for early
writing, he seeks out the letters and goes over the lines, but I feel there
is a difference between encouraging that kind of natural curiousity to
paying someone to have your kid ahead at the start of kindergarten, possibly
to the detriment of other skills they could have been learning instead of
the "academic" ones. If in was shown to be beneficial in the long term, then
I'd be all for it, but by public education starting earlier, so all children
could benefit, but as I said, I'm pretty sure that it hasn't been shown to
make a difference.

Cheers

Anne

Jeanne

January 3rd 07, 01:24 PM

Welches

January 3rd 07, 02:25 PM

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> I've been avoiding thinking about this, but Micah will be old enough
> for preschool in September. Any thoughts on their merits?? They are
> pretty expensive where we are (the heart of Silicon Valley... where we
> pay a high school girl $10/hour for babysitting!) and I seem to recall
> reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
> preparation -- and I'm not really that concerned with him *getting*
> academic prep at that age, anyway. It seems like a play-based
> curriculum would be fun for him and give me a break, esp. with #2
> coming in April, but I'm not sure that's enough to justify the expense.
> On the other hand, our daycare provider is getting preschool certified
> (whatever that means) and we coud just put him in there -- but while
> I'm really happy with the daycare (1 day/week), it's a home-based one
> and I remember having a huge preschool with *much* more space/activity
> possibilities/etc. when I was a kid.
>
> Anyways, this is rambly -- but I'd like to get feedback on what people
> think of the merits of preschool. I don't want to be sucked into the
> Silicon Valley mentality of putting your kid in every possible activity
> and scouting out Educational Opportunities for toddlers in the hopes of
> getting them into Stanford. ;) But if there's something more to it
> than that, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks!!
To me the advantage of pre-school is entirely social. Both mine went at
about 2 yrs 10 months as the earliest they could start. #1 needed the social
interaction so she could learn how to react to peers. #2 needs social
contact because she thrives on it. #1 only went 2 mornings for the first
year, then 4 mornings the second year before full time (compulsory) school.
#2 (now 3yo 2 months) I am upping to 3 mornings after Christmas. Partially
because I could do with more break (being pregnant) and partially because
she loves it and really needs the extra stimulation.
Accademically, yes, they do stuff. Learn letters and count and write their
name etc. But for #1 she learnt very little that she hadn't learnt already
at home. The number of times they met me with great excitement "Look #1's
done ***" and my initial reaction was "so, she's been doing that for a year"
(although I feigned excitement each time dutifully)
The only things I can think of that she learnt entirely through them was #1
learnt to write all the letters by watching the older ones and copying her
name. She surprised me the first time she did this, as she'd only been going
a couple of months and I didn't know they'd been doing it with her, but if
she'd been at home I suspect she would have been doing it within 6 months
anyway and there's not much advantage to writing at 3yo rather than 3.5yo.
Both of them learnt to operate a mouse at preschool, again I suspect they'd
have learnt at home in a reasonable timescale.
#2 does seem to preform better for them than for me. When I spoke to them
before Christmas there were a few things they said she could do which I
didn't know. Partually is she's a bit lazy for me and will almost always say
"I don't know" unless it's to do with numbers which she loves. She is
reading reasonably fluently when she wants to but her first reaction if she
sees a word she knows is to ask me what it says rather than reading it
herself. So pre-school may help her accademically. However I suspect the
amount of stuff they aim to do in 2 years will be less in total than what
she would learn naturally at home. But we'll wait and see on that. I'm not
really bothered about the accademic side myself; it doesn't seem to make any
difference to how good the children are by the end of reception year.
Socially it made a lot of difference to #1.
Debbie

Ericka Kammerer

January 3rd 07, 03:42 PM

joni wrote:

>> On the other hand, our daycare provider is getting preschool certified
>> (whatever that means)
>
> It means that a certain percentage of time has to be spent actually
> teaching the children and not just babysitting them while they play.

I doubt that's what it means. I suspect that it
means that she's getting NAEYC certified, or something
similar. That means that she has acquired the appropriate
education and expertise to provide high quality early
childhood education, and that she runs her daycare in
accordance with the requirements of the standard to which
she is certified. Best practices in early childhood
education would suggest that playing *is* the most important
thing young children do.

> Thats really a difference btwn a 'playschool' and a 'preschool'. My two
> daughters went to preschool, and while I like to think they were bright
> anyways for their ages, in preschool they went over numbers, the
> alphabet, colors, shapes, etc etc alot that usually is a part of
> kindergarten - so learning all this ahead of the pack was a real
> advantage I think.

I would disagree with this. While high quality early
childhood education does and should provide a great foundation
for academics, preschools that stress academic preparation don't
put kids at any kind of a sustainable advantage over those
who go to a school with a more developmentally oriented
curriculum. What is important is that the children are
exposed to a rich environment that gives them the opportunity
to develop through play. This will normally include lots
of play that encourages pre-literacy and numeracy skills,
among other things, but it shouldn't be obvious.

> They could already read by the time they started in
> kindergarten (and starting to print/write) while the rest of the Kclass
> were just beginning to learn their ABC's.

And while this works for some kids, others are
not developmentally ready for this and pushing it only
leads to frustration and a dislike of school before it
even starts. The child who is wired to read early will
read early regardless of whether reading is pushed at
preschool (given any sort of decent home environment).
The rest will in no way be behind if they enter kindergarten
not reading. They'll pick up on it quickly and easily
as the material is presented in school. Or, if they're
going to struggle with reading, it is *really* discouraging
to start flogging it so early!
My two boys had no interest in reading at the
preschool level, and started kindergarten without being
able to read or even write all their letters. At almost
12 and 9 years old, they're both very bright, both very
successful academically, and DS1 reads almost as voraciously
as I do (which is saying something). My daughter looks like
she might be a more precocious reader, but even with that
I prefer her not to be in an academically oriented
preschool. She'll pick things up quickly and easily
in school, and she'll pick up reading whenever she's
ready. Meanwhile, she's having wonderful, creative
experiences that will stand her in very good stead in
the long run.

> Why not ask if you can sit on on a typical day (I dont think they would
> mind) to check out their routines and see if its what you are looking
> for?

This is something you absolutely should do in
evaluating preschools. There's no substitute for seeing
what they actually do.
Also, if you want one take on what makes a high
quality preschool, there's a ton of information on the
NAEYC website: http://www.naeyc.org. You can see
their short guide to what to look for here:
http://www.rightchoiceforkids.org/ (click on The Guide
for Families).

Best wishes,
Ericka

Ericka Kammerer

January 3rd 07, 03:50 PM

Jeanne wrote:

> I have to say that there is pressure (at least here in the DC metro
> area) and it does start in preschool (!) to get your child as "ahead" as
> possible - reading BEFORE kindergarten, algebra by 8th grade (preferably
> 7th) but keep in mind - what's the point? So the kid can go to Stanford
> (Harvard) before s/he can drive? Sometimes it's hard to not be seduced
> by this mindset. Resist it as much as you can!

I agree that there is this pressure in some areas
(we're in NoVA, so I hear you about the pressure here), but
I don't think that the mere act of putting a child in
preschool is being pushy. That's why you have to select a
preschool carefully. Especially in areas like this, there
are preschools that are very pushy academically. It's very
easy to pick these out, and they will often be the popular
(and expensive) programs. However, you can usually *also*
find programs that aren't that way and are delightful to
work with.
Speaking from experience, you should also pay
attention to (and ask about) the parental involvement.
We have some preschools around here where the moms are
all "ladies who lunch." Being a part of those preschools
is a never-ending round of fundraisers and obligations,
and the mom clique is scary. Personally, I find that
uncomfortable--and it's even worse if you adapt, because
then you *become* one of those pushy parents!
It's funny you mention the algebra by 7th grade
thing. I have a 6th grader who is on track for that.
I've always been laid back about those sorts of things,
figuring I didn't need to be the pushy parent and that
he'd get there if he was meant to. Now, I'm being
gently scolded by his math teacher that he is more
than capable of doing this and that perhaps I should
be having higher expectations of him. Some days you
just can't win! ;-) And, I suppose I have to confess
that she's probably right. Anyway, he's where he is
because he has the ability and he's worked for it, and
he surely didn't need a high pressure preschool (or mom)
to get there! ;-) Now, if we could just up his
organizational skills, he'd be set....

Best wishes,
Ericka

Cathy Kearns

January 3rd 07, 05:44 PM

"joni" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
>
> On Jan 2, 7:04 pm, wrote:
> > reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
> > preparation
>
> I agree that the advantage of kids going to preschool is, as a few
> others mentioned, the social aspect of it. They get to meet other kids
> their own age, and have to learn to share, take turns, and act civil in
> a social setting by listening to one person (the teacher and or
> assistants) and taking directions from them from time to time. It
> REALLY sets them ahead of the bunch for kindergarten.

I live in the Silicon Valley, and in our school district the vast majority
of kids do go to some sort of preschool. And it really means they aren't
behind when they start kindergarten. They don't need really need to learn
much academically as letters and colors are covered in kindergarten. But
when they get to kindergarten they won't have to learn the structure. The
kindergarten teachers need to get a room full of five year old to listen
when required, work on projects without bothering the child next to them,
stand in line to enter the classroom, take turns, etc. The preschools are
extremely helpful in starting children on learning this structure. If you
are curious on what the kindergarten around you expects you can call your
local school. They might even have suggestions for lower cost preschools,
or even district run preschools in your neighborhood. The preschools that
are all full time large scale daycares are often the picture of what you
expect in preschool. But those are also likely to be more expensive, and
may not have half day programs for those not needing the full time daycare.
Other options include parent coop preschools that have the parents come in
and help once or twice a month. These are also good, but much less
expensive. That said, for some kids preschool isn't really an option, and
its not the end all if they don't go to preschool. They will still be fine
in kinder, it just may take them a tad longer to adjust.

[email protected]

January 3rd 07, 07:07 PM

Anne Rogers wrote:
> > Thats really a difference btwn a 'playschool' and a 'preschool'. My two
> > daughters went to preschool, and while I like to think they were bright
> > anyways for their ages, in preschool they went over numbers, the
> > alphabet, colors, shapes, etc etc alot that usually is a part of
> > kindergarten - so learning all this ahead of the pack was a real
> > advantage I think. They could already read by the time they started in
> > kindergarten (and starting to print/write) while the rest of the Kclass
> > were just beginning to learn their ABC's.
>
> Has anyone ever shown there is any long term advantage to this? I have this
> suspicion that there isn't and for comparable kids, the ability at the end
> of 2nd grade will be the same regardless of ability at the beginning of
> kindergarten, but I couldn't drag out anything to back this up just now.

I've never seen a preschool that taught anything very remarkable in the
way of reading and writing skills. I *have* seen ones that were far too
hot on getting tiny children to sit down and do worksheets and what
not. That's not what academically advanced kids tend to need from
preschool either. The play-based preschool my son went to *exposed*
kids to lots of academic stuff, but with no particular pressure to
learn any of it, and in a very free-wheeling context. I was most
impressed by some of the science activities they did, such as the life
cycle of butterflies. They did do letter of the week, but kids could
suggest words for the teacher to write on the big letter, and it could
be at any level -- so when they had "C," for instance, one kid could
say "cat" and one could say "Cretaceous period," and that was all fine.

My son could already read, and I'm not sure he ever even did most of
the writing activities, but I think he got a lot out of preschool. I
knew he was going to be one of the youngest in kindergarten, so it
helped a lot to get him used to a formal environment and getting along
in a class -- plus there are many small responsible habits that
children seem to learn much more easily in preschool than at home. I
don't think he was in class more than a few days before he started
routinely covering his face with his elbow when he coughed or sneezed,
for instance, which is the kind of habit he takes about six months to
learn from family members!

I'd look for (1) someplace your child will be happy and safe, (2)
someplace you can afford, (3) someplace that isn't too regimented or
crowded. My daughters went to a very large preschool where they got
routinely hassled by other kids, and no one appeared to notice, even
when one of my daughters stopped talking to any of the other children
(I mean, the teachers did notice that, but they couldn't figure out
why). Plus it was the kind of place where the art projects all look
just the same and the kids come home with worksheets all colored the
same way. I *much* preferred my son's little community-center
preschool, and it was cheaper, too.

--Helen

Penny Gaines

January 3rd 07, 08:31 PM

dkhedmo

January 3rd 07, 08:41 PM

I used to live in San Leandro, a couple of BART stops north of Fremont.
My son went to a wonderful preschool program through the town's park and
rec department, and it cost nothing near what I can imagine a
high-demand SV preschool must cost. So if you want to stay out of that
crush for preschool preadmission to Stanford crap, maybe look for
something through your park and rec department, whether it be a
preschool-specific program, or just a variety of age appropriate classes
2-3 days a week (music, movement, etc.). Also maybe look for a co-op
preschool, they tend to be less intense, there was a good one in Hayward
when I was there, maybe there's something similar near you? Regular
library events or classes, or weekly readings and songs at the chain
bookstores along with regular playgroups at a local park can all do much
of the same as they get from a more formalized preschool program. That
being said, I liked my son's preschool experience and teacher very much,
as the regular schedule of 2-3 days/week and classroom routine helped
transition him to 1/2 day kindergarten then full day 1st grade. In
small, manageable doses, he learned to become more self reliant, follow
classroom routines, etc. And he developed a very positive relationship
with the teacher, and continues to have a very positive feeling towards
school. Just look for alternatives, they must be there somewhere beyond
all the high tuition mini-prep schools.

Karen

wrote:
> I've been avoiding thinking about this, but Micah will be old enough
> for preschool in September. Any thoughts on their merits?? They are
> pretty expensive where we are (the heart of Silicon Valley... where we
> pay a high school girl $10/hour for babysitting!) and I seem to recall
> reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
> preparation -- and I'm not really that concerned with him *getting*
> academic prep at that age, anyway. It seems like a play-based
> curriculum would be fun for him and give me a break, esp. with #2
> coming in April, but I'm not sure that's enough to justify the expense.
> On the other hand, our daycare provider is getting preschool certified
> (whatever that means) and we coud just put him in there -- but while
> I'm really happy with the daycare (1 day/week), it's a home-based one
> and I remember having a huge preschool with *much* more space/activity
> possibilities/etc. when I was a kid.
>
> Anyways, this is rambly -- but I'd like to get feedback on what people
> think of the merits of preschool. I don't want to be sucked into the
> Silicon Valley mentality of putting your kid in every possible activity
> and scouting out Educational Opportunities for toddlers in the hopes of
> getting them into Stanford. ;) But if there's something more to it
> than that, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks!!
>
> Em
> mama to Micah, 11/14/04
>

Jeanne

January 3rd 07, 10:05 PM

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
> Jeanne wrote:
>
>> I have to say that there is pressure (at least here in the DC metro
>> area) and it does start in preschool (!) to get your child as "ahead"
>> as possible - reading BEFORE kindergarten, algebra by 8th grade
>> (preferably 7th) but keep in mind - what's the point? So the kid can
>> go to Stanford (Harvard) before s/he can drive? Sometimes it's hard
>> to not be seduced by this mindset. Resist it as much as you can!
>
> I agree that there is this pressure in some areas
> (we're in NoVA, so I hear you about the pressure here), but
> I don't think that the mere act of putting a child in
> preschool is being pushy.

I agree - I didn't mean putting a child into preschool is the equivalent
to "pushing". As I said, we put our kids into preschool and it was
mostly a social decision. There is quite a bit of "academic" material,
mainly because it's a Montessori school but I expect the first year is
just acclimating to the environment and doing "Practical Life" (e.g.,
polishing shoes, folding washcloths) and "Sensorial" (e.g., pink tower,
brown rods, pouring water) materials.

> It's funny you mention the algebra by 7th grade
> thing. I have a 6th grader who is on track for that.
> I've always been laid back about those sorts of things,
> figuring I didn't need to be the pushy parent and that
> he'd get there if he was meant to. Now, I'm being
> gently scolded by his math teacher that he is more
> than capable of doing this and that perhaps I should
> be having higher expectations of him. Some days you
> just can't win! ;-) And, I suppose I have to confess
> that she's probably right. Anyway, he's where he is
> because he has the ability and he's worked for it, and
> he surely didn't need a high pressure preschool (or mom)
> to get there! ;-)

My sister struggled with the algebra by 7th grade decision for her
daughter (she's also in FFX County). In the end, it was a social
decision - my niece's friends were in 7th grade algebra so she opted for
it as well. My niece did well in the class (A's and B's) but she had a
rather weak foundation for higher math and this didn't show until she
was taking pre-calculus or calculus in high school. She could have
taken the one-lower level math and benefited from the class.

I think you're probably doing the right thing - not push and let your
son be where he feels most comfortable.

Now, if we could just up his
> organizational skills, he'd be set....
>
Something is always sacrificed :)

Anne Rogers

January 4th 07, 12:05 AM

> It's funny you mention the algebra by 7th grade
> thing. I have a 6th grader who is on track for that.

I didn't twig when I read the original post, but now you say it, I worked
out when I was taught algebra (in school, as you know maths is my thing and
I'd self taught it earlier) and it would have been the equivalent of 6th
grade, not 100% of students would have done that, but 25-50% I'd guess and
the very latest by all but the very weakest would be 8th grade. It may be a
difference in learning style, such that the school based introduction of
algebra was very slow, in the UK maths is not divided until post 16, so I've
always been a little uncomfortable with designating the branches of maths at
quite a young age and have wondered if it actually means delaying teaching
the basics in one subject because you don't do it until next year, but going
beyond what many can cope with because you don't take it next year in
another area.

Cheers

Anne

Ericka Kammerer

January 4th 07, 02:10 AM

Anne Rogers wrote:
>> It's funny you mention the algebra by 7th grade
>> thing. I have a 6th grader who is on track for that.
>
> I didn't twig when I read the original post, but now you say it, I worked
> out when I was taught algebra (in school, as you know maths is my thing and
> I'd self taught it earlier) and it would have been the equivalent of 6th
> grade, not 100% of students would have done that, but 25-50% I'd guess and
> the very latest by all but the very weakest would be 8th grade. It may be a
> difference in learning style, such that the school based introduction of
> algebra was very slow, in the UK maths is not divided until post 16, so I've
> always been a little uncomfortable with designating the branches of maths at
> quite a young age and have wondered if it actually means delaying teaching
> the basics in one subject because you don't do it until next year, but going
> beyond what many can cope with because you don't take it next year in
> another area.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
DS has been doing pre-algebra stuff (variables, solving
equations, etc.) for some time. The "Algebra I" curriculum
goes on to polynomial functions, quadratic functions,
exponential functions, graphing, and also usually includes
some coverage of logic, probability and statistics.

For some kind of basis for comparison, here are the
"tracks" in our system:

"Average" is:
7th grade - Math 7
8th grade - Math 8
9th grade - Algebra I
10th grade - Geometry
11th grade - Algebra II
12th grade - Trig/Math analysis

(For those who are particularly challenged, they can do four
years of high school math with a two-year algebra I sequence
and a two-year geometry sequence, but they only end up with a
"standard" diploma.)

More advanced, but common is:
7th grade - Math 7
8th grade - Algebra I Honors
9th grade - Geometry Honors
10th grade - Algebra II Honors
11th grade - Trig/Math analysis
12th grade - AP Calculus AB

Advanced (probably around 25 percent or fewer):
7th grade - Math 7 Honors
8th grade - Algebra I Honors
9th grade - Geometry Honors
10th grade - Algebra II Honors
11th grade - Precalculus Honors
12th grade - AP Calculus BC

Very advanced (less than 10 percent):
7th grade - Algebra I Honors
8th grade - Geometry Honors
9th grade - Algebra II Honors
10th grade - Precalculus Honors
11th grade - AP Calculus BC
12th grade - Multi-Variable Calculus & Matrix Algebra

There are also some other math options available, like
AP Statistics or Discrete Mathematics.

At least here, there isn't any danger of delaying topics.
Goodness knows they start flogging pre-algebra skills in
(IIRC) second grade, if not earlier. I'm amazed students
don't rebel from encountering the same information in
itty bitty increments year after year after year.

Best wishes,
Ericka

Anne Rogers

January 4th 07, 04:34 AM

> At least here, there isn't any danger of delaying topics.
> Goodness knows they start flogging pre-algebra skills in
> (IIRC) second grade, if not earlier. I'm amazed students
> don't rebel from encountering the same information in
> itty bitty increments year after year after year.

I'm going to save that for reference, you do clear up a slight concern I
had, I hadn't realised algebra really meant "Algebra". There are distinct
features that I do like of the US system, that doing courses at different
times seems fully accepted and that being advanced or bright doesn't have to
be in every class. I like the lower level of flexibility in choosing courses
(in the UK in the main, you choose the subject for either 1 or 2yrs, but you
don't choose within it), it might take me a bit of time to get my head
around the breadth of courses required, as that is so unfamiliar, but it is
something the UK is making steps at moving away from. I'll have to keep an
eye on things though, so that a change to the UK education system is not too
hard, I think the hardest time for the switch would be if we end up being
here long term, but they choose to go to British Universities as unless the
breadth increases in the UK there would be a huge jump in level of material.

Anne

Anne Rogers

January 4th 07, 04:36 AM

> 7th grade - Math 7
> 8th grade - Algebra I Honors
> 9th grade - Geometry Honors
> 10th grade - Algebra II Honors
> 11th grade - Trig/Math analysis
> 12th grade - AP Calculus AB
>
just a quickie, what does it mean for a course to be "honors"

Anne

Ericka Kammerer

January 4th 07, 04:44 AM

Anne Rogers wrote:
>> 7th grade - Math 7
>> 8th grade - Algebra I Honors
>> 9th grade - Geometry Honors
>> 10th grade - Algebra II Honors
>> 11th grade - Trig/Math analysis
>> 12th grade - AP Calculus AB
>>
> just a quickie, what does it mean for a course to be "honors"

Basically, it means it's a more difficult course.
They cover more material faster and in more depth.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[email protected]

January 4th 07, 11:52 PM

Thanks for all your input!! I'm going to look more seriously into
preschools now... I hadn't really considered the factor of getting to
spend one-on-one time with the baby, and since Micah *loves* daycare, I
think that providing him with more social outputs is a good thing. :)
I'd really been balking at the cost (if we ever want to be able to buy
a house here, we have to save some serious cash), but I'll look into
the community options some of you suggested.

Em
mama to Micah, 11/14/04

Moya

January 5th 07, 04:35 PM

Mother's Day Out Programs through churches are often very affordable
and are only two or three days a week. Our boys attended and they
enjoyed it very much. The programs usually have a specific curriculum.
Our 4 year old learned alphabet, etc. They also develop valuable
social skill and you get a few free hours to do errands, etc.

Moya

On Jan 2, 9:04 pm, wrote:
> I've been avoiding thinking about this, but Micah will be old enough
> for preschool in September. Any thoughts on their merits?? They are
> pretty expensive where we are (the heart of Silicon Valley... where we
> pay a high school girl $10/hour for babysitting!) and I seem to recall
> reading that preschool doesn't actually do much in terms of academic
> preparation -- and I'm not really that concerned with him *getting*
> academic prep at that age, anyway. It seems like a play-based
> curriculum would be fun for him and give me a break, esp. with #2
> coming in April, but I'm not sure that's enough to justify the expense.
> On the other hand, our daycare provider is getting preschool certified
> (whatever that means) and we coud just put him in there -- but while
> I'm really happy with the daycare (1 day/week), it's a home-based one
> and I remember having a huge preschool with *much* more space/activity
> possibilities/etc. when I was a kid.
>
> Anyways, this is rambly -- but I'd like to get feedback on what people
> think of the merits of preschool. I don't want to be sucked into the
> Silicon Valley mentality of putting your kid in every possible activity
> and scouting out Educational Opportunities for toddlers in the hopes of
> getting them into Stanford. ;) But if there's something more to it
> than that, I'd like to hear about it. Thanks!!
>
> Em
> mama to Micah, 11/14/04

Pologirl

January 5th 07, 04:44 PM

Em, I have been investigating the preschool issue too. I do not buy at
all in to the idea that a "head start" is an advantage. If your child
is slow and needs the extra time to learn something, *and if* your
child is ready to learn that something earlier rather than later, then
early enrollment in an "academic preschool" may make sense. That is
the essence of the Head Start program, which as I understand it
benefits otherwise normal children whose home environments are
educationally deficient. For a normal child, from a functional home,
getting a head start in preschool in my opinion merely sets the child
up to be bored in elementary school. Which may create behavioral
problems, among other issues.

I would consider only a play-centered preschool for my 2yo, Monkey Boy.
We visited preschools a year ago, when Monkey Boy was a few months shy
of turning 2. (Some preschools have waiting lists.) Well, the schools
we visited were uniformly prepared to enroll him that very same week,
even though their policies say they enroll children from age 3. Huh?
They thought he was ready, socially and verbally. I was shocked,
because at that point he had been talking for only 2 months. And he is
so small for his age. I decided to play it safe and keep him at home.
Now he is a few months shy of turning 3 and...he knows all his colors,
shapes, letters, numbers, can count (not just recite) to 10, almost has
grasped the concept of double-digit numbers, has mastered the computer
keyboard and mouse (he can click and drag, mouse over, the works!), and
he is on the verge of independent reading and writing by typing. He
can type his own userid and password to login on the computer. Writing
by hand is a little farther off, as it requires finer motor control
than he has yet. And he is still small for his age, and very gentle
and sensitive and high-energy. Now what do I do? He is going to need
a very flexible and attentive school environment. If I cannot find one
(and our choices are few, due to where we live now), I may have to home
school. Oh no. All that he has learned so far has been led by him.
We merely answer his questions and show him how to do what he sees us
doing and demands to do for himself. Mostly I do that, because I am at
home with him. I need a break.

BTW, I got into Stanford but I chose not to go there. The mentality
you mention was not for me.

Ericka Kammerer

January 5th 07, 05:19 PM

Pologirl wrote:

> I would consider only a play-centered preschool for my 2yo, Monkey Boy.
> We visited preschools a year ago, when Monkey Boy was a few months shy
> of turning 2. (Some preschools have waiting lists.) Well, the schools
> we visited were uniformly prepared to enroll him that very same week,
> even though their policies say they enroll children from age 3. Huh?

That's rather shocking to me. For one thing, it's very
likely a regulatory issue (there are different rules for under 2.5yos,
and it is unlikely that a school that claims not to enroll kids
until 3yo would meet the regulatory requirements for enrolling
an under 2yo). Bad, bad, bad.

> They thought he was ready, socially and verbally. I was shocked,
> because at that point he had been talking for only 2 months. And he is
> so small for his age. I decided to play it safe and keep him at home.
> Now he is a few months shy of turning 3 and...he knows all his colors,
> shapes, letters, numbers, can count (not just recite) to 10, almost has
> grasped the concept of double-digit numbers, has mastered the computer
> keyboard and mouse (he can click and drag, mouse over, the works!), and
> he is on the verge of independent reading and writing by typing. He
> can type his own userid and password to login on the computer. Writing
> by hand is a little farther off, as it requires finer motor control
> than he has yet. And he is still small for his age, and very gentle
> and sensitive and high-energy. Now what do I do? He is going to need
> a very flexible and attentive school environment.

I'm not sure why anything you describe means that
he needs an unusual school environment? It sounds to me
like nearly any high quality early childhood environment
should be great for him. (Note that I would not consider
most obviously academic preschools to be high quality
early childhood environments.)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Pologirl

January 5th 07, 06:24 PM

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
> That's rather shocking to me. For one thing, it's very
> likely a regulatory issue (there are different rules for under 2.5yos,
> and it is unlikely that a school that claims not to enroll kids
> until 3yo would meet the regulatory requirements for enrolling
> an under 2yo). Bad, bad, bad.

Yup. Maybe the people I spoke to were overstepping their authority? I
don't know, since we did not enroll him.

> I'm not sure why anything you describe means that
> he needs an unusual school environment?

I didn't say unusual. Unfortunately, where we live now, preschools
that I would consider high quality are not usual. The offerings tend
to be either all recess-quality run-and-shout play, or a lot of work.
Worksheets, computer drills, homework. Some of the parents I know are
thrilled by the worksheets. There is one school that looks good to me,
but it is expensive. (Probably too expensive for me; I still am not
comfortable about being a SAHM, yet I cannot bring myself to put the
baby in daycare.) Locally, I gather there is a large contingent of
homeschooling families, who are opting out of all the local preschools
and primary schools too, but I'm not clued into the homeschool circles
yet. I need to start researching our options here.

Ericka Kammerer

January 5th 07, 07:15 PM

Pologirl wrote:
> Ericka Kammerer wrote:
>> That's rather shocking to me. For one thing, it's very
>> likely a regulatory issue (there are different rules for under 2.5yos,
>> and it is unlikely that a school that claims not to enroll kids
>> until 3yo would meet the regulatory requirements for enrolling
>> an under 2yo). Bad, bad, bad.
>
> Yup. Maybe the people I spoke to were overstepping their authority? I
> don't know, since we did not enroll him.
>
>
>> I'm not sure why anything you describe means that
>> he needs an unusual school environment?
>
> I didn't say unusual. Unfortunately, where we live now, preschools
> that I would consider high quality are not usual. The offerings tend
> to be either all recess-quality run-and-shout play, or a lot of work.
> Worksheets, computer drills, homework.

Oh. I wouldn't consider either of those high quality.

> Some of the parents I know are
> thrilled by the worksheets. There is one school that looks good to me,
> but it is expensive. (Probably too expensive for me; I still am not
> comfortable about being a SAHM, yet I cannot bring myself to put the
> baby in daycare.) Locally, I gather there is a large contingent of
> homeschooling families, who are opting out of all the local preschools
> and primary schools too, but I'm not clued into the homeschool circles
> yet. I need to start researching our options here.

It's a tough call. Personally, I think there's
no substitute for going and seeing for yourself. I find
that around here, word of mouth is often very unreliable,
because a lot of people have different views about what
constitutes a "good school" (even though I wouldn't say
my views are unusual--they're mostly in line with what
years of research have suggested). There's a lot of
folks who believe in aggressive academics with a lot of
homework, and think that if your kid is doing calculus
in third grade, that's a good thing. Parents brag
about the homework load all the time (I think it's
counter-productive to have lots of homework, especially
the type that is often assigned). There's also a lot
of discrimination. I hear people touting diversity all
the time; meanwhile, they're hastily moving their kids
to schools with little or no diversity so their kids
won't hang out with the "wrong kind of people" without
every actually looking at the school itself.
So, you just go and check things out and make
whatever decision you think of as best for your family.
The only caveat I'd give is that since we all want the
very best for our kids, sometimes we take that to extremes
and start thinking anything less than perfection is
unacceptable for them. The end result is that we treat
kids as fragile little beings whom the world must
accommodate in every detail. I think kids are strong and
resilient and learn to cope admirably with life, even
when it's less than perfect. So for myself, I *do*
want an education that gives them what they need to
be successful, and will go to the mat to advocate for
that, but I am willing to tolerate less than perfection
(which is a good thing, because otherwise I'd be
frustrated 99 percent of the time because the world
ain't perfect! ;-) ). As an example, it would be
unacceptable to me if there were no way for my gifted
kids to receive differentiated instruction so that
they were not bored to tears in class. On the other
hand, I am not bothered that each day's work isn't
perfectly tailored to their abilities and interests.
We can all learn to cope with being bored or overwhelmed
on occasion. I want them to have good teachers, but am
not bothered if every teacher doesn't have
the perfect combination of intelligence, charisma and
showmanship. I live with more homework than I think
is ideal or warranted, but I respect that it's not as
bad as some other places and that they're working to
make it better. We all have to learn to thrive in
sub-optimal environments. The situations to avoid
are not necessarily the ones that may not be perfectly
tailored to your child, but the ones where your child
*can't* achieve his potential or develops maladaptive
habits to survive in the system.
Personally, I'd look closely at the all-play
schools to see if they're *really* just run-screaming-
around-the-playground schools, or if maybe there *is*
a developmentally appropriate plan in there somewhere.
If there isn't, then I would argue it's a place where
your child won't have the option to achieve his potential.
I think the preschools that are all about worksheets and
homework encourage the development of maladaptive habits.
Are there any NAEYC accredited schools in your
area? (You can search on the NAEYC website.) The standards
have recently been revised, and as a result of that (and
other things) they've been behind in their auditing process,
so it's not a perfect indicator of a high quality preschool
right at this moment. However, a school that truly meets
the current NAEYC criteria is likely to be a good quality
school that doesn't represent either extreme that you've
seen. So, looking them up might be at least a starting
point for you to uncover some new options.
Also, for schools that look too expensive, do
check on the availability of scholarships. Sometimes
you'll be surprised by who is eligible. You might also
find good luck with cooperative preschools. Some are
very well run, and they're usually significantly cheaper
(in terms of money, though not time!).

Best wishes,
Ericka

Anne Rogers

January 5th 07, 08:04 PM

>> I would consider only a play-centered preschool for my 2yo, Monkey Boy.
>> We visited preschools a year ago, when Monkey Boy was a few months shy
>> of turning 2. (Some preschools have waiting lists.) Well, the schools
>> we visited were uniformly prepared to enroll him that very same week,
>> even though their policies say they enroll children from age 3. Huh?
>
> That's rather shocking to me. For one thing, it's very
> likely a regulatory issue (there are different rules for under 2.5yos,
> and it is unlikely that a school that claims not to enroll kids
> until 3yo would meet the regulatory requirements for enrolling
> an under 2yo). Bad, bad, bad.

depends on the exact rule that is being bent, but it would seem that a not
yet 2yr old in a 3+ preschool would be more than bending rules. My DS is in
a preschool class that is not the correct age for him, this state seems to
run the school year from 1st Sept so the various 3-4 classes accept children
born after 1st Sept 2002, but they have multiple cut off dates, with not all
the classes having 31st Aug 2003, some classes are reserved for the older
half of the year, including the one my DS is in I think he misses the cut
off by 2mths, but that really is just a bending of a guideline as all the
regulatory requirements just mean they have to have turned 3. I think that
his class also has some of the younger ones from the year above. For the
following year they have 4-5 class and pre-K class, I'm yet to understand
the exact differences, but it seems there is some ability to choose the
correct program for your child, they have some children who are K age in the
pre-K class as well (they also have K class). With this age child, you can't
vary what they "take" so much like you do later, so it seems to make sense
to be able to get your kid in the right class for them, which doesn't always
directly tally with age.

Anne

Ericka Kammerer

January 5th 07, 08:14 PM

Anne Rogers wrote:
>>> I would consider only a play-centered preschool for my 2yo, Monkey Boy.
>>> We visited preschools a year ago, when Monkey Boy was a few months shy
>>> of turning 2. (Some preschools have waiting lists.) Well, the schools
>>> we visited were uniformly prepared to enroll him that very same week,
>>> even though their policies say they enroll children from age 3. Huh?
>> That's rather shocking to me. For one thing, it's very
>> likely a regulatory issue (there are different rules for under 2.5yos,
>> and it is unlikely that a school that claims not to enroll kids
>> until 3yo would meet the regulatory requirements for enrolling
>> an under 2yo). Bad, bad, bad.
>
> depends on the exact rule that is being bent, but it would seem that a not
> yet 2yr old in a 3+ preschool would be more than bending rules. My DS is in
> a preschool class that is not the correct age for him, this state seems to
> run the school year from 1st Sept so the various 3-4 classes accept children
> born after 1st Sept 2002, but they have multiple cut off dates, with not all
> the classes having 31st Aug 2003, some classes are reserved for the older
> half of the year, including the one my DS is in I think he misses the cut
> off by 2mths, but that really is just a bending of a guideline as all the
> regulatory requirements just mean they have to have turned 3.

For under 2.5yos, there are rules regarding things like
needing doors to the outside from the classroom or limiting the
number of under 2.5's in the building (so that they can be
evacuated properly in case of fire) and so forth. These aren't
the sort of things you can make judgment calls about ;-)
That's *why* so many schools won't accept under 2.5s (or
some make it an even three years old just to make it easy
and give a little wiggle room).

Best wishes,
Ericka

Anne Rogers

January 5th 07, 11:34 PM

> For under 2.5yos, there are rules regarding things like
> needing doors to the outside from the classroom or limiting the
> number of under 2.5's in the building (so that they can be
> evacuated properly in case of fire) and so forth. These aren't
> the sort of things you can make judgment calls about ;-)
> That's *why* so many schools won't accept under 2.5s (or
> some make it an even three years old just to make it easy
> and give a little wiggle room).

exactly! I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that the same wouldn't
be true at other age boundaries and some flexibility there could be seen as
a mark of a good preschool.

Cheers

Anne

Moya

January 5th 07, 11:35 PM

You might consider a work from home option to help with the cost of
preschool.

Moya Wilson
MOM Team Marketing Executive
www.TheSolutionsForYou.com

On Jan 4, 5:52 pm, wrote:
> Thanks for all your input!! I'm going to look more seriously into
> preschools now... I hadn't really considered the factor of getting to
> spend one-on-one time with the baby, and since Micah *loves* daycare, I
> think that providing him with more social outputs is a good thing. :)
> I'd really been balking at the cost (if we ever want to be able to buy
> a house here, we have to save some serious cash), but I'll look into
> the community options some of you suggested.
>
> Em
> mama to Micah, 11/14/04

Ericka Kammerer

January 6th 07, 02:51 AM

Anne Rogers wrote:
>> For under 2.5yos, there are rules regarding things like
>> needing doors to the outside from the classroom or limiting the
>> number of under 2.5's in the building (so that they can be
>> evacuated properly in case of fire) and so forth. These aren't
>> the sort of things you can make judgment calls about ;-)
>> That's *why* so many schools won't accept under 2.5s (or
>> some make it an even three years old just to make it easy
>> and give a little wiggle room).
>
> exactly! I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that the same wouldn't
> be true at other age boundaries and some flexibility there could be seen as
> a mark of a good preschool.

True. Although, we find that that's one of those
slippery slope issues. If you bend cutoff dates for one
child, you very shortly have lots of other parents breathing
down your neck demanding the same for theirs :-/ Fortunately,
at least for us, I don't think we've ever encountered a
situation where it was truly necessary to play with cutoffs
to meet a child's needs. Most people just want to bend
the rules so that their child can go more days a week, but
frankly, we can't accommodate everyone going as many days
as they'd like, so we just have to settle for making the
days they're there appropriate for them ;-) Heck, with
Miss Priss the social butterfly, I jokingly asked if I
could sign her up for a 2-day *and* a 3-day program so
she could go every day ;-) (Of course she couldn't, but
it was a tempting thought...)

Best wishes,
Ericka

Beth Kevles

January 6th 07, 03:13 AM

Hi --

We enrolled both our kids in a nursery school at just 24 months of age.
(August and September birthdays ...) At age 2 the program was two
mornings/week. At age three we chose 4 mornings (the other option was 3
mornings). At age 4 we did 5 mornings plus 2 afternoons until 2pm.

The school was fabulous. (It has a reputation for being one of the best
in our metro area, but we didn't know that at the time.) There was
definitely a curriculum, but it was play-based. The kids had music with
a music teacher, art was included all over the place, there was movement
with a movement teacher. At age two the curriculum was designed to help
the kids engage in activities that would have been difficult in most
homes. These included things that were messier than many parents might
tolerate, for example. There was also a great deal of attention paid to
social and emotional development. As the kids got older certain
pre-reading and basic numeracy skills were added in, such as organizing
autumn leaves in the child's choice of sequences (ie big to little),
telling stories that the teachers wrote down, making charts of how many
kids liked green vs. red apples, etc.

There was also a consulting psychologist on staff who helped the
teachers out when a child or class was experiencing difficulties, and
who occasionally suggested that parents go in for testing about possible
developmental issues. One of our children was greatly helped by this,
which enabled us to seek help before a minor problem turned into a major
one. Other parents were able to get early interventions for conditions
like Aspergers and vision problems.

For myself, I liked having a few hours/week of time without the kids,
and time to meet regularly with other parents. I also liked that the
kids got to do activities that they definitely enjoyed, but that I did
NOT want to do at home. And they LOVED the structure and social
interaction, even at age two!

So for both our kids, nursery school was a very positive experience. It
helped them lay down a foundation of social skills that I was unprepared
to give them quite so fully myself. It let them explore the world in
ways that I would never have thought of trying.

If you think that your child's world is too narrow, a good nursery
school is probably a suitable path to expanding that world. But if you
get out a lot, do many different activities and let your child explore
in a wide variety of ways, then it may not be as important for your
family.

I hope my experience (and two cents) is of interest,
--Beth Kevles

http://web.mit.edu/kevles/www/nomilk.html -- a page for the milk-allergic
Disclaimer: Nothing in this message should be construed as medical
advice. Please consult with your own medical practicioner.

NOTE: No email is read at my MIT address. Use the AOL one if you would
like me to reply.

Anne Rogers

January 6th 07, 07:08 PM

> True. Although, we find that that's one of those
> slippery slope issues. If you bend cutoff dates for one
> child, you very shortly have lots of other parents breathing
> down your neck demanding the same for theirs :-/ Fortunately,
> at least for us, I don't think we've ever encountered a
> situation where it was truly necessary to play with cutoffs
> to meet a child's needs. Most people just want to bend
> the rules so that their child can go more days a week, but
> frankly, we can't accommodate everyone going as many days
> as they'd like, so we just have to settle for making the
> days they're there appropriate for them ;-) Heck, with
> Miss Priss the social butterfly, I jokingly asked if I
> could sign her up for a 2-day *and* a 3-day program so
> she could go every day ;-) (Of course she couldn't, but
> it was a tempting thought...)

I see what you mean, in this instance, it wasn't a case of meeting
Nathanael's needs, more that as we signed up late due to the move, that was
the only class that had space. But I am glad it has worked out that way as
though he's not advanced in stuff like reading, identifying letters, the
academic stuff, he is fairly advance socially and has clearer speech than
many children his age. At the gym, he goes to the 3 yr olds room and is
often one of the oldest and it's fine for the much looser structure they
have there, but it wouldn't be fine for preschool (it's actually very
structured for what you'd expect at a gym and they do have a preschool
program for 4+). At church, for Sunday school, his year group is split in
half, making him one of the older ones for the 2nd half of the year and it's
fine for Sunday's, but again, not for preschool, and he ends up talking to
the teachers as the other children don't seem to talk back, there is a
Wednesday night group where all that school year are together and the
children he is pally with have all turned 4. I'm just crossing my fingers
that for next year the class that is most convenient timewise has the right
age cut off, it will be frustrating if it isn't as it seems that at 4+ he
shouldn't just be penalised because he happens to have a May birthday!

Cheers

Anne