Girl bullying? When does it start? What to do?

[Jeanne]

Has anyone dealt with this? It seems to be appearing in DD's class but
I'm not sure. DD is in an upper elementary class with 4th, 5th and 6th
graders. She's one of only two 4th grade girls, so many of her friends
are 5th graders. One 5th grade girl seems to be a budding Queen Bee.
There was an incident last week involving DD, but the teacher addressed
the class after she found DD crying. I'm satisfied, for now, to leave
it at that.

I am a bit perturbed because I found out about the incident through a
friend's mother. DD didn't tell me about any upsetting events at school
(enough to make her cry) last week. I feel that DD fairly handled it
well - she told the teacher what happened and later reasoned through the
incident with another friend (the one whose mom informed me).

I guess I'm wondering where MY boundaries are. I can't just go charging
in and confronting those who I think are Queen Bees (they may not be)
but I also don't want to just ignore these events in my daughter's life.

Thanks,
Jeanne

[Ericka Kammerer]

Jeanne wrote:
> Has anyone dealt with this? It seems to be appearing in DD's class but
> I'm not sure. DD is in an upper elementary class with 4th, 5th and 6th
> graders. She's one of only two 4th grade girls, so many of her friends
> are 5th graders. One 5th grade girl seems to be a budding Queen Bee.
> There was an incident last week involving DD, but the teacher addressed
> the class after she found DD crying. I'm satisfied, for now, to leave
> it at that.
>
> I am a bit perturbed because I found out about the incident through a
> friend's mother. DD didn't tell me about any upsetting events at school
> (enough to make her cry) last week. I feel that DD fairly handled it
> well - she told the teacher what happened and later reasoned through the
> incident with another friend (the one whose mom informed me).
>
> I guess I'm wondering where MY boundaries are. I can't just go charging
> in and confronting those who I think are Queen Bees (they may not be)
> but I also don't want to just ignore these events in my daughter's life.

I'm wondering if your daughter knows that your
first instinct is to rush out and intervene, and that's
why she didn't tell you (for fear that you'd do that and
embarrass her). I certainly understand wanting to do that,
but I think by this time you have to be very cautious about
when and how you intervene. It's still definitely appropriate
to do so in some situations, but you have to tread carefully.
Perhaps it might be worth it to talk to your daughter and
reassure her that you would love for her to discuss these
things with you, but that you will not go charging in willy
nilly if she tells you about problems at school. You'll
discuss it and make a decision together about the best
course of action, if any action is necessary.

Best wishes,
Ericka

[dkhedmo]

Ericka Kammerer wrote:
> Jeanne wrote:
>> Has anyone dealt with this? It seems to be appearing in DD's class
>> but I'm not sure. DD is in an upper elementary class with 4th, 5th
>> and 6th graders. She's one of only two 4th grade girls, so many of her
>> friends are 5th graders. One 5th grade girl seems to be a budding
>> Queen Bee. There was an incident last week involving DD, but the
>> teacher addressed the class after she found DD crying. I'm satisfied,
>> for now, to leave it at that.
>>
>> I am a bit perturbed because I found out about the incident through a
>> friend's mother. DD didn't tell me about any upsetting events at
>> school (enough to make her cry) last week. I feel that DD fairly
>> handled it well - she told the teacher what happened and later
>> reasoned through the incident with another friend (the one whose mom
>> informed me).
>>
>> I guess I'm wondering where MY boundaries are. I can't just go
>> charging in and confronting those who I think are Queen Bees (they may
>> not be) but I also don't want to just ignore these events in my
>> daughter's life.
>
> I'm wondering if your daughter knows that your
> first instinct is to rush out and intervene, and that's
> why she didn't tell you (for fear that you'd do that and
> embarrass her). I certainly understand wanting to do that,
> but I think by this time you have to be very cautious about
> when and how you intervene. It's still definitely appropriate
> to do so in some situations, but you have to tread carefully.
> Perhaps it might be worth it to talk to your daughter and
> reassure her that you would love for her to discuss these
> things with you, but that you will not go charging in willy
> nilly if she tells you about problems at school. You'll
> discuss it and make a decision together about the best
> course of action, if any action is necessary.
>
> Best wishes,
> Ericka

My first grade son has experienced some problems on the bus, both last
year and this year. He didn't always tell me right away, and even when
he did, it may have taken the course of an afternoon or a day or two to
get the full story. I try very hard to stay calm, matter-of-fact, and to
ask him how he wants the situation handled, maybe giving him a few
options to choose from, some keeping him in charge of the situation,
some having me approach the teacher, principal, bus driver etc. Then I
try to remember to touch base with him on the issue once in a while;
again, very matter-of-fact, part of the usual conversation about school.
The thing to watch out for though, is to make sure that any changes in
routines or seat assignments and such penalize the perpetrator and not
your child - why should the wronged child have to change seats away from
their other friends, just to get away from a bully? It's the bully who
should have to move to a more supervised spot, for example.

In your particular case, it seems the current situation has been
handled, but I would recommend a brief message to the teacher letting
her know that you have only just become aware of the incident, through
another parent, and that you appreciate her handling of it and to keep
you updated on any further incidents. Friendly and appreciative, but
with a little undertone of wishing you had been contacted directly and
would like to be in the future.


Karen

[HCN]

"Jeanne" > wrote in message
. ..
> Has anyone dealt with this?

Fortunately, no... My daughter has two big brothers, and she takes guff from
NO one!

