Santa is mad

My 4 1/2 year old daughter is testing the limits of my sanity these
last few days before Christmas. I am so mad I wish I could just keep
her presents in storage.

Her grandparents have been here for a week. I was really happy to have
them come to help us out with our Christmas preparations and allow my
husband and I to get away for some "downtime" together. It hasn't been
possible because our daughter has been very resistant to their
authority and we can't leave her alone with them (she locks herself in
her bedroom, does destructive things, throws tantrums, hits and spits,
has locked them outside the house, etc.). She doesn't do that kind of
stuff with me and only occassionally defies my husband but my inlaws
(the grandparents I mentioned) are lightweights and do not know how to
handle her. We have tried to explain to them what works but it is also
shocking to me that our daughter gives herself permission to be this
disrespectful with them.

She is not at all this way at school or with my parents - or any other
adults. I am really mad at her - I am mad at my inlaws too for being
such pushovers, but I am more mad at my daughter because at least they
are trying to be nice. I already threatened to talk to Santa Claus
about her behavior but that only gets a moment's pause from her then
she acts crazy again.

I told her Santa brings presents for children who behave. Christmas
complicates things because it is only one day of the year. Normally if
she was being this out of control we would cancel a special event or
planned activity until she could earn it with good behavior. What
lesson is she going to learn when she acts that way and still gets a
good sized haul of presents?

I'm going to preface my reply by stating that we don't celebrate
Christmas and we don't "do" Santa in any way, so please understand
that my thoughts come from this context of a lack of experience with
this particular issue.

In article ,
Maxixe wrote:
My 4 1/2 year old daughter is testing the limits of my sanity these
last few days before Christmas. I am so mad I wish I could just keep
her presents in storage.

Keep in mind that lots of kids that age have a hard time holding
themselves together at this time of year. It's very exciting for
them!

snip description of poor behavior

I told her Santa brings presents for children who behave. Christmas
complicates things because it is only one day of the year.

Well, actually I think it's Santa, or more specifically that idea that
Santa brings presents for "children who behave", that complicates things.

Normally if
she was being this out of control we would cancel a special event or
planned activity until she could earn it with good behavior.


You "could" do that in this case, if you so choose. "Santa" might leave
a note saying that her behavior has been poor recently but he'll give her
another chance and come back with her presents next week if her behavior
improves. But (and this is where you have to consider my inexperinece
with the Santa issue) I'm not sure it's a great idea to push off any more
of the "good behavior assurance" onto Santa (that's really your job, as
her parents, and Santa makes a kind of crude tool for this, as you've
noticed by your current dilemma), and in any case I'm not sure whether the
emotional baggage attached to Christmas and Santa make this too cruel to
consider in your daughter's case.

What
lesson is she going to learn when she acts that way and still gets a
good sized haul of presents?

I think this depends on how you cast it. Perhaps she learns that Santa
brings gifts for young children who generally behave all year but fall
apart as the excitement of the season takes hold. Or perhaps you change
your tune about Santa somewhat and teach her that Santa brings presents
to help celebrate the joy of Jesus' birth and downplay the "only for
well-behaved kids" aspect.

Also, I don't know how much of her "haul" comes from Santa versus
yourselves and/or other relatives, but if much of it comes from others,
then the "naughty or nice" thing doesn't come into play as much.
Presumably you and her other relatives buy her gifts because you love
her and want to help her celebrate this joyous holiday, and that is
separate from her behavior at this moment in time.

I think I'd rather see you as her parents addressing the behavior in
a "Christmas-independent" way, and downplay the receipt of gifts from
Santa as being "rewards for good behavior" but more as part of an
important celebration you are participating in.

Good luck!!

--Robyn (mommy to Ryan 9/93 and Matthew 6/96 and Evan 3/01)

Maxixe writes:
I told her Santa brings presents for children who behave. Christmas
complicates things because it is only one day of the year.

I don't think using the promise/threat of Santa Claus as a
reward/punishment is a very good idea. I know it's part of the culture
("Santa knows if you've been naughty or nice"), but that doesn't mean it
actually works well. It's too far removed in time and space from the
behavior you're trying to change. And it's too large an event---suppose
you give your child 4 presents, instead of the 6 that would have
resulted from "good" behavior; do you think that will have much effect?

Feedback or consequences that are more immediate will help a lot more.
I'd drop the idea of presents at Christmas as a reward or punishment,
entirely; that way you won't feel conflicted about them and you can just
enjoy the holiday. Besides, once the child *has* the presents, then you
can take away access to them as a consequence of bad behavior. I won't
say that will magically solve your problems, but it will do more than
hiding the presents, and never giving any at all, ever would.

David desJardins

Her grandparents have been here for a week. I was really happy to have
them come to help us out with our Christmas preparations and allow my
husband and I to get away for some "downtime" together. It hasn't been
possible because our daughter has been very resistant to their
authority and we can't leave her alone with them (she locks herself in
her bedroom, does destructive things, throws tantrums, hits and spits,
has locked them outside the house, etc.). She doesn't do that kind of
stuff with me and only occassionally defies my husband but my inlaws
(the grandparents I mentioned) are lightweights and do not know how to
handle her. We have tried to explain to them what works but it is also
shocking to me that our daughter gives herself permission to be this
disrespectful with them.

She is not at all this way at school or with my parents - or any other
adults.

I realize this reply is late (let us know how you resolved the Santa thing),
but I had a reaction to your post that I felt compelled to add. Since you
mention your daughter acts this way around no one else, have you considered
that there may be some basis for her reactions? I think when a child acts that
out of character around only selected, specific adults it's worth looking in to
the reason. It could be something as simple as a misunderstanding that you
might help resolve or something as serious as physical or psychological abuse.

I am not making accusations here -- I am just suggesting that it is worthwhile
to sit down with her when she is not angry and charged up over this and ask her
why *she* thinks she is behaving this way. Make sure you tell her that you are
creating a time and place where she can say anything she wants to say about
them and assure her that she is safe and that you will keep things private
between just you and her.

My son and his cousins all have had difficulties with my mom from time to time;
they tend to misunderstand her and she can come off very judgemental; as adults
we are aware of this and let it roll off our backs but the kids take everything
she says to heart. Once we adults figured this out we were able to talk
individually to the kids about motivations, etc -- and also to make some
suggestions to the kids. It ended up helping quite a bit.

Hope this helps, and please know I am not trying to make serious accusations --
I'm more commenting on the overall phenomenon of unusual behavior of children
to specific adults, and the need for us all to try to get to the bottom of
those situations when they occur.

-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 11

My son and his cousins all have had difficulties with my mom from time to
time;
they tend to misunderstand her and she can come off very judgemental; as
adults
we are aware of this and let it roll off our backs but the kids take
everything
she says to heart. Once we adults figured this out we were able to talk
individually to the kids about motivations, etc -- and also to make some
suggestions to the kids.

Sorry, that should read "suggestions to my mom..."

-Dawn

Iowacookiemom wrote:


I realize this reply is late (let us know how you resolved the Santa thing),
but I had a reaction to your post that I felt compelled to add. Since you
mention your daughter acts this way around no one else, have you considered
that there may be some basis for her reactions? I think when a child acts
that out of character around only selected, specific adults it's worth looking
in
to the reason.

I'm not trying to speak to the original poster's situation at all here, but
there's another side of what you seem to be saying I think one needs to keep
aware of. Some kids let go only with the adults they feel the most safe around.
With my daughter, when she was younger, she'd somehow just barely keep herself
pulled together during a long, hard, overstimulating day at school only to
totally melt down as soon as her tailfeathers hit the seat of my car when I
came to pick her up from afterschool care. I wasn't the one the problem; I was
the person she felt safe enough to totally lose it with. If I'd agonized over
what I was doing wrong to set her off, I would have driven myself crazy...*and*
my anguish would have been misplaced. Instead, I gently tried to dislodge from
her what the true issue was that was bothering her. That usually worked.

YMMV.

beeswing,
who loves The Kid yet
doesn't miss the melt downs one bit

I am also wondering how the arrival of the grandparents may
have disrupted normal household schedules: those times used
to be somewhat difficult for my daughter when she was very
small. I found (and still find, to some extent) that the
arrival of grandparents, who were used to eating at specific
times and had established routines that they understandably
wanted to follow, sometimes meant that even with our best
efforts to meet everyone's needs, our young daughter was the
one who showed the stress of small changes the earliest ...
Just another (late) thought.

Jayne

Jayne wrote:

I am also wondering how the arrival of the grandparents may
have disrupted normal household schedules: those times used
to be somewhat difficult for my daughter when she was very
small. I found (and still find, to some extent) that the
arrival of grandparents, who were used to eating at specific
times and had established routines that they understandably
wanted to follow, sometimes meant that even with our best
efforts to meet everyone's needs, our young daughter was the
one who showed the stress of small changes the earliest ...
Just another (late) thought.

Here's what my experience continues to be. My daughter is an only child. She
can get really wound up with adults other than my husband and I around. She
thrives on the attention. The trouble is getting her to wind down again....

beeswing

I probably should have mentioned that I think part of the reason
(other than the way my in-laws handle the situation - by constantly
appeasing her rather than standing their ground) is that they don't
speak English well. For some reason she doesn't treat them as fully
human because they speak another language and thinks that she can
disrespect them. They know enough English to get their message across
in most cases but she still says they are "weird" or pretends she
can't understand them. I talk to her everytime I see her act up about
the situation and ask her to help them out. I think she feels it puts
her in a more powerful position because she can feign
misunderstanding. The day they left she cried for a long time because
she said she missed them and wanted them to come back! We asked her
"then why didn't you be nice when they were here?!" and she said "If
they come back I WILL be nice this time!"

She is a challenge to parent, its true, but she usually complies when
she knows that there are consequences to her actions so most of us -
my husband and I, her teachers and her babysitter know how to handle
her at least most of the time. Christmas went on as usual. I was still
ticked off about the behavior leading up to it. After her grandparents
left she calmed down. Starting with the New Year I resolved to be
tougher about making her earn special outings and events. So far, I
haven't gained a lot of ground, but I see some instances where she is
controlling her tantrums or the behavior we find unacceptable (failure
to comply with requests or rude comments mostly) so that she can earn
the opportunity to see a movie or get away with me for some special
time alone (I have an infant son too).




Her grandparents have been here for a week. I was really happy to have
them come to help us out with our Christmas preparations and allow my
husband and I to get away for some "downtime" together. It hasn't been
possible because our daughter has been very resistant to their
authority and we can't leave her alone with them (she locks herself in
her bedroom, does destructive things, throws tantrums, hits and spits,
has locked them outside the house, etc.). She doesn't do that kind of
stuff with me and only occassionally defies my husband but my inlaws
(the grandparents I mentioned) are lightweights and do not know how to
handle her. We have tried to explain to them what works but it is also
shocking to me that our daughter gives herself permission to be this
disrespectful with them.

She is not at all this way at school or with my parents - or any other
adults.

I realize this reply is late (let us know how you resolved the Santa thing),
but I had a reaction to your post that I felt compelled to add. Since you
mention your daughter acts this way around no one else, have you considered
that there may be some basis for her reactions? I think when a child acts that
out of character around only selected, specific adults it's worth looking in to
the reason. It could be something as simple as a misunderstanding that you
might help resolve or something as serious as physical or psychological abuse.


-Dawn
Mom to Henry, 11

"Maxixe" wrote in message
m...
My 4 1/2 year old daughter is testing the limits of my sanity these
last few days before Christmas. I am so mad I wish I could just keep
her presents in storage.

Her grandparents have been here for a week. I was really happy to have
them come to help us out with our Christmas preparations and allow my
husband and I to get away for some "downtime" together. It hasn't been
possible because our daughter has been very resistant to their
authority and we can't leave her alone with them (she locks herself in
her bedroom, does destructive things, throws tantrums, hits and spits,
has locked them outside the house, etc.). She doesn't do that kind of
stuff with me and only occassionally defies my husband but my inlaws
(the grandparents I mentioned) are lightweights and do not know how to
handle her.

I think both the fact that your inlaws are lightweights and your reaction to
this has something to do with this. I think you need to work with your
inlaws about limits and you need to understand how your reaction to your
inlaws is affecting your daughter.

What I would suggest you do is that whenever she misbehaves, you just give
her a time out. Pick her up, put her in her room, tell her she has to stay
there for at least 5 minutes and after that, she may come out when she ready
to behave properly. And when she misbehaves, be very matter-of-fact. "We
don't like tantrums. When you are done, you may come out after the time out
is over." then pick her up and put her in her room. If she locks herself in
the room, when she comes out, explain to her that is not nice, and give her
a time out. When she hits or spits, stop it, and give her the time out.

The keys a

1) Make it clear to her what is not appropriate behavior.
2) Make it clear to her that is not tolerated.
3) Immediately remove her from the situation and give her a time out if it
is warranted.
4) Reward her for appropriate behavior.
5) Make sure that she doesn't recieve attention for her inappropriate
behavior.

(..)

She is not at all this way at school or with my parents - or any other
adults.

This really makes me wonder what is going on between your in-laws and your
daughter. It may be that she just isn't used to visitors who stay at your
house or the way your inlaws interact with her (I am not suggesting that
your in-laws are in any way inappropriate, just different than your parents
and perhaps your daugther hasn't learned to deal with this yet).

(...)

Jeff