Actually, I worried that she might become a bully, but so far (I've been
told) that has not happened. Basically, she does not care what anyone
thinks. For a while her motto in 5th grade was "You laugh at me because I'm
different, I pity you because you are all the same!"


It seems to be appearing in DD's class but
> I'm not sure. DD is in an upper elementary class with 4th, 5th and 6th
> graders. She's one of only two 4th grade girls, so many of her friends are
> 5th graders. One 5th grade girl seems to be a budding Queen Bee. There
> was an incident last week involving DD, but the teacher addressed the
> class after she found DD crying. I'm satisfied, for now, to leave it at
> that.

Sometimes it can happen that soon, or sooner.

>
> I am a bit perturbed because I found out about the incident through a
> friend's mother. DD didn't tell me about any upsetting events at school
> (enough to make her cry) last week. I feel that DD fairly handled it
> well - she told the teacher what happened and later reasoned through the
> incident with another friend (the one whose mom informed me).

Actually, that might be a good way to find out information. Make sure you
keep all sorts of avenues of communication open. The parent network can be
very powerful. It is quite normal that your daughter would rather confide
in someone other than a parent.

I would also caution you that information can be different depending on the
source. Some parents have blinders, others have agendas.

>
> I guess I'm wondering where MY boundaries are. I can't just go charging
> in and confronting those who I think are Queen Bees (they may not be) but
> I also don't want to just ignore these events in my daughter's life.

There is some good books now about girl bullying, that actually address
those very questions... like:
Odd Girl Out:
http://www.amazon.com/Odd-Girl-Out-Culture-Aggression/dp/0156027348/
and Queen Bees and Wannabees:
http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Bees-Wannabees-Rosalind-Wiseman/dp/0749924373/
(by the way, I checked this out of the library as a book-on-tape to listen
to while I did some puttering about, it was a very amusing reading!).

Oh, and about those parents with agendas... there one for them, Queen Bee
Moms and Kingpin Dads:
http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Moms-Kingpin-Dads-Make/dp/1400083001

By the way, there have been movies made based on both of the first two
books... Skip the horrible "Odd Girl Out", but do rent and watch with your
daughter the move "Mean Girls" based on the Queen Bee book:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0377092/ (I kind of related to it because I was
an Army brat, and often the "new kid" in the school... which was normal for
everyone else on Army bases, but dreadful when we lived in civilian towns!
I have lots of interesting things to say about the little berg known as
Weston, MO, which was when I lived there the largest tobacco growing area
West of the Mississippi, the home of Missouri's largest LEGAL distillary and
the town that time forgot... and it should be forgotten!).

Good luck to you and your daughter.



>
> Thanks,
> Jeanne
>

[Jeanne]

HCN wrote:
> "Jeanne" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Has anyone dealt with this?
>
> Fortunately, no... My daughter has two big brothers, and she takes guff from
> NO one!
>
> Actually, I worried that she might become a bully, but so far (I've been
> told) that has not happened. Basically, she does not care what anyone
> thinks. For a while her motto in 5th grade was "You laugh at me because I'm
> different, I pity you because you are all the same!"
>

My daughter doesn't follow trends or care about "being popular" (which
apparently is a bad thing in her school) but she is sensitive to what
people say directly to her face.

>
> It seems to be appearing in DD's class but
>> I'm not sure. DD is in an upper elementary class with 4th, 5th and 6th
>> graders. She's one of only two 4th grade girls, so many of her friends are
>> 5th graders. One 5th grade girl seems to be a budding Queen Bee. There
>> was an incident last week involving DD, but the teacher addressed the
>> class after she found DD crying. I'm satisfied, for now, to leave it at
>> that.
>
> Sometimes it can happen that soon, or sooner.
>
>> I am a bit perturbed because I found out about the incident through a
>> friend's mother. DD didn't tell me about any upsetting events at school
>> (enough to make her cry) last week. I feel that DD fairly handled it
>> well - she told the teacher what happened and later reasoned through the
>> incident with another friend (the one whose mom informed me).
>
> Actually, that might be a good way to find out information. Make sure you
> keep all sorts of avenues of communication open. The parent network can be
> very powerful.

I usually hear the most interesting things about DD's day from other
children or parents but I guess I thought I would hear about something
like this from her.

It is quite normal that your daughter would rather confide
> in someone other than a parent.
>

I think that's what I *wanted* to hear - that DD may be more likely to
talk to someone other than a parent about this.

> I would also caution you that information can be different depending on the
> source. Some parents have blinders, others have agendas.
>

It was difficult to piece together the whole incident and I'm not sure I
have. The mom is a non-native English speaker so 1) she may have
emphasized points that she felt important but my daughter does not and
2) while I think her English is fine there may be some misunderstanding
due to a language barrier. Also, her daughter has had some social
issues at school.

>
> Oh, and about those parents with agendas... there one for them, Queen Bee
> Moms and Kingpin Dads:
> http://www.amazon.com/Queen-Moms-Kingpin-Dads-Make/dp/1400083001
>

Thanks for the reference.

The budding Bee in this case is known to us - although never friends,
she and DD have known each other since DD was about 4, maybe 3 and they
have played together at school and attended several of the same birthday
parties. As a matter of fact, because this is a Montessori school
almost all the children have known each other since they were 3 or 4.
From what I know, the parents are good people - I have a nodding
acquaintance with the mother